EPTKeSPA responds to Blizzard - Page 12
| Forum Index > News |
|
ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
| ||
|
ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:23 Zona wrote: Another thing - if Blizzard wanted SC2 to be broadcast on television in South Korea, I think this was entirely the wrong move. Gretech itself doesn't own any channels, just their online broadcast platform, which still has marginal reach compared to actual television channels. And I doubt OGN and MBC will be enthusiastic about broadcasting SC2 on their channels after all that has transpired. I also don't think it's likely that any other companies with television channels will step up, either, as they all lack the specific expertise for broadcasting competitive gaming as well incentive, after seeing many other games fail to succeed on the level of BW. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the demands Blizzard made of Gretech are different from the ones they made of Kespa. I think that is highly unlikely, this is what a lot of people wish were the case because it will play into the theory that blizzard is out to get KeSPA rather than just wanting to secure profits and creative control. It is not very profitable for big companies to hold grudges though or go out of their way to get revenge at someone. If Blizzard made certain non negotiable demands on KeSPA those same demands would go for anyone else wanting the broadcasting rights. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On May 31 2010 21:31 fallingdream wrote: Hahahahaha, so much horseshit it makes me laugh. - 12 programming teams to come together to "strongly oppose" blizz. made me rofl so much, 12 teams? really kespa? try more like 3, sparkyz, mbcheroes and skt, all of the rest don't give 2 shits about you. - oh noes teh fanz!!11 where were the fans you kespa killed gomtv tournaments? you did not only killed the sc tournament, but also the wow and war3 also. what about those fans? - starcraft is blizzards game, deal with it or gtfo. saying it like "well shucks yo, we helped blizz get money because of us", really? and what did kespa get for their work? candy? hmmm I could have sworn they also got big $$$ out of it, silly me. - logical discussion about the growth of esports eh? hmmm, maybe they could care to explain where was the logic behind killing a tournament which hosted and promoted THREE games. I'd love to hear it, hypocrits. - oh noez teh fanz!!! v2.0 Dear kespa, if you weren't so full of shit and throw in the fans when it bests suit you, and if you weren't being so fucking retarded and full of spastic ppl, be it chairman and high executives or the common idiotic referees, maybe I would have believed the shit you say. You know it's people like you who completely make me regret bothering to stay until 4 AM translating this shit, people who's just willing to stay up and wake up and make ignorant, bullshit comments and not read anything else. Holy shit. Get rid of your fucking biases and read or something, cause honestly it's people like you who put in a terrible taste in my mouth and make me think twice how worthwhile it was. So yeah, no thank you for actually reading what I translated. Actually, I probably don't even need to translate for idiots like you because you probably will have an opinion no matter what and not afraid to speak regardless of the facts. | ||
|
Gliche
United States811 Posts
I wonder if it would be true that negotiating with Kespa would limit Gom's future. Kespa is the key to stability while Gom is the key to growth. There needs to be a happy ending to all of this because the amount of bad press coming out now is beginning to be too much for Starcraft to bear. If this drags on, the losers will be us. | ||
|
mustache
Switzerland309 Posts
Why is it a necessity? The Korean scene has been amazing in the promotion of SC1 and SC2 would be the same. Kespa is willing to pay royalties whilst Blizzard spouts clandestine demands for total control far beyond their rights as game designers and their abilities as esport organisers. Blizzard's investment in the Korean scene has been a joke and now they want it all just to make a quick buck. KespA re-invests profits in the scene and functions purely as an advertiser for blizzard and the company's that comprise the pro-teams. It sickens me that Americans like yourself see this greedy, short term power play as glorious. I'll be laughing when Activision-Blizzard shits all over its remaining naive fanboys for the $$$. 1) Stop living in your make believe world. Kespa is around to make money. How is paying B-Teamers no money "re-investing" it into the pro scene? Sounds like they invest in players that earn them money in turn.. 2)Being american has nothing to do with it. Take your strawman arguments elsewhere. Plus Blizz is owned by Vivendi. At least 54%. They're french btw. 3) If blizz shits on its fans it shits on itself. No fans, no money, no blizzard. you'll learn this in school eventually | ||
