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[SC2B] Under the Microscope - Page 13

Forum Index > News
265 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 Next All
J3rk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States25 Posts
July 15 2010 17:25 GMT
#241
Some very valid and interesting points. Although I think we should keep in mind that the game we all love so dearly is actually Brood War, and not the original SC. I'm just praying and clutching to the fact that there are two more chapters to this saga for Blizzard to correct or tweak aspects of the game. Lets all hope that Blizzard listens to the die-hard and veteran players and there inputs. I'm tired of all of the catering they've been giving to casual gamers and Facebook tweens!
I am more animal than the zoo allow
Kingsp4de20
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States716 Posts
July 15 2010 18:51 GMT
#242
Enjoyed reading this, thanks
All Quiet
Profile Joined July 2010
United States62 Posts
July 16 2010 23:26 GMT
#243
Games evolve. They become easier and more accessable for the common man. Remember original video games? Where you had to type out commands and know basic to be able to play?look what they are today. I think PC gaming is past its apex, but that doesn't mean that some good games won't come out here or there, suh as Starcraft 2. Most of the emphasis is now on consoles.

Anyway, I would like to make a certain point: they still have shooting competitions using only a certain type of 1870's rifle. Starcraft is never going away. People will still have it, and even twenty years from now, people will still turn it in for nostalgia. There will still be LAN parties, and assuming that Blizzard doesn't discontinue Battle.net 1.0, there will still be tournaments. In south Korea, at very least.
The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us are going to the stars.
newton29
Profile Joined July 2010
5 Posts
July 17 2010 08:33 GMT
#244
--- Nuked ---
RainMan89
Profile Joined July 2010
3 Posts
July 17 2010 08:54 GMT
#245
--- Nuked ---
MechTech
Profile Joined July 2010
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-17 14:31:51
July 17 2010 14:25 GMT
#246
--- Nuked ---
l90 Proof
Profile Joined July 2010
64 Posts
July 17 2010 18:11 GMT
#247
Keep in mind that the game is still very new, there are two expansions to go...

Anyhow -- I think the decision to nerf the overpowered micro spells and units was obviously deliberate, and we have to assume it will stay that way.

Nonetheless, I think the article misses some points -- the small EMP and blink are excellent examples of micro-intensive spells that are still key.

Re: exciting moments/timing attacks, you still see a lot of that in the race for detectors vs DT, or the necessity of constantly re-balancing your army on the fly to respond to changing unit composition on the other side.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
July 18 2010 00:42 GMT
#248
banelings make micro battles very dynamic and fun. also blink. i totaly do not agree with the forcefield part. the micro involved is different and very dynamic actually. most ppl just dont bother to micro against it. also it is not true at all that units in sc2 deal more damage.

sc2 micro leans a bit more towards positionioning and tactics. this article is well written but 2 onesided and biased for my taste.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
nD.Sentinel
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8 Posts
July 22 2010 17:06 GMT
#249
uoh very nice text
100% agreed
Quote me.
painprophet
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania33 Posts
July 23 2010 17:31 GMT
#250
Well written article but clearly over reacting.

Force fields "shut down dynamics", come on ...

What about blink, what about borrowing supply depots, what about the new nydus, what about warp technology and warp prisms, what about concussive shells, what about reapers, what about colossus, what about the acceleration capabilities of each race (krono boost, mules, extra larvas), what about gravity beams and the list can go on ...

Starcraft is more dynamic than ever, to me it seems you are afraid of change or maybe you got old and melancholic, no ofence.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
July 23 2010 19:01 GMT
#251
On July 24 2010 02:31 painprophet wrote:
Well written article but clearly over reacting.

Force fields "shut down dynamics", come on ...

What about blink, what about borrowing supply depots, what about the new nydus, what about warp technology and warp prisms, what about concussive shells, what about reapers, what about colossus, what about the acceleration capabilities of each race (krono boost, mules, extra larvas), what about gravity beams and the list can go on ...

Starcraft is more dynamic than ever, to me it seems you are afraid of change or maybe you got old and melancholic, no ofence.

I don't think you understand what I mean when I say "dynamics." Dynamics, in this article at least, is the interaction between players on the battlefield. How do you micro against force field? How do you micro against concussive shells? The whole point of this article is that there needs to be more player-player action in the fights that matter.
Also, the whole point of the article is to talk about big battle micro, not cutesy tricks you can do, or macro mechanics.

Please read my previous replies in this thread if you think I'm "afraid of change" or got "old and melancholic."
TheGrimace
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States929 Posts
July 23 2010 19:21 GMT
#252
About microing away from concussive shells, you usually have to run because you engaged prematurely against a superior force. I'd say your lack of scouting can no longer be saved by control, for better or worse. It also means the terran player has to chase and kill without committing too much or finding himself out of position if you are reinforcing. I don't find it to be a bad dynamic. With moving while burrowed and blink, it's also really easy to catch a kiting terran out of position.

