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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Hmm I see the relevant section of the OP now:
Q: Didn't KeSPA also seek profit seeking activities such as selling broadcasting rights?
- KeSPA did not earn any profits from broadcasting rights. KeSPA is a cultural nonprofit corporations so it does not make profits. Any broadcasting fees are reinvested in whole to the operations of matches.
- Every year KeSPA submits accounting reports to board of directors, and can make public any accounts regarding complete reinvestment of broadcasting fees.
- Fundamentally there needs to be a little bit of industrialization so that the players can show good matches, by solving their needs similarly to that of a profession.
- The 12 gaming teams invested a lot of money every year, and KeSPA puts effort into reinvests every cent made by broadcasting fees to create new broadcasts and game organizations.
- Events like the world cup and Olympics and other big sports events are impossible without efforts like these.
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On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC.
KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters.
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On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC.
Kespa is a bastard child organisation body of the corporates to protect their investment and interests in the E-Sports business, they are originally made to help regulate and protect the rights of progamers... now they are run haphazardly by the sponsors pulling the strings behind the scene. i do not argue that E-Sports needs a centralised regulating body, but Kespa isn't what E-Sports needs in order to expand and grow.
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5003 Posts
On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters.
I don't think Korean mega-conglomerates will take it nicely to be one upped by Blizzard, just saying.
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No one is defending all the bad stuff Kespa has done in the past, and no one is denying that thier a bunch of douchebags. However, thats not what this is about at all. Everyone in this thread is just taking sides based on whichever company they hate the most. The important thing here is that SC:BW progaming is about to get shut down.
Why can't just Blizzard/GOM build thier own Esports scene around SC2? Why do they need to go steal something someone else built for the past 10 years? And if they really want to make an international Esport, what are they doing in korea to begin with? Do they really think SC2 will succeed if they kill SC:BW?
GOM has the right to use SC2, good for them, I just wish they'd stay the fuck out of BW. If SC2 is a superior game(LOL) it will take over in the end anyway right....
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France2061 Posts
On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters.
Are you trolling me or something? I'm sorry, but what you're arguing seems inane.
KeSPA is made up of representatives of each company. It's not a "middle man"; it has no separate, independent interests -- it exists only to fulfill the needs of the sponsors.
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Why can't just Blizzard/GOM build thier own Esports scene around SC2? Why do they need to go steal something someone else built for the past 10 years? And if they really want to make an international Esport, what are they doing in korea to begin with? Do they really think SC2 will succeed if they kill SC:BW?
In a word, yes.
Blizzard has to establish it's right to the eSports scene before SC2, or KeSPA will just naturally progress over. And they can't sue KeSPA for something they haven't done yet (broadcast SC2). Hence, they have to go after the IP rights issue in general.
Also remember that this goes beyond broadcasting for SCBW. WoW, WC3, all will be effected by this case.
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Well KeSPA arguments looks nice but there is one point that disturbs me:
when they say that esports is like a regular sport and its broadcasting is therefore free, then taking adidas as an example, is completly misleading.
You pay to braodcast the world cup! Adidas is an equipment maker, just like razer in a league for instance so obviously they dont get anything. But the broadcasts are never free.
Now it s a bit easy to compare SC with a ball sport since you cant say who invented such a sport, whereas Blizzard created SC.
But apart from that their reasoning seems pretty well structurated
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On June 01 2010 03:13 snowdrift86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters. Are you trolling me or something? KeSPA is made up of representatives of each company. It's not a "middle man"; it has no separate, independent interests -- it exists only to fulfill the need of the sponsors.
Are you dodging me or something?
I know what KeSPA is for the 100000th fucking time. I'm asking you to explain to me why the e-sports model would fall apart if sponsors didn't have KeSPA. KeSPA is a cushion, it is a luxury that sponsors have to make sure that they get whatever they were promised. It turns a 10% risk venture into a .05% venture. I'm asking you AGAIN to tell me why it is impossible for sponsors to deal with broadcasters without the KeSPA cushion. KeSPA not existing does not mean that players/fans and the rest of the market does not exist.
There is money to be made in eSports. Sponsors that find it worth investing into will still invest. KeSPA is simply UNNECESSARY.
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On June 01 2010 03:16 WGT-Baal wrote:
Well KeSPA arguments looks nice but there is one point that disturbs me:
when they say that esports is like a regular sport and its broadcasting is therefore free, then taking adidas as an example, is completly misleading.
