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On November 26 2020 06:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 06:48 Alakaslam wrote:On November 26 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 26 2020 06:40 Alakaslam wrote:On November 26 2020 05:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 26 2020 04:58 Alakaslam wrote:
I am beginning to think it is Trfel Hapa now though. The wifom js deep Elaborate please. Where does this come from? It was just so weird, they were off in their own corner and I saw no real particularly townie thing from them. Lots of good stuff, but scum can do good too. It’s how you swindle town. The problem i see here is that it should be quite clear why i decided to change my lynch preference, as i said so. After that you start thinking Hapa and Trfel are mafia, not TT anymore, who was btw one of the people who at least quickly jumped on Grack is mafia train. Like i would be totally fine with your eod if you started yelling me "look this super scummy TT is gonna make you change the lynch!!" but no, that's not what you did. Even though TT technically at least possibly played a role in that. Another thing is that you had no problem with me lynching FF while you didn't think he was the best lynch. Suddenly there was a big nono when i move to some other target that is STILL not your preferred lynch. Think about this though. It’s NAI. If Grack were scum, that would implicate me. No it would implicate you MORE. It still may make you mafia because mafia often times react in completely retarded ways on something they dont expect to happen.
Ok
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On November 26 2020 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hell even his post after flip he said he assumed grack flipped town. Why dont you fucking look at the flip as first thing you come back after deadline if you are town???????
Can you elaborate?
I get that Slam posted an answer to your question, and then posted:
On November 26 2020 06:46 Alakaslam wrote:
Eh. Yeah I am surprised by the flip, thought he was town.
...but that doesn't mean that he assumed grack flipped town. He said he was surprised and thought he would flip town.
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On November 26 2020 07:19 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 07:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 26 2020 07:06 Hapahauli wrote:
Regarding Slam:
1) His posting is so wildly different from his scum-game in Aperture that I find it difficult to believe he is mafia. As mafia, it almost seems like he's constantly fighting the guilt of being scum. He is much looser here.
2) His move to consolidate the town on Rayn by abandoning his candidacy is objectively pro-town. My reservations against Rayn aside, it was very important at that point in the game for town to focus and consolidate. I will be honest i dont really know what slam would or would not post as mafia, or why he would do that. But still, even if this looks like i am contradicting myself, to me it looks like he knew grack is gonna flip not mafia. I think that invalidates your point (2). Also what does that even matter if both me and trfel are town? one of us is gonna decide the lynch anyways and slam has very little to say in that. I guess we are both stuck with having meta as a layer of looking slam's / vivax's posts "objectively", if you know what i mean?  Problem is, you could justify lynching Slam in literally any game he plays if you only look at what he is "objectively" doing. Anyway, I am curious why you feel that Vivax's meta makes him very town here, given he had a relatively strong performance in his last scum game. Also, I don't get the sense that he is reading anything carefully. The way he played the end of Day 1 seems incredibly lazy.
That's not true. For Slam. At least i don't think so.
Because Vivax tends to disagree with everything i say and one of us tends to die early in case we are both town. I dont generally read his posts very carefully because they are not much of use to me. I kinda just look like if he looks like he is town or not. Also as i said, it's one game. I dont care if it is recent or not, but i have seen Vivax play mafia maybe 10 times if not more and one "irrationality" in pattern doesn't make a difference for me. That's what i do, especially D1.
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On November 26 2020 07:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hell even his post after flip he said he assumed grack flipped town. Why dont you fucking look at the flip as first thing you come back after deadline if you are town??????? Can you elaborate? I get that Slam posted an answer to your question, and then posted: Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 06:46 Alakaslam wrote:
Eh. Yeah I am surprised by the flip, thought he was town. ...but that doesn't mean that he assumed grack flipped town. He said he was surprised and thought he would flip town.
I dont care if he answered me or not before he posted that. When a lynch happens, especially one that you're strongly against (or for), or look like you are, the first thing a townie does is go look at the flip and what it is (if you are not already F5'ing all the time). Then you start posting whatever you start posting after you see new information (unless youre mafia ofc, because you already knoew if it is a mafia flip or not). What Slam did didn't look like that for me.
