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[OSL] Semi-Final: Flash vs Pure

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[OSL] Semi-Final: Flash vs Pure

Text byWaxangel
May 10th, 2010 08:18 GMT
[image loading]
Banner by SilverskY

by WaxAngel and KwarK

What a week it was for Brood War fans! In Proleague, CJ and MBCGame duked it out in the no-love-lost rematch of the 2006 Round Two Finals, while SK and KT went at each other in a continuation of their storied rivalry. In the individual leagues, we found out one half of the Korean Air OSL Finals card, while over at MBCGame the Hana Daetoo Securities MSL semi-final card was determined. It was a good week indeed, but there was a touch of somberness for TeamLiquid OSL team (all two of us).

Simply, we cannot deny: The MSL is the better league. Rebounding from a fiasco of epic proportions, they have for the second season running an incredible semi-final card, and have had some of the best games of the year played so far. And so we sighed at the possibility of a Jaedong vs Flash final in the MSL, while we waited for Flash to inevitably win the OSL in the meanwhile.

In the midst of our melancholy, there was one little thing that cheered us up. The Korean Air Starleague finals are going to take place in a f***ing aircraft hangar. What's MBCGame gonna do to match that, hold their final in the middle of a stock exchange?

[image loading]
There's only one move MBCGame can make in response: Hold their final in a power plant. Or maybe just somewhere warm.
Yes, I stole this joke from a few dozen people.


Anyway, we spent all of our ridiculous hype energy last week, so we shall be content with just results, and more results until we know who is in the finals.




Semi Final Battlereports
by KwarK

Lee Young Ho ((T)Flash) vs Park Se Jung ((P)Pure)

Game One - Great Barrier Reef

+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Pure spawned in orange at 8 while Flash got green at 4 on Great Barrier Reef. Pure opted for a 12 nex which I like because he's not going to be beating Flash with some kind of early cheese, or in a straightup game. Of course, he won't be beating him in a macro game either but that's not his fault so you can't blame him for trying the 12 nex. Amusingly enough Flash was so sure that Pure would 12 nex that he only checked the naturals before moving on with his scouting SCV, although he had to wait till his last try to find Pure. Flash immediately opted for an scv marine vulture break but Pure was prepared for it, having placed a pylon at his natural to add a quick shield battery with two zealots to hold.

Flash attempted to bunker but Pure defended competently, not microing perfectly but still making the right choices to give himself the means to hold it off. Although Pure lost a lot of probes he killed a considerable number of scvs as well, and he had two nexuses to replenish his workers. More importantly he was scouting Flash's main while he held off the rush, and discovered that Flash was taking his own natural rather than opting for some kind of allin. This meant Pure could macro hard without worrying about an imminent attack. As strange as this sounds, Pure's opening actually worked, he'd outplayed Flash and earned a considerable advantage.

Flash sieged up his natural and added a quick third command center to fly out to his back third, exploiting Great Barrier Reefs ridiculous five bases that can be held from a single cliff. Pure sensed that Flash was going to turtle and macro and did the same, quickly adding his own back third expansion. More importantly, Pure also sent a probe in a shuttle up to the island expansion at 2 which if taken unscouted could win him the game. He certainly had no delusions about the type of advantage he'd need to beat Flash, and he looked capable of getting it. Unfortunately for him the shuttle passed over a vulture checking other expansions at the top, Flash immediately giving it a mental flag and sending a floating ebay up to scout it. Seeing the scouting E-bay flying in, Pure wisely decided against expanding at 2. Maybe Flash would have sent that ebay anyway but I think Pure got unlucky there.

Flash's base at 6 was relatively undefended with a single tank and Pure tried to get something going there with a speedshuttle and two reavers, but Flash immediately reinforced it and the reavers were forced to fly away doing no damage due to stupid scarab syndrome. Pure realized a macro game was inevitable and took 12 while Flash continued to expand along his cliff line, taking his mineral only. Both players headed for the late game, Flash with his trademark fast armoury, and Pure with an unusually fast forge and carrier tech. Pure tried a delaying 4 zealot drop in Flash's main, but he only ended up revealing he had yet to finish Zealot speed. After cleaning up easily, Flash immediately tried to push up to 12. A reaver drop in the Terran natural bought a little time and got a few scv kills but it wasn't enough. Pure's mass dragoon he'd been making all game met the vultures head on with success but as the tanks sieged up behind, Pure found himself desperately needing zealot speed. He did have a lot of zealots, having made a standard transition into pure zealots with four high templar in a shuttle.

Pure was forced to engage early and came very close to beating Flash, even without zealot speed. Three of his four shuttle high templar were immediately sniped, both because zealots weren't mixed up in Flash's forces to draw fire and because Flash was deliberately targetting them. Without the storms and zealots to bring down the tanks, the dragoon heart of the army melted and Flash won the day. Flash's remaining army simply pushed over all of Pure's defenseless bases and newly produced carriers to earn the GG.

I know I'm mean to Pure because, well, he deserves it usually, but I was actually impressed here. Throughout the game Pure demonstrated a knowledge of how we was going to win. There was the aim, Flash losing, the means, carrier, dragoon, ht off five bases, and the route, FE into scouting and very hard macro. It's important to stress just how important that is because what it meant was that Pure was focused, everything he did that game was built around getting to that one point where he could win the game. There were some nice attempts at tactics to get him there, like going for the island expansion, but the overall strategy didn't rely on them. Zealot speed had been nearly done, and the main battle really was very close. If Pure had broken even in that battle he would have been on five bases with the full tech tree and carriers, dragoons and ht. I honestly believe that with zealot speed done Pure could have won this game. The strategy wasn't original but at every stage, bar zealot speed, Pure had exactly what he needed. The discipline to not get surplus stuff just because you can is as impressive as the macro and multitasking to get what you do need. Flash just saw a 12 nex, tried to do early damage, failed, sat in his corner camping, moved out, won. Yes, he's really good at it and he pushed out at the exact right timing but still, it felt somewhat like a default option after he failed early game.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 4 of 5
Flash gets a 4 simply because his game was so uninspiring. He failed early game and just pulled back to his default camp and upgrade mindset. For a game played by Flash it felt very average, still very good Starcraft but not a 5.

Pure: 4 of 5
I'm giving Pure a 4 because he's come the closest to looking like he might beat Flash's PvT straightup since the last OSL finals. Obviously the lack of zealot speed is a huge mistake but being kicked out of the OSL should be punishment enough for that. No need to add me giving him a 3 to his troubles (Wax: If only we could hurt progamers' feelings directly. If only.)

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 3.5 of 5
Standard Flash dominance, while Pure did surprisingly well without actually having a chance.


Game Two - Eye of the Storm

+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash spawned in purple at 11 while Pure got yellow at 5 on Eye of the Storm. Pure again went 13 nex, with Flash scouting it late as he mis-read two scouting peons crossing at at 7 as meaning Pure was at 1. This meant he actually scouted the 13 nex last in spite of cross positions, although just as in game one, Flash demonstrated he was fairly sure Pure would 13 nex anyway and only scouted the naturals. Flash responded with a late expansion of his own after factory and four marines letting Pure reap the maximum advantage of his 13 nex. Flash switched into macro and camp mode, starting a third cc in the top right of his base to fly to 12 while fortifying his ramp while Pure took 3. Strangely enough Flash didn't even attempt basic map control with vultures the way many players would, prefering to go pure tanks.

