• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:42
CEST 13:42
KST 20:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL54Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
RECLAIM STOLEN BTC HIRE BLOCKCHAIN CYBER RETRIEVE Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Korean Starcraft League Week 77 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL BW General Discussion Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Unit and Spell Similarities
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 675 users

[SC2B] Under the Microscope

Forum Index > News
265 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All

[SC2B] Under the Microscope

Text bySaracen
July 11th, 2010 02:14 GMT
[image loading]

It's no question that the big battle micro in Starcraft 2 is just not the same. Given, it's not a straight out 1a ranged war like many like to complain, but there are some elements of anticipation, excitement, and grace that just aren't there. This article will attempt to examine this phenomenon, look at it under a microscope, if you will, and explain those little things that just don't play out quite right.

In the Beginning…


In the beginning, when the Marine first donned his helm and suit of armor, when the first Zerglings hatched and slowly crawled across the creep on wobbly legs, when the Zealots were still finding their voice, their anthem, and their battle cry, there were two fundamental pillars of solid play. The first involved the production of these little creatures. The second concerned their control – their fighting prowess. And we saw that the production was good, and separated it from control. And we called the production “macro” and the control we called “micro.”

[image loading]

The hands of God...

The Two Fundamental Pillars


Since the conception of RTS games, management and control have coexisted. While fraught with countless differences, they have long maintained a delicate balance and harmony. But these differences are the key to explaining the unparalleled success of our ancient yet beloved game, Starcraft: Brood War. First, micro is the performance while macro is the preparation. Micro is what the audience sees, the culmination of countless hours of hard work and rehearsal. It’s the flashy explosions that make Starcraft the spectator sport it is today. Macro is that hard work, that behind-the-scenes toil that escapes the casual spectator, but is appreciated by the experts. The casual spectator merely sees the end product, the massive army, perfectly composed, and watches it steamroll the pitiful opposition. But all of the perfectly timed production facilities, scouts, and cut workers are just beyond his grasp. Second, micro is a conversation while macro is talking to yourself. Micro is dynamic – it’s the interaction, the clash, the brawl between two opposing parties. Macro, on the other hand, is static. All you need are a stopwatch, a list of timings, and a computer. That said, much like no one watches you macro by yourself, no one watches you micro against a computer. And, in the end, you would prefer to micro against an opponent instead of a computer as well. It’s the tension, the sweat, and the fighting spirit that make big battles so fun to watch, and to play.

[image loading]

One is the king of micro. The other is the king of macro. And bananas.

A Dynamic Game


Brood War has always been about dynamics. The game has been growing and developing ever since its conception over a decade ago, and even today, the best of the best are taking the game to new and higher levels of perfection. But that doesn't mean that micro has just now hit its stride. Quite the contrary, the Golden Age of micro was at the very dawn of Brood War's long and glorious years.
A word from our wise old moderator Plexa:
+ Show Spoiler +
Micro in SC has always existed and it is not the tricks we exploit in 2010 that define micro in SC. In fact, it wasn't until fast expand builds were popularized that you got the macro style you see today. The point is, micro is not a new invention. It's been something we've discovered from the get-go, not something we learned to gradually exploit over time. Examples:
- Boxer's marine/medic control vs YellOw (and siva)
- Boxer's dropship control vs Protoss
- iloveoov's three-way split avoiding lurker spines
- intotherainbow's reaver usage (in 2001)
- intotherains spell use
- Reach's mudang storming
- Kingdom's probe control
- Julyzergs mutalisk micro (pre-larvae trick)
- Nada's vulture harass
- etc