FF is another beast however. On a ramp it is hard to prevent unfavorable results through control. Hopefully larger maps start emerging. In open areas it is interesting to see people's choices on where FF goes or whether it would simply be better to throw up your shield.

Easier casting and macro may change the flavor of competition, but I don't think players are in the right mindset for this game. Since creating your army is easier with MBS, that should free more focus for players to fight on more than one or two fronts. Harassment should be very interesting. Certain aspects of the game getting easier means a greater player can spend more time controlling, positioning and scouting his opponent.

I'm ready to watch and learn as Starcraft 2 grows. There may be growing pains, but in the hands of skilled players I see good things coming.

Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 19:27:47
July 23 2010 19:27 GMT
#253
On July 24 2010 04:21 TheGrimace wrote:
About microing away from concussive shells, you usually have to run because you engaged prematurely against a superior force. I'd say your lack of scouting can no longer be saved by control, for better or worse. It also means the terran player has to chase and kill without committing too much or finding himself out of position if you are reinforcing. I don't find it to be a bad dynamic. With moving while burrowed and blink, it's also really easy to catch a kiting terran out of position.

FF is another beast however. On a ramp it is hard to prevent unfavorable results through control. Hopefully larger maps start emerging. In open areas it is interesting to see people's choices on where FF goes or whether it would simply be better to throw up your shield.

Easier casting and macro may change the flavor of competition, but I don't think players are in the right mindset for this game. Since creating your army is easier with MBS, that should free more focus for players to fight on more than one or two fronts. Harassment should be very interesting. Certain aspects of the game getting easier means a greater player can spend more time controlling, positioning and scouting his opponent.

I'm ready to watch and learn as Starcraft 2 grows. There may be growing pains, but in the hands of skilled players I see good things coming.


I agree completely with this. I think the future of Starcraft 2 lies with harassment and multitasking. Drops are incredibly potent in this game, even compared to SC:BW. Plus, Blizzard has given us many tools to work with to increase mobility, for example the Nydus Worm and Warp Gates/Prisms. And many traditional drop nullifications such as scourge are gone. I hope in the near future, more players will play around with drop heavy harassment play to capitalize on all of the mobility options given to us. But it's still an entirely different matter from actual down-to-earth micro.

EDIT: hmm, that gives me an idea for another article...
EximoSua2
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States216 Posts
July 23 2010 20:54 GMT
#254
Maybe you're just not a kid any more. Ever consider that?
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
July 23 2010 21:04 GMT
#255
On July 24 2010 05:54 EximoSua2 wrote:
Maybe you're just not a kid any more. Ever consider that?

What's that supposed to mean, mister "SaharaDrac of sclegacy.com?" And have you ever considered reading the articles on TL as constructive criticism instead of typical elitist whining and complaining?
painprophet
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania33 Posts
July 23 2010 21:29 GMT
#256
On July 24 2010 04:01 Saracen wrote:
I don't think you understand what I mean when I say "dynamics." Dynamics, in this article at least, is the interaction between players on the battlefield. How do you micro against force field? How do you micro against concussive shells? The whole point of this article is that there needs to be more player-player action in the fights that matter.
Also, the whole point of the article is to talk about big battle micro, not cutesy tricks you can do, or macro mechanics.

Please read my previous replies in this thread if you think I'm "afraid of change" or got "old and melancholic."


You micro away from concussive shells by throwing some force fields . Against force fields use EMP to prevent them from even happening. There's your interaction between players.

I didn't list all those things as being new tricks but new mechanics in SC2, mechanics that bring a wider range of diversity into the game.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
July 23 2010 21:35 GMT
#257
On July 24 2010 06:29 painprophet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2010 04:01 Saracen wrote:
I don't think you understand what I mean when I say "dynamics." Dynamics, in this article at least, is the interaction between players on the battlefield. How do you micro against force field? How do you micro against concussive shells? The whole point of this article is that there needs to be more player-player action in the fights that matter.
Also, the whole point of the article is to talk about big battle micro, not cutesy tricks you can do, or macro mechanics.

Please read my previous replies in this thread if you think I'm "afraid of change" or got "old and melancholic."


You micro away from concussive shells by throwing some force fields . Against force fields use EMP to prevent them from even happening. There's your interaction between players.

I didn't list all those things as being new tricks but new mechanics in SC2, mechanics that bring a wider range of diversity into the game.

These are good points. I'm not saying that dynamics are nonexistent in SC2, just that they are lacking. And I tried to give technical reasons for that.
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
July 24 2010 01:58 GMT
#258
yeah, i guess "they don't make'em like they used to .... "
the world changes, RTS-es change too
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
sva
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States749 Posts
July 24 2010 23:12 GMT
#259
I hope scbw keeps around for as long as it can. I really enjoy watching it and the magnitude of the games are incredible.

I do think sc2 will become a great game with time, and the spectator aspect will grow immensely with this game.

Hopefully the future of e-sports will be great.
RAH66Comanche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States12 Posts
July 25 2010 22:14 GMT
#260
All you have to do is keep playing Brood War and spare us the crying. We'll be busy playing SC2.
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