Pure sent his army to check 12, saw it was untaken and pulled back seconds before the cc flew into view, missing his opportunity out of bad luck more than anything else. He probably couldn't have ganked the cc but tank support hadn't moved in yet. When an observer scouted 12 thirty seconds later he saw the expansion but Flash had walled up the chokes with depots. Pure made a nice attempt to break it, battering the wall down with mass dragoons while a bulldogging shuttle pulled a lot of tank fire. He killed several tanks and scvs before more tanks arrived to force Pure away. Even so, Pure did a decent amount of damage with the attack. In the mean time Pure had set himself up for the late game with arbiter tech, ten or so gateways and a fourth base at 6. His 13 nexus had allowed him to completely skip the early game and use a single dragoon attack to distract Flash through the midgame, setting himself up for the late game early.

However Flash understood the situation just as well and decided against his usual 2 armory strategy, instead making nine factories for a hanbang rush. Flash pulled every unit he had, including his stationary defence, and massed into a giant blob to cross the map. Cross position slow pushes on Eye of the Storm are difficult and Flash got around that by going for an allin tornado push. Pure immediately divided his forces, one half pushing at the undefended 12 while the other half threatened to go for Flash's natural and rally point, forcing Flash's push to turn around. This is brilliant because Pure knows that any units coming out of Flash's factories will be outnumbered and destroyed by his army while if Flash ignores it and tries to do the same to his gateways he can just make dts while killing the comsats. Flash's early nine factory allin comes at the expense of vessels and Pure surely recognized this fact when he neglected the safety of his main.

Flash blinked first, turning his army around to block the flank towards his main and then sending his entire army to relieve 12 where the dragoons were picking off scvs. Although he was able to clean it up he was still being considerably outmined, now at two and a half bases against four while Pure already had arbiters out. Pure simultaneously expanded to both 1 and 7 so whichever direction Flash pushed in would be the wrong direction. Having defended 12, Flash immediately pushed again, and the two armies clashed in the middle of the map. They traded units in a roughly even battle, and the survivors somehow decided to run past each other, the surviving half of Pure's army heading north to 12 while Flash's went for 3. Flash was able to break the pylon wall at 3 but before he could kill the nexus the pressure at 12 forced him to pull his army back. Every probe and scv at 3 and 12 died became casualties of total war, but the advantageous terrain at 12 let Flash re-secure it fairly easily. While Flash relieved 12, Pure was unable to safely mine 3 before Flash cut it off with his next major push headed towards Pure's natural.

Both players flooded Pure's natural with units, and unfortunately for Pure, Flash's superior macro and combat micro meant he was able to take an excellent position right outside the choke-wall. Another counterattack on the undefended 12 killed yet more scvs, rendering Flash truly all-in with only a few workers and two of his three bases near mined out against the six bases of Pure. However Flash had taken position on all of Pure's gateways, as Pure had been very late in building gateways at his other bases.

Pure tried to decentralize his production with a lot of investment in both the 1 and 7 bases. However, he also continued to suicide the units produced at his main into the meatgrinder at his main choke. Flash solidified the contain at Pure's natural with turrets and depots, leaving Pure cut off from his expansions. Vultures hit 3 while tanks hit 6 before the belated gateways at 1 and 7 had time to kick in. Pure wasted his last two arbiters trying to break out of his natural again and when that failed Flash was able to roll over 7, forcing a GG.

This was a very tense, very scrappy game. Flash reacted badly to Pure's build, letting Pure play the way he wanted. It was only when Pure was already in the late game that Flash seemed to wake up and realise that he would suddenly playing 3 bases vs 6 with no map control, cross positions, against arbiters. His allin was a ballsy decision, as was the decision to tornado, but I don't think he should have won. Pure needed to either go two stargate arbiters or have far more ht. He simply wasn't mining enough gas from his expansions. At no point in that game was Flash really comfortable and I think at the end if Pure had recalled his army out of his main and retaken map control, fuelled by the new gateways and income at 1 and 7, he still would have been in it. It was only the mass suicides into the fortified defense at 4 that finally put the game beyond his reach. An impressive game by Pure and an uninspiring game by Flash. The kid can macro but strategically and tactically he was outplayed here. That's not to say Pure's strategy was brilliant (it was basically 13 nex, win) but a passive counterexpansion and a third is pretty much the worst way to play against that. Flash won this with an allin and some excellent macro but he made it hard work for himself, and if Pure had improved his army composition (Wax: or been 10% better at macro and micro) a little he could have taken game 2.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Game of the Week
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 4 of 5
Pure: 4 of 5

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 3.5 of 5
Flash actually had to work for the win, which is always a pleasant surprise. Pure played well, but you could speculate that a better player could have won from his advantageous position.


Game Three - Match Point

+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Pure spawned in blue at 7 while Flash got Purple at 1 on Match Point. Pure opted for a 13 nex while Flash did a standard depot-rax-gas-factory opening. Because he got to scout Pure on the first try, rather than last like the game before, he was able to take his own expansion much faster with just one marine and a building vulture rather than four marines and a tank like the last game. Pure threw his first zealot at Flash to try and delay the building cc but only stopped it for a few seconds as Flash had kept his vulture back for defence.

Flash started a quick third behind the minerals of his mineral natural while pumping vultures with mines out of his single factory. Despite seeing the mines go down Pure managed to lose a dragoon to the probing vultures. He responded to the light vulture pressure with four quick gateways and a later mineral natural which put him behind as Flash didn't have the factories to put on any real pressure after the vultures. He was just faking and banking on the late observers a 13 nex gives to keep his 1 fac 3 base a secret. It worked well, and by the time Pure knew what was up Flash had four factories and an armoury coming. Although Pure was already building his first arbiter, Flash was still ahead.

Both players took their fourth bases at 11 and 5 respectively and added gateways and factories to mass units once those expansions kicked in. Pure also successfully took the 12:00 expansion, getting cannons up before vultures could arrive to thwart it. Pure moved his army to attack the lightly defended 5:00 from the southern ramp, and used stasis field to block the northern ramp when Flash tried to come and reinforce. While Pure did stop the mining for some time, he failed to kill the CC as Flash had lifted it almost immediately, and got bad value for his money overall because of tank fire from the low ground. Pure followed it up with an expansion at 6 while Flash pushed to 12.

A small push of just three tanks and a handful of vultures were able to take a good position on the 12 base as Pure was still way out of position from the previous attack. Although Pure took care of it when his troops returned, his carelessness saw him take heavy troop losses to a minefield while the mining probes were already long dead. Still having a short term resource advantage Pure tried to quickly switch to carriers, hoping to get them done in time to defend at least one of the neutral expansions. As Flash pushed towards 6, Pure caught Flash out of position and spread too far, and smashed up onto the high ground outside 5:00 with a lot of stasis, dragoons and zealots to take out a chunk of Flash's army. It looked like a victory at first, but Pure turned the tables on himself by pushing into the previously out-of-position tanks in the back.

