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Great read that defines what has been discussed in many threads but not very often so well worded.
SC2 is a much more positional game I agree, what Im interested in is is given time and knowledge will that 'positional skill' be as interesting to watch in pro matches as 'micro control skill' was in BW?
I can't answer my own question just yet. Currently Im still fascinated with watching the new playstyles emerge from the (currently) top players. Watching the difference between White-ra and Nony for example. There definitely feels like enough depth to the game that styles of players are starting to show up. This is an excellent thing.
Is there enough depth to make it a game of evolving styles like BW has been for so long? I don't know yet. SC2 certainly isn't the micro-macro game of BW and this article defines that clearly but is that a bad thing? Too early for me to tell but I appreciate such a nicely written article to read that defines the terms so well 
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I'd think by reading this that what would destroy Starcraft 2 is Nostalgia...
Nostalgia is always a uncreative way of viewing things, while being completely understandable and sentimental, likewise Human as its finest. Still, there's no way to know how Starcraft 2 would evolve, when you look at the beginning of SC.
Life can be full of surprise. Will this game be too ?
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I don't see how positional play affects SC2 as much as BW. You don't have high ground advantage, flanking, or strategical position holding units like the lurker/tank/reaver.
IMO the most important feature of SC2 is composition and timings. This doesn't mean that it wasn't important in BW, but rather, the other mechanics aren't as useful in SC2.
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i always thought the reaver was a stupid buggy retarded unit and the stupid scarabs always brought in too much luck into the game.
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On July 12 2010 16:08 brinbran wrote:
i always thought the reaver was a stupid buggy retarded unit and the stupid scarabs always brought in too much luck into the game.
The thing is, no one complained about it. High pay-out at a high risk.
It kinda irks me when I see people who are new to the scene disagree with this article. To me it feels like they don't even know what they're missing and that they're ignorantly dismissing everything it talks about.
Sigh. I'm just going to wait it out. Just a sheep following the SC2 crowd.
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I wish I started playing BW 10 years ago. I'd probably be WhiteRa-good right now XP
It's kind of pointless to start now tho so I think I'll just stick with SC2.
But I must agree. SC2 will never match BW in certain aspects... "/
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God needs to trim his finger nails. Nasty.
Ok, I read the article. This is basically just reiterating what I have been saying since the beta was released, albeit in a very articulate way. Thanks for the great read.
SC2 is fun, but I don't think it will be a successful e-sport. It feels like it's being forced, and many people are pushing for whatever reason. Certainly it's the best game to come about in quite some time, but it's not, nor will it ever be as awesome bw. I would not buy stock in SC2 based e-sports. The development team either succumbed to the lowest common denominator, or simply didn't understand why bw was such a tremendous game. Period. IMO.
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On July 12 2010 19:18 lu_cid wrote:
God needs to trim his finger nails. Nasty.
Ok, I read the article. This is basically just reiterating what I have been saying since the beta was released, albeit in a very articulate way. Thanks for the great read.
SC2 is fun, but I don't think it will be a successful e-sport. It feels like it's being forced, and many people are pushing for whatever reason. Certainly it's the best game to come about in quite some time, but it's not, nor will it ever be as awesome bw. I would not buy stock in SC2 based e-sports. The development team either succumbed to the lowest common denominator, or simply didn't understand why bw was such a tremendous game. Period. IMO.
True. They should use popularity of SC2 amongst "new/younger" players to revive BW and turn it into major E-sports in the west (Outside of Korea)! XD
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Is that fangirl screaming in the background of the Jangbi storm video? Epic.
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The time will show how SC2 is evolving! Just give it a chance. :3
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On July 12 2010 11:06 Misrah wrote:
Listen up and respect the hard work and opinion of the forum veterans. these people will know more about sc and rts than you ever will. they understand both games very intimately- and when one of them creates a wonderful piece, it's simply rude to answer with a simple one liner.
Really? You're equating Starcraft knowledge and experience with forum post count and join date? Wow.
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Not equating. But when someone with 12 posts comes and says "You compare BW which is a 10 year old game to something which is still in the beta", you want to smack them in the face. You could have at least read the article (which is very intelligently written) in it's entirety before responding (with such a thick comment).
If only all the SC2 fanboys would realize that defending the game at every point is not in best interest of it's development. Saying that you prefer SC2 over the original is a ridiculous thing to say, and doesn't at all go hand in hand with the "it's only beta" argument. I can only blame dreams of careers and glory coming from an all new supported game for all this fanatical apologetism.
One of the responses of Haypro from his interview says it all. When asked what he likes about the game, he says it's the community, because there are a lot of old players coming both from Warcraft 3 and original Starcraft. He didn't mention the algorithm of the game itself at all.
