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[N]A Mostly Normal Game of Mafia - Page 17

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Fecalfeast
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada11355 Posts
November 25 2020 05:49 GMT
#321
On November 25 2020 11:19 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I also love how Fefe agrees with me but decided I’m scummy for essentially agreeing with him.

i know right
ModeratorINFLATE YOUR POST COUNT; PLAY TL MAFIA
Fecalfeast
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada11355 Posts
November 25 2020 05:50 GMT
#322
slam can be mayor ithink
ModeratorINFLATE YOUR POST COUNT; PLAY TL MAFIA
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 25 2020 05:57 GMT
#323
@Fecalfeast, why can't Alakaslam have a fun tone as mafia, especially given that he much prefers the mafia alignment?

Why are you suspicious of Hapahauli?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 25 2020 06:32 GMT
#324
Town

Town Lean
Hapahauli + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
Hapahauli has been providing critical thinking and has been very present this game. He's pushing his own ideas (suspicious of Grackaroni).


Null
Alakaslam + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I admit I've been having some trouble reading Alakaslam this game. My toneread on him suggests that he is town, but his mayoral campaign has been a bit suspect as well.

I dunno. The recent game where he was mafia, he just came in and started sharing random thoughts and relevant reads. Here he's been much more joking but still somewhat connected to the thread. But the substance is really lacking. He's shared one suspicion (? if it's even that), one scumread (soon retracted), and one list post. And he said he'd have more time to play so he'd be sharing all his thoughts.

Beats me.

ShoCkeyy
Grackaroni + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I stand by the points earlier about Grackaroni's response to me calling out his post. Even moreso than the initial post, his follow-up felt quite off. However, outside of that I could see Grackaroni being town this game. Really, the main other thing I find notable about his filter is that he hasn't really found anything suspicious, except for possibly my interaction with him (which he never really followed up on since then, only answering questions about it; in other words, he hasn't followed up his read on me, or tried to figure out my alignment since then). Despite having a mayoral campaign, he seems very unconcerned about who he wants to lynch.

Tictock + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
He hasn't really said much at all. At least he does have a scumread (Fecalfeast), which is more than I can say for some others. But I'm unfortunately not confident in reading him given the low amount of content.

Fecalfeast
Vivax

Mafia Lean
Jockmcplop + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I thought there was more in Jockmcplop's filter, but while reading it through again, it's actually quite underwhelming. Jockmcplop presents exactly three ideas:
  • Alakaslam's mayoral campaign is suspicious
  • Grackaroni pointing it out makes him towny
  • Trfel is inconsistent
While there are other things that have happened this game. Jockmcplop seems to have focused on Alakaslam and the things surrounding that, while not paying any attention to the rest of the thread (raynpelikoneet and Hapahauli's back and forth, specifically).

Jockmcplop's play has been pretty bleh so far. It's not terrible, but unremarkable and lacking the critical thinking, substance, and quality that he usually shows as town.

raynpelikoneet + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I'll start this off by saying that raynpelikoneet is very capable as mafia, in my opinion. With that said, he seems to not care a ton about his reads this game, especially his scumreads. It almost feels disconnected.

To clarify, I mentioned two points earlier about raynpelikoneet: his read on Alakaslam, and lack of stubbornness. I don't think those are very strong anymore, the timing of his read change on Alakaslam matches, and I will always understand/allow someone trying a different playstyle (given that the change isn't mafia motivated).

But his scumreads. First he was suspicious of Hapahauli, but when he was going to bed he posted about his townreads instead. And he didn't really discuss his read on Hapahauli much either. He's explained it of course, but he hasn't been pushing it, which confuses me. Maybe there's some reason why (as town) raynpelikoneet wouldn't want to pursue that at this time, but it's a trend with his other reads too. He is suspicious of ShoCkeyy for being disconnected and not following along (which to me at least is hard to tell, ShoCkeyy has a tendency to not contribute much substance, especially early on). And he is suspicious of Fecalfeast but I don't believe he ever said why. And he's unsure about me and Hapahauli. He later says that his reads are mostly POE, and acknowledges that ShoCkeyy doesn't have reads early on.