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Well in this case the first answer to me also matters, because like what the fuck if grack would have been mafia are hapa and trfel still scum or what?
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I have a hard time with reads that attribute a "normal thought process" to Slam tbh.
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Let me ask you this Slam:
When i asked you about your scumreads on Hapa and Trfel, why did you decide to answer me before looking at the flip? I mean like, if Grack had flipped mafia you should have said "i am dumb fuck me" and that is a reasonable answer.
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On November 26 2020 07:32 Hapahauli wrote:
I have a hard time with reads that attribute a "normal thought process" to Slam tbh.
I dont think there is "normal thought process". I mean like i often times think this when i am town, i could probably make a case on anyone in this game if i was mafia, and i could make it look like "normal thought process" and probably out-argue pretty much everyone. That's also why i get annoyed about people thinking i am mafia because i am staying more calm. It's like... wtf... Noone can actually even read me properly i think, aside from maybe marv.
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On November 26 2020 07:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Let me ask you this Slam:
When i asked you about your scumreads on Hapa and Trfel, why did you decide to answer me before looking at the flip? I mean like, if Grack had flipped mafia you should have said "i am dumb fuck me" and that is a reasonable answer.
You know hapa was right?
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Jockmcplop
- Jockmcplop spent much of his Day 1 pushing suspicion at Alakaslam, only to say that he wasn't ever scumreading him
+ Show Spoiler [explanation] +Jockmcplop's posts pushing suspicion at Alakaslam: On November 24 2020 20:50 Jockmcplop wrote:
Does it look to anyone else like slam just wants the protection of being mayor but none of the responsibility? I'm not sure if its mafia motivated but it puts a different slant on his mayoral run. He's portraying it as the utilitarian option where town gets to choose but to me it just looks like he's asking people to early town read him for no real reason. On November 24 2020 21:09 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 09:00 Trfel wrote:On November 24 2020 08:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 24 2020 08:52 Trfel wrote:
For me, Alakaslam's mayor candidacy feels genuine. While I don't necessarily agree with his "pliable" argument, it seems to come from a town perspective. I also like his tone this game, it feels like a good balance between serious and playful, which I think is hard for Alakaslam as scum. I've seen him play both very joking and very serious as mafia, but a balance like shown here is harder to achieve. I think i agree with other parts of your post, but why would Slam NOT candidate himself as mayor as mafia? Why would anyone, regardless of alignment, per se not wanna be mayor? On November 24 2020 08:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why do you think there is 3 mafia? Slight possibility, no? Given the KP formula in the setup post rather than just saying 1 KP. really? so mylo D2 if the mayor lynches town? even worse if the mayor/pardoner happens to be mafia.... As to the second part, I dunno, I didn't really think a ton about it. I just don't count anything 100% out in terms of setup. It doesn't really matter anyway, no? I am not saying that Alakaslam wouldn't try to make himself mayor as mafia. He likely would. I feel that the way he has gone about it is genuine and towny. Hi trfel! Can you see how his run might not seem to me to come from a town perspective at all? Sure it looks like it but also you can also just as easily look at it as mafia trying to get free protection without having to risk anything because town gets the blame for the lynch and not slam. On November 24 2020 22:33 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 06:34 Alakaslam wrote:
So, I think the campaign is actually in itself (due to timing) it’s own credence to the fact that my pliability is a good thing. We should vote for him because his campaign validates him as town by its very nature? But he could just as easily be making this argument as mafia and playing the odds of a townkill by consent on day 1 for the free protection. He shouldn't get any towncred for the promise to do what town decides. Excluding the way he pushes suspicion at me (Trfel) for thinking that Alakaslam's mayoral campaign was towny, or posts including that. Regardless, Jockmcplop clearly criticized Alakaslam's mayoral campaign. On November 25 2020 23:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 23:30 Hapahauli wrote:
Mornin'.
So we have a lynch in 6 hours. This discussion needs to be about a) who is mayor, and b) who town wants dead. There are too many people talking about light suspicions and townreads. That is not important right now.
Trfel for mayor. Whoever is mayor should shoot Grack or Shockeyy.