Flash ended up with a big material advantage, and his victorious army, reinforced by nine factories, pushed up the middle of the map and besieged Pure's mineral only while mass vultures attacked the expansion at 11. Having halted the mining at two bases, Flash moved on to remove 12:00 as well. Pure finally showed his handful of carriers, more than capable of destroying Flash's predominantly ground army, but Flash had sufficient units to suicide the 12:00 base.

Pure's ground army destroyed Flash at 5, while Flash's 9 factory pure goliath reinforcements were able to drive back the underfunded carrier fleet and destroy both the mineral only and 11. This left Flash on just a single nearly mined out mineral expansion while Pure had a very undersaturated expansion at 6 and not enough money for interceptors. Flash was able to use his temporary map control to take 12 and 11 while Pure was unable to transfer any probes to 6, making him unable to pay the costly interceptor upkeep. The carriers were able to snipe the CC at 11:00 in a desperation move, but when they went to 12 they were surrounded by goliaths and destroyed. GG.

Pure showed his carriers twenty seconds too late imo. His transition was great, yet another game he could realistically have won. Pure sacrificed his ground reinforcements for carriers which would be able to save his expansions for just long enough for him to snowball. It was a calculated moment of weakness to avoid an inevitable defeat to mass tanks. But the carriers arrived just too late to save the probes at 11 and Flash was able to suicide tanks to finish off the nexus at 12. With only three goliaths accompanying the mech Pure could have sent his two carriers to start working on the tanks instead of waiting for four. As it was Flash was able to do just enough damage before the carriers kicked in leaving Pure without the economy to reinforce his carriers with dragoons or even a full compliment of interceptors. Still, it was another close game with Flash losing his own expansions and economy at the same time, only just holding out.

I feel Pure upped his game in this series to a more respectable level, borderline good, while Flash for me has shown uncharacteristically poor decision making in all three games. The other aspects of his game, particularly the macro, have all been top notch which is why he still gets 4s but Flash playing this badly (by his standards) makes me worry slightly for how he'll fare against Kal.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Kwark's Player Ratings
Flash: 4 of 5
Pure: 4 of 5

WaxAngel's Match Rating: 3 of 5
Typical domination from Flash, no chance for Pure this time. I read this game different from Kwark; Pure attacking Flash's expansions with his carriers was basically a desperation move since Pure himself had no way of taking any new bases.


Game Four - Fighting Spirit

+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash won the series 3-0


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Flash won the series 3-0


Game Five - Great Barrier Reef

+ Show Spoiler [Battle Report] +
Flash won the series 3-0


+ Show Spoiler [Match Ratings] +
Flash won the series 3-0


Coming up....


As neither Kal nor Effort have played the relevant matchup in the last week, we stick to our previous prediction.



Semi-Final - May 14th
(Z)EffOrt vs (P)Kal
<Great Barrier Reef>
<Eye of the Storm>
<Match Point>
<Fighting Spirit>
<Great Barrier Reef>


[image loading]
Brackets by SilverskY + thanks to Motbob


Congratulations to Flash for making it to the Korean Air OnGameNet Starleague final! It's pretty much gone exactly as the prophecy has foretold, and he's just one step away from being the youngest golden mouse winner (and just a few more steps away from becoming the next Bonjwa).

And congratulations are due to Pure for making the top four, and putting on a good performance in the semi-finals. Although the OSL team has never given Pure much love, we respect him a ton for making Flash work hard for the victory. It might not sound like much of a compliment, but Flash is a player Korean fans are jokingly calling a "god," and it takes a lot of guts and skill to make that kind of player look less than perfect. We hope to see more from Pure in the Proleague, and wish him success in becoming a dual-leaguer again next season.


In-flight entertainment...

Today, we actually have a movie. Watch it on a tiny screen with some dinky headphones for the full Korean Air experience.

The movie is called: "The Best Game of 2010 So Far"
Starring: Gu Seung Hoon (Hiya), Yoon Yong Tae (Free).
Directed by: Hana Daetoo Securities MSL.

Yes, it's from our rivals over at the MSL, but this game is not only too good to miss, but it would be a crime not advertise it through every venue available to me.
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AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Fr33t
Profile Joined June 2008
United States1128 Posts
May 10 2010 08:34 GMT
#2
Bonjwa? Really? What? x.x
"Wow you could literally transport Lomo's face to a girl and the result would be pretty deceptive."
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
May 10 2010 08:40 GMT
#3
Wax you very well may of started a firestorm by using the B word.

I approve of it, good write up. Though I am curious how many more steps does it take to get to that level? Seems like he really is a god when you think about it.
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
10or10
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden517 Posts
May 10 2010 08:50 GMT
#4
On May 10 2010 17:18 Waxangel wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I feel Pure upped his game in this series to a more respectable level, borderline good, while Flash for me has shown uncharacteristically poor decision making in all three games. The other aspects of his game, particularly the macro, have all been top notch which is why he still gets 4s but Flash playing this badly (by his standards) makes me worry slightly for how he'll fare against Kal.


Prediction, or have you been in the future?

Thank you for the write-up.
|| @10or10 || 이영호 이제동 - 화이팅 ^^ ||
Lazerbeems
Profile Joined May 2010
151 Posts
May 10 2010 08:53 GMT
#5
Agreed, while it was overall a smackdown but Flash's play wasn't playing particularly "good"...funnily enough, its still better than any other terran's TvP in this day and age.

Guess the lack of preparation is a result of being in so many individual leagues.
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 08:55:51
May 10 2010 08:54 GMT
#6
I think we can call flash a bonjwa if he wins the osl this season. Even if he loses msl, he still will be a bonjwa.

On May 10 2010 17:53 Lazerbeems wrote:
Agreed, while it was overall a smackdown but Flash's play wasn't playing particularly "good"...funnily enough, its still better than any other terran's TvP in this day and age.

Guess the lack of preparation is a result of being in so many individual leagues.

Its pure, a mediocre protoss very similar to backho. Flash doesn't need to play outstanding to beat him. Hes saving his secret move for kal if he advances =D.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33337 Posts
May 10 2010 08:57 GMT
#7
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
luckybeni2
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1065 Posts
May 10 2010 09:00 GMT
#8
I just saw the 2007 OSL where ggplay won and I have to say there is not much left of the once so prestigious Starleague. In the round of 8 they had Stork, Flash, Bisu, GGplay, Iris, Hwasin, Savior and Reach. And what do we have today? You have Flash and Kal and that is the only final that could be close. I think that is a reason why we see so many golden mice recently and I think Proleague is the only tournament that cept it's old prestige.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
May 10 2010 09:20 GMT
#9
I really like the format of these posts, cool writeup

You really loved that free vs hiya game didn't you mister
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9560 Posts
May 10 2010 09:37 GMT
#10
Very nice writeup, enjoyed reading it!
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/4JknvV
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42520 Posts
May 10 2010 09:38 GMT
#11
On May 10 2010 17:50 10or10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 17:18 Waxangel wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I feel Pure upped his game in this series to a more respectable level, borderline good, while Flash for me has shown uncharacteristically poor decision making in all three games. The other aspects of his game, particularly the macro, have all been top notch which is why he still gets 4s but Flash playing this badly (by his standards) makes me worry slightly for how he'll fare against Kal.