Indeed, micro is no recent development. But plunging straight into this vast ocean is a daunting task, so let’s shrink down to a smaller scale (or larger scale, if you’re a cartographer), and observe the complex interactions between units themselves. Each army has its own “fighting style.” A lurkerling army can set up a nice defensive position or can go in for the kill with a massive flank. A siege line slowly pushes towards its opponent’s base. And a Protoss ball of death just sort of attack-move rolls along. Similarly, the units and their abilities, themselves, are dynamic. As many people have mentioned before, they are game-changing as well, and, some would say, overpowered. Think about it: a spell that makes your burrowed attackers invincible; a thunderous area of effect spell that kills just about everything; an ability with three charges that can inflict massive damage, for just 75 minerals (plus a solid fighting and harassing unit to boot). As I like to put it, Brood War is a potpourri of imbalances, and the use or abuse of these creates not only the balance of the game, but the skill ceiling as well (think dark swarm versus irradiate). But, much more importantly, they are interactive. Which means they can be feasibly countered by the opponent. And thus, the fast-paced micro battle ensues, the battle the fans are dying to see; the brilliant storms or storm dodges; the timely dark swarms or irradiates; the epic scarabs or nullification of reaver harass. This player-to-player interaction of imbalances gives us the wonderful dynamic that exists in Brood War.

[image loading]

Can I pull back my vessels before he scourges them before I can irradiate his defiler before he can cast a swarm before I can split my M&M around his lurker field? Good luck.

Dynamics. It’s what makes Brood War tick. Even though the number of viable units in each match up is relatively small (you likely would see the exact same units every game), the amount of outcomes is enormous. The way each unit interacts on the battlefield, the way each player must exploit these units to their fullest potential gives Brood War its immense depth and longevity. It’s not something just anyone can master. It requires smart thinking and quick and accurate hands, everything we admire in a progamer. But it takes the hands of a god to play this game to perfection, and a battle between gods is so damn beautiful to watch.

Riding the Wings of Liberty


Here we are, over a decade later. Our technology is faster, sleeker, more advanced. Likewise, Brood War has upgraded to accommodate the average gamer with respect to graphics and gameplay. You are now immersed in a beautiful, crisp world where units are unquestioningly obedient, their pathing smart and straightforward. “I’m in heaven,” you think as you take a long and refreshing look around.
...or are you?

[image loading]

Looks so pretty!

Remember those two key components that made Brood War exciting and fun to watch? Unit potential and dynamics. Liquid`Drone's wonderful article "Power Overwhelming" covers what I have shamelessly dubbed “unit potential” quite nicely. Though units in SC2 are generally bigger, tougher, and attack faster and with more damage, there are a few things they have lost in the transition: game-changing spells and strong splash damage. And with this loss, the potential and dynamics of the game has deteriorated as well.

Back in Brood War, you had a nice counter interaction between clearly overpowered spells – irradiate and dark swarm, EMP, stasis field, and recall, psionic storm and, well, storm dodging and mutalisk sniping. Fast forward to SC2 and the emergence of autocasting, and the dynamics and unit potential are changed entirely. First, many spell interactions are no longer possible. Storm dodging is a thing of the past, as a pack of templar can deplete their energy in rapid succession faster than enemy units are physically able to move out of the damage radius. Spells like fungal growth suffer a similar fate. And then there are the new spells. Force field is a prime example of a spell that shuts down dynamics instead of promoting them, because, aside from a high-tech massive unit ramming into them, there is literally no way for an opponent to micro against force field. The success or failure of the battle, then (especially in the early and mid game), depends solely on a single player, and how well he places his force fields, while the other player can only sit back and watch. Compare this to even a terribly underused spell like disruption web, which forced more micro from the opponent, as well as created a positional advantage, and the difference between the two games is clear. And, with spells so much easier to handle, it’s blatantly obvious that a nerf is needed. But with the nerf to spells comes a terrible price – a single spell caster’s unit potential is decreased considerably. Again, look at high templar. No amount of SC2 high templar will ever be able to match the devastation and havoc Jangbi's few could wreak on a tank line. No amount of infestors will change the a game as much as GGplay's defilers did versus Iris. And with the dumbing-down of spell casters, we lose one more important thing: key timing windows. Remember in TvZ when all the Zerg had to do was hold out until a single ability finished before he could turn the entire game around? Remember how nail-bitingly exciting it was to watch those old Savior games where he would stall and stall until the very last second? Or the hydra bust that comes right before storm finishes? Or the siege mode and mines that come out just in time to stop the early Protoss aggression? Such hit-or-miss precision, such tense anticipation is no more.

