EPTThanks for the excellent write-up.
[SC2] Passing the Torch - Page 6
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DanielD
United States192 Posts
Thanks for the excellent write-up. | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On July 28 2010 22:43 Garrl wrote: To the OP, I despise this. You've essentially wrote a huge wall of verbose text to say one thing you could have said in a sentence: "I want BW to die and SC2 to succeed". Tell me, OP, did Blizzard ask you to write this? It seems to me it's just propaganda hype for SC2 to say BW HAS GONE ON FOR TOO LONG, KILL IT. Yeah that's exactly what he said. I can't even begin to describe how little I respect this post or this poster. Great write-up as usual Arrian. Very enjoyable to read. Your mild response to stuff like this makes you all the cooler in the community's eyes I'm sure. Also a really cool little mini history of broodwar  , thank you. | ||
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Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
On July 29 2010 01:24 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It's almost like there is something that keeps you from seeing reality. Both TL and foreign players have been highly critical about SC2 in lots of articles that you can find all over the place. How come statements like these still pop up when TL has been a breeding ground for things to improve about SC2? Both in forums and newssection. Well there may be people like Lalush criticizing actual gameplay issues raither than battle.net 2.0... issues. But I have the feeling that A LOT of people are hyping the game just because they want to earn money with it and not because it is a good multiplayer game like CS/BW/DotA/.... Basically every single good player I talk to says BW is a better game. But it's also 12 years old and these guys have played it over and over and over. They also all switch to SC2 because they feel it is the future, because they love gaming so much, because they love competitive play so much, because they love a new challenge, because they love to make money from the passion that they have. For all these reasons they are switching to the newer game. They aren't making $200k a year like Flash/Jaedong that will keep them going forever in BW. They have to make decisions in their lives which I think is something we can all respect. Despite all that, I have yet to see any of those guys claim SC2 is the better game. Everyone is critical of it, but it is still going to be the big thing in years to come. Yes, that's no problem. If I were Idra, seeing that it is incredibly hard to get into a starleague I would certainly switch over to SC2 too. And that may be true for any good (BW) player. But that doesn't mean that SC2 will be as successful as BW in terms of longevity, let alone as an E-Sport. As some people already said, the skill ceiling doesn't seem to be high. If you watch old [GG99]Slayer or NTT replays (or replays of yourself t.t), you had like 120, 130 EAPM back in the day. Now look at where people are today. 240, maybe more. BW was so much fun to play because you never thought "wow that was perfect". There was always something to do. And that's why we admire people like Flash or Jaedong. Because they are just so fucking fast and give us the feeling that you can indeed master the game. How many pro gamers still kinda lack late game management? And that are pros, playing the game 10, 12 hours a day 12 years after it's release. I don't know what the Expansion packs will bring. But I don't think that SC2 can compete with BW in terms of skill requirements. And, given your logic everyone will play Warcraft 4 in a few years, given that it has a better engine/more people playing it/more price money................. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
If it was that fucking easy, I'd be the new Boxer. Hey everyone, call me Boxer! | ||
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AncienTs
Japan227 Posts
it'll just seem so... "unprofessional" that a pro player has to log into a b.net account in order to play in an esports tournament. the fact that you're always connected to b.net mainframe gives me the feeling that big brother is watching. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
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Lightningbullet
United States507 Posts
On July 28 2010 16:20 Waxangel wrote: Enjoyed the optimism for SC II, but the "BW is dead/stale/whatever" stuff I've seen enough of already. Point being, you can write something that says "let's make SC II great" without having to attach "because there's something wrong with brood war" to it. I agree. BW will be here if the fans support it. And that will last some time. | ||
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kmdarkmaster
France188 Posts
Good for them that way, but it ruined the possibility of SC2 to become a sport like SC:BW. (Unless Western cultures drop their stupid "games are bad, gamers are nerds" motto, or else SC2 as E-sport will remain just a dream.) | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2272 Posts
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Qwerty.