It just doesn't quite add up for me. He's campaigning to be mayor, but he's not really got any strong scumreads, just a POE. For a player who has been very present and has been sharing his thoughts, working off of a POE with near-instant townreads and not having solid reasons for scumreading lurkers seems very suspect.

I need to keep thinking about this but raynpelikoneet feels very present in this game, but uninvolved where it matters. Like he's managed to take a backseat despite constantly posting his thoughts. And I feel that that makes him more likely mafia.


Mafia

I know, way too many people are null I'm disappointed about it too. I'll be around for the next hour or so and keep thinking about it, if anyone wants to talk. I'd like to reread Vivax too, I feel like I should have a better read on him by this point.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 25 2020 06:56 GMT
#325
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.

I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
November 25 2020 07:37 GMT
#326
On November 25 2020 14:57 Trfel wrote:
@Fecalfeast, why can't Alakaslam have a fun tone as mafia, especially given that he much prefers the mafia alignment?

Why are you suspicious of Hapahauli?

Because I also wanna win when I’m mafia

And also because I can


Yes all those noises it’s the best

If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
November 25 2020 07:40 GMT
#327
On November 25 2020 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Town

Town Lean
Hapahauli + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
Hapahauli has been providing critical thinking and has been very present this game. He's pushing his own ideas (suspicious of Grackaroni).


Null
Alakaslam + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I admit I've been having some trouble reading Alakaslam this game. My toneread on him suggests that he is town, but his mayoral campaign has been a bit suspect as well.

I dunno. The recent game where he was mafia, he just came in and started sharing random thoughts and relevant reads. Here he's been much more joking but still somewhat connected to the thread. But the substance is really lacking. He's shared one suspicion (? if it's even that), one scumread (soon retracted), and one list post. And he said he'd have more time to play so he'd be sharing all his thoughts.

Beats me.

ShoCkeyy
Grackaroni + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I stand by the points earlier about Grackaroni's response to me calling out his post. Even moreso than the initial post, his follow-up felt quite off. However, outside of that I could see Grackaroni being town this game. Really, the main other thing I find notable about his filter is that he hasn't really found anything suspicious, except for possibly my interaction with him (which he never really followed up on since then, only answering questions about it; in other words, he hasn't followed up his read on me, or tried to figure out my alignment since then). Despite having a mayoral campaign, he seems very unconcerned about who he wants to lynch.

Tictock + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
He hasn't really said much at all. At least he does have a scumread (Fecalfeast), which is more than I can say for some others. But I'm unfortunately not confident in reading him given the low amount of content.

Fecalfeast
Vivax

Mafia Lean
Jockmcplop + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I thought there was more in Jockmcplop's filter, but while reading it through again, it's actually quite underwhelming. Jockmcplop presents exactly three ideas:
  • Alakaslam's mayoral campaign is suspicious
  • Grackaroni pointing it out makes him towny
  • Trfel is inconsistent
While there are other things that have happened this game. Jockmcplop seems to have focused on Alakaslam and the things surrounding that, while not paying any attention to the rest of the thread (raynpelikoneet and Hapahauli's back and forth, specifically).

Jockmcplop's play has been pretty bleh so far. It's not terrible, but unremarkable and lacking the critical thinking, substance, and quality that he usually shows as town.

raynpelikoneet + Show Spoiler [explanation] +
I'll start this off by saying that raynpelikoneet is very capable as mafia, in my opinion. With that said, he seems to not care a ton about his reads this game, especially his scumreads. It almost feels disconnected.

To clarify, I mentioned two points earlier about raynpelikoneet: his read on Alakaslam, and lack of stubbornness. I don't think those are very strong anymore, the timing of his read change on Alakaslam matches, and I will always understand/allow someone trying a different playstyle (given that the change isn't mafia motivated).

