EPTKeSPA responds to Blizzard - Page 17
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10824 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:09 Longshank wrote: Keep in mind, workers in sweatshops in third world countries aren't forced to work there either. Taking advantage of their desperate situation still doesn't justify it. that's a terrible analogy and you know it | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10824 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:05 Bill307 wrote: He also knows that e-sports in Korea was already successful long before KeSPA managed everything. Moreover, if there isn't enough money to support all these players, then why does KeSPA allow them to become progamers (slaves) instead of forcing them to find an actual career or to go for higher education? Perhaps because more slaves = more money for KeSPA, so they have no financial incentive to stop it. In fact, in recent years KeSPA has only increased the # of players who become official progamers each year, despite the fact that essentially all of them are doomed to slavery until they quit. Edit: Actually, I don't see how it'd kill the proteams to give their players a minimum wage instead of giving all the money to a handful of top players. So I don't see why there isn't a rule making a minimum wage mandatory. i would highly disagree the statement that esports was "already successful" before kespa managed stuff. i mean sure, if you think having a bunch of teenagers stuck in a 1 room apartment living off of 1 bowl of ramen a day, only able to feed themselves off of tourney winnings rather than a salary/sponsorship by large corporations is a successful esports scene then i guess you have a point. *edit* with regards to the minimum wage thing, i think it has to do with the fact that some of their b-teamers are under the legal working age... but you can't really blame kespa for that, since these minors need their parents' permission to become progamers | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On June 01 2010 00:47 Maaku wrote: Then why are there reports off some pros earning $200,000+ but on the other end they earn $10,000? What has that to do with anything Blizzard - KeSPa related? But ok. There are progamers that are MILES away from other progamers. A teamers that get run over hardcore by big names! People act like everyone is more or less on the same level but that's such a misconception. There are A teamers that dont even come close to 50% winrate. Look i'm all for the idea that raising the salary level for players not in the spotlight is great. But here's some reality check. Either you WIN games or you WIN fans. There is no value in loosing and hiding. Noone is forcing you to be a practice partner. I'm not saying "shut up or leave", i'm saying "improve the system, the enviroment step by step". If you think someone like Dongrae should earn more cash and Flash less you are out of your mind. And how on earth should that be the fault of KeSPa anyway? You don't simply run into a sponsors office going "There are players that don't win, have faces like a car crash, no personality for the entertainment business....more cash is what i'm saying. NOW". The scene is doing fine. There is always room for improvement. In fact the Teams should push the players more for anything related outside of the harsh gaming environment. Go for the advertising contracts (like with Reach and Yellow back in the day), more shows (Nal_rA's and Hyungjun's should just be the start), more publicity appearances (like SKT1 does it on a regular basis), more TV appearance (like Nada). That is how you build up. That's how sponsors recognize your work and are willing to put more money in the system. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:21 StarStruck wrote: Yeah there are several tournaments for Warcraft 3, but do they get the same coverage on cable networks as SC:BW let alone actual press? Not so much. Usually they're live feeds. There are much more people watching and playing WC3 in China than there are people watching and playing BW in SK. I don't know the exact details since I'm out of the scene, but I know China has it's own Tv Channel for eSports too (like OGN and MBC). And outside of the "big countries", WC3 is much bigger than BW. | ||
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Spritescaper
United States63 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:05 Bill307 wrote: He also knows that e-sports in Korea was already successful long before KeSPA managed everything. Moreover, if there isn't enough money to support all these players, then why does KeSPA allow them to become progamers (slaves) instead of forcing them to find an actual career or to go for higher education? Perhaps because more slaves = more money for KeSPA, so they have no financial incentive to stop it. In fact, in recent years KeSPA has only increased the # of players who become official progamers each year, despite the fact that essentially all of them are doomed to slavery until they quit. What? I'm sorry, but that's not Kespa's responsibility; that responsibility lies with the progamer and his family. What are you trying to say, that Kespa "tricks" impressionable kids into becoming progamers? We all know teenagers aren't the brightest of thinkers, but these kids made the conscious decision to become a progamer with full knowledge of all the risks involved. Hell, most of them had to get approval from their parents. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Kespa. Sure, progaming could be considered a shitty job, but so is working in the fast food industry. Why aren't we criticizing THEM for not forcing its employees to find an "actual career" and get a higher education? More slaves = more money for McDonalds, right? But then, who will be serving us our burgers? | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
If Blizzard has its way, "e-sports" will end up as little more than another marketing tool for game companies (which is how Blizzard seems to see it). It is doubtful that I will ever buy any of their products again. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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wiesel
Germany727 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:28 heishe wrote: There are much more people watching and playing WC3 in China than there are people watching and playing BW in SK. I don't know the exact details since I'm out of the scene, but I know China has it's own Tv Channel for eSports too (like OGN and MBC). And outside of the "big countries", WC3 is much bigger than BW. wc3 in china is pretty big but nowhere near having 300+ progamers + serveral teams like in korea. Let alone the viewership.I like wc3 don't understand me wrong but I don't know where you got that info from. | ||
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Nich
