EPT[MSL] Power Underwhelming - Page 21
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
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Iri
150 Posts
Frankly, if Flash had been up against someone with the mental strength of Jaedong in the OSL, I think he would have lost that championship too. Movie cracked under the pressure and missed opportunities to win multiple games. Flash is a Starcraft genius, but he had not, before this season, demonstrated a champion's strength of purpose, and I think this incident demonstrates that he's still not there in the way that Jaedong and some of the other greats are. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On January 24 2010 20:49 Iri wrote: Is it reasonable for me to point out that in the end, who won this game isn't as important as how each player responded to the situation? After this happened, Jaedong moved to the next game and continued to execute at championship level, while Flash moved to the next game and lost it in exactly the same way he lost game 1. Regardless of how this decision went, the result of the next game tells us who had the mental fortitude to win the championship. Frankly, if Flash had been up against someone with the mental strength of Jaedong in the OSL, I think he would have lost that championship too. Movie cracked under the pressure and missed opportunities to win multiple games. Flash is a Starcraft genius, but he had not, before this season, demonstrated a champion's strength of purpose, and I think this incident demonstrates that he's still not there in the way that Jaedong and some of the other greats are. I feel that no, that isn't reasonable. Dealing in this situation when you are on the winning side is hardly any effort at all. Being on the losing side is when it's hard. But that is not all, being on the losing side while your coaches and father are raging hard leading to your dad being removed by security is not something that would leave anyone uninfluenced. Jaedong dealt better with what was thrown his way but it was also not in the very least comparable to what Flash had to deal with. The fourth game was played on completely unfair grounds and postponing it would have been the right thing to do. For the large part these unfair mental grounds were created by Flash' dad and not the decision itself. | ||
KwarK
United States43448 Posts
On January 24 2010 16:40 deus_073 wrote: Would set number 2, if something happened before the drops, would have been awarded to JD? JD had 4 GASSSS, JD had 4 BASES!!! JD had ultras!!! JD had guardiens!!! JD had a million sunkens, JD had had. Flash had 2 bases omg, flash's main was going on empty, flash needed siege tanks to bust those sunkens and that would have taken 500 years, plus the gas and vessels and ... and... Right....so? D-Matrix, drop-drop-drop, expo => complete turn around while JD had everything is his favor. JD was like 70-30 (AT LEAST) in that game and look what happened. Shut up. Re-match, the only way to go. 5 running gas? Do you think JD stockpiled it? I know flash did, i know how much gas T's have in the bank after 18 minutes. 3-4 bases did JD have? Well, the 7 o'clock had only 3 drones mining minerals. He had 2 gases, but you know what goes great with gas? Minerals! Main almost out, expo almost out, and that expo near the main. So he had 2+1/2 bases. Flash had 1 mineral only (fresh) and almost mined out expo (not mined out, you can see it on the minimap). Flash would have taken those odds! Retreating? He has M&M's, of course he is retreating, that's what medic and marine forces do! He had 3-3, not 2-2. JD had 2 sunkens, 2 ultras, 3 zerlings, 2 scourge. Flash would have been able to produce m&m. Not a lot, but he could produce, there is no doubt about this. And you've seen what Flash is able to do with those medic walls. This is pure BS. And we're listening to people saying - hey, kespa did the right thing. Fuck Kespa. They screwed up. Re-match for the spirit of the game, for the fans, for everyone. Neither of the players could have said anything. Now Flash can say something. Was JD in the lead? Sure. Was he overwhelmingly in the lead? No. Re-match? Yes. Medic walls are great but let me give you a few stats about that game. If JD was mining the 5 gas he had then he could make an ultralisk every 8 seconds or so. Those ultralisks had the full 6 armour. That means they take 133 marine hits to die. That means that if Flash's entire army at the blackout (at most 26 marines) walked over to JaeDong's rally point and JaeDong allied him and just left his units there taking fire he would still produce ultralisks faster than Flash's entire army could kill them. | ||
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roMAD
Russia2355 Posts
 fantasy what he thought and he said the decision to give the game to Jaedong was the right one, as he simply put it "jaedong win" | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On January 24 2010 21:20 roMAD wrote: I've asked fantasy what he thought and he said the decision to give the game to Jaedong was the right one, as he simply put it "jaedong win"haha, simply put but it says it all. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
I still think everyone here (foreigners) judge this situation in a very linear and non-dynamic way. Starcraft isn't just resources, but how you use them. And ret, Jaedong didn't have a 99,9% chance of winning, that's using statistics in a very bad way because it's simply false. Also, why does everyone forget Flash's dropship usage in the game before? He could have pulled off the same thing in this game. Maybe he was right about to. So stop throwing out these arbitrary percentages. If I'd gotten a penny for every time people have decided that a game is over, but it ends up being won by the other player, I'd be rich by now. It's funny, people go "LOL IT'S OVER" "GG ALREADY". A couple minutes later they're like "oh how did THAT happen". People have called games like this one before. And been wrong. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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Khako
Australia2 Posts
edit: I just feel that if it weren't for that this whole shitty blackout situation could have been salvaged. Oh cruel world! | ||
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deus_073
Romania187 Posts
Flash as far as i saw from the 1st and 4th set was really well mannered and didn't stay in the game any longer than needed. He didn't try any ridiculous comebacks, thus i feel his opinion will settle things out. On the other hand, i don't really think a progamer can get upset on Kespa (maybe i'm wrong)... even if you're Flash, thus making any interview being equal to ziltch. | ||
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Squallcloud
France466 Posts
The hours of wait before the last game made things worse. Instead we have a game where i get the feeling Flash just tought screw all this shit i already won OSL, i don't care anymore. It left me a bit angry at him to throw the game like that. | ||