Prediction, or have you been in the future?

Thank you for the write-up.

Well I would have said his questionable TvP made me worry about how he'll do vs Effort but that wouldn't have made any sense.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
May 10 2010 10:02 GMT
#12
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.


you don't think jaedong has a case?

flash hasn't been on top for even a year yet
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
rockon1215
Profile Joined May 2009
United States612 Posts
May 10 2010 10:25 GMT
#13
On May 10 2010 19:02 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.


you don't think jaedong has a case?

flash hasn't been on top for even a year yet

If it's a JD vs. Flash finals, winner is bonjwa.
Flash v Jaedong The finals that is ALWAYS meant to be
rugmonkey
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom126 Posts
May 10 2010 10:27 GMT
#14
Flash is dominating.
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 10:35:16
May 10 2010 10:33 GMT
#15
Well it was 3-0 for Flash and you give both players the same ratings! Something doesn't sound right...
For me the only game in balance was the 2nd. Pure had 2 chances to kill the CC at the 12 but failed to focus fire on the CC. He was distracted by vultures..
The 1st and the 3rd game were excellent timing pushes from Flash! He didn't loose any battle and he attacked multiple basses simultaneously! (only Flash seems capable to do this)
The conclusion: Don't go carriers against Flash!
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33337 Posts
May 10 2010 10:37 GMT
#16
On May 10 2010 19:02 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.


you don't think jaedong has a case?

flash hasn't been on top for even a year yet


I like Jaedong personally, but bonjwa is very much about consensus, spoken and unspoken. I think that if Flash wins both MSL and OSL, most Korean fans are probably gonna go "yeah he's bonjwa."
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42520 Posts
May 10 2010 10:47 GMT
#17
On May 10 2010 19:33 p14c wrote:
Well it was 3-0 for Flash and you give both players the same ratings! Something doesn't sound right...
For me the only game in balance was the 2nd. Pure had 2 chances to kill the CC at the 12 but failed to focus fire on the CC. He was distracted by vultures..
The 1st and the 3rd game were excellent timing pushes from Flash! He didn't loose any battle and he attacked multiple basses simultaneously! (only Flash seems capable to do this)
The conclusion: Don't go carriers against Flash!

There's a lot of room within 4. It's hard to deny that Pure was playing above average for a progamer. It's also difficult to argue that Flash was playing at his best when his strategy was so poor in the first two games. Unless you want to start getting into half stars they can both be 4.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 10 2010 11:02 GMT
#18
Ooooh...I like Bonjwa talk
Jaedong :3
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
May 10 2010 11:20 GMT
#19
This is silly.

It's pretty obvious that Jaedong is bonjwa.

Flash, on the other hand, is a step above bonjwa. =P


When they meet anything can happen, however.
Oh, my eSports
Wings
Profile Joined January 2010
United States999 Posts
May 10 2010 11:28 GMT
#20
I personally think this thread should just be about Free vs Hiya, cuz Flash v Pure was nothing compared to that.

Or maybe that's just me.

Hiya for Bonjwa. Why play like Flash when you can play like Hiya.
The probability of Kim Carrier getting all those predictions wrong is similar to the probability Flash loses a TvT. Kim Carrier MUST BE a genius. His only big mistake... STORK.
HopLight
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden999 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 11:57:19
May 10 2010 11:56 GMT
#21
On May 10 2010 19:25 rockon1215 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 19:02 danl9rm wrote:
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.


you don't think jaedong has a case?

flash hasn't been on top for even a year yet

If it's a JD vs. Flash finals, winner is bonjwa.


Nope, even if JD wins, consecutive double finals trumps that. It is an achievement that will probably never be broken. That said looking back a few years from now it is entirely possible that both will be considered Bonjwa due to their combined utter dominance of BW the last couple of years.

I also object to the bad rep OSL is getting, we should be seeing a Flash vs Kal Finals which is pretty much the second most awesome MU we could see in a finals (the first should be obvious).
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
May 10 2010 12:14 GMT
#22
Can you edit the spoiler out of the title? I haven't watched all the games yet >_>
u gotta sk8
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
May 10 2010 12:58 GMT
#23
Oh no I see the Bword.
Flash for the OSL, Jaedong for the MSL.
Nice writeup, yo.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21242 Posts
May 10 2010 13:28 GMT
#24
Flash inevitably winning the OSL? Kal begs to differ >:O
TranslatorBaa!
SoManyDeadLings
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada255 Posts
May 10 2010 13:29 GMT
#25
World's most one-sided semi EVER.
wsrgry
nozaro33
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Taiwan1819 Posts
May 10 2010 13:57 GMT
#26
Go Flash go Pure! Hope Pure can also have a strong performance next OSL!
#1 Flash / #2 NaDa / #3 Stats fan / KT fan for life
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
May 10 2010 14:06 GMT
#27
On May 10 2010 22:29 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
World's most one-sided semi EVER.


I thought Jaedong vs Much semi was very one sided.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
May 10 2010 14:35 GMT
#28
On May 10 2010 19:25 rockon1215 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 19:02 danl9rm wrote:
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.


you don't think jaedong has a case?

flash hasn't been on top for even a year yet

If it's a JD vs. Flash finals, winner is bonjwa.



They've done it, you know..
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42520 Posts
May 10 2010 14:38 GMT
#29
On May 10 2010 23:06 jpak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 22:29 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
World's most one-sided semi EVER.


I thought Jaedong vs Much semi was very one sided.

Pure did way better this time than Kal did vs JD last MSL.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Yggdrasil Leaf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
221 Posts
May 10 2010 14:50 GMT
#30
"Flash gets a 4 simply because his game was so uninspiring. "

This kind of opinions... I mean... seriously?
whatever.
"A person hears only what they understand" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
PangO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Chile1870 Posts
May 10 2010 15:16 GMT
#31
On May 10 2010 23:06 jpak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 22:29 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
World's most one-sided semi EVER.


I thought Jaedong vs Much semi was very one sided.

True, Pure did well after all
In Economics, the majority is always wrong. aka: MattRz
din
Profile Joined October 2009
Hungary27 Posts
May 10 2010 15:23 GMT
#32
On May 10 2010 20:20 QibingZero wrote:

It's pretty obvious that Jaedong is bonjwa.



It's pretty obvious that you are a blind fanboy.


User was banned for this post.
w_3 Twister
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9 Posts
May 10 2010 15:34 GMT
#33
good read but as far as bonjwa goes, I generally side with jaedong but I couldnt see them not giving it to flash if he won both osl and msl. gg's all around.
Tomorrow is not a promise
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
May 10 2010 15:46 GMT
#34
On May 10 2010 20:20 QibingZero wrote:
This is silly.

