On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
I don't really see much of note currently. Interested by Holyflare voting for [UoN]Sentinel but I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment myself. Anything you want to talk about?
On March 26 2020 07:04 Holyflare wrote: Time to vote Sentinel. Struggles with thread entrance, copies my nonchalant-ness to LS. Reads fake, easy mafia.
##vote Sentinel
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
why?
Vivax typically has trouble Day 1 as mafia, here he seems present and quite comfortable.
in my mind, Vivax doesn't have trouble D1 as mafia, he has trouble all game as mafia, so he can tryhard early but usually run out of steam sooner or later. I didn't think anything he posted was that "comfortable", I didn't even understand his joke lol
Lemme look and see if I can find the comfortable post I was thinking about (phone posting currently). I'm happy with my read currently, but I'm not going to be torn up if you and LightningStrike don't get on board until later.
On March 26 2020 07:04 Holyflare wrote: Time to vote Sentinel. Struggles with thread entrance, copies my nonchalant-ness to LS. Reads fake, easy mafia.
##vote Sentinel
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
You are mafia, simple as that.
is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move?
Who am I voting for?
It's probably the latter, Rels
##vote [UoN]Sentinel
This post makes no sense at all. Why are you voting for yourself if you think Holyflare's push is only to get the game started and not what he really thinks?!
Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote: Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
Hi Mr. Truffles!
Hi Mr. Chezinu! Have you determined anything about the floating teddy bear?
@GlowingBear, you seem to have severely misunderstood my post.
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote: Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
The first paragraph, that you described as noncomittal, is actually the best point against KelsierSC that has been brought up by someone other than Holyflare. See the quotes in question:
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
As to the second part, I saw something I didn't understand, so I asked about it. Holyflare explained it, it makes sense now.
Yes, I'm pretty suspicious of KelsierSC. That's generally what it means when someone says they agree with a large case on them, and then provide additional reasons to scumread them. However I see no reason to vote currently.
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote: Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
Hi Mr. Truffles!
Hi Mr. Chezinu! Have you determined anything about the floating teddy bear?
@GlowingBear, you seem to have severely misunderstood my post.
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote: Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
The first paragraph, that you described as noncomittal, is actually the best point against KelsierSC that has been brought up by someone other than Holyflare. See the quotes in question:
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
(emphasis mine)
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:27 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about?
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
I believe this is actually very townie of Kelsier. He came to the thread, posted his impressions in a very objective manner. Having bad reads isn't alignment indicative, or it is, at least, town lean. I had the same impression Kelsier had with LS. The interaction feels natural.
Who would you vote for now?
If I were to vote currently I'd vote for KelsierSC, but I have some suspicions of Palmar I want to investigate further. But I'm going to play some Left for Dead 2 with a friend for a while. I tend to be more active in late evenings (US time).
What about the interaction made you feel like LightningStrike was town? I'm quite null on him currently. Like, what about it was towny?
I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark.
While I like where Palmar has placed his vote (KelsierSC), I don't like the rest of his play at all. And that's the main thing that has me concerned currently.
Palmar typically has strong Day 1 play. He's very good at finding mafia on Day 1, and I believe he has one of the best Day 1 push mafia percentages on the site. However, that isn't seen in this game at all. Palmar has been almost entirely absent, despite having no excuse and nothing else to do (yay coronavirus). And it's not even a weekend. Furthermore, in the little time Palmar has been here, his presence has been extremely lacking. He sheeped Holyflare to vote onto KelsierSC (by itself not a bad choice), however the rest of his posts lack reasoning entirely:
On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote: also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
On March 26 2020 21:49 Vivax wrote: Let's keep it simple? Sent's first post was a joke about the opening post, possibly a result of him staring at it not knowing what to write. Then he became uncooperative and generally didn't look like he was having fun, but rather resorting to mimicking a zero-fucks attitude to provoke too-scummy-to-be-scum theories.
I like the wagon. We don't have to bite our teeth out to convince Kelsier.