I think Grack is mafia, and I think Trfel brought up the best point against him: he has been relatively active and running for mayor, but reading his filter, I have no sense of what is "platform" is and who he even wants lynched. That seems like the hallmark of scum "looking like they want to contribute."
Shockeyy is remarkably disengaged in this game. He is existing, but again, no idea of what he wants to accomplish beyond his mayoral preferences. I disagree that townreads aren't important right now. They pretty much narrow down the pool of who can be mayor. Clearly shockeyy has no people townreading him so he won't be mayor. Out of the people claiming they want to be mayor, only slam and ticktock have said what they will do if elected. That's a problem. Out of those two I would probably prefer slam because at least he's been here enough that i'm confident he knows exactly what is happening. Emphasis mine. And: On November 26 2020 01:50 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 01:38 Grackaroni wrote:On November 26 2020 01:24 Vivax wrote:On November 26 2020 00:54 Grackaroni wrote:
If I were mayor I'd kill Ticktock. I think he's less comfortable playing scum and more likely to lurk through the day because of his role than FF. (I know he's playing WoW but the thread isn't overwhelmingly large)
I wouldn't be upset though if any of FF/ShoCkey/TT are lynched.
Of active players Trfel is most likely mafia but I wouldn't gamble on that today, though I'd definitely like to avoid him being elected. What's your take on Jock? His post about Trfel was a good one and I think he has the right view on Rayn. I'm not sure what his reasoning was for changing his mind on Slam. Although I didn't think slam's campaign naturally made him town, i never scumread him and still don't. So then what was the purpose of these posts about Alakaslam? If it stuck out so much, why didn't it result in a scumread? Or even an "I don't want this guy to be mayor"? It makes no sense from a town perspective. Jockmcplop didn't actually care or follow up on his posts about Alakaslam, despite having valid reasons to suspect Alakaslam and definitely valid reasons to be suspicious of his mayoral campaign.
- Didn't care to push or lynch his only scumread (me)
+ Show Spoiler [explanation] +Jockmcplop was critical of my play in what I can only assume to be a scumread: On November 24 2020 22:44 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 08:52 Trfel wrote:
I don't think anything people say would change my opinion of Alakaslam, I don't ask to figure out more about Alakaslam's alignment, rather I asked to try and help figure out yours. Your answer isn't particularly helpful, but it's also understandable, so not much was gained. Oh well.
For me, Alakaslam's mayor candidacy feels genuine. While I don't necessarily agree with his "pliable" argument, it seems to come from a town perspective. I also like his tone this game, it feels like a good balance between serious and playful, which I think is hard for Alakaslam as scum. I've seen him play both very joking and very serious as mafia, but a balance like shown here is harder to achieve.
This post is bizarre. He says he doesn't think anything anyone will say will change his opinion of slam. But then later on: Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 15:28 Trfel wrote:
That's an interesting point about Alakaslam, I'll have ro think about that. His persistence about the mayor stuff with little substance is giving me pause too. Also: Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 08:52 Trfel wrote:
For me, Alakaslam's mayor candidacy feels genuine. While I don't necessarily agree with his "pliable" argument, it seems to come from a town perspective. I also like his tone this game, it feels like a good balance between serious and playful, which I think is hard for Alakaslam as scum. I've seen him play both very joking and very serious as mafia, but a balance like shown here is harder to achieve.
Slam's pliable argument IS his entire campaign. Vote for him because he must be town because a vote for him is a vote for whatever town decides, therefore he must be town. I don't see how that comes from a town perspective. Trfel's start is all full of contradictions. He seems ultra confident about slam's tone and then seems to drop that line of thought so easily. On November 25 2020 18:45 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 15:56 Trfel wrote:
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.
I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time. I thought I made it pretty clear I was more critical of you townreading slam than i was of slam's run. You are exactly right that slam's run *could* be from a town perspective, but my problem was that you immediately assumed it was from a town perspective and didn't even consider the idea that mafia could be doing the same thing for mafia reasons. On November 25 2020 23:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 23:30 Hapahauli wrote:
Mornin'.