But his scumreads. First he was suspicious of Hapahauli, but when he was going to bed he posted about his townreads instead. And he didn't really discuss his read on Hapahauli much either. He's explained it of course, but he hasn't been pushing it, which confuses me. Maybe there's some reason why (as town) raynpelikoneet wouldn't want to pursue that at this time, but it's a trend with his other reads too. He is suspicious of ShoCkeyy for being disconnected and not following along (which to me at least is hard to tell, ShoCkeyy has a tendency to not contribute much substance, especially early on). And he is suspicious of Fecalfeast but I don't believe he ever said why. And he's unsure about me and Hapahauli. He later says that his reads are mostly POE, and acknowledges that ShoCkeyy doesn't have reads early on.

It just doesn't quite add up for me. He's campaigning to be mayor, but he's not really got any strong scumreads, just a POE. For a player who has been very present and has been sharing his thoughts, working off of a POE with near-instant townreads and not having solid reasons for scumreading lurkers seems very suspect.

I need to keep thinking about this but raynpelikoneet feels very present in this game, but uninvolved where it matters. Like he's managed to take a backseat despite constantly posting his thoughts. And I feel that that makes him more likely mafia.


Mafia

I know, way too many people are null I'm disappointed about it too. I'll be around for the next hour or so and keep thinking about it, if anyone wants to talk. I'd like to reread Vivax too, I feel like I should have a better read on him by this point.

Hijole TT got us list posting for mayor.

Be scummy! Get elected!

lol. Let’s hunt
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
November 25 2020 07:41 GMT
#328
Sadly I think I’m a classic case of Zenigata though, as much as everyone wants to be Lupin
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 25 2020 08:06 GMT
#329
Sorry Alakaslam, I'm not really sure much of what you are talking about

If you're still around I'd be happy to talk, though I'll likely go to sleep soon. What do you think of Jockmcplop?
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
November 25 2020 09:45 GMT
#330
On November 25 2020 15:56 Trfel wrote:
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.

I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time.


I thought I made it pretty clear I was more critical of you townreading slam than i was of slam's run.

You are exactly right that slam's run *could* be from a town perspective, but my problem was that you immediately assumed it was from a town perspective and didn't even consider the idea that mafia could be doing the same thing for mafia reasons.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21978 Posts
November 25 2020 11:06 GMT
#331
On November 25 2020 09:14 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2020 06:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I voted Trfel as mayor for now. I like his posting style this game. He seems very pro town to me. Only mafia would self vote.

*eyes slam*

What kind of bullshit is this? Basically every mayor has done that no?


Got to agree here. Only mafia would self vote is an odd thought to have and in this case is overexplaining it. Feels nervous-y.
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
November 25 2020 11:13 GMT
#332
Stop the presses! It’s a vote count!.

Alakaslam (2): Alakaslam, Fecalfeast
ShoCkeyy (0):
Jockmcplop (0):
Grackaroni (2): Grackaroni, Jockmcplop
Tictock (0):
Raynpelikoneet (1): Raynpelikoneet
Fecalfeast (0): Fecalfeast
Vivax (0):
Hapahauli (0):
Trfel (2): Hapahauli, ShoCkeyy

Not Voting: Tictock, Vivax, Trfel.

Currently Grackaroni is set to be elected mayor and Trfel will be pardoner.

Voting is mandatory.


Day 1 ends in , on Wednesday, Nov 25 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21978 Posts
November 25 2020 11:16 GMT
#333
I'm caught up now. *retracts slam scumread and throws a glance at Hapa*
Also less crazy today.