|
okum
France5778 Posts
| ||
|
Milkis
5003 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:43 mustache wrote: 1) Stop living in your make believe world. Kespa is around to make money. How is paying B-Teamers no money "re-investing" it into the pro scene? Sounds like they invest in players that earn them money in turn.. 2)Being american has nothing to do with it. Take your strawman arguments elsewhere. Plus Blizz is owned by Vivendi. At least 54%. They're french btw. 3) If blizz shits on its fans it shits on itself. No fans, no money, no blizzard. you'll learn this in school eventually Can you people stop talking about B Teamers and pretend that that is a valid point? Not even minor leaguers in baseball/other sports have well paid minor leagues. B Leaguers are there because they want a chance to be an A teamer. Nothing else. | ||
|
FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:38 Milkis wrote: You know it's people like you who completely make me regret bothering to stay until 4 AM translating this shit, people who's just willing to stay up and wake up and make ignorant, bullshit comments and not read anything else. Holy shit. Get rid of your fucking biases and read or something, cause honestly it's people like you who put in a terrible taste in my mouth and make me think twice how worthwhile it was. So yeah, no thank you for actually reading what I translated. Actually, I probably don't even need to translate for idiots like you because you probably will have an opinion no matter what and not afraid to speak regardless of the facts. So if people voice opinions that are opposite of what you believe in, then that is considered offensive to you? Stop being childish. He makes very good points in his post, and you reply with complete ass-whine. Try arguing against his point instead of ass-whining. | ||
|
dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
1. that is how sports work. the pay scale is rigged. there are "B Teamers" in other sports too, we call them bench-warmers. | ||
|
Milkis
5003 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:53 FortuneSyn wrote: So if people voice opinions that are opposite of what you believe in, then that is considered offensive to you? Stop being childish. He makes very good points in his post, and you reply with complete ass-whine. Try arguing against his point instead of ass-whining. Opposite? Nothing to do with that. The point is it's clear he didn't even bother spending time reading everything I translated and just jumped to some minor points with retarded assumptions. | ||
|
Teddyman
Finland362 Posts
I would like to see some clarification on what exactly is a communal property. KeSPA seems to like comparing progaming to soccer, but soccer's rules are essentially public domain and can't be compared to a commercial video game. They say ESPORTS can't succeed if it's done for profit but they are essentially doing it for the profit of their partners. The Korean progaming industry is huddled too tightly together under this name, which is misleading. Korean e-Sports Players Association represents pretty much everyone but the players themselves. It seems that KeSPA cannot demonstrate that it got proper permission from Blizzard to broadcast BW. They seem unwilling to do anything to change the current state except to pay royalties. Also they might be exaggerating the benefit Blizzard has received from esports in Korea. Blizzard is coming into the mess late, and seems to be asking a lot for such a later comer. Their terms might include uncomfortable terms for the industry, such as requiring SC2 leagues to be run if BW leagues are to continue. They might ask for control over sponsors and reject ones that they see as their competitors like Avalon, Lost Saga or Batoo. Unlike some KeSPA members like OnGameNet and MBCGame, they aren't risking a significant portion of their business in this venture. Blizzard had a chance earlier to approach KeSPA and strike a deal on only BW rights, but might intentionally have delayed until SC2 was launching to get better leverage in the negotiations. Now Blizz has pretty much retreated from the whole deal and left GomTV to negotiate. Interestingly enough the Q&A session was much more interesting than the KeSPA release itself. | ||
|
keV.