##Vote: Sent
This is a fine vote as well.
Honestly I'd kill any of the 4 I mentioned.
On March 26 2020 22:58 Palmar wrote: I have upgraded shockeyy to definitely mafia.
But the incriminating part here is that Palmar has no direction. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he's not pushing his targets, he's content to do nothing. I could potentially understand if he (somehow) had four targets he felt were about equally scummy, but he even says he rates ShoCkeyy as definitely mafia (in contrast to the rest of his lynch pool).
Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
But I don't know what to think, because I don't like KelsierSC either. I don't like unflipped association reads but while I do think they could be mafia together, it's probably less likely. So I'm a bit confused right now.
GlowingBear and everyone else, care to respond to the actual points I've raised instead of meaningless nonsense?
Getting kinda sick of this.
Yes, I'm confused because one of my main scumreads is voting for the other one. I'm not confident enough in my reads to vote, given the circumstance. If you have any actual help or comments on my reads to help sort this out, I would really appreciate it.
Palmar can have lousy, afk day 1's on weekends, since he doesn't really play on weekends. But here there is no excuse. And he is definitely known for his day 1 reads and pushes.
However it doesn't look like a Palmar wagon would have any support, making KelsierSC the best choice at the moment. I'll go vote for him in a moment.
I'll be around for a little if anyone wants to talk.
I'm so sick of getting killed Day 1 for nonsense, garbage reasons, it happened the last two games.
Yet again, no one has responded to the actual thoughts I've been sharing, people are picking on meaningless semantics.
And there's a ridiculously scummy person (KelsierSC) who definitely deserves to be killed but no one cares. He "redeemed himself" with a single post that contained actual thinking:
On March 27 2020 20:14 KelsierSC wrote: Trfel
Not a huge amount to write about him that hasn't been said. I think agreeing with HF isn't scummy it's a lot of writing with quotes and everything. The part I don't like is how he throws on some additional fire that actually says nothing about my alignment. feels like this is added on so it doesn't look like a blatant sheep
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
I think his palmar case is ok but I don't recall Palmar being good on D1 but his point about it not being a weekend has merit and palmar's lack of direction is a fair comment. I do like his comment about palmar being an unlikely D1 lynch so vote me instead, that's a pretty town mindset.
Finally he made some non commital stuff about sentinel , scum lean but holding back.
I think trefl is good enough for a D1 pass.
I was never non-comittal about [UoN]Sentinel, I never said he was a scum lean. I never said I was holding back. I said I wanted to wait for more information and see how his play evolved, which made sense given the circumstance.
In this post KelsierSC even says that my two main pushes/scumreads, comprising the majority of my play this game, are both ok. Yet he still thinks I'm mafia. He's picking on semantics, making up reasons, and has absolutely NOT redeemed his earlier play.
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
Rels, I don't really understand what you're saying here. You're saying I'm mafia because my case on Palmar is too simple? Like the reasoning is too obvious?
Why can't a simple reason make someone mafia? I've found it's so easy to overthink things while simple reads are often overlooked and tend to be right.
On March 28 2020 02:31 Rels wrote: Trfel I read everything you wrote and I've responded to you:
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
Rels, I don't really understand what you're saying here. You're saying I'm mafia because my case on Palmar is too simple? Like the reasoning is too obvious?
Why can't a simple reason make someone mafia? I've found it's so easy to overthink things while simple reads are often overlooked and tend to be right.
it's not that it's only simple, it's that it's simple and wrong. Palmar being carefree early in the game doesn't mean anything. But you made a big deal out of it. It doesn't match what I expect of you
I wouldn't use the word carefree, I'd just say he's not invested at all. Since when do we give players a free pass for doing absolutely nothing and not even wanting to see their scumreads lynched?
Note that Palmar even changed his play after I called him out on it! He went ahead and voted for ShoCkeyy, his top scum read, after all. And is now sitting off of the main wagons. If this isn't scummy I don't know what is.