Rayn could you talk a bit about your scumreads? You seem very calm, very diplomatic so far. I'd expect you to have sunk your teeth into someone by now in a more rain-y way.
You explained you don't want to jump on Hapa then jumped on Hapa in the same post for not wanting to be mayor (I think?), that's the most fleshed out read I spotted yet somehow he ended up on the bottom of the list when you mentioned other scumreads.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 25 2020 12:20 GMT
#334
On November 25 2020 18:45 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2020 15:56 Trfel wrote:
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.

I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time.


I thought I made it pretty clear I was more critical of you townreading slam than i was of slam's run.

You are exactly right that slam's run *could* be from a town perspective, but my problem was that you immediately assumed it was from a town perspective and didn't even consider the idea that mafia could be doing the same thing for mafia reasons.
@First paragraph: I see, sorry I missed that.

@Second paragraph: It's the way that Alakaslam was going about his campaign that seemed towny to me, not the fact about it. Mostly a tonal read at first. I do think that the "pliability" argument is more likely to come from town, as (in my opinion) lynch blame doesn't really exist and as a result, it feels a bit strange for mafia to come up with that argument. But the tonal read was the main part of my read.

In other news, I really do want you to be town this game But right now, I'm just not seeing it. You feel minimally involved and not very invested. I assume you disagree with my assessment?
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
November 25 2020 12:35 GMT
#335
Is rayn's level of aggression in the thread really that alignment indicative on day 1?

hapa, trfel and vivax have all mentioned that they would expect rayn to be more aggressive, but that's not my experience of rayn on day 1. He tends to come into the game with a strategy and that continues until something triggers him, but that could be on day 1 or day 3 or any time. I've seen him play like this on day 1 before as town and as mafia.

I think rayn is town here. His interaction with hapa seems to be that he's trying to get a read on him, and I can see why rayn would focus on that given the player list, and I can't really see any mafia motivation in anything rayn has said/done so far. He just looks like he's trying to figure things out.

I really like this whole part of rayn's argument and it it pretty much mirrors what i was thinking at the time:

On November 25 2020 06:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I still don't know why Hapa doesn't want to be mayor. And it stinks. I dont necessarily buy the "i dont wanna be town leader" because to me it doesnt sit right. Why dont you want to lead the town if youre likely to be right (as you should at least think you are if youre town) and you are generally a good scumhunter? I just dont get it.

Especially coupled with one of Hapa's later posts:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2020 00:41 Hapahauli wrote:
In general, we should be voting for someone who 1) is valuable to the town if alive, and 2) has a reasonable chance of getting shot on N1. Slam does not fit category 2, even if he looks super town. Even if Grack starts looking more town, he also does not fit category 2.

Which of you everyone think Hapa does not fit these categories? Raise your hand and i will immediately call you mafia....

But that was not the main point. The main point was that i think both of Hapa and Trfel thinking it's a good observation that "rayn says he cannot read Slam and then reads him town anyways" is at best crappy as hell because good posts make people town and bad posts make them mafia most of the time. Slam made the best observation (at least in my mind -- and there should be no doubt about it for anyone who is reading the game properly) in the game at that point. No matter if i think i cant read slam i am going to give him town credit for that. Notably aswell, for Hapa this shouldnt be any surprise because in the last game i also said i cant read slam and i cant read acro and i was amongst the first to yell they are mafia....

So yeah there is that. Now i am going to look at the trfel/grack interaction and then post my reads.


Hapa always struck me as the kind of player that would step up for town so it set alarms off when he said he didn't want the responsibility.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
November 25 2020 12:38 GMT
#336
On November 25 2020 21:20 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2020 18:45 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 25 2020 15:56 Trfel wrote:
The more I think about it, the less I like Jockmcplop's criticisms of Alakaslam's mayoral run. I'm not sure how much incentive there is for mafia to want the mayor's bodyguard protection; how likely is it that mafia will be targeted with KP? There is no confirmed town KP, and a third party with KP (while not out of the question) would still have to target him, which is a bit strange too. Nothing Jockmcplop is saying is technically wrong: mafia could campaign to try and get the mayor protection and absolve themselves of responsibility by lynching town's target and getting townreads. But it's just not very compelling. Alakaslam could also be town doing exactly the same thing. The mafia motivation for that kind of play isn't really more compelling than the town motivation, I don't understand how it makes Alakaslam mafia.