United States3214 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:34 Scarecrow wrote: Pringles or any other starleague sponsor has supported esports about as much as Blizzard has. Supporting tourneys is enough for an amateur scene but in terms of the professionals blizzard has done next to nothing. Gom was putting too much of a burden on player schedules with 3 leagues and proleague all running so something had to go and web television was the clear 3rd. To your first point, It is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene AND make the games. My only point was that KeSPA should not be the EXCLUSIVE association that is handling an entire pro-scene. Like I said, as long as sponsors can turn a buck, Pringles, and others will be glad to make an investment, KeSPA isn't the reason sponsors turn profit. To say that they are the only ones who could make this model work is just stupid. Secondly, too much of a burden for 80000 USD? Give me a break. That is twice what they pay OSL winners. Until now. You can verify KeSPA control over esports is better than Blizzard/GOM can you? I don't think you can. Why is it a necessity? The Korean scene has been amazing in the promotion of SC1 and SC2 would be the same. Kespa is willing to pay royalties whilst Blizzard spouts clandestine demands for total control far beyond their rights as game designers and their abilities as esport organisers. Yes, KeSPA has done a great job making money for itself AND promoting the growth of eSports. You have no idea what happened in negotiations, so don't act like you do. Yes, Blizzard wants more control, they've made it clear. They are not the ones hiding behind "the growth of esports" and "the fans." KeSPA wields too much control and personal stake in eSports for them to grow uninhibited. Blizzard's investment in the Korean scene has been a joke and now they want it all just to make a quick buck. KespA re-invests profits in the scene and functions purely as an advertiser for blizzard and the company's that comprise the pro-teams. Blizzard didn't have the time or the money in 1998 to "invest" into the Korean scene. No game company has that kind of control. Now they are actually in position to. I think they want to make a much more long-term and larger buck actually. KeSPA promotes itself amd it's sponsors, no on else. They have NO interest in what is best for the players. (You know, the ONLY reason eSports even exists). You people should really stop calling them pro-teams and start calling them Samsung and KT and MBC. That's what they are. It sickens me that Americans like yourself see this greedy, short term power play as glorious. I'll be laughing when Activision-Blizzard shits all over its remaining naive fanboys for the $$$. Well Australians are fucking stupid. I'll be laughing while you read this amazing Ad hominem attack this thread has been so fond of. | ||
|
Belano
Sweden657 Posts
| ||
|
Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
| ||
|
abrasion
Australia722 Posts
| ||
|
clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On May 31 2010 16:19 Scarecrow wrote: I cannot believe the number of people on TL siding with blizzard trying to secure further SC2 sales through the destruction of pro-BW. It will likely be another wc3, there will be no professional league and esports will go back to the dark ages if Blizzard has it's way. Kotick is just looking to exploit the scene in the short term to sell a bunch of expansions. It would be so great to have another wc3 in its prime! You just don't know shit. It had it all except maybe long term TV broadcasting, but that was due to demand(well few tried that in Germany, but it failed and sc2 will do so again if they try). And Blizzard of course. Concerning entertainment for the fans it was way better than broodwar for atleast 2 years. Much more and more diverse tournaments/leagues, an international scene bw can still only dream of, I just can't think of anything it lacked in its prime compared to broodwar, except ugly silver jackets maybe. They do not add any fun for me, though. wc3 did so good... Too good for Blizzard. When wc3 really flourished sc2 was announced(coincidence lol) and wc3 was crippled on purpose by patches. Not patching obvious flaws like the blademaster but adding patches that just make old replays unwatchable(added new banner system FU blizz). They did everything to make the game less enjoyable, they wanted to because wc3 had to die in order to make way for sc2. It's not that the wc3 scene was too bad or not professional enough, it was too good to continue. Blizz learned from their bw-mistake. They just did not repeat it with wc3, that's all. And they will repeat the same they did to wc3, as soon as their next rts is in the making, and sc2 has to make way. | ||
|
Talic_Zealot
688 Posts
| ||
|
KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
| ||
|
johnlee
United States242 Posts