A similar phenomenon exists with the reduction of splash damage. We have gone from the lurker to the baneling, from the corsair to the phoenix, from the reaver to the immortal and colossus, from the spider mine to the, well, nothing, and from the archon to the pitiful ball of a unit that goes by the same name. In Brood War, splash damage was a double edged sword. It forced micro from both you and your opponent (manually targeting to maximize damage versus splitting your army to minimize damage), but it also exponentially grew in power, such that a critical mass was with ranged splash units existed at surprisingly small numbers. The point? Splashing units in small numbers are great in that they encourage battle dynamics, but a large number of splashing units is hard to balance. So, with SC2, the units lose much of their splashing ability and effectiveness to compensate for easier control and smart AI. And even then, you can still see the tremendous power of splash units en masse. Just take a look at all the “Terran mech imba” threads that clutter the strategy forum. For balance’s sake, there’s no way you could argue against Blizzard’s decision of watering down splash damage. But with that decision, you will no longer bet on how many kills a reaver harass will net, or watch one of the most brilliant timing attacks in Starcraft history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUmb344E7ms

O nostalgia...

The sad and simple truth is, with a more sophisticated game engine, we’re getting less gameplay possibilities, not more. This explains why SC2 seems to emphasize army compositions, whereas Brood War emphasizes army control. SC2 is a beautifully designed game, and it’s wonderful to watch. But, in the end, I must echo the sentiments of those old nostalgic forum veterans who restlessly complain about the distant past. “It’s just not the same. The excitement is gone.”



A big thanks to Plexa, heyoka, and Liquid`Nazgul for their invaluable insight and support and to flamewheel and harem for the pictures.

Facebook Twitter Reddit
deadpoet
Profile Joined July 2010
1 Post
July 11 2010 02:19 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
Liquid`Sheth
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States2095 Posts
July 11 2010 02:22 GMT
#3
Good read. Very intereseting points about why SC1 was great, I hope we can find enough little tricks in SC2 that will make it interesting. Also if not theres always the expansion to hope for. Thanks for taking the time to write this!
Team LiquidUnderneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
XIII
Profile Joined September 2005
483 Posts
July 11 2010 02:26 GMT
#4
nice read, sad but true
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
July 11 2010 02:29 GMT
#5
--- Nuked ---
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24666 Posts
July 11 2010 02:30 GMT
#6
What many of us have feared since the beginning seems to be coming to shape more and more specifically and it's depressing... but at least the game is still fun :p
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
July 11 2010 02:31 GMT
#7
SC2 is fun, but yes. Brood War is best for the majority of us.
nextstep
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada705 Posts
July 11 2010 02:34 GMT
#8
I don't know if it's so much that the game less exciting,

but right now the reason why i don't watch (rarely watch) live matches/VODs of sc2 is because Korean progamers/teams haven't adapted sc2 yet, not because there's less tricks/focus on army control.

one perk i have about watching BW is watching my favorite Korean pros play, and watching proleague teams play. it just seems more grandiose than watching the current sc2 scene.

i still watch some sc2 games, and follow it (i.e. check results of tourneys), but until there's the fun factor of teams and leagues, i don't think i'll be able to fully immerse myself into the "viewing" side of the game.

a dramatized comparison would be watching regular people in my neighborhood play basketball at a random park, and watching the NBA. i prefer watching the NBA. note: i'm not complaining about the skill, it's just the fun of watching teams and famous players on teams playing vs each other. i'd totally love it if the US or Europe or wherever made team leagues and established a system.
go KHAN! TBLS <3
shwadowcopy
Profile Joined July 2010
1 Post
July 11 2010 02:35 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
Manlot
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Mexico111 Posts
July 11 2010 02:36 GMT
#10
Good read and solid points.
Jayde
Profile Joined July 2009
Marshall Islands104 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-11 02:45:37
July 11 2010 02:39 GMT
#11
Great read. Yes, while I love watching SC2, I hope Brood War continues on. As long as there are people in ICCUP, I'll be playing. I really hope both games can co-exist for a while, but I'm not sure.