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
Flash for obvious reasons, resentment and disapointment. Jaedong because despite putting in all the hard yards and playing the best starcraft of his entire, already very impressive, career... will undoubtably feel hollow about his victory, not to mention others feeling he was given the Gold by Kespa. Really hope this doesn't happen. | ||
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boring
38 Posts
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BAdGer_
United States80 Posts
None of this is relevant after KESPA made their decision nearly 48 hours ago Look at what was denied because MBC screwed up in such a large way much, much more than KESPA (if KESPA screwed up at all) This was to be the best finals in a long time, both players nearly in top form and their rivalry at its peak with the Ever OSL Ro8 fresh on their minds. oh ya... there was this little hiccup about the venue, but that was nervously laughed off as not that important to the quality of the games game 3 f***ed up the finals hardcore no matter how it was going to be decided, one player was Finished, in a Bo5 that's tied neck and neck, the letdown involved in giving a win (or giving a rematch where JD was almost assured to lose, you cant pull off a miracle like that twice) the losing player is assured to lose game 4, in a lame way, which is exactly what happened. had JD finished of the 3rd set [in an epic DS Ultra/ling break] Flash would've played even better in the 4th set and I believe would have used the macro abilities of Fighting Spirit to MnM ->Bionic ->Many Tanks =Win We would've one of the most epic series culminating in a game 5...of that I have no doubt...but... ...Flash was crushed and there was no turning back No matter what strategists are saying now, the fact is that in the heat of a game a terran with good (forget gosu micro) can make amazing turnarounds or maybe not...maybe JD is too good mechanically, too unrelenting to give flash an inch, maybe 2 minutes later Flash would've GG'ed but that hope was crushed, exterminated, never to see the light of day again. game 4 was flash hitting a wall, a great black unrelenting wall darker than JD himself it might've gone the other way but the Refs made a decision and I am sure it was a painful one, but a decision had to be made The rest is history... What Jaedong accomplished against Flash cements him as the greatest player of all time. He overcame unfavorable maps and the best TvZ player ever in order to claim his third individual league championship in three seasons. Plexa's TLFE has never been more relevant. | ||
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Plethora
United States206 Posts
Say this is basketball. Game three was the equivalent of Flash being down 3 points at the buzzer and taking a crazy off balance half court shot as time expired (which would have only tied the game, not won it). Then, as the ball is arcing towards the basket, the whole basket collapses and no one will ever know if it would have gone in or not. It *probably* wouldn't have gone in, but we don't know that and never will know. (And please note, since I already hear the responses, the part of this analogy that is equivalent to how big JD's lead was is not the point margin, but how far away and how crazy Flash's shot would have been). | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
On January 24 2010 22:19 Foucault wrote: I agree with Chill. I still think everyone here (foreigners) judge this situation in a very linear and non-dynamic way. Starcraft isn't just resources, but how you use them. And ret, Jaedong didn't have a 99,9% chance of winning, that's using statistics in a very bad way because it's simply false. Also, why does everyone forget Flash's dropship usage in the game before? He could have pulled off the same thing in this game. Maybe he was right about to. So stop throwing out these arbitrary percentages. If I'd gotten a penny for every time people have decided that a game is over, but it ends up being won by the other player, I'd be rich by now. It's funny, people go "LOL IT'S OVER" "GG ALREADY". A couple minutes later they're like "oh how did THAT happen". People have called games like this one before. And been wrong. totally agree. stop saying that people are ignorants. The vast majority in tl.net knows about the game and are many of us that know a lot about strategy, tvz, and statistics. The decision was not fair, there is no rep and the show was screwed for that decision, they need to learn about other sports and disciplines, maybe some US enginners behind baseball or basketball would help a lot in korea esport scene. | ||
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bias-
United States410 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9341/flash1.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6687/flash2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7563/flash3w.jpg) The main reason I am a fan of Lee Young Ho. That man is genuinely happy for the (complete) games played and Jaedong. A lot of the grief I think stems from the fact that this would be icing on the cake for people's idea of someone being a neo-bonjwa. The only problem is none of the players like that idea anymore due to the multitude of great players. So let my/your dream of Flash reigning invincibly supreme go for now and just accept Jaedong's amazing play. Flash seems happy despite some serious bull going down just minutes prior. We should be too. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On January 25 2010 03:10 bias- wrote: The main reason I am a fan of Lee Young Ho. That man is genuinely happy for the (complete) games played and Jaedong. A lot of the grief I think stems from the fact that this would be icing on the cake for people's idea of someone being a neo-bonjwa. The only problem is none of the players like that idea anymore due to the multitude of great players. So let my/your dream of Flash reigning invincibly supreme go for now and just accept Jaedong's amazing play. Flash seems happy despite some serious bull going down just minutes prior. We should be too. well, maybe not happy but at least we should stop the rage. It has no use after all.. | ||
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ODiE
United States10 Posts
1. How does a frickin heat fan- thats what a couple of volts?- able to cut the power on an entire building? 2. How is this godam building so poorly set up that it has no back up? Props to MBC and Nate. | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
On January 25 2010 04:33 ODiE wrote: Some PLEASE reply to my question: 1. How does a frickin heat fan- thats what a couple of volts?- able to cut the power on an entire building? 2. How is this godam building so poorly set up that it has no back up? Props to MBC and Nate. 1: It's not earthed properly. 2: Human error. In this case, the electrician. | ||
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