You pay to braodcast the world cup! Adidas is an equipment maker, just like razer in a league for instance so obviously they dont get anything. But the broadcasts are never free.
Now it s a bit easy to compare SC with a ball sport since you cant say who invented such a sport, whereas Blizzard created SC.
But apart from that their reasoning seems pretty well structurated
But what if football inventor is found and he requested control over all football matches and leagues..
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France2061 Posts
On June 01 2010 03:19 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:13 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters. Are you trolling me or something? KeSPA is made up of representatives of each company. It's not a "middle man"; it has no separate, independent interests -- it exists only to fulfill the need of the sponsors. Are you dodging me or something? I know what KeSPA is for the 100000th fucking time. I'm asking you to explain to me why the e-sports model would fall apart if sponsors didn't have KeSPA. KeSPA is a cushion, it is a luxury that sponsors have to make sure that they get whatever they were promised. It turns a 10% risk venture into a .05% venture. I'm asking you AGAIN to tell me why it is impossible for sponsors to deal with broadcasters without the KeSPA cushion. KeSPA not existing does not mean that players/fans and the rest of the market does not exist. There is money to be made in eSports. Sponsors that find it worth investing into will still invest. KeSPA is simply UNNECESSARY.
Again, your point is inane.
Those sponsors that find esports to be worth the investment are in KeSPA. If other companies were involved, then it would just be KeSPA under another name. GOM will perhaps find its own sponsors, but with all the companies interested in a long-term investment in esports (not just one or two starleagues) already in KeSPA, there's no reason to think that they will. Korean business culture makes it even less probable, as the chaebols are all closely linked and often imbricated with one another in joint ventures, so that if KeSPA refuses to deal with GOM other companies will follow suit.
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On June 01 2010 03:19 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:13 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters. Are you trolling me or something? KeSPA is made up of representatives of each company. It's not a "middle man"; it has no separate, independent interests -- it exists only to fulfill the need of the sponsors. Are you dodging me or something? I know what KeSPA is for the 100000th fucking time. I'm asking you to explain to me why the e-sports model would fall apart if sponsors didn't have KeSPA. KeSPA is a cushion, it is a luxury that sponsors have to make sure that they get whatever they were promised. It turns a 10% risk venture into a .05% venture. I'm asking you AGAIN to tell me why it is impossible for sponsors to deal with broadcasters without the KeSPA cushion. KeSPA not existing does not mean that players/fans and the rest of the market does not exist. There is money to be made in eSports. Sponsors that find it worth investing into will still invest. KeSPA is simply UNNECESSARY.
Like you said, Kespa minimises the risks for sponsors. The risk is a lot higher than 10% considering the millions it costs to run a gaming house each year. It took over a decade for the SCBW scene to get to the level of sponsorship it has today. E-sports is not like football (soccer) in Korea, the returns aren't nearly as great. You're exaggerating the amount of money to be made in E-sports. Why would sponsors readily invest millions into an industry if you take away their ability to minimize loses/their representative organization? Corporations like Samsung/STX/SKT, if the risk outweigh the benefits, they will simply not invest.
And if massive conglomerates pull their sponsorship of teams, what makes you so sure other corporations will readily jump in? Why invest millions into e-sports when you have little bargaining power against Blizzard? Kespa may be unnecessary from your perspective but certainly not from the perspective of sponsors.
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I will support Blizzard 100% if it comes up with the money to house and salary 12 progaming A teams. Otherwise, I will continue to support Kespa.
Blizzard should speak with its money not with its words. If it truly supports E-Sports, it will offer to pay Jaedong, Flash, and others more money than Kespa is giving them right now and steal them away. It will hire the A teamers and give them a better salary. It will provide better living conditions. If it can't do that, then it should STFU and leave E-Sports alone.
On another note, I am tired of seeing poor play, especially in SC2. SC2 right now is filled with players that make a shitload of mistakes and have poor multitasking skills. As a fan, I want players that dedicate themselves and train 12 hours a day to give us the best show they can. I don't want to watch people who play casually while juggling other jobs and school. The only player that so far has impressed me is Tester(the ex-progamer). I heard he lives in a private house and practices SC2 12 hours a day.
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On June 01 2010 03:37 hacpee wrote:
I will support Blizzard 100% if it comes up with the money to house and salary 12 progaming A teams. Otherwise, I will continue to support Kespa.