[EDIT] I just finished watching the youtube VODs. That is why I love BW. Really. I mean, I'm sitting here in front of my laptop and the adrenaline really gets going. I remember watching a BW game on arirang (sp?) and this one scarab took out like half the zerg's army. It got something like 12 kills in 1 second. Totally stuff you scream about
Starcraft: Brood War <3
GooseBoy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States66 Posts
July 11 2010 02:39 GMT
#12
Reading this was interesting, until I realized this is YET another BW >> SC2 thread, which I am already sick of reading.
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
July 11 2010 02:41 GMT
#13
Yay my name is in this!
Saracen I really love you.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
July 11 2010 02:42 GMT
#14
Really nice article. It explains a lot of points that I haven't been able to explain to myself or others - I just felt it.
Brood War is the only game I've ever played that has a gameplay I consider beautiful.
화이팅
InfiniteIce
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States794 Posts
July 11 2010 02:44 GMT
#15
Totally agreed, have been thinking the same for a long time.

Though it is sad to know this is how the game is heading, it's true.....

Well written Saracen, thanks for the read.
i keep going back to my response to chill's fake PM and laughing, then immediately getting a feeling that i assume i'd get if i had an orgasm and the girl said "hahaha guess what i have a dick" -FakeSteve
ohN
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1075 Posts
July 11 2010 02:47 GMT
#16
Very well written.
That Jangbi vs nada game was sooo epic.
Traveler
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-11 03:20:24
July 11 2010 02:55 GMT
#17
I completely agree. Much of the new abilities seem to offer no counter to when they are used.

Having ones army cut in half by forcefields and then killed leaves one with such and utter sense of helplessness.

It seems that Blizzard developed some beautiful looking abilities that don't really add to the necessity of skilled management, but rather make it easier to cast 5 storms at once, or emp a bunch of units in less than a second.

Perhaps there could be ways to fix some of these things, like perhaps giving forcefields life points, or making it so that spells have a delay timer on them if they are cast grouped...
Can you ever argue in favor of something without first proving it?
Wargizmo
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia1237 Posts
July 11 2010 02:55 GMT
#18

Good read, however I do think there is potential for that kind of stuff to happen in SC2, I just don't think people have got good enough at the game yet.

I've seen videos of baneling carpet bombing, thor drops and other tactics that have been just as devastating as most of the things in those SC1 vids, there was one Idra move where he mind controlled a bunch of his enemy's templars and reverse stormed his entire army to turn the tide of a battle.

I honestly think we will have the same jaw dropping moments in SC2 as we did in SC1, the difference is that there's been 10 years of practice and pro gaming footage of one game compared to barely 3 months of the other.

Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is best. - Frank Zappa
RumZ
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States956 Posts
July 11 2010 02:57 GMT
#19
As a newcomer to the starcraft universe, it always pains me to read these threads and agree to a degree.

Great read.. Blizzard, please take notes.
ApacheChief
Profile Joined May 2010
United States21 Posts
July 11 2010 02:59 GMT
#20
I don't think this is true at all.

StarCraft 2 probably has MORE interactions between the races, with early game spells like forcefield, EMP and fungal growth.

I don't understand...
1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 3
ByuN vs ChamLIVE!
herO vs Reynor
Tasteless1596
Crank 1087
IndyStarCraft 234
Rex166
3DClanTV 110
IntoTheiNu 57
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #93
CranKy Ducklings75
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1596
Crank 1087
IndyStarCraft 234
Rex 166
ForJumy 29
MindelVK 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 10274
Horang2 1875
Larva 1068
Flash 1033
Jaedong 676
Stork 325
BeSt 276
Soulkey 218
actioN 212
Last 189
[ Show more ]
Hyun 172
Mini 162
Bisu 119
TY 105
Yoon 53
Mind 48
hero 43
sorry 42
sSak 37
Barracks 27
Free 27
GoRush 25
NaDa 21
Mong 18
sas.Sziky 17
Icarus 17
yabsab 15
ivOry 2
Dota 2
XcaliburYe561
canceldota155
League of Legends
singsing1680
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K482
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor237
Other Games
B2W.Neo1058
XaKoH 447
DeMusliM393
Lowko153
Happy147
SortOf135
Fuzer 93
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 892
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV506
League of Legends
• Lourlo2107
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
18m
FEL
4h 18m
RSL Revival
22h 18m
Clem vs Classic
SHIN vs Cure
FEL
1d
WardiTV European League
1d
BSL: ProLeague
1d 6h
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.