EPTI can't believe GOM went along with this. Blizz is just using GOM as a puppet, at the end of the 3 years contract, GOM will be in the same position as Kespa today! Beside, what kind of company works with foreign powers to destroy/take-over something that your very own country took 10 years to build? All those sweat and blood! Traitors.
KeSPA responds to Blizzard - Page 16
| Forum Index > News |
|
mmdmmd
722 Posts
I can't believe GOM went along with this. Blizz is just using GOM as a puppet, at the end of the 3 years contract, GOM will be in the same position as Kespa today! Beside, what kind of company works with foreign powers to destroy/take-over something that your very own country took 10 years to build? All those sweat and blood! Traitors. | ||
|
mmdmmd
722 Posts
删前留名 | ||
|
Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On May 31 2010 16:42 QibingZero wrote: I too would love to hear answers to these very same questions KeSPA has, Blizzard. It's all too convenient that you don't even approach the Korean BW scene for all these years, and now you care so much right as you're planning to make/release SC2. The burden of proof is on you here. I mean, KeSPA is being damn realistic. What, do you think you've lost potential sales from all the free advertisement they've given you? Do you think you've lost reputation based on the fact they've crafted a game you created into the only sustainable eSport so far? Are you really upset that your brand is now practically a household name in Korea? Congratulations. You've made an organization like KeSPA sound this reasonable to even some of your biggest fans. All this, and now your hubris continues to cloud all judgment. Do you really think bashing the very people who made you as popular as you've been in Korea is a good thing? Do you really think you can fight the powers that be in Korea, alienate tons of fans, and somehow have SC2 surpass BW? I mean, come on. You sign with an inferior host. Your new game has almost zero innovation and actually goes backward in time with it's lack of important features. You're fighting an uphill battle while SC2 is still in beta and showing it. To be honest, KeSPA shouldn't even offer to pay you any royalties, because it's more than obvious what you're doing. You further the precedent on designers getting paid royalties despite not actually having to do anything, and your profits continue to increase. Now you can make the turnover on non-MMO games meet whatever insane demands for profit you and Activision have these days. It says a lot about your character to see that you're using the same logic the music industry does as far as profits go. Congratulations, you've officially joined the ranks of companies that have made IP rights seem like a terrible idea in practice. Exactly my view. Thx QibingZero. On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote: People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa. Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid... And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc... I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying. I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. You of all people should know best that there is basically no profit in ESPORTS and feeding 300+ progamers is an achievement in itself. You know that some of these sponsors could have easily left the scene during the recession but for an industry revolving around such an old game we have a remarkable stable enviroment. Progaming houses costs are in the millions. Yes you do have your B teamers and practice partner that make next to nothing but money wont just rain out of the sky. Everyone in the scene is a pioneer! I don't know what's going to happen next, but i dont see how rerouting the money flow and every right over any content to Blizzard is going to help any progamer! | ||
|
mmdmmd
722 Posts
If you can't stop, it's because you are just a hypocrite. | ||
|
Spritescaper
United States63 Posts
Give me a break. Pro SC is too much of a niche market and doesn't have the financial backing to offer all players equal benefits. Yes, only the best of the best players gain any sort of recognition for their efforts. Accordingly, competition is deathly fierce, and if you aren't willing to devote a large chunk of your time to practicing, you're going to fall behind. And we all know falling behind in the progaming world means you're soon to be out of a job. Yes, the conditions are brutal. Yes, in an ideal world, every progamer would have an equal chance to make their way to the top and earn a decent living. And yes, if e-sports was a much more lucrative venture, the average wage for the average progamer would be higher and everyone could enjoy improved living conditions. But we don't live in an ideal world. Sure, it's what we wish e-sports could eventually become in the future, but what we have to keep in mind is that this is still a fledgling industry. It still has much to grow, and growth takes TIME. Corporate interest (represented by Kespa) in e-sports is the best thing that ever happened to Starcraft. It's the reason why we have teams like SKT1 and KT and Khan with their own team houses duking it out in proleague. Without corporate interest, progaming is simply what it was 10 years ago; players residing with their parents hoping to earn their allowance through tournament winnings. As players like Kingdom and oov have pointed out, conditions for progamers are a lot better now than it was during their earlier days. You can't deny that there is definite progress being made. If you have a well-structured argument backed up by facts or empirical evidence as to how e-sports could be run better, I'd love to hear it. | ||
|
SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On June 01 2010 00:28 ret wrote: I am not blaming KeSPa for povery at all. I am saying that I want them to treat their gamers better. and I think that Blizzard/GOM will. Can you plz stop making weird assumptions.. and I am saying Blizzard wont care one bit about the bw scene, let it die and hope sc2 becomes a good successor (which I doubt). This will be the loss of tons of working places. Especially with the cross realm thing Blizzard proved that all they care about is money and the current BW scene is not profitable. Solution? Let it die. | ||