I am tired of seeing poor play, especially in SC2. SC2 right now is filled with players that make a shitload of mistakes and have poor multitasking skills. As a fan, I want players that dedicate themselves and train 12 hours a day to give us the best show they can. I don't want to watch people who play casually while juggling other jobs and school. The only player that so far has impressed me is Tester(the ex-progamer). I heard he lives in a private house and practices SC2 12 hours a day.
completely agree. Look Blizzard. We as esports fans only care about awesome bw and sc2 leagues and matches. If you can singlehandedly support 12 progaming teams, constructing team house facilities, pay progamer's salaries, organize leagues like MSL, OSL, Proleague or whatever other league you wish to create, if you can make the Korean esports scene at least as good as it is now, then I don't care what the fuck you do with your SC2 in Korea. Otherwise, you are just ruining it and doing a disservice to us esports fans.
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As long as progaming goes on as is, with the proleague and Starleagues and whatnot, I'm not too worried, although you never know what kind of dumb things Kespa is going to do, being the douchebags that they are.
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On June 01 2010 03:32 snowdrift86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:19 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:13 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters. Are you trolling me or something? KeSPA is made up of representatives of each company. It's not a "middle man"; it has no separate, independent interests -- it exists only to fulfill the need of the sponsors. Are you dodging me or something? I know what KeSPA is for the 100000th fucking time. I'm asking you to explain to me why the e-sports model would fall apart if sponsors didn't have KeSPA. KeSPA is a cushion, it is a luxury that sponsors have to make sure that they get whatever they were promised. It turns a 10% risk venture into a .05% venture. I'm asking you AGAIN to tell me why it is impossible for sponsors to deal with broadcasters without the KeSPA cushion. KeSPA not existing does not mean that players/fans and the rest of the market does not exist. There is money to be made in eSports. Sponsors that find it worth investing into will still invest. KeSPA is simply UNNECESSARY. Again, your point is inane. Those sponsors that find esports to be worth the investment are in KeSPA. If other companies were involved, then it would just be KeSPA under another name. GOM will perhaps find its own sponsors, but with all the companies interested in a long-term investment in esports (not just one or two starleagues) already in KeSPA, there's no reason to think that they will. Korean business culture makes it even less probable, as the chaebols are all closely linked and often imbricated with one another in joint ventures, so that if KeSPA refuses to deal with GOM other companies will follow suit.
My problem isn't with the idea behind something like KeSPA. Like you said, its the only way something like pro-league will work. I just get agitated when people tell me the only way eSports will ever work is with KeSPA the way it is now.
Put simply, for what the players sacrifice they are not being compensated enough. KeSPA has NO interest in anything but getting sponsors every dime they can.
For what progamers make they should be entitled to pursue any progaming money making opportunity they can. KeSPA choosing to to protect sponsor dollars rather than someones very limited pro-gaming career is just wrong..
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gom> kespa.. i dont give a shit if there is 50 games a week, or just 5.. if i can watch those 5 in English commentary, in english website, without having to listen to some korean screaming, not to mention trying to find games in korean website
Gom had biggest prizes too.. which frankly is better for the players.. even if current team fails, new ones will form..
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On June 01 2010 03:48 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 03:32 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:19 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:13 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:08 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 03:03 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 03:01 keV. wrote:On June 01 2010 02:59 snowdrift86 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:55 Bill307 wrote:On June 01 2010 02:29 snowdrift86 wrote:
What money? It's weird reading people who think that KeSPA is somehow secretly making a killing behind their players' back. It's advertising. Why should they spend money on their players or infrastructure for the sake of a crappy internet TV?
