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Well, that pretty much answers that, hahaha.
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On July 28 2010 15:47 Arrian wrote:
What of the large number of useless units that never or rarely see competitive play? ... Brood War did not use bonus damage on certain units to balance its unit composition issues, so why does Starcraft 2?
Are you serious with this? There's clearly no terrible units in Starcraft 2 and even the most underused units in starcraft 1 had their place. And sure, SC1's damage system reduces damage that some units take instead of increases it, but it's the exact same concept. How are these legitimate complaints at all?
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On July 29 2010 07:08 Aduromors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 15:47 Arrian wrote:
What of the large number of useless units that never or rarely see competitive play? ... Brood War did not use bonus damage on certain units to balance its unit composition issues, so why does Starcraft 2? Are you serious with this? There's clearly no terrible units in Starcraft 2 and even the most underused units in starcraft 1 had their place. And sure, SC1's damage system reduces damage that some units take instead of increases it, but it's the exact the same concept. How are these legitimate complaints at all?
coughmothershipcough
coughscoutcough
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This was very well written and I really enjoyed it thank you! (:
oh and Go boxer haha love him.
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On July 29 2010 05:20 Qwerty. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 00:25 lisherwin wrote:On July 28 2010 23:56 Arrian wrote:On July 28 2010 23:46 lisherwin wrote:we are bidding a fond farewell to Brood War, at least as the uncontested ruler of e-Sports I guess I just don't see why we're necessarily bidding a good-bye to BW as the uncontested ruler of e-Sports. SC2 has its merits, but I think we're far far from passing the throne to SC2 as the uncontested ruler of e-Sports. It's a sensitive time for the SC1-SC2 divide we cannot say much about SC2 as a e-Sport game comparative to SC1 until we wait longer to see how the game progresses. I mean hell, its just been a day since SC2's release (after a volatile couple months of beta). Two big reasons: because it's new, and because it's popular. Even if the essence of the game isn't as good as BW's, the game has more popularity around the world right now than BW does, and that means that money and sponsorships will follow. Advertisers and sponsors don't care about how good a game is, they just care if it brings eyeballs. And SC2 will certainly bring eyeballs. Sure, SC2 is drawing larger audiences than most non-SC RTS games, but that's a consequence of the release of any RTS that bears the name "Starcraft X". The clamor of any SC2 progaming tournament held so far, as I've seen, doesn't come close to the uproar of the gathering of fans for something like, say, the Korean Air OSLs. Even in SC1's supposedly weakest stage of its lifetime, the fans are still crazier for the Korean progamers than they are for the most dominant SC2 players we have now. But please, throwing money into a legacy-dependent entrepreneurial venture, like SC2, is one thing and an everlasting, enjoyable game to watch and play is another. The latter is what produces a permanent and dominant e-Sports game. You're comparing community-run tournaments in a game's beta with largely foreign players participating, to a ten-year esport's biggest tournament sponsored by a national airline? Golly, I can't argue with that logic.
You prove my point exactly. SC2 isn't even close to being called the uncontested e-Sports game in the world at the moment. And we shouldn't treat it as such. Until we see as much zeal for SC2 as the players had for SC1 and its players, then can we call it the "uncontested game of e-Sports". If not, SC2 is no different than any other typical RTS in its fledgling stage. Thank you. The fact that SC2 is not heralding the SC1's departure as the "uncontested game of e-Sports" is really not that hard to understand.
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On July 28 2010 16:51 Metaspace wrote:
SC2 is not here to replace SCBW, because it sucks.
Every notable player I know says it's sure nice to play for a few weeks, but otherwise too shallow.
Blizzard fucked it up, right from the concept phase.
What a waste.
i like sc2 and ill buy it cause i wanna see the campaigns, history, etc (1 player stuff) but im not to happy with the online part hopping that when i get it and try it ill change my mind any way ill know by then. im still waitting the original version i dont want the LA version.
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Wow, incredible article, very well done :D.
As for my thoughts on the game thus far, I do think it is worth noting that the campaign (which is INCREDIBLE and totally unique to any game I've ever played) sucked up A LOT of time and effort. This means there will (hopefully) be people working on player relations and other player requests instead of the campaign..at least for the time being.
Here's to another successful decade of starcraft gaming/esports 
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Haha, SC2 is better than 40,000 B.C. for one. Sole. Reason.
FACEBOOK!
...Ok, maybe that makes it worse.
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The sucess of SC2 as an e-sport hinges mainly on how fast (or even if) South Korea (or the western world) transitions from Broodwar or develops an independent wings of liberty scene. That being said, it may take quite some time for Starcraft's biggest proponent, South Korea, to accept SC2 as a proper form of competition. Will they switch out of Starcraft? Will they transition to some other, more traditional and technical game with competitive capabilities?
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really really interesting read. I totaly agree with you. The community need new blood and starcraft WoL will help about that
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That's a good write up, but where's the emphasis on the expansions and the "Trilogy"? That should have been the big final push of the article I think... Don't you trust that the game will be dramatically different by time the Trilogy is done?
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good work! we are moving on to starcraft 3 before the world ends!!