397 Posts
Rough summary of other events going on. - The 12 Progaming teams to come together to "strongly oppose" Blizzard - KeSPA: This is an situation where Blizzard fundamentally ignored the existence of the fans, the players, and the progaming teams and the effort, toil and passion poured into eSports. - KeSPA: Through the Starcraft Leagues Blizzard gained an increase in sales and worldwide reputation. Even though Blizzard has been the greatest beneficiary from eSports, Blizzard has never supported eSports. The biggest reason why negotiation did not work out was because Blizzard suddenly pushed forth "Intellectual Property" and claimed ownership of games produced by the players and commentators, demanding information about KeSPA/auditing abilities, demanding that every league operations get permission from Blizzard and other rights that are outside common sense - KeSPA: KeSPA's and the gaming team's situation is that they wish to have a logical and sensical discussion with Blizzard to negotiate, and that they wish that Blizzard would join the development of eSports as an important game creation company. If Blizzard throw away their domineering attitude and greed and wishes to renegotiate, then KeSPA will help Starcraft 2 and other games to be established as eSports. - KeSPA: The most important part about eSports is the rights of the fans The article just tell me how desperate is KeSPA now. Selling broadcasting rights for a game they didn't create more or less screw them self up. blizzard didn't support e-sport is pretty much... a joke? They won't have partnered ESL tv if this is true. but if kespa were really sincere in helping SC2 as a e-sport, rating it as adult only? and i personally do thinks that GomTV and KeSPA have 2 different agreement for broadcasting rights, maybe blizzard demanded money from their previous broadcasting rights, who knows? | ||
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Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
i mean just look at how KESPA handled the so called "Free Agent" player shit that allows player transfer, does it really looks like they give a shit about the players? | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:31 HnR)hT wrote: This is far more serious than many here seem to realize. Blizzard is trying to single-handedly wreck e-sports. If they can, by claiming intellectual property rights, prevent tournaments for their games from being broadcast then the entire concept of e-sports will be discredited. If tennis were owned by some corporation as "intellectual property," the said corporation having the power to shut down any organized competition, then tennis could not possibly be considered a sport. It is the same here. I'm personally appalled at Blizzard's behavior. It is no doubtful that I will ever buy any of their products again. Yeah, its not a sport then.. Its just a promotion tool for them.. Nobody owns real sports.. Who will invest money in something one company has complete control.. | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
I can, to some extent. Here are some of the similarities and differences that come to mind: - At both times, the top players were the only ones who made significant money. But now there are MANY more progamers on the teams who earn nothing. Furthermore, since this kind of treatment has been going on for so long, you'd think an organization like KeSPA would've instituted some kind of minimum wage rule years ago, or helped create a progamers' union, if it actually gave a damn about the players. - At both times, there were sponsored individual leagues hosted by OnGameNet and KPGA/MBCGame. These really haven't changed at all. There might be more prize money now, but it still goes to only the top 2 or 3 players in the league. There are team leagues now, but these started a long time ago, and OGN and MBCGame were the ones who decided to start their own team leagues. So I doubt KeSPA deserves any thanks for this. - In 2003, there weren't many rules for progaming matches. Players could talk during the match. Players could do "ceremonies" after their matches (although this really only picked up a few years ago, before KeSPA outlawed it). Now, we have stupid rules that were created by KeSPA. Players can't have ceremonies anymore. Players can't type ANYTHING during a match except for "gg" and "pp" -- EXACTLY these two things. Thanks to KeSPA, typing "ppp" to ask for a pause because your monitor stopped working (hence you can't really see that you mistyped "pp") = disqualification. - In the past, besides OGN, MBCGame, and WCG, there haven't been many other leagues for progamers to compete in. There were some that existed before 2003, but disappeared before then. iTV existed for a while, but folded. Then KeSPA started to control everything. For a long time there was nothing but OGN, MBCGame, and WCG, although this is not necessarily KeSPA's fault: afaik it was just hard for other companies to secure sponsors. Then, recently, GOM came along and introduced its own league. They even got Tasteless to provide english commentary, which is something UNHEARD OF from the ranks of OGN and MBCGame. How did KeSPA respond? Did they try to make e-sports bigger? Did they embrace GOM and help them to become big like OGN and MBCGame? Nope. KeSPA kicked e-sports in the nuts by forbidding progamers to play in GOM, effectively shutting GOM down. Is this the kind of behaviour we're supposed to see from a company that "helps e-sports"? | ||
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immacolate
Serbia199 Posts
despite 12 years of technological superiority, SC2 is not even remotely interesting enough to take BW's place as the top e-sport and spectator's sport, so blizzard has to do their best to completely remove BW from TV, and leave the starcraft universe fans with only one option: to watch their cool SC2 units use their super cool special powers, among the boring nothingness that this game really is. kind of like another personal favorite of mine, WWE in wrestling, watered down and numbifyingly stupid product with great pyrotechnics and huge production budget but no substance, perfectly suited for braindead corporate children of 2010. | ||
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MageKirby
United States535 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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wiesel
Germany727 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:51 MageKirby wrote: Why does Blizz remind me of Microsoft more and more lol Soon Bill Gates comes around too, e-sport on TV with my Windows? Pay me plz | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 01 2010 01:55 wiesel wrote: Soon Bill Gates comes around too, e-sport on TV with my Windows? Pay me plz This is pretty much what Blizzard is doing... | ||
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