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5003 Posts
On May 31 2010 23:32 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:31 Milkis wrote:On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. They were unemployed. They chose to work for those conditions. They made the choice. Are we to stop people from gambling? Because that's what B teamers are actually doing. Almost slavery? Way to completely and utterly undermine actual slavery. No they were young teenage kids chasing a dream without knowing where they would end up and what the consequences would be... naive 12-13 year old boys. Read the recent articles about the progamers conditions coming from the Korean Community. Slavery is just a term, perhaps not rightfully used, im sorry you were offended.
It is true that they are young teenage kids and they are making decisions. However, they're free to quit at any point.
The recent article is nothing but yellow journalism to me -- they simply show the consequences of their choices and how "bad" they are (despite conditions consistently improving) without making any mentions towards why the things are that way or the decisions they had made. In korea they're not even going to care about that, the only reason why it's such a big deal is because everyone is looking at it with some idealistic American/European viewpoint.
To be honestly, I think their conditions are fine. In fact, I can see a lot of people paying for that right to live like that to "learn" from progame teams, and one way of paying is just going without salary.
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On May 31 2010 23:22 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:14 buhhy wrote:On May 31 2010 22:59 keV. wrote:
To your first point, It is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene AND make the games. My only point was that KeSPA should not be the EXCLUSIVE association that is handling an entire pro-scene.
Lol. If it is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene, then they do not need control of it. End of story. You seem to have misconceptions on what KeSPA is; it's the conglomerate of ALL the corporate sponsors. If a company like Pringles would like to start investing in the progaming scene beyond a tournament, it's going to join KeSPA. The only reason KeSPA is the exclusive association managing the pro-scene is because the market impact of the pro-scene is so small. If there was more interest, more companies would begin sponsoring teams and more associations will emerge. Simple supply and demand. Blizzard just sold broadcast rights to GOM. They won't be handling anything. I understand what KeSPA is, what people don't seem to understand is how much control their position offers. I find it odd people are still making these kind of points when the Blizzard/GOM tournament was spat on by KeSPA just recently. The issue is the indirect control KeSPA wields over the pro-teams and broadcasting.
I am sorry, but the way you always try to mention "control" of Kespa over some enslaved ones, makes me feel like all americans(sorry for this) got an issue about a "control" thing, I start to receive strange flashbacks of your country recent achievements in rescuing the enslaved from the total control of the bad people.
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On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer.
ret,
wasnt there an article earlier about boxer account of esport development?
he recall early day gamers had to go find their own sponsors etc. sure the b team is miserable right now, but without KeSPA/MBC/OGN, there wont be a B Team.
boxer also predicted that further growth of esport require significant capital investment and government incentives would be required. i m sure as hell no one is stupid enuf to pour capital into a product they clearly do not own in the end. the government especially hates foreign ownership.
GOM clearly do not have the resources to develop esports.
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On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. 
"Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA...
The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda.
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On May 31 2010 23:38 letian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:22 keV. wrote:On May 31 2010 23:14 buhhy wrote:On May 31 2010 22:59 keV. wrote:
To your first point, It is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene AND make the games. My only point was that KeSPA should not be the EXCLUSIVE association that is handling an entire pro-scene.
Lol. If it is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene, then they do not need control of it. End of story. You seem to have misconceptions on what KeSPA is; it's the conglomerate of ALL the corporate sponsors. If a company like Pringles would like to start investing in the progaming scene beyond a tournament, it's going to join KeSPA. The only reason KeSPA is the exclusive association managing the pro-scene is because the market impact of the pro-scene is so small. If there was more interest, more companies would begin sponsoring teams and more associations will emerge. Simple supply and demand. Blizzard just sold broadcast rights to GOM. They won't be handling anything. I understand what KeSPA is, what people don't seem to understand is how much control their position offers. I find it odd people are still making these kind of points when the Blizzard/GOM tournament was spat on by KeSPA just recently. The issue is the indirect control KeSPA wields over the pro-teams and broadcasting. I am sorry, but the way you always try to mention "control" of Kespa over some enslaved ones, makes me feel like all americans(sorry for this) got an issue about a "control" thing, I start to receive strange flashbacks of your country recent achievements in rescuing the enslaved from the total control of the bad people.
Jesus Christ this post is horrible. You guys are fucking terrible at arguing. How many more people are going to come after me because I'm American.