It's pretty obvious that Jaedong is bonjwa.

Flash, on the other hand, is a step above bonjwa. =P


When they meet anything can happen, however.


Even the commentators admit that Jaedong is bonjwa!



See: 1:58
"Even if you look at the first two matches with Midas, you can see why Jaedong is Strong, why Jaedong is Bonjwa, why Jaedong is the Tyrant, why he's ranked 2nd in KeSPA rankings"
din
Profile Joined October 2009
Hungary27 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 16:03:04
May 10 2010 16:01 GMT
#35
"Even if you look at the first two matches with Midas, you can see why Jaedong is Strong, why Jaedong is Bonjwa, why Jaedong is the Tyrant, why he's ranked 2nd in KeSPA rankings"

OMG LMAO :DDDD
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42520 Posts
May 10 2010 16:35 GMT
#36
On May 10 2010 23:50 Yggdrasil Leaf wrote:
"Flash gets a 4 simply because his game was so uninspiring. "

This kind of opinions... I mean... seriously?
whatever.

What? If you give fives out for anything other than truly amazing play then the system breaks down when in two weeks I have to describe what Flash did to Kal because there's no number for it. Four is well above the benchmark of competence I expect for a progamer but Flash's play wasn't impressive for Flash. Unless you contest that I don't see how you can possibly give him a five. Flash played passive against FEs twice in a row, his play was uninspired, strategically bad, reactionary and basic. He just reverted to the raw bones of the style he knows best without regard for the situations in the games in question. It was simply brute force of skill that won him the games. You don't get a five for that.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 16:39:44
May 10 2010 16:39 GMT
#37
The subject of Flash being a bonjwa has been broached in a TL newspost. It is now fair game.

Also, enough with the OSL negativity! The other semi-final has two players who are their team aces and who have shown time and time again that they can compete with the best. The MSL may have Jaedong and Flash, but it also had great and MVP until last week.

Who's to say that either EffOrt or Kal can't put up a fight against Flash? Kal has played him extremely closely in their last meetings, while EffOrt (according to legend) was Flash's best practice while prepping for Jaedong, and held his own repeatedly against Flash's play. And the final is in a goddamn airplane hangar.

What's not to love? BOTH finals are going to be excellent this year, the overall quality of the players remaining is the best it's been in years.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Yggdrasil Leaf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
221 Posts
May 10 2010 16:45 GMT
#38
On May 11 2010 01:35 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 23:50 Yggdrasil Leaf wrote:
"Flash gets a 4 simply because his game was so uninspiring. "

This kind of opinions... I mean... seriously?
whatever.

What? If you give fives out for anything other than truly amazing play then the system breaks down when in two weeks I have to describe what Flash did to Kal because there's no number for it. Four is well above the benchmark of competence I expect for a progamer but Flash's play wasn't impressive for Flash. Unless you contest that I don't see how you can possibly give him a five. Flash played passive against FEs twice in a row, his play was uninspired, strategically bad, reactionary and basic. He just reverted to the raw bones of the style he knows best without regard for the situations in the games in question. It was simply brute force of skill that won him the games. You don't get a five for that.


I didn't ask for a five. It's that sentence and it's argument: it's sounds too subjective. You can do better than that.
And what is this: "but Flash's play wasn't impressive for Flash"?
Leave the 4 or whatever but don't argue like that; just evaluate the game, forget who the player is.

But you can write whatever you like. I appreciate the work for the most part.
"A person hears only what they understand" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
amazingoopah
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1925 Posts
May 10 2010 17:05 GMT
#39
I just wish we could settle this bonjwa talk in an OSL best of five without power outage!
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 10 2010 19:01 GMT
#40
On May 10 2010 20:56 HopLight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 19:25 rockon1215 wrote:
On May 10 2010 19:02 danl9rm wrote:
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.


you don't think jaedong has a case?

flash hasn't been on top for even a year yet

If it's a JD vs. Flash finals, winner is bonjwa.


Nope, even if JD wins, consecutive double finals trumps that.


o rly? it trumps four seasons in a row with a gold?
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Wi)nD
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada719 Posts
May 10 2010 19:09 GMT
#41
flash is such a beast
plan3t
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada75 Posts
May 10 2010 20:03 GMT
#42

In-flight entertainment...

Today, we actually have a movie. Watch it on a tiny screen with some dinky headphones for the full Korean Air experience.

The movie is called: "The Best Game of 2010 So Far"
Starring: Gu Seung Hoon (Hiya), Yoon Yong Tae (Free).
Directed by: Hana Daetoo Securities MSL.

Yes, it's from our rivals over at the MSL, but this game is not only too good to miss, but it would be a crime not advertise it through every venue available to me.


Oh my God, thank you for recommending this match.
And here I thought I was watching good TvP in the OSL...
That was amazing. Everyone check out this game.
C0rrupt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States57 Posts
May 10 2010 20:29 GMT
#43
Looks like Flash just might win this
The corruption has begun
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 20:39:13
May 10 2010 20:37 GMT
#44
Uhm... Are the ratings for each match relative to the players skill?
If not, it's completely false.
Flash played far better than Pure so they can't both have rating 4 if it's not relative.

Since it's relative, it doesn't really say much :/
(for example flash's loss vs MVP would be something like MVP: 5 Flash:2 )

anyway nice writeup.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
May 10 2010 20:44 GMT
#45
On May 10 2010 17:57 Waxangel wrote:
Hmmm, well if he wins MSL and OSL in the same season, then he'll be the first to ever do so... which gives him an extremely strong case to be considered bonjwa.

2nd Nada did it as well (although the MSL wasn't the MSL back then...)
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
May 10 2010 20:51 GMT
#46
thank you for the writeup!

we all know the MSL will do as much as they can to fuck it up, so no worries!
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
conTAgi0n
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States335 Posts
May 10 2010 22:36 GMT
#47
On May 11 2010 00:23 din wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 20:20 QibingZero wrote:

It's pretty obvious that Jaedong is bonjwa.



It's pretty obvious that you are a blind fanboy.


It's pretty obvious that you didn't read his post very carefully before deciding to call him out on it. Let's look at this statement in context:

On May 10 2010 20:20 QibingZero wrote:
This is silly.

It's pretty obvious that Jaedong is bonjwa.

Flash, on the other hand, is a step above bonjwa. =P [emphasis added]


When they meet anything can happen, however.


Since you had to actually delete the rest of his post from the quotation, I'm not sure how you managed to come up with the interpretation that you did. Something to consider anyways before you decide to accuse someone else of being a fanboy.
tru_power22
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada385 Posts
May 10 2010 22:49 GMT
#48
I noticed a mistake in the bracket. I fixed if for you though.

[image loading]
Smoke Errday!
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 10 2010 22:57 GMT
#49
On May 11 2010 07:49 tru_power22 wrote:
I noticed a mistake in the bracket. I fixed if for you though.