On May 31 2010 15:39 Milkis wrote: Regarding Intellectual Property Rights Q: Blizzard claims that game usage in leagues is not a communal right but something under intellectual property. What do you think about this? - While the game is owned by the company, the game is different from eSports. eSports only has game as the subject matter, it does not evolve around just the players but as a spectator sport, and thus a culture that needs many workers and their efforts and skills. It was already recognized in China as an official sport, and last year in the Asians games it was recognized as an official sport, and so it is something that is evolving as a sport globally - Sports is not just for/owned by the "Manias" (T/N: Fans really involved in it. Think "Otaku") or special organizations. It has a communal property where normal spectators can watch and be involved in. - If eSports is not a communal property and belongs to an international company called Blizzard, then the entire eSports industry in Korea and the existance of KeSPA becomes wrong from the beginning. All recognition and gains as a culture and sponsorship from Airforce etc disappears. - Sports needs to guarantee Public Viewing, and so it has a communal property. eSports cannot just be approached simply as Blizzard's promotion logic. - There are many examples such as the CGS event that shows that no matter how much you invest in, if it's done for personal gain then you cannot suceed %%CGS Event: Refers to Championship Gaming Series created by Direct TV where they hired many players , but upon discovering that it was not profitable, dropped support and many players were left unpaid. Q: Does KeSPA does not recognize Blizzard's IP rights at all? - Fundamentally Sports are not something to be tackled using Intellectual Property. Does Adidas that makes Soccer demand usage fees from the World cup? Much like this, Car Companies do not ask for usage fees from racing car contests. - Without considering IP rights, Blizzard has been one of the greatest benefactors from growth of Korean eSports. Through Korean eSports, Starcraft 1 sales went up considerably and the product life cycle lengthened, along with other many benefits. The game leagues operated by KeSPA uses official products. - Even with all this, KeSPA has announced from the early days of negotiations that we wish to recognize the rights of Blizzard due to Starcraft and has made it clear that they would pay a modest game usage fee to Blizzard. Q: To KeSPA, where are the boundaries of IP rights? - IP rights are there as the basic rights of Game Creation companies. - But Blizzard demands that organizations get permission for contract time needed for a safe operation of eSports, Sponsor and Marketing plans, Broadcasting plans, and royalties from broadcasting and sponsorships which is beyond game usage fees, and sub license fees. - KeSPA believes that this is an unjust interference with operations, and also an unbeneficial negotiation setting as this goes beyond the scope of IP rights, and can see it as a poisonous article that shrinks the investment by corporations. - While the situation already seems like it's about IP rights, but rather than a problem with IP rights, Blizzard shows extreme greed that is beyond common sense and in order to accomplish this Blizzard is shaking the future of Korean eSports. Hey, thanks for the translation of this whole thing. Must've taken quite a while. Fuck, reading about this shit keeps making me raged and raged. I don't usually side with KeSPA but Blizzard is going way out of line here. The fuck are they doing? Some people are saying, "It's okay! Blizzard made their game. Now they want "rights" to the game and monitor tournaments! Surely they can do that!" That's such naivete. Blizzard is merely a company that made the game. They will get the profit from the people buying the game and perhaps from expansions. But for Blizzard to take over the eSports scene makes them something greater than a game company, a status that they don't deserve. It was KeSPA that made Starcraft as a professional sport, not Blizzard. It was the Korean culture that made Starcraft as a professional sport, not Blizzard. Blizzard, you made one hell of a game. No one will argue with that. But you stay the fuck away from being the facillitators of making the game a part of eSports. Does Bungie Studios try to "demand that organizations get permission for contract time needed for a safe operation of eSports, Sponsor and Marketing plans, Broadcasting plans, and royalties from broadcasting and sponsorships which is beyond game usage fees, and sub license fees." for people playing Halo in tournaments? No. And neither should you, fucking Blizzard. The Professionalism of Starcraft and Starcraft 2 will die under your mediation. | ||
|
buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On May 31 2010 22:59 keV. wrote: To your first point, It is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene AND make the games. My only point was that KeSPA should not be the EXCLUSIVE association that is handling an entire pro-scene. Lol. If it is not their responsibility to handle a professional scene, then they do not need control of it. End of story. You seem to have misconceptions on what KeSPA is; it's the conglomerate of ALL the corporate sponsors. If a company like Pringles would like to start investing in the progaming scene beyond a tournament, it's going to join KeSPA. The only reason KeSPA is the exclusive association managing the pro-scene is because the market impact of the pro-scene is so small. If there was more interest, more companies would begin sponsoring teams and more associations will emerge. Simple supply and demand. | ||
| ||