Furthermore, there ABSOLUTELY IS truth to the Palmar Day 1 thing. And the fact that he has refused to acknowledge it practically makes him mafia. Maybe the meta isn't completely accurate, especially if no one here has heard of it, but at least the perception of this meta has definitely existed.
On May 12 2015 22:21 batsnacks wrote: ##vote Sandroba
I found probable mafia. Unfortunately I can't explain it without claiming. It's weird though because sandroba did nothing last game as mafia and now he's talking a lot.
so are you like 3p lyncher and you win if sandro dies or what
On May 12 2015 22:32 Palmar wrote: There is not nearly enough emotions in the thread about GB pardoning BM. Why aren't yall people who think BM is mafia absolutely frothing right now?
On May 12 2015 23:09 Palmar wrote: you're right that was a bit dick-ish, sorry LS
But the point stands. Sandroba not posting as mafia in one game does not mean he cannot post in another, and because of the filter limitations it's not exactly hard to post 3 pages of stuff in one game.
Same with RoL. He's lazy and shit as either alignment. But he did jump a dumb remark from me (apparently a lot of people here are literally sheldon).
Like maybe I'm just wrong and bad about sandroba, projecting my own personality on him too much but he's now done two things this game where I just think "If I was towndroba in this situation I'd have reacted completely differently". Aside from my initial point about how him saying he'd keep an eye on marv was basically a pointless sentence that doesn't fit in (If he doesn't say that, can we then assume he's not keeping an eye on marv? Isn't the default position in all mafia games to always keep an eye on everyone?), there is more too.
1). Sandroba's reaction to me calling him scum.
On May 11 2015 23:30 sandroba wrote:
On May 11 2015 23:24 Palmar wrote: Every time I say something really dumb the thread dies.
fixed it for you.
I wouldn't mind killing jat either.
Dismissal. He doesn't defend against my point and he doesn't try to use it to pry into my own alignment. He just outright dismisses my stuff, only to come back later and say:
On May 12 2015 19:55 sandroba wrote:
On May 12 2015 19:49 Palmar wrote:
On May 12 2015 19:49 sandroba wrote:
On May 12 2015 19:47 Palmar wrote: I don't really think BM is mafia but I haven't read too much up on the game.
Any time frame we should expect the reading to start? I enjoy playing games with you, but not when I can't actually discuss important points with you and get your input.
You're mafia so why do you care?
If you believe so, I want you to tell me why that is. I can't tell if you are trolling/tunneling aimlessly or you actually believe what you are saying.
Which implies he doesn't know why I think he's mafia, when I had already explained it then.
Also
2). His reaction to the BM pardon.
Sandroba literally just made this case on BM:
On May 12 2015 19:34 sandroba wrote: I think we do need to lynch BM today. The bullshit level in his posts is a lot higher than anything I've seen from him. It is still possible that he is town and using a large quantity of drugs but that I cannot account for, and unless someone can confirm him town so he can be safely ignored we will need to deal with him at some point and I would prefer if it was today. One example of the BS he is pushing that I think points to him clearly lying on purpose and not being on drugs is this post:
On May 12 2015 16:22 Bill Murray wrote:
On May 11 2015 10:06 Trfel wrote: Hello.
I'll get to this game in a few hours at the latest. I am sorry for my absence today, I'll be better during the week than on weekends.
The purpose of this post is to ensure that I comply with the "one post every 24 hours" rule. Meanwhile, enjoy some music.
So Trfel makes excuses "ill be absent" "this post it so ensure that i comply with the one post every 24 hours rule" then he posts a video... cool. really beneficial before this all he had done was harass people
Then I nuke him for behaving like this, which didnt fit how he played last game as town
WITHIN AN HOUR of him "fulfilling his daily post on mothers day", he posts:
On May 11 2015 14:05 Trfel wrote: You're kidding me.
You nuked me for low activity on a weekend, and Mothers' Day?