[image loading]


LOL
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 23:08:08
May 10 2010 23:02 GMT
#50
Jaedong has been dominating from about 2007- 2009 (now playing sub-Flash...except maybe in BO5...will have to see MSL finals to clear that point)

I don't think anything neared JD's play when Flash had a mini-slump

3 OSL
2MSL (maybe 3 soon)

1 MSL silver (4/5 finals win)

keSPA no1 for 15 months

most TL netizens do not recognise Jaedong was Bonjwa for a while (back in maybe end of 2008 and 2009)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flash has been dominating for a few month, had a mini-slump and played sub-jaedong for a while before that (though pretty near to the tyrant).

2 OSL( soon to be 3)
(maybe 1 MSL soon)

1 MSL silver (2/3 Finals win)
keSPA no 1 for 8 months

Most TL netizens think Flash is Bonjwa if he makes it past his MSL semi-final
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now if we want to be consequent to our judging of Jaedong for Bonjwa status, we need to have Flash do A LOT more then overwhelm everything (except our good friend Jaedong in A BO5)
for a few months.

If we grant Flash Bonjwa, we must say Jaedong was Bonjwa in end of 2008 and 2009

If not Lee ssang Rok is Bonjwa and i don't think anyone can argue/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
granted I am a Jaedong fan but that was done mostly based on statistics so please don't counter-argue me with something like that

Writer
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
May 10 2010 23:06 GMT
#51
more and more becoming a Flash anti-fan, can't wait to see his downfall...
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-10 23:08:12
May 10 2010 23:07 GMT
#52
@swanized
Except you only bring up stats that favour Jaedong here...
Having like 100% winratio for a year and breaking all kinds of records is also something to be considered.

Flash is simply more dominating with potential dual back to back MSL+OSL finals coming up.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
tru_power22
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada385 Posts
May 10 2010 23:24 GMT
#53
On May 11 2010 08:06 Shiladie wrote:
more and more becoming a Flash anti-fan, can't wait to see his downfall...


Why, because he is beast of a progamer? If your going to rage, Give a reason.
Smoke Errday!
alexpnd
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1857 Posts
May 10 2010 23:32 GMT
#54
Flash is post-bonjwa. Yeah. Sci-fi time.
www.brainyweb.ca //web stuff!
Djin)ftw(
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany3357 Posts
May 10 2010 23:58 GMT
#55
i'm fucking stoned and star wars is running but i have to say this is like the craziest shit i ever read
"jk CLG best mindgames using the baron to counterthrow" - boesthius
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
May 11 2010 00:08 GMT
#56
On May 11 2010 07:49 tru_power22 wrote:
I noticed a mistake in the bracket. I fixed if for you though.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



hahah XD
so true...

nice writeup! described the games i didn't want to watch relay well =P
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
Rkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1278 Posts
May 11 2010 00:11 GMT
#57
man Pure was soo close too. In both the second and third sets, Pure should have beaten Flash, but made a few small decisions like waiting for extra carriers and not attacking, which cost him dearly. I believe in Kal, though. He will be the downfall of the KT Hero
tru_power22
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada385 Posts
May 11 2010 02:22 GMT
#58
On May 11 2010 09:11 Rkie wrote:
man Pure was soo close too. In both the second and third sets, Pure should have beaten Flash, but made a few small decisions like waiting for extra carriers and not attacking, which cost him dearly. I believe in Kal, though. He will be the downfall of the KT Hero


I think Kal is a strong player, but Flash can macro like a beast. Not to mention Tanks>All

(Would love to see a nuke. If I saw one, I might jizz a little).
Smoke Errday!
zipz0p
Profile Joined February 2010
United States123 Posts
May 11 2010 03:30 GMT
#59
On May 10 2010 17:18 Waxangel wrote:
...I know I'm mean to Pure because, well, he deserves it usually, but I was actually impressed here...

I couldn't agree more. I was impressed (much more so than I expected to be!), but mediocre play from Flash is still a bit better than inspired play from a mediocre player.

Thanks for the interesting analysis, and I really enjoy this format! Keep up the good work! With any luck, the other semi-final will produce not only interesting games, but a competent competitor to Flash in the finals (I'm not holding my breath!).
u gotta skate
akomatic
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
156 Posts
May 11 2010 04:33 GMT
#60
I don't object to the 4/5s. Although, if I were Flash, I'd rather try to create risk-averse 4/5 wins than the chance of 3/5 losses or 5/5 wins. I think we can all remember a recent PvT series where the T had a substantial lead, and then repeatedly tried for wild 5/5 wins when he already had proven he could win standard, only to lose the series.
..Bears!
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
May 11 2010 04:38 GMT
#61
good writeup as always
Zorkit
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada66 Posts
May 11 2010 04:44 GMT
#62
Ugh i hate how Flash can steamroll almost anyone despite a craptastic earlygame
TerraN_[art]
Profile Joined April 2010
Mexico2 Posts
May 11 2010 05:55 GMT
#63
GG KT F l a S h
cancun
Fx_
Profile Joined April 2008
503 Posts
May 11 2010 07:32 GMT
#64
On May 11 2010 08:06 Shiladie wrote:
more and more becoming a Flash anti-fan, can't wait to see his downfall...


LOL
what will you do when FlaSh would raped (theoretically) Jaedong?
Power is your Intelligence
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 11 2010 08:41 GMT
#65
On May 11 2010 12:30 zipz0p wrote:
I couldn't agree more. I was impressed (much more so than I expected to be!), but mediocre play from Flash is still a bit better than inspired play from a mediocre player.


I don't really get this talk about mediocre play. Flash played really well.
He played safely, thats hard vs 12 nexus.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Metaspace
Profile Joined November 2006
Austria670 Posts
May 11 2010 10:02 GMT
#66
Very nice report, interesting analysis. Well done!
Wir haben zuwenig Vespingas!
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines530 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 12:08:35
May 11 2010 12:08 GMT
#67
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!

jaedong has been raping for past a year and everyone says "nah hes not bonjwa yet"

WTF!!!!!

/jaedong fanboy rage
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Garrl
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Scotland1972 Posts
May 11 2010 12:15 GMT
#68
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!

jaedong has been raping for past a year and everyone says "nah hes not bonjwa yet"

WTF!!!!!

/jaedong fanboy rage


Flash does have slightly better stats (71.88% winrate) to Jaedong's (68.26%), so Flash is slightly better, but either way, they're both bonjwas, tbh.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 13:34:49
May 11 2010 13:33 GMT
#69
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!


LOL, Flash has had over 80% winratio for over a year now.

There's a BIG differense between 70% and 80% winratio.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
May 11 2010 16:19 GMT
#70
just finished watching the vods GG
Beachac
Profile Joined June 2009
United States278 Posts
May 11 2010 17:46 GMT
#71
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!

jaedong has been raping for past a year and everyone says "nah hes not bonjwa yet"

WTF!!!!!

/jaedong fanboy rage


Holy shit you're a moron. Flash has been dominating since september, not two months. Jaedong hasn't even been consistently playing at an s-class level for the past year. The difference between flash and jaedong's play is not even tiny, it's huge.