So we have a lynch in 6 hours. This discussion needs to be about a) who is mayor, and b) who town wants dead. There are too many people talking about light suspicions and townreads. That is not important right now.
Trfel for mayor. Whoever is mayor should shoot Grack or Shockeyy.
I think Grack is mafia, and I think Trfel brought up the best point against him: he has been relatively active and running for mayor, but reading his filter, I have no sense of what is "platform" is and who he even wants lynched. That seems like the hallmark of scum "looking like they want to contribute."
Shockeyy is remarkably disengaged in this game. He is existing, but again, no idea of what he wants to accomplish beyond his mayoral preferences. I disagree that townreads aren't important right now. They pretty much narrow down the pool of who can be mayor. Clearly shockeyy has no people townreading him so he won't be mayor. Out of the people claiming they want to be mayor, only slam and ticktock have said what they will do if elected. That's a problem. Out of those two I would probably prefer slam because at least he's been here enough that i'm confident he knows exactly what is happening. I'm unvoting grack because I don't feel like he has continued to engage with the mayor thing at all really like he never really wanted to be mayor in the first place. Trfel seems like an odd choice to me. He hasn't said he wanted to be mayor and has given no indication of what he would do if he was mayor. I can't vote for him anyway. (emphasis mine) This is by far the strongest suspicion Jockmcplop has shared in his entire filter. However, Jockmcplop never even directly says he is suspicious of me, or scumreading me, or anything to that effect. He never advocates for a lynch on me. In the end, he ends up slightly advocating for a lynch on Tictock: On November 26 2020 01:50 Jockmcplop wrote:slam:Will do what town decides grack:TT
TT:FeFe Rayn:FF or TT Fefe:TT maybe Shockeyy Trfel:me, shockeyy, FF, TT, Grack We need to get this down to 2 candidates who are trusted by town. Personally I would have one of grack/rayn as mayor and maybe slam as pardoner. I will probably revote grack just because I think TT has been super lazy just picking something Fefe said on the first page and leaving that as his scumread for the whole time.Show nested quote +On November 26 2020 01:38 Grackaroni wrote:On November 26 2020 01:24 Vivax wrote:On November 26 2020 00:54 Grackaroni wrote:
If I were mayor I'd kill Ticktock. I think he's less comfortable playing scum and more likely to lurk through the day because of his role than FF. (I know he's playing WoW but the thread isn't overwhelmingly large)
I wouldn't be upset though if any of FF/ShoCkey/TT are lynched.
Of active players Trfel is most likely mafia but I wouldn't gamble on that today, though I'd definitely like to avoid him being elected. What's your take on Jock? His post about Trfel was a good one and I think he has the right view on Rayn. I'm not sure what his reasoning was for changing his mind on Slam. Although I didn't think slam's campaign naturally made him town, i never scumread him and still don't. (emphasis mine) Calling Tictock lazy, not even mafia. This means that Jockmcplop is content having essentially no scumreads, almost no suspicions, the entire Day 1. He can try to explain it away as a mayoral election, yet he still says it's important to know what the candidates will do if elected. This isn't the insightful town Jockmcplop I am used to seeing. It's not a matter of time either, as Jockmcplop said he had plenty of time to play today: On November 25 2020 21:38 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 21:20 Trfel wrote:On November 25 2020 18:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 25 2020 15:56 Trfel wrote:
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.
I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time. I thought I made it pretty clear I was more critical of you townreading slam than i was of slam's run. You are exactly right that slam's run *could* be from a town perspective, but my problem was that you immediately assumed it was from a town perspective and didn't even consider the idea that mafia could be doing the same thing for mafia reasons. @First paragraph: I see, sorry I missed that. @Second paragraph: It's the way that Alakaslam was going about his campaign that seemed towny to me, not the fact about it. Mostly a tonal read at first. I do think that the "pliability" argument is more likely to come from town, as (in my opinion) lynch blame doesn't really exist and as a result, it feels a bit strange for mafia to come up with that argument. But the tonal read was the main part of my read.