I really hope you are not town here, because you being town would really kill my motivation to play this game. I mean, if you're going to give the majority of your posts for the first 24 hours away, you really shouldn't be killing me for not playing in a 24 hour period.
And not only that, but he wants to misrepresent what happened He instead attacks me NOT for me nuking him, but wants to lie and come up with some bullshit excuse to basically omgus me
1) he tries to nuke me in return that doesnt work 2) he votes me 3) he then proceeded to ask me if i have any more nukes after unvoting 4) he finds out i have no more nukes 5) he votes me again
this guy isnt enjoyable to play with, and his behavior is self serving and scummy as fuck
He is clearly nit picking and ignoring parts of trfel post. trfel states that he is going to be back in a few hours to this game but BM does not bold that part and bolds parts that change the meaning of the post. Also he flat out lies about the time elapsed between the 2 posts, which was 4 hours, not one, in accordance to the part BM chose to overlook in his first post. Conclusion is I think he is doing it on purpose and is mafia for it. ##vote: BM
And his primary scumread gets pardoned.
This is fucking sandroba people. Not some random scrub who doesn't know jack shit about the game. Again, I may be projecting my own personality but I'd be so mad at this.
Think how I would've reacted if anyone would've pardoned GB in mini mafia mini thing or someone had pardoned WoS in noir 3. I was mad enough with people just not listening to me. But someone actively shutting me down? Fuck that.
I don't think sandroba cares, I think he didn't defend my case and instead chose to dismiss it and I think my initial point was very good.
On May 13 2015 02:12 Palmar wrote: I'm off guys for a while and I think I'm also out of posts.
I'm okay with my vote where it is. I don't think sandroba would dismiss my stuff as trolling if he was town. I'm waffling a bit because people keep telling me he's not mafia and marv seems to actually be willing to sort of go out on a limb to defend him which I'm not sure marv would do as a scumbuddy. But the points against him stand.
oh yeah in addition to sandro i'm still fine with JAT lynch but I'm too laz to write a case and I think Palmar's star power plus sandro acting weird should be on its own enough to get sandro lynched. i'll check back in a few hours, say my name in your post and i'll read it if your got questions for me
On May 13 2015 05:47 Blazinghand wrote: Eh, I get it, Vivax is being uncaring or whatever, and he actually is a really amazing player as town. I can't really give a good argument in his defense, but I still think the right move here is to follow Palmar, who has god tier D1 reads
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Yeah, I used to be more like that, over the past few years things have changed. That's actually why rsoultin voted to kill me the past few games and I flipped town in both of them.
Furthermore, desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been scumread SO MUCH for uncertainty and waffling that I'm trying to adjust my play to include more certainty and stronger pushes.
But as to my post above, if it needs explanation:
In Assassination Mafia, Blazinghand (town) dropped his reads and sheeped Palmar on Day 1 due to his belief in Palmar's amazing Day 1 reads.
So there you go, there's the Palmar Day 1 meta I was talking about.
On March 28 2020 02:53 LightningStrike wrote: btw Trfel Palmar was scum in that game you just got that quote from just FYI.
Doesn't matter Palmar's alignment in that game, what matters is Blazinghand's alignment (town). It's the Blazinghand posts we're looking at. Proves the Palmar Day 1 meta thing.
On March 28 2020 02:27 Trfel wrote: I'm so sick of getting killed Day 1 for nonsense, garbage reasons, it happened the last two games.
Yet again, no one has responded to the actual thoughts I've been sharing, people are picking on meaningless semantics.
And there's a ridiculously scummy person (KelsierSC) who definitely deserves to be killed but no one cares. He "redeemed himself" with a single post that contained actual thinking:
On March 27 2020 20:14 KelsierSC wrote: Trfel
Not a huge amount to write about him that hasn't been said. I think agreeing with HF isn't scummy it's a lot of writing with quotes and everything. The part I don't like is how he throws on some additional fire that actually says nothing about my alignment. feels like this is added on so it doesn't look like a blatant sheep
These