Your English is horrible and your post is a waste of space. Talk about the issues or shove it.
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"I still am amazed people can be OK with the way KeSPA treats players. I really am"
Oh come on, are u serious?, this is their (players) job, do u know what job is?
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I was expecting something more interesting. It feels like KeSPA's response this time was rather weak. Lookin forward to GOM running Starleagues again.
Edit: GOM doesn't need KeSPA to get OGN and MBC on board, and I can't wait for the day people realize this.
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On May 31 2010 23:29 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:18 buhhy wrote:On May 31 2010 22:59 keV. wrote:
Yes, KeSPA has done a great job making money for itself AND promoting the growth of eSports. You have no idea what happened in negotiations, so don't act like you do. Yes, Blizzard wants more control, they've made it clear. They are not the ones hiding behind "the growth of esports" and "the fans." KeSPA wields too much control and personal stake in eSports for them to grow uninhibited.
Yeah, Blizzard has done a great job making money for itself and promoting the growth of ESPORTS. Oh wait... Have you not read the Blizzard interviews? Pretty much every answer somehow references them caring for the fans and promoting ESPORTS. The "hiding" you are talking about it called PR, every company does it. I don't have a defense for that. Conceded. Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:19 Scarecrow wrote:On May 31 2010 22:59 keV. wrote:
Well Australians are fucking stupid.
I only mentioned that i have distaste for how you and some of your compatriots seem to bask in short-sighted corporate greed like it's a virtue. If you're just going to result to insults backed up by blind ignorance and sophistry than I'll leave you to it. The company/pro-team thing was funny though, we should really start calling Federer Nike. So you were insulting me because I'm American, I understand. That is what I said. I was just thinking about how you and some of your Australian brethren have a knack for saying retarded things. I still am amazed people can be OK with the way KeSPA treats players. I really am.
maybe, you are just slow
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On May 31 2010 23:42 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. "Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA... The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda.
You are honestly the worst poster in this whole thread.
At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day. Slavery is in the dictionary, stop being so uptight. We have a black president, its cool.
You know ret lived as a pro-gamer right? Probably not considering you joined this website this year.
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On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:42 Ryo wrote:On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. "Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA... The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda. You are honestly the worst poster in this whole thread. At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day. Slavery is in the dictionary, stop being so uptight. We have a black president, its cool. You know ret lived as a pro-gamer right? Probably not considering you joined this website this year.
Yeah and also when you are unemployed you DONT HAVE MONEY for food and a place to live. At least B-teamers have that.
You really think that with the current world economy in a huge crisis all those hundreds of people playing and working for SC:BW will find a job?
oov's parents couldnt even afford PC BANG FEES.
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On May 31 2010 12:47 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +- KeSPA: KeSPA's and the gaming team's situation is that they wish to have a logical and sensical discussion with Blizzard to negotiate, and that they wish that Blizzard would join the development of eSports as an important game creation company. If Blizzard throw away their domineering attitude and greed and wishes to renegotiate, then KeSPA will help Starcraft 2 and other games to be established as eSports. It's too late. What is there to negotiate about? Blizzard already gave the broadcasting rights to GOM.
sweeeeeeeeet, I was sad when GOM stopped the GOM invitational.
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On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:
At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day.
Is that correct? Even in Western countries, it isn't that uncommon with unemployed youths who play games 12 hours a day...
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On May 31 2010 23:48 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:On May 31 2010 23:42 Ryo wrote:On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. "Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA... The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda. You are honestly the worst poster in this whole thread. At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day. Slavery is in the dictionary, stop being so uptight. We have a black president, its cool. You know ret lived as a pro-gamer right? Probably not considering you joined this website this year. Yeah and also when you are unemployed you DONT HAVE MONEY for food and a place to live. At least B-teamers have that.
I think the point was that living as a pro-gamer only prepares you for living as a pro-gamer. Would you rather have a month of a tight budget while you advance your lifestyle to something considerable? Or just stick to playing BW for 12 a day and when that doesn't work out have absolutely nothing to fall back on because you dropped out of school and haven't worked a real job your whole life.
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On May 31 2010 23:50 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:
At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day.
Is that correct? Even in Western countries, it isn't that uncommon with unemployed youths who play games 12 hours a day...