In other news, I really do want you to be town this game  But right now, I'm just not seeing it. You feel minimally involved and not very invested. I assume you disagree with my assessment? No you're exactly right. I haven't had a whole lot of time so far but i'm here all day (minus video game playing time of course) today so you'll get more out of me. Yet even in a short game, seems content with having no scumreads. The simplest and most likely explanation is that he is mafia.
Conclusion
Jockmcplop hasn't accomplished anything this game. He has no scumreads, almost no suspicions even, yet seems very content with this. His words and posts also don't match the (lack of) conclusions he draws from them. In combination with not caring about who is lynched Day 1, Jockmcplop is very likely mafia.
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Honestly, I don't remember anything that Jock said this game, which probably makes him mafia.
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On November 26 2020 07:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I heavily disagree here. I get that he hasn't made any single glaring blunder, but he still reads very much like mafia to me. In fact, I'd say that he's made some basic mistakes, in his reads not matching the suspicion he has been throwing (especially towards Alakaslam).
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Well he can answer himself just like other people.
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On November 26 2020 00:34 Trfel wrote:
I am okay with being mayor, I'm okay with not being mayor. Whatever works best.
Regardless, I think the lynch should be between (in no particular order) Jockmcplop, ShoCkeyy, Fecalfeast, Tictock, and Grackaroni. I'll try and focus on these people. Maybe less inclined to kill Jockmcplop? As his answer earlier is what I was hoping to hear, and I'm interested to see what he does with more time to play.
To filter diving. I'll likely be around for a while.
What is this answer youre talking about here?
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On November 26 2020 07:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
right on what?
My point.
Literally everything. Stop getting hung up on stupid timings of posts.
You are literally assuming a false thing, so I can’t answer you.
I obviously read the flip first. I didn’t expect 3p this game since it was full size. You asked a question; that was more important than my reactive remarks about the flip.
Grack did not play like scum. Well, I wasn’t exactly wrong, but Hapa was also right as Grack was still anti town.
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@raynpelikoneet:On November 25 2020 21:38 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 21:20 Trfel wrote:On November 25 2020 18:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 25 2020 15:56 Trfel wrote:
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.
I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time. I thought I made it pretty clear I was more critical of you townreading slam than i was of slam's run. You are exactly right that slam's run *could* be from a town perspective, but my problem was that you immediately assumed it was from a town perspective and didn't even consider the idea that mafia could be doing the same thing for mafia reasons. @First paragraph: I see, sorry I missed that. @Second paragraph: It's the way that Alakaslam was going about his campaign that seemed towny to me, not the fact about it. Mostly a tonal read at first. I do think that the "pliability" argument is more likely to come from town, as (in my opinion) lynch blame doesn't really exist and as a result, it feels a bit strange for mafia to come up with that argument. But the tonal read was the main part of my read.
In other news, I really do want you to be town this game But right now, I'm just not seeing it. You feel minimally involved and not very invested. I assume you disagree with my assessment? No you're exactly right. I haven't had a whole lot of time so far but i'm here all day (minus video game playing time of course) today so you'll get more out of me. This answer, as to why Jockmcplop felt uninvolved and not very present in the game.
It was an answer I expected to hear regardless of alignment but I wanted to see how he said it. The fact that he said he should have more time today and then that wasn't reflected in his play at all is very telling in my opinion.
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On November 26 2020 08:14 Alakaslam wrote:My point. Literally everything. Stop getting hung up on stupid timings of posts. You are literally assuming a false thing, so I can’t answer you. I obviously read the flip first. I didn’t expect 3p this game since it was full size. You asked a question; that was more important than my reactive remarks about the flip. Grack did not play like scum. Well, I wasn’t exactly wrong, but Hapa was also right as Grack was still anti town.
So you think Hapa is town and not that Hapa and Trfel are mafia anymore?
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In other news, I'm starting to think less and less that raynpelikoneet is mafia. And I'm wondering more about Fecalfeast. Though I'm not sure if Fecalfeast would be quite this useless as mafia? Probably a terrible metric.
Not really confident at all on who else is mafia (regardless of if I am right or not on Jockmcplop), unfortunately.
Also, I won't be around for the deadline tomorrow, since it's a night deadline that should be fine though.
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401
EPT