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On July 29 2010 01:55 Saracen wrote:
I like SC2 because it's so much smoother. My drones don't glitch out when I try to pull them out of the mineral line or when they try to build hatcheries. I actually like MBS and infinite select and automine because I can focus my attention on cutesy stuff that I wasn't able to do in BW. That said, SC2 still doesn't (yet) have the strategic depth of BW, but I don't think I'll be going back as long as the SC2 competitive scene remains alive.
Sometimes I'm too nostalgic for my own good! It definitely is smoother, mechanically it's not even close to the same bracket as BW. I just hope it's not TOO smooth, because as we all know, those unintentional glitches and bugs is what shifted and evolved the meta game of BW to levels over 9000. 
@ Arrian - In regards to everyone being critical about the "BW" sentence, you have to agree, you could have conveyed the same message across without(unintentionally) trampling BW.I feel it's more of a welcoming another member to the family situation, he's the up and coming Flash, he has all our attention but only time will tell if he can step up to the plate of his older brother.
We'll see how far SC2 takes off after the hype dies down. Personally took me about 2 weeks before I got tired of it. I'm inclined to believe that the quality of the game will be the driving force behind the RTS scene and not just what's new and shinier. Still love your article(minus bidding farewell, I dream of the everyone lives together holding hands in harmony outcome) really, well put Arrian .
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I agree with your points about Korea, I don't think e-sports will be as big and financially lucrative any were else as they are in Korea so because of that SC2 will need to catch on with the pro and upcoming players on pro teams. a 2k tournament like day9's was awesome, but you can't justify playing SC2 for 10 hrs a day practice time if you are not getting a salary from a team. It needs to be a job for people more than a hobby to catch on else where and i dont think that will happen. I have heard things about MLG off and on over the years but until i can turn on the tv and see SC2 like you can in Korea its just not viable other than a game and not a sport.
Edit: I think foreign players are great to watch and i enjoy the tournaments but as soon as Korea picks up SC2 fully in the OSL/MSL they will be the standard to be like, i think its just a matter of time.
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The game is not perfect, but it is fantastic. You could say the same thing about BW.
I actually like that some of the units are used only in specific situations. I would hate it if every single game had motherships, or every single game had DTs as standard. Where is the wow factor if everything is always used? I think its better to have some units where when a top level player gets them everyone is on the edge of their seat waiting to see if the risk of unorthodox build pays off. Also, i dont get everyone saying mothership is useless. People should stop saying things are "useless" just because they cant auto-win ladder games every time they build them. I think a mothership would be pretty good at defending a heavily cannoned last expo.
To be completely honest i feel that most people will be more hyped on SC2 the higher the level of play gets. Once there are teams etc playing, and players with high profile and reputation are going head to head and doing things that people didnt think were possible, you will see many of the people who dont like SC2 turn right around. People forget that players like Boxer, Flash, etc fill a void and are remembered for taking the game up a notch when no one thought you could take it any further. There has to be periods where people think theyve seen it all for these types of players to break down that wall and show everyone there is more to the games depth than people thought. People arent even using chrono boost on warpgate cooldown yet for christs sake.
Give Starcraft 2 some time. By the way this is coming from someone who thinks BW is easily the greatest game ever made. Blizzard will look at the gameplay in SC2 as people play a shitload of games and they will add things in the expansions that bring the game into focus more than any amount of pre-planning could do. Patching and expansions are reactionary. We cant know fully what we want until we see for certain what we need. Right now everybody needs to just play to win. These are the wild west days of SC2s lifespan.
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I don't know where else to ask this question. Where can I learn how to use optimal macro? Liquipedia is ok but it definitely doesn't go enough in depth. Is there a way to switch views between bases and battles with out clicking on the mini map? Thanks.
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^
Hotkey buildings (e.g. Nexii), tab through them, hit space to centre screen on the selected building.
For battles it's even easier. Simply press the unit group hotkey twice to centre screen on them (I'm guessing you already know this..)
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nice read, awesome!
but you could remember the latin american community :'(
jajaja
cheers for starcraft 2 !
all beers on me!
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Actually, IdrA said that part of Brood War's sucess in Korea was due to an economic recession that had hit, and thus Starcraft was picked up a form of cheap entertainment. What are we in right now? I hope it gets as big as it did in Korea this time around.
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A little history here:
You know, when SC came out, it's 2D graphics were a step behind the competition (almost every review mentions Total Annihilation), and SC was only considered good because of the polish and attention to detail.
Also, "Most of us had never played a game like Starcraft." From a game industry perpective, I would find this statement puzzling. Everyone was on the RTS bandwagon -- Warcraft 2, Dark Reign, AOE, Total Annihilation, Myth etc... If you read the reviews of that time (metacritic) you'll see these "good/B+/A1" reviews of Blizzard's Starcraft. Like many of you know, the 12 unit limit was seen as a step backwards in RTS game design.
I understand that it's tempting to tell a story in your article: the passing of a great heritage from SC to SCII; but, i'd encourage you to stick to the facts a bit more. We don't need to pretend that Starcraft was perfect from the start to show that it is a great game.
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EPT