Touché
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On May 31 2010 23:51 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:48 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:On May 31 2010 23:42 Ryo wrote:On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. "Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA... The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda. You are honestly the worst poster in this whole thread. At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day. Slavery is in the dictionary, stop being so uptight. We have a black president, its cool. You know ret lived as a pro-gamer right? Probably not considering you joined this website this year. Yeah and also when you are unemployed you DONT HAVE MONEY for food and a place to live. At least B-teamers have that. I think the point was that living as a pro-gamer only prepares you for living as a pro-gamer. Would you rather have a month of a tight budget while you advance your lifestyle to something considerable? Or just stick to playing BW for 12 a day and when that doesn't work out have absolutely nothing to fall back on because you dropped out of school and haven't worked a real job your whole life.
You really think that with the current world economy in a huge crisis all those hundreds of people playing and working for SC:BW will find a job?
oov's parents couldnt even afford PC BANG FEES.
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On May 31 2010 23:50 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:
At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day.
Is that correct? Even in Western countries, it isn't that uncommon with unemployed youths who play games 12 hours a day...
There's a difference between playing 12 hours for fun and playing for 12 hours as training.
The physical and psychological stress is different.
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On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:42 Ryo wrote:On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. "Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA... The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda. You are honestly the worst poster in this whole thread. At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day. Slavery is in the dictionary, stop being so uptight. We have a black president, its cool. You know ret lived as a pro-gamer right? Probably not considering you joined this website this year.
Worst poster? Nah, I couldn't possibly take that title from you.
Secondly, I have been unemployed and it sucks as hell. Would I rather be practicing 12 hours a day and have limited social freedoms but have my food and lodging paid for me, yes. Cos unemployment sucks, I couldn't pay my own rent and my family nearly got evicted from our home.
Duh I know who ret is, which is why I said he uses the term slavery so liberally in describing the Korean pro-scene.
When all fails, attack a person for joining the website later than you, so classy.
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I too would love to hear answers to these very same questions KeSPA has, Blizzard. It's all too convenient that you don't even approach the Korean BW scene for all these years, and now you care so much right as you're planning to make/release SC2. The burden of proof is on you here.
This is exactly where Blizzard will fail if it goes to court.
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On May 31 2010 23:51 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 23:48 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:46 keV. wrote:On May 31 2010 23:42 Ryo wrote:On May 31 2010 23:29 ret wrote:On May 31 2010 23:28 SuperArc wrote:On May 31 2010 23:24 ret wrote:
People definately should NOT feel sorry for KeSPa.
Look at how progamers are treated, look at the lives they are living, look what happens to retired progamers, there are tons of 'progamers' out there playing 12 hours a day for years without getting paid...
And then just look at their history and what they have done to companies like GOM etc...
I don't buy any of the stuff KeSPa is saying.
I find it hard to believe that Blizzard/GOM would make things worse for your average B team or Low A team progamer. I think being unemployed is worse than the current conditions. In my opinion it is definately not. Current conditions equal slavery almost. Unemployment leaves room to chase different carreer paths. Which would be best for anyone outside of the top20 players ( 90% of them ), or anyone that doesnt rig matches. "Unemployment leaves room to chase different career paths"... HAHAHA... The fact that you can throw around the term "slavery" so liberally shows that 1) you have no understanding of what real slavery is 2) you are making vast generalizations based on your own biased agenda. You are honestly the worst poster in this whole thread. At least when you are unemployed you aren't practicing BW 12 hours a day. Slavery is in the dictionary, stop being so uptight. We have a black president, its cool. You know ret lived as a pro-gamer right? Probably not considering you joined this website this year. Yeah and also when you are unemployed you DONT HAVE MONEY for food and a place to live. At least B-teamers have that. I think the point was that living as a pro-gamer only prepares you for living as a pro-gamer. Would you rather have a month of a tight budget while you advance your lifestyle to something considerable? Or just stick to playing BW for 12 a day and when that doesn't work out have absolutely nothing to fall back on because you dropped out of school and haven't worked a real job your whole life.
Please keV advance YOUR life to something considerable, leave this thread
p.s I would like to see you telling these words to Boxer or Nada
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So start at age, lets say, 16, you start pro gaming training, 12 hours per day for like 8 years down the road and suddenly brood war died, what skills do you have? your 500 APM obviously will bring you further in life
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EPT
