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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On November 26 2020 05:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Elaborate please. Where does this come from? It was just so weird, they were off in their own corner and I saw no real particularly townie thing from them. Lots of good stuff, but scum can do good too. It’s how you swindle town. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On November 26 2020 06:40 Alakaslam wrote: It was just so weird, they were off in their own corner and I saw no real particularly townie thing from them. Lots of good stuff, but scum can do good too. It’s how you swindle town. The problem i see here is that it should be quite clear why i decided to change my lynch preference, as i said so. After that you start thinking Hapa and Trfel are mafia, not TT anymore, who was btw one of the people who at least quickly jumped on Grack is mafia train. Like i would be totally fine with your eod if you started yelling me "look this super scummy TT is gonna make you change the lynch!!" but no, that's not what you did. Even though TT technically at least possibly played a role in that. Another thing is that you had no problem with me lynching FF while you didn't think he was the best lynch. Suddenly there was a big nono when i move to some other target that is STILL not your preferred lynch. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
Comfortable with my vote. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On November 26 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem i see here is that it should be quite clear why i decided to change my lynch preference, as i said so. After that you start thinking Hapa and Trfel are mafia, not TT anymore, who was btw one of the people who at least quickly jumped on Grack is mafia train. Like i would be totally fine with your eod if you started yelling me "look this super scummy TT is gonna make you change the lynch!!" but no, that's not what you did. Even though TT technically at least possibly played a role in that. Another thing is that you had no problem with me lynching FF while you didn't think he was the best lynch. Suddenly there was a big nono when i move to some other target that is STILL not your preferred lynch. Think about this though. It’s NAI. If Grack were scum, that would implicate me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On November 26 2020 06:48 Alakaslam wrote: Think about this though. It’s NAI. If Grack were scum, that would implicate me. No it would implicate you MORE. It still may make you mafia because mafia often times react in completely retarded ways on something they dont expect to happen. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + joke  Or at least let this thought carry me throughout the game! It would be almost as glorious as being a time traveller that coudl actually time travel properly. I fucking blame greymist. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
The crux of it is that Vivax is present and around in the thread as the town starts to move to consolidate on a mayor and lynch target, but all of his posting is useless/unproductive. I also feel that his attitude towards Grack has some inconsistencies. -------- This is Vivax's first post after the thread starts to move to consolidate towards a mayoral candidate and a lynch: On November 25 2020 23:40 Vivax wrote: I think he just wanted to make a funny entrance. Don't really see him being mafia atm. Shockeyy is always like that. If I'd kill him then not because I think he's scum but because I will never be sure about what he is, probably. Someone mentioned earlier that Jock seemed less analytical than in his usual town games and I'll agree. I also find it odd in his case that he doesn't think Trfel is town given when they have been teammates and imo Trfel doesn't post like in that game (the "Trfel help" one). That said my lynch pool atm would be something along Shockeyy, Jock, Fefe. Maybe TickTock because he kinda stopped playing after getting townread by a few. Note the underlined, in which he specifies a preference for a large lynchpool of candidates. This is inherently a fine post if he uses this as a starting point to start focusing the town into certain lynch targets. The problem is that he never really attempts to narrow down this list at all. He generally throws some suspicion at Jock: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=18#343 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=18#357 Throws shade at FF/TT: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=21#410 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=21#414 Throws shade at Shockey while disapproving of the Grack lynch: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=21#420 And then more suspicion against multiple targets, adding me for good measure: On November 26 2020 04:59 Vivax wrote: Grack is right Trfel posted this earlier. Though it's more like he's talking about the speed at which he came up with them. Either way, if rayn mayor. Lynch TT, Jock, or Shockeyy pleeaaaaaase? In no particular order but what you might agree with. I think Hapa might be scum but no way he gets lynched D1. On top of that, he attacks the Grack lynch several times as the town starts to consolidate on him as a candidate. He does so without offering any real concrete backup plan himself: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=21#420 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=23#442 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=23#446 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=23#453 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=23#457 There is only one effect of this and that it confuses the town amongst several lynch targets. There's no attempt to focus or solve the game - it's a scattershot of suspicion that doesn't lead the town anywhere. "Mafia giving the appearance of contributing while not actually contributing". Vivax is happy to talk about things he is not pleased with, but he is not talking about the things that are good for town. --------------------- Regarding his "inconsistent" suspicions on Grack: On November 26 2020 04:10 Vivax wrote: Trfel I don't really want a Grack lynch. Can we arrange that or do I vote another mayor? Not because he's supertown or anything but I think he's enjoyable to play with. Lynching Shockeyy would also help, because I have a hunch that I'm going to think he's mafia at some point anyway based on past experiences. And now I can't tell what he is. Why allow a pokerface in town? On November 26 2020 06:23 Vivax wrote: With the flip I might have to reconsider, but I didn't buy the argument that Grack was scum for things around his mayoral campaign. To me it seemed like an obvious shitpost. IE Hapa didn't respect the context which happens often to mafia when they look for reasons to point at someone. I do not think these two posts are congruent. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