User was banned for this post.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 17:48:12
May 11 2010 17:48 GMT
#72
On May 11 2010 22:33 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!


LOL, Flash has had over 80% winratio for over a year now.

There's a BIG differense between 70% and 80% winratio.


There is an even bigger difference between three golds and one gold

[image loading]

That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
asdfTT123
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States989 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 18:54:25
May 11 2010 18:51 GMT
#73
On May 12 2010 02:46 Beachac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!

jaedong has been raping for past a year and everyone says "nah hes not bonjwa yet"

WTF!!!!!

/jaedong fanboy rage


Holy shit you're a moron. Flash has been dominating since september, not two months. Jaedong hasn't even been consistently playing at an s-class level for the past year. The difference between flash and jaedong's play is not even tiny, it's huge.


ROFLWAFFLE. KTflash fanboyism at its worst.

Seriously, what a boring starleague final this will be. So many interesting/good players were knocked out early (i.e Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, etc) and now it will be Flash vs Kal/Effort, who are both undeserving of an appearance in a starleague final (esp Effort, who ROBBED Shine because he QQed about his mouse, wtf???). And Pure in the semi's against Flash? Pure has no business beyond any Ro16, and he makes it into the Ro4 only to be crushed like a fly? What a joke.

MSL >>>> OSL this season.
n.Die_Jaedong <3
SturmAddict
Profile Joined October 2009
Malaysia176 Posts
May 11 2010 19:29 GMT
#74
And why would jaedong/Stork, who lost to even Baby , be deserving to be in an OSL finals?

Big name =/= skill
They both lost to a 15 year old. And that about sums their current level really. effort and free is waaaaaay more deserving to reach a final then these two.
Almtom
Profile Joined May 2009
Sweden132 Posts
May 11 2010 19:56 GMT
#75
Flash is god!
Spyfire242
Profile Joined March 2009
United States715 Posts
May 11 2010 20:00 GMT
#76
People misunderstand the term, "Bonjwa."
Entusman #55 Spyfire242!
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
May 11 2010 20:06 GMT
#77
really, really bad raittings

how can u rate 4both maybe flash was not the beast we used to but he still the best right now. pure just went 14 nexus everygame and he lost all of them, he just gave one nice match the rest was just sad.

KT_FlaSh #1
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
May 11 2010 20:09 GMT
#78
On May 12 2010 03:51 asdfTT123 wrote:
MSL >>>> OSL this season.


just cause jd was crushed by baby?
KT_FlaSh #1
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44175 Posts
May 11 2010 21:20 GMT
#79
Clearly, Flash needs to play Robo-Flash in the finals.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
May 11 2010 21:29 GMT
#80
And why would jaedong/Stork, who lost to even Baby , be deserving to be in an OSL finals?

Big name =/= skill
They both lost to a 15 year old. And that about sums their current level really. effort and free is waaaaaay more deserving to reach a final then these two.


*cough cough cough cough cough*
wtf man



On May 12 2010 03:51 asdfTT123 wrote:
MSL >>>> OSL this season.


just cause jd was crushed by baby?



exactly
Writer
poptartazn2
Profile Joined April 2010
United States15 Posts
May 11 2010 21:30 GMT
#81
Rofl, watching that jaedong vs midas video, I realize that while TL foreigners quarrel amongst themselves on "WTF GUY HASN'T WON 4 STARLEAGUES IN A ROW AND 95% WIN RATE NO BONJWA", Hanguk has already decided that Jaedong is the current bonjwa, already having taken the first's seat.
"...'최고수, 지존'를 뜻하는 말로 변용되었다" (Translated to words like 'Number 1 gosu, expert' [Note: not necessarily 19starleague-platinummouse-98%winrate player)
Foreigners misunderstand the term, yes.
12 point FPL. Can we call him bonjwa NOW?
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
May 11 2010 22:07 GMT
#82
I really want to see Effort vs Flash for the grand final. There's my hope and prediction for the tournament.
There's no S in KT. :P
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42520 Posts
May 11 2010 23:56 GMT
#83
On May 12 2010 05:06 PhOeniX[MinD] wrote:
really, really bad raittings

how can u rate 4both maybe flash was not the beast we used to but he still the best right now. pure just went 14 nexus everygame and he lost all of them, he just gave one nice match the rest was just sad.


I explained my ratings. Pure was above average. Flash was under his best. There's room in 4 for both of them. If I give Flash a 5 for this then I have nothing for when people play exceptionally well. Giving Pure a 3 for these games wouldn't be fair to his strategy and macro.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
May 12 2010 00:10 GMT
#84
I feel bad for Pure, he is playing really well right now and I feel that if he could have faced anyone but Jaedong and Flash he would have a trip to the Finals, but alas.
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
May 12 2010 02:09 GMT
#85
On May 12 2010 03:51 asdfTT123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2010 02:46 Beachac wrote:
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!

jaedong has been raping for past a year and everyone says "nah hes not bonjwa yet"

WTF!!!!!

/jaedong fanboy rage


Holy shit you're a moron. Flash has been dominating since september, not two months. Jaedong hasn't even been consistently playing at an s-class level for the past year. The difference between flash and jaedong's play is not even tiny, it's huge.


ROFLWAFFLE. KTflash fanboyism at its worst.

Seriously, what a boring starleague final this will be. So many interesting/good players were knocked out early (i.e Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, etc) and now it will be Flash vs Kal/Effort, who are both undeserving of an appearance in a starleague final (esp Effort, who ROBBED Shine because he QQed about his mouse, wtf???). And Pure in the semi's against Flash? Pure has no business beyond any Ro16, and he makes it into the Ro4 only to be crushed like a fly? What a joke.

MSL >>>> OSL this season.


I'm no Starcraft guru but that whole point makes 0 sense. It's not normal to have an entitlement complex for yourself, let alone someone else. How do players that lost, deserve the spot that the people that beat them are in. This isn't boxing/ufc, there's no "champion and #1 contender," JD lost his games, I bet he would be the first to admit he doesn't deserve a spot in the finals because of it.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Lazerbeems
Profile Joined May 2010
151 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 04:00:31
May 12 2010 03:52 GMT
#86
On May 12 2010 03:51 asdfTT123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2010 02:46 Beachac wrote:
On May 11 2010 21:08 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
omg wtf bias! flash is good for only 2 months and you call him bonjwa?!

jaedong has been raping for past a year and everyone says "nah hes not bonjwa yet"

WTF!!!!!

/jaedong fanboy rage


Holy shit you're a moron. Flash has been dominating since september, not two months. Jaedong hasn't even been consistently playing at an s-class level for the past year. The difference between flash and jaedong's play is not even tiny, it's huge.


ROFLWAFFLE. KTflash fanboyism at its worst.

Seriously, what a boring starleague final this will be. So many interesting/good players were knocked out early (i.e Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy, etc) and now it will be Flash vs Kal/Effort, who are both undeserving of an appearance in a starleague final (esp Effort, who ROBBED Shine because he QQed about his mouse, wtf???). And Pure in the semi's against Flash? Pure has no business beyond any Ro16, and he makes it into the Ro4 only to be crushed like a fly? What a joke.