I want Starcraft 2 to be a great game much more then you blindly believe and try to lie yourself and others it is. But in it's current state, it is not.
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I disagree with a lot of this, makes me wonder if the OP has really watched enough high level SC2 play.
"Though units in SC2 are generally bigger, tougher, and attack faster and with more damage, there are a few things they have lost in the transition: game-changing spells and strong splash damage. And with this loss, the potential and dynamics of the game has deteriorated as well."
Do a search on DPS. There's a chart comparing sc1 to sc2, values are actually all pretty similar for comparable units. Concerning splash damage, units clump up more in SC2, so a even little splash damage possibly deals more damage.
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On July 13 2010 00:24 cloaked wrote:
I disagree with a lot of this, makes me wonder if the OP has really watched enough high level SC2 play.
"Though units in SC2 are generally bigger, tougher, and attack faster and with more damage, there are a few things they have lost in the transition: game-changing spells and strong splash damage. And with this loss, the potential and dynamics of the game has deteriorated as well."
Do a search on DPS. There's a chart comparing sc1 to sc2, values are actually all pretty similar for comparable units. Concerning splash damage, units clump up more in SC2, so a even little splash damage possibly deals more damage.
Trust me, I have played enough high level SC2 play. Don't even get me started about watching... However, this comment makes me wonder if the poster has really watched any SC:BW play. Because if he had, he wouldn't have even thought about saying this.
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+ Show Spoiler +
hoho, found him in diamond~
constructive criticism on the ARTICLE people... not attack the WRITER... that is disgraceful
SIGH, despite loyalty to the sc franchise... i don't think sc2 e-sports will ever come close to the success of bw. but that is besides the point! maybe the dynamics of sc2 will be changed after years of patching, we ought to keep an open mind...
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On July 13 2010 01:52 AncienTs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +hoho, found him in diamond~ constructive criticism on the ARTICLE people... not attack the WRITER... that is disgraceful SIGH, despite loyalty to the sc franchise... i don't think sc2 e-sports will ever come close to the success of bw. but that is besides the point! maybe the dynamics of sc2 will be changed after years of patching, we ought to keep an open mind...
Hohoho that was fast. By the way, my main race is Zerg... I have been offracing this phase because I want to get a better feel for the other two races since I plan on writing some fun build order articles in the future...
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On July 13 2010 00:17 Smu wrote:
Not equating. But when someone with 12 posts comes and says "You compare BW which is a 10 year old game to something which is still in the beta", you want to smack them in the face. You could have at least read the article (which is very intelligently written) in it's entirety before responding (with such a thick comment).
Note that one can apply this knee jerk reaction in reverse. "When someone with 12938 posts comes and says nothing can approach BW, and that everyone who disagrees with OP hadn't read the article and/or hasn't shown sufficient deference with regard to how intelligently written it is, you want to smack them in the face."
Once upon a time, you had 1 post. Your epeen has grown quite a bit since then, but no amount of intelligent analysis can cover for the fact that SC:BW > SC2 or SC2 > SC:BW is a matter of taste. I don't begrudge any SC:BW vets the right to claim BW as superior as long as they don't masquerade it as fact.
I prefer watching brood war to sc2. Is this because the typical BW game that makes its way to my browser is played at a much higher level? Or is it because BW is hands down superior? I do not possess the temerity to claim the ability to answer this question, and I'd like to think this will not change as my epeen slowly grows.
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Idra vs. DrunkBobby
I'm much too low-level of a Broodwar player to say much about the significance of this game, but I think that it showcases the possibilities of micro in Starcraft 2. From what I have seen, this sort of play is certainly the exception rather than the rule at this point, but it might still be a little bit early to make solid judgments.
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And yet all the games he referenced happened how many years after SCBW was released? SC2 hasn't even been released yet. And though you may say that it already has limited itself, think of how many game changing things happened between SC1 and SCBW. And even then! The patches change the game all the time.
I say, give it chance. The micro/macro is not what kills this game just yet, the only thing killing it is the noose around the Custom Communities neck in making new maps/mods.
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After reading this article I have one question in mind:
Would you like to have a SC:BW with the new engine? Is that what you want?, a BW with it's face washed?
Plese, oh please, give the game the chance to develop and evolve. If you're right, it will (should) get there
I understand the points of the pro-players, they're pretty fair and, really, who the hell I am to argue with them? (I haven't play starcraft for more than 8 years - to say the least)
Still, every time I read about this topic, that what I feel. That you guys want SC:BW with the new engine.
Honestly, I can't agree with that.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i31.tinypic.com/103tpg4.jpg)