I feel like I worded that poorly but it's late at night so I'm not sure if I can say it any better right now. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

I think Jockmcplop is likely my top suspect at this time.


I thought I made it pretty clear I was more critical of you townreading slam than i was of slam's run.

You are exactly right that slam's run *could* be from a town perspective, but my problem was that you immediately assumed it was from a town perspective and didn't even consider the idea that mafia could be doing the same thing for mafia reasons.
@First paragraph: I see, sorry I missed that.

@Second paragraph: It's the way that Alakaslam was going about his campaign that seemed towny to me, not the fact about it. Mostly a tonal read at first. I do think that the "pliability" argument is more likely to come from town, as (in my opinion) lynch blame doesn't really exist and as a result, it feels a bit strange for mafia to come up with that argument. But the tonal read was the main part of my read.

In other news, I really do want you to be town this game But right now, I'm just not seeing it. You feel minimally involved and not very invested. I assume you disagree with my assessment?



No you're exactly right. I haven't had a whole lot of time so far but i'm here all day (minus video game playing time of course) today so you'll get more out of me.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9651 Posts
November 25 2020 12:47 GMT
#337
On November 25 2020 05:00 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I guess no one trusts me


Shockeyy is PARANOID, man.
RIP Meatloaf <3
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
November 25 2020 14:02 GMT
#338
On November 25 2020 21:47 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2020 05:00 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I guess no one trusts me


Shockeyy is PARANOID, man.


I’m ok, not paranoid. Just wanted to see if I can get something going for myself, but it didn’t happen, so it was more sadness than paranoid.
Life?
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
November 25 2020 14:30 GMT
#339
Mornin'.

So we have a lynch in 6 hours. This discussion needs to be about a) who is mayor, and b) who town wants dead. There are too many people talking about light suspicions and townreads. That is not important right now.

Trfel for mayor. Whoever is mayor should shoot Grack or Shockeyy.

I think Grack is mafia, and I think Trfel brought up the best point against him: he has been relatively active and running for mayor, but reading his filter, I have no sense of what is "platform" is and who he even wants lynched. That seems like the hallmark of scum "looking like they want to contribute."

Shockeyy is remarkably disengaged in this game. He is existing, but again, no idea of what he wants to accomplish beyond his mayoral preferences.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21978 Posts
November 25 2020 14:40 GMT
#340
On November 25 2020 23:30 Hapahauli wrote:
Mornin'.

So we have a lynch in 6 hours. This discussion needs to be about a) who is mayor, and b) who town wants dead. There are too many people talking about light suspicions and townreads. That is not important right now.

Trfel for mayor. Whoever is mayor should shoot Grack or Shockeyy.

I think Grack is mafia, and I think Trfel brought up the best point against him: he has been relatively active and running for mayor, but reading his filter, I have no sense of what is "platform" is and who he even wants lynched. That seems like the hallmark of scum "looking like they want to contribute."

Shockeyy is remarkably disengaged in this game. He is existing, but again, no idea of what he wants to accomplish beyond his mayoral preferences.


I think he just wanted to make a funny entrance. Don't really see him being mafia atm.

Shockeyy is always like that. If I'd kill him then not because I think he's scum but because I will never be sure about what he is, probably.

Someone mentioned earlier that Jock seemed less analytical than in his usual town games and I'll agree. I also find it odd in his case that he doesn't think Trfel is town given when they have been teammates and imo Trfel doesn't post like in that game (the "Trfel help" one).

That said my lynch pool atm would be something along Shockeyy, Jock, Fefe. Maybe TickTock because he kinda stopped playing after getting townread by a few.
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