1) His posting is so wildly different from his scum-game in Aperture that I find it difficult to believe he is mafia. As mafia, it almost seems like he's constantly fighting the guilt of being scum. He is much looser here. 2) His move to consolidate the town on Rayn by abandoning his candidacy is objectively pro-town. My reservations against Rayn aside, it was very important at that point in the game for town to focus and consolidate. | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On November 26 2020 07:06 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Slam: 1) His posting is so wildly different from his scum-game in Aperture that I find it difficult to believe he is mafia. As mafia, it almost seems like he's constantly fighting the guilt of being scum. He is much looser here. 2) His move to consolidate the town on Rayn by abandoning his candidacy is objectively pro-town. My reservations against Rayn aside, it was very important at that point in the game for town to focus and consolidate. Agree | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On November 26 2020 07:06 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Slam: 1) His posting is so wildly different from his scum-game in Aperture that I find it difficult to believe he is mafia. As mafia, it almost seems like he's constantly fighting the guilt of being scum. He is much looser here. 2) His move to consolidate the town on Rayn by abandoning his candidacy is objectively pro-town. My reservations against Rayn aside, it was very important at that point in the game for town to focus and consolidate. I will be honest i dont really know what slam would or would not post as mafia, or why he would do that. But still, even if this looks like i am contradicting myself, to me it looks like he knew grack is gonna flip not mafia. I think that invalidates your point (2). Also what does that even matter if both me and trfel are town? one of us is gonna decide the lynch anyways and slam has very little to say in that. I guess we are both stuck with having meta as a layer of looking slam's / vivax's posts "objectively", if you know what i mean? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 26 2020 07:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hmm okay. We know Grack was not mafia. We also know that Vivax was trying to get the lynch OFF grack. The most likely result will be lynching FF, do you agree? Why does Vivax care? Or well, try to look like he cares when he doesnt have to? I feel that you are overly-fixated on the various "effects" of the lynch. Mafia do things all the time that have no specific purpose. For example, a very "common" mafia play is to scream like bloody murder against the lynch of one townie, only to direct the lynch towards another townie. This allows mafia to look like they are contributing and potentially tell the town "I told you so" if the person that they are defending flips town. Mafia do these things for the larger purpose of "blending in". "Act like you are contributing without actually contributing". As for Vivax's actions here, it is more appropriate to consider the utility of what he is doing, especially since he is an experienced and capable town player. Here, his actions and posting are functionally useless, and his attempt to spread suspicion on several targets only hampers town's ability to consolidate on a lynch. Additionally, Vivax doesn't seem to have any reason to believe that Grack is town. Why is he hard-defending him to that degree? If Grack is null, he basically has the same chance of flipping mafia that any rando lurker lynch would have. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 26 2020 07:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I will be honest i dont really know what slam would or would not post as mafia, or why he would do that. But still, even if this looks like i am contradicting myself, to me it looks like he knew grack is gonna flip not mafia. I think that invalidates your point (2). Also what does that even matter if both me and trfel are town? one of us is gonna decide the lynch anyways and slam has very little to say in that. I guess we are both stuck with having meta as a layer of looking slam's / vivax's posts "objectively", if you know what i mean? Problem is, you could justify lynching Slam in literally any game he plays if you only look at what he is "objectively" doing. Anyway, I am curious why you feel that Vivax's meta makes him very town here, given he had a relatively strong performance in his last scum game. Also, I don't get the sense that he is reading anything carefully. The way he played the end of Day 1 seems incredibly lazy. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On November 26 2020 07:16 Hapahauli wrote: As for Vivax's actions here, it is more appropriate to consider the utility of what he is doing, especially since he is an experienced and capable town player. Here, his actions and posting are functionally useless, and his attempt to spread suspicion on several targets only hampers town's ability to consolidate on a lynch. Additionally, Vivax doesn't seem to have any reason to believe that Grack is town. Why is he hard-defending him to that degree? If Grack is null, he basically has the same chance of flipping mafia that any rando lurker lynch would have. Okay, at least on general level i agree for the first part. You might be right here. As for the second part i can think of townie answer but i am gonna let Vivax say his piece on this. | ||
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but it seems slightly town-motivated) because it shows that he is here, present, an cares about the game. He didn't really need to do anything, but he's making reads and is invested in them.