MSL >>>> OSL this season.


Kal undeserving of an individual league finals? Are you really joking?

If any player wants to get to the final, he has to get to it like everyone else - through the Ro32, through the Ro16, and so forth. Stork is much less deserving of a individual league position than Kal because he doesn't win the vast majority of his games like Kal, Fantasy can't TvZ for crap, and Jaedong couldn't even beat Baby in a Bo3.

Kal vs Flash will definitely be one of the better TvP series matches considering how damn strong the two have been playing in the matchup. Kal's play has been very good and Effort's play has taken a complete 180 degree turn after he appeared on the match fixing list.

Next season, Flash and Jaedong should automatically get knocked out so all the fanboys can stop spewing rubbish.
Kashll
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1117 Posts
May 12 2010 05:33 GMT
#87
On May 11 2010 07:57 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 07:49 tru_power22 wrote:
I noticed a mistake in the bracket. I fixed if for you though.

[image loading]


LOL


Congrats, you pointed out the joke :p
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
May 12 2010 12:54 GMT
#88
do Korean call players bonjwa?

Because some Korean guy told me that bonjwa translates into savior. So, I deduced (wasnt told) it was a title exclusive to (Z)sAviOr.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 12 2010 17:35 GMT
#89
Kwark maybe you should have used ratings 1-10 instead
1-5 obviously isn't enough to judge this series...
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
May 12 2010 18:03 GMT
#90
On May 13 2010 02:35 StylishVODs wrote:
Kwark maybe you should have used ratings 1-10 instead
1-5 obviously isn't enough to judge this series...

I think 1-2 is the more appropriate scale. 1 is for people who don't play perfectly. 2 should be reserved for when people play perfectly, and would be given very rarely.
May the BeSt man win.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 12 2010 18:20 GMT
#91
On May 13 2010 03:03 Djabanete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2010 02:35 StylishVODs wrote:
Kwark maybe you should have used ratings 1-10 instead
1-5 obviously isn't enough to judge this series...

I think 1-2 is the more appropriate scale. 1 is for people who don't play perfectly. 2 should be reserved for when people play perfectly, and would be given very rarely.

lol
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Kuzmorgo
Profile Joined May 2009
Hungary1058 Posts
May 12 2010 18:28 GMT
#92
On May 12 2010 05:00 Spyfire242 wrote:
People misunderstand the term, "Bonjwa."



Pls explain then.No offence meant btw

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bonjwa

No seriously, i dont understand this whole bonjwa thing.
If you watch Flash's and Jaedong's games you know how they play, you can have an idea who they are, call them what you want, but raging and debating hours about who is the bonjwa of the two...I find that pointless. Time will tell!
"No, whine not! Play, or play not! There is no whine."
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
May 13 2010 01:41 GMT
#93
kal deserves to be on semi but i dont think he will reach the final cause his pvz is not good enough but i like him and im really not used to like P players
KT_FlaSh #1
NetherOgle
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3 Posts
May 13 2010 02:33 GMT
#94
In the Hiya VS Free game, can somebody PLEASE tell me why the commentators went all crazy and Hiya smiled when he started a Command Center just moments before GG. I have to know why.
“As the Red Queen told Alice in Wonderland, you have to entertain six impossible ideas before breakfast.”
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
May 13 2010 04:00 GMT
#95
On May 13 2010 11:33 NetherOgle wrote:
In the Hiya VS Free game, can somebody PLEASE tell me why the commentators went all crazy and Hiya smiled when he started a Command Center just moments before GG. I have to know why.


in what set ?
KT_FlaSh #1
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
May 13 2010 05:46 GMT
#96
Flash gonna dominate ^_^
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
May 13 2010 13:10 GMT
#97
Flash for the double crown
this is amazing
cw)minsean(ru
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
May 13 2010 16:30 GMT
#98
On May 13 2010 11:33 NetherOgle wrote:
In the Hiya VS Free game, can somebody PLEASE tell me why the commentators went all crazy and Hiya smiled when he started a Command Center just moments before GG. I have to know why.


Free cast mindcontrol on Hiyas SCV. Free was making the Command Center.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
May 13 2010 17:36 GMT
#99
Flash'es TvP is imba now! I mean 3-0 Pure, 3-0 Free...I hope Effort will qualify because I cant see how Kal can beat Flash! Effort will prepare Flash for Jaedong
Jaedong has a chance to beat Flash 'cause Flash wants that golden mouse so OSL is a priority for him. I dont know if he has enough time to prepare well for the MSL final. (The same thing happened last year in the MSL final)
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
May 14 2010 19:25 GMT
#100
the pure and free matches gave us the meaning of 12 nexus against good terrans = humilliation on tv
KT_FlaSh #1
SturmAddict
Profile Joined October 2009
Malaysia176 Posts
May 14 2010 22:30 GMT
#101
Well. only losers and sulkers think 12 nex is the imbalanced solution to all TvP, or the bane of terran wateva.

Flash showed us how he handle players who play 50/50 12 nex/fast obs. He can bunker rush and be in an advantage. He can double expand and be in an advantage. Or he can rush rines and win there and then.

The only way 12 nex is really somewhat decent is if its on cross positions. and thats like. 33% of the time IF its a 4p map.
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
May 16 2010 21:02 GMT
#102
lol this semi final was a slaughter
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
DemiSe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
883 Posts
May 17 2010 00:06 GMT
#103
On May 17 2010 06:02 TriniMasta[wD] wrote:
lol this semi final was a slaughter

Indeed, the loser never stood a chance.
Let's See Who's Stronger, Your Tricks, Or My Skills.
Crotarocks
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-17 11:57:04
May 17 2010 11:56 GMT
#104
I have some math: bonjwa=savior, savior=scandal guy. Why would people compare anyone to him?
the races are not balanced, but my poorness at them is
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
May 17 2010 12:27 GMT
#105
Well he wasn't bonjwa and scandal guy at the same time. He was bonjwa, got rocked, and instead of pulling a Nada and getting better again, he started throwing matches.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Crotarocks
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
May 17 2010 20:11 GMT
#106
oh. thanks for clearing that up im not good at monitering other players
the races are not balanced, but my poorness at them is
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42520 Posts
May 18 2010 07:15 GMT
#107
On May 13 2010 03:03 Djabanete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2010 02:35 StylishVODs wrote:
Kwark maybe you should have used ratings 1-10 instead
1-5 obviously isn't enough to judge this series...

I think 1-2 is the more appropriate scale. 1 is for people who don't play perfectly. 2 should be reserved for when people play perfectly, and would be given very rarely.

A 10 star system would be as absurd as a non integer based star system. I may complain about the limitations of 5 stars but I refuse to use anything else.
And while I would enjoy the simplicity of a binery system in which Flash and Jaedong sometimes get a 2 and everything else is a 1 I feel it wouldn't be very informative.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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