United States292 Posts
On July 29 2010 00:25 lisherwin wrote: Sure, SC2 is drawing larger audiences than most non-SC RTS games, but that's a consequence of the release of any RTS that bears the name "Starcraft X". The clamor of any SC2 progaming tournament held so far, as I've seen, doesn't come close to the uproar of the gathering of fans for something like, say, the Korean Air OSLs. Even in SC1's supposedly weakest stage of its lifetime, the fans are still crazier for the Korean progamers than they are for the most dominant SC2 players we have now. But please, throwing money into a legacy-dependent entrepreneurial venture, like SC2, is one thing and an everlasting, enjoyable game to watch and play is another. The latter is what produces a permanent and dominant e-Sports game. You're comparing community-run tournaments in a game's beta with largely foreign players participating, to a ten-year esport's biggest tournament sponsored by a national airline? Golly, I can't argue with that logic. | ||
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MadJack
Peru357 Posts
As some people already stated in this thread, it is very annoying how people are so biased about a game the've known for less than 6 months, and discard and rate old and useless a game they've grown to love for more than 10 years. The thing about this is that most of these people, 1 month before the announcement of SC2 they were still very enthusiastic for SC1 as much as they are now for SC2. Once they heard, they tought this is a fresh start, I can be one of the best in this game, when I couldnt on its predecesor... Before you start saying to yourself its not like that, this kind of behaviour has already been seen in gamers from various and diferent games types, not only RTS but as the like of FPS and specially MMORPG. Who wouldn't love a fresh start, specially when it comes with arrangements so that it gives you the chance to be at the top with much less skills. To make my point clear, ill give an example. Take Football and "futsal"; over the last years futsal has become a crecent sport with more and more people starting to like it as much as football, and why not? its much easier to keep up through a 40m field for 40 min divided in 2 halves with a 10 min break. Now not everyone can play football for sure, you need to be atlethic in order to keep up the rythym of the game, while anybody, anybody can play futsal in a competitive level, theres not really any requirements, believe me, Ive seen fat guys being in good teams in my country. Which reminds me the same situation of SC2/SC1, and let me ask you this, why if futsal is so newbie friendly(anyone can do it), football fans dont move on into it? Why does people still like so much football if its such an old old game/sport (in 1983 the Football Association was founded in England). Its because people tend to appreciate what is hard, people love the ones who can achieve what most cant, people ovacionate and become fan of the ones who can make easy what for them is so hard. Not everyone can do what Di Stephano, Van Basten, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Kaka and other great players had/have achieve, thats why they are recognized, thats why people cares about them, and that is why people like football. It is because its so hard, that starcraft progamers are being looked up, because they've earned it, all those our they spend, doing something they like is what most people appreciate about them, all things that are good in live, are hard to get, and if they arent hard, they are not worth it. Life rewards hard work and sacrifices, but when you love something sacrifices are meaninless in comparison to reaching your goal. Why do i say this, because I dont believe that people will follow the scene of SC2, theres no passion, theres no real skill, theres no reward. For me, its really sad to see the comunity just game hopping, leaving behind this great game that filled a part of their lives for more than 10 years. For SC2 to become succesful as an esport, better say, to actually become an esport, all gamers will have to convince others to blindly believe and accept that the game is great, as you've done with it so far. If not, I believe this game's destiny is to fail like W3, only that this time, maybe gamers will not bounce back to SC1. If you have read this far, you prolly think im an anti-SC2. I'm surely not, SC2 its a good game (specially the campaing must be sweet), but its just that, I just dont like the fact that people is turning over just cuz its easier to play or cuz it has modern graphics, it just seem like prefering a beautiful dumb/bad girl, over a nice smart girl (if you would choose the fisrt, you know what kind of a person you are). GoodLuck in your new game, cuz if USA whole gamer comunity, (I dont mean the few that come in TL.net) and get USA sponsors and leagues, your hopes of making your game as successful in korea, as I stated before, I think in korea should fail the same as W3. Those are my predictions, not my hopes, as I believe unlike with W3, this may actually kill all the SC1 pro-scene. PS.- Agree with palexhur, and I hope what Lightningbullet says becomes true. | ||
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afirlortwo
United States161 Posts
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
On second thought, no. SCII will be big. But not for me, at least if all the old players go back to BW. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On July 29 2010 02:47 Djin)ftw( wrote: Well there may be people like Lalush criticizing actual gameplay issues raither than battle.net 2.0... issues. But I have the feeling that A LOT of people are hyping the game just because they want to earn money with it and not because it is a good multiplayer game like CS/BW/DotA/.... Yes, that's no problem. If I were Idra, seeing that it is incredibly hard to get into a starleague I would certainly switch over to SC2 too. And that may be true for any good (BW) player. But that doesn't mean that SC2 will be as successful as BW in terms of longevity, let alone as an E-Sport. As some people already said, the skill ceiling doesn't seem to be high. If you watch old [GG99]Slayer or NTT replays (or replays of yourself t.t), you had like 120, 130 EAPM back in the day. Now look at where people are today. 240, maybe more. BW was so much fun to play because you never thought "wow that was perfect". There was always something to do. And that's why we admire people like Flash or Jaedong. Because they are just so fucking fast and give us the feeling that you can indeed master the game. How many pro gamers still kinda lack late game management? And that are pros, playing the game 10, 12 hours a day 12 years after it's release. I don't know what the Expansion packs will bring. But I don't think that SC2 can compete with BW in terms of skill requirements. And, given your logic everyone will play Warcraft 4 in a few years, given that it has a better engine/more people playing it/more price money................. War3 eight years after its release still has big tournaments going on. War3 sucks. War3 requires 80APM. War3 has a small player base compared to SC2. These might be exaggerated but you get my point. All big organizations will always look to include an RTS game for their tournaments. This game is not going to be BW and it's not going to be War3 over SC2 either. So it's SC2 or something newer and better. If nothing better comes along SC2 is guaranteed to have all the big organizations supporting it for a long, long time. There's really not that much room for debate on this. I'm not talking about skill ceiling of longevity of the game. These are all things that BW is much better designed for, but BW isn't going to influence anything with regards to tournaments outside of Korea so it's not going to affect SC2's status as an esport. | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On July 29 2010 02:47 Djin)ftw( wrote: Well there may be people like Lalush criticizing actual gameplay issues raither than battle.net 2.0... issues. But I have the feeling that A LOT of people are hyping the game just because they want to earn money with it and not because it is a good multiplayer game like CS/BW/DotA/.... A lack of criticism? Really? Really? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113585 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=115277 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=115733 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=116142 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117708 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120471 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120612 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=135462 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137990 (doesn't "criticize" Blizzard, but suggests how we can improve the game) | ||
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