|
Maaku
United Kingdom142 Posts
You of all people should know best that there is basically no profit in ESPORTS and feeding 300+ progamers is an achievement in itself. You know that some of these sponsors could have easily left the scene during the recession but for an industry revolving around such an old game we have a remarkable stable enviroment. Progaming houses costs are in the millions. Yes you do have your B teamers and practice partner that make next to nothing but money wont just rain out of the sky. Everyone in the scene is a pioneer! I don't know what's going to happen next, but i dont see how rerouting the money flow and every right over any content to Blizzard is going to help any progamer! Then why are there reports off some pros earning $200,000+ but on the other end they earn $10,000? | ||
|
Shaoling
Sweden344 Posts
If i try to make sense of it, its like this, Blizz says ok guys broadcast but dont sell the broadcast rights, thats what WE do, communicate with us and well set it up. And KeSPA didnt agree. thats blizz's beef and KeSPA are trying to confuse us into thinking that theyre being solicited of money they dont have, so that the fans will rise as one against blizzard. | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote: People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa. Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid... And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc... I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying. I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. This is one of the only posts in this topic that are actually worth reading. Not surprising since ret has been in the scene for 7+ years: he's actually lived through the history of progaming that 99% of the posters here have only read about (at best). | ||
|
Maaku
United Kingdom142 Posts
On June 01 2010 00:49 Bill307 wrote: This is one of the only posts in this topic that are actually worth reading. Not surprising since ret has been in the scene for 7+ years: he's actually lived through the history of progaming that 99% of the posters here have only read about (at best). With all that said people still try to tell him he has no idea what he's talking about and they themselves have a better insight, just cause he's reply isn't all kespa are the best and treat people fairly! Dream world crap | ||
|
SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On June 01 2010 00:49 Bill307 wrote: This is one of the only posts in this topic that are actually worth reading. Not surprising since ret has been in the scene for 7+ years: he's actually lived through the history of progaming that 99% of the posters here have only read about (at best). He also has no knowledge of Korean (Asian) society, working conditions there and pretty much clueless about anything outside Europe. K-pop artists get treated as badly or even worse as B-teamers in Korea. It is normal there. Is it right? Hell no. Is Blizzard going to change it? Hahaha, dont make me laugh. | ||
|
dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
On June 01 2010 00:27 stellarvector wrote: You guys are right, negotiations between kespa and Blizzard are done, but this helps us decide if Blizzard is the type of company we actually want to maintain our esports title. I think Kespa made very valid accusations about Blizzard using IP rights in a esports situation. So valid in fact, that the more I think about it, the more I wonder if Blizzard's claim for IP would even hold up in a court of law. Everyone in esports who plays the game, owns the game. We all have a valid license, so- where does the IP get infracted when we all play it together and host a tournament? How do tournaments suddenly fall under the control of Blizzard? It's a violation of our rights to fair use in my honest opinion, and I wonder if anyone on here is a student of law couldn't find our if it's a violation of fair use. Charles i m not a law student but took a course on law and much of it was contract. the EULA set alot of limits to use of the software and blizz is not totally groundless in their IP claims. Blizz owns IP right on all character drawings we see in game. When the games are broadcasted, a large amount of that drawing is being reproduced to a very large audience. This is sufficient to violate the fair use rule because reproduction of the game, in part or in full violates most software EULA's. Fair use would protect situations like if MBC give a review of the game and show a "reasonable length" footage of game play or cut scenes. However, Blizz normally does not have ownership of the video, since the MBC studio decoration, the audio commentary, the player's game play etc, constitute original work created by those involved. So if the matter goes to court, all parties will have partial title to the video. So no party alone would be able to broadcast it without getting sued. Currently, Blizz demands that KeSPA/MBC/OGN/Players give up IP rights over any content created where their work (SC or BW) has been used in any capacity. This way, Blizz will have full title to sell their broadcasting rights to any party they want. While outrageous, this is legally possible, so long as KeSPA/MBC/OGN/Players sign the contract. | ||
|
iounas
409 Posts
Get Flash and Jaedong on quake live, I would watch them play any game.. I and many others wouldnt give a shit about starcraft if it wasnt for Korean progaming.. It would be just another old dead game.. I hope blizzard fails.. sc2 is not as fun to watch as sc1.. | ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:52 Milkis wrote: Can you people stop talking about B Teamers and pretend that that is a valid point? Not even minor leaguers in baseball/other sports have well paid minor leagues. B Leaguers are there because they want a chance to be an A teamer. Nothing else. Precisely. They are there because they choose to be there. Yes, they're young and focus on the present instead of looking to the future. Which is fine as long as they're content with it. This has been said many times ;/ On June 01 2010 00:44 mmdmmd wrote: To all those who were absolutely disgusted by the way Kespa treats progamers, you are indirectly supporting them by tuning in every OSL/MSL/PL games. Please show them that you really HATES them by not watching any more Korea pro SC matches. If you can't stop, it's because you are just a hypocrite. Although KeSPA has made some pretty stupid mistakes we would be stuck in the stone age. Everything they worked towards would be lost. I for one am not disgusted how they treat players. Like I just said the players choose to be there. It is their choice. They get the basic necessities and any success they have, sure they'll make a little money on the side too. Eventually I'm sure the players will form their own Union if they aren't content with the practices of their said team, or they'll ask to be traded. Either way, what you said will be unheard because the Korean scene is Korean (redundant I know -_-) for a reason. The foreign viewers are just icing on the cake to them. | ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
| ||
|
letian
Germany4221 Posts
"On May 31 2010 16:42 QibingZero wrote: I too would love to hear answers to these very same questions KeSPA has, Blizzard. It's all too convenient that you don't even approach the Korean BW scene for all these years, and now you care so much right as you're planning to make/release SC2. The burden of proof is on you here. I mean, KeSPA is being damn realistic. What, do you think you've lost potential sales from all the free advertisement they've given you? Do you think you've lost reputation based on the fact they've crafted a game you created into the only sustainable eSport so far? Are you really upset that your brand is now practically a household name in Korea? Congratulations. You've made an organization like KeSPA sound this reasonable to even some of your biggest fans. All this, and now your hubris continues to cloud all judgment. Do you really think bashing the very people who made you as popular as you've been in Korea is a good thing? Do you really think you can fight the powers that be in Korea, alienate tons of fans, and somehow have SC2 surpass BW? I mean, come on. You sign with an inferior host. Your new game has almost zero innovation and actually goes backward in time with it's lack of important features. You're fighting an uphill battle while SC2 is still in beta and showing it. To be honest, KeSPA shouldn't even offer to pay you any royalties, because it's more than obvious what you're doing. You further the precedent on designers getting paid royalties despite not actually having to do anything, and your profits continue to increase. Now you can make the turnover on non-MMO games meet whatever insane demands for profit you and Activision have these days. It says a lot about your character to see that you're using the same logic the music industry does as far as profits go. Congratulations, you've officially joined the ranks of companies that have made IP rights seem like a terrible idea in practice." | ||
|
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On June 01 2010 00:38 Jayson X wrote: You of all people should know best that there is basically no profit in ESPORTS and feeding 300+ progamers is an achievement in itself. You know that some of these sponsors could have easily left the scene during the recession but for an industry revolving around such an old game we have a remarkable stable enviroment. Progaming houses costs are in the millions. Yes you do have your B teamers and practice partner that make next to nothing but money wont just rain out of the sky. Everyone in the scene is a pioneer! I don't know what's going to happen next, but i dont see how rerouting the money flow and every right over any content to Blizzard is going to help any progamer! He also knows that e-sports in Korea was already successful long before KeSPA managed everything. Moreover, if there isn't enough money to support all these players, then why does KeSPA allow them to become progamers (slaves) instead of forcing them to find an actual career or to go for higher education? Perhaps because more slaves = more money for KeSPA, so they have no financial incentive to stop it. In fact, in recent years KeSPA has only increased the # of players who become official progamers each year, despite the fact that essentially all of them are doomed to slavery until they quit. Edit: Actually, I don't see how it'd kill the proteams to give their players a minimum wage instead of giving all the money to a handful of top players. So I don't see why there isn't a rule making a minimum wage mandatory. | ||
|
tenpromicro
United States119 Posts
On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote: People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa. Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid... And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc... I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying. I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. are you kidding me man? Do you expect health benefits and a 401k for pro gamers? The industry has to start somewhere. You can't get ahead of yourself and expect the world before the foundation is established. | ||
|
Longshank
1648 Posts
| ||
|
Ahzz
Finland780 Posts
2. 'Blizzard just suddenly came out of nowhere demanding our respect for their IP'. ... What are they talking about? The whole IP thing started when they started SELLING BROADCASTING RIGHTS for starcraft. 3. They're just dodging the questions where they're 'accused' of not respecting IP. Both are greedy, thats certain, but in no sense is kespa better than blizzard. | ||
| ||