A starleague sponsor is investing way less money in esports than the KeSPA sponsors. And "before KeSPA" is before 2001 (when KPGA started), only two years of esports. Back when KeSPA was still KPGA, the only news that ever arose involving KPGA was the KPGA Tour and the KGPA player rankings. Maybe back then people just didn't know or care about KPGA's other roles in progaming. But KeSPA today seems like a completely different beast than the original KPGA. They seem to be involved in so much more. If KeSPA was always like this then that's news to me. So tell me, what exactly does KeSPA do? If they're not working for their own benefit, then whose benefit are they working for? I have trouble believing that they work solely for altruistic reasons. They don't appear to be working for the average progamer's benefit, either. They're the SPONSORS. No KeSPA = no money = no proscene. Explain to me again why sponsors are impossible without KeSPA. If there is money to be made, then sponsors will bite. KeSPA is a middle man. They ARE the sponsors. Good God, there isn't any other way for me to say it. KeSPA = Samsung, SK, KT, STX, etc., + OGN and MBC. KeSPA is NOT the sponsors, they REPRESENT the sponsors and they are there to make sure that everyone gets their money. KeSPA is a middle man between Samsung and GOM. I'm asking you to explain how esports is going to fall apart if sponsors talk directly to broadcasters. Are you trolling me or something? KeSPA is made up of representatives of each company. It's not a "middle man"; it has no separate, independent interests -- it exists only to fulfill the need of the sponsors. Are you dodging me or something? I know what KeSPA is for the 100000th fucking time. I'm asking you to explain to me why the e-sports model would fall apart if sponsors didn't have KeSPA. KeSPA is a cushion, it is a luxury that sponsors have to make sure that they get whatever they were promised. It turns a 10% risk venture into a .05% venture. I'm asking you AGAIN to tell me why it is impossible for sponsors to deal with broadcasters without the KeSPA cushion. KeSPA not existing does not mean that players/fans and the rest of the market does not exist. There is money to be made in eSports. Sponsors that find it worth investing into will still invest. KeSPA is simply UNNECESSARY. Again, your point is inane. Those sponsors that find esports to be worth the investment are in KeSPA. If other companies were involved, then it would just be KeSPA under another name. GOM will perhaps find its own sponsors, but with all the companies interested in a long-term investment in esports (not just one or two starleagues) already in KeSPA, there's no reason to think that they will. Korean business culture makes it even less probable, as the chaebols are all closely linked and often imbricated with one another in joint ventures, so that if KeSPA refuses to deal with GOM other companies will follow suit. Put simply, for what the players sacrifice they are not being compensated enough. KeSPA has NO interest in anything but getting sponsors every dime they can.
Im sure blizzard will pay them more money with better conditions..
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On June 01 2010 03:50 Smikis wrote:
gom> kespa.. i dont give a shit if there is 50 games a week, or just 5.. if i can watch those 5 in English commentary, in english website, without having to listen to some korean screaming, not to mention trying to find games in korean website
Gom had biggest prizes too.. which frankly is better for the players.. even if current team fails, new ones will form..
Who will pay for the team's salaries? For the housing and food? Blizzard? If so, great.
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On May 31 2010 22:56 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 22:53 FortuneSyn wrote:On May 31 2010 22:38 Milkis wrote:On May 31 2010 21:31 fallingdream wrote:
- 12 programming teams to come together to "strongly oppose" blizz. made me rofl so much, 12 teams? really kespa? try more like 3, sparkyz, mbcheroes and skt, all of the rest don't give 2 shits about you.
- oh noes teh fanz!!11 where were the fans you kespa killed gomtv tournaments? you did not only killed the sc tournament, but also the wow and war3 also. what about those fans?
- starcraft is blizzards game, deal with it or gtfo. saying it like "well shucks yo, we helped blizz get money because of us", really? and what did kespa get for their work? candy? hmmm I could have sworn they also got big $$$ out of it, silly me.
- logical discussion about the growth of esports eh? hmmm, maybe they could care to explain where was the logic behind killing a tournament which hosted and promoted THREE games. I'd love to hear it, hypocrits.
- oh noez teh fanz!!! v2.0 You know it's people like you who completely make me regret bothering to stay until 4 AM translating this shit, people who's just willing to stay up and wake up and make ignorant, bullshit comments and not read anything else. Holy shit. Get rid of your fucking biases and read or something, cause honestly it's people like you who put in a terrible taste in my mouth and make me think twice how worthwhile it was. So yeah, no thank you for actually reading what I translated. Actually, I probably don't even need to translate for idiots like you because you probably will have an opinion no matter what and not afraid to speak regardless of the facts. So if people voice opinions that are opposite of what you believe in, then that is considered offensive to you? Stop being childish. He makes very good points in his post, and you reply with complete ass-whine. Try arguing against his point instead of ass-whining. Opposite? Nothing to do with that. The point is it's clear he didn't even bother spending time reading everything I translated and just jumped to some minor points with retarded assumptions. @ FortuneSyn: Nice, jumping into the fray without considering what was said.
It is not about "ass-whining". While, fallingdream made the point that that KeSPA chose its own interests over the survival of GOM gaming broadcasts, everything else was mere rhetoric.
Of course every team cares about what happens to KeSPA, who represent the sponsors that keep SC1 afloat (and give them a level of stability).
The sponsors not make an actual profit - they do it for the positive image/advertizing.
You just went after Milkis, who also had "good points" or motive to respond to Fortunesyn.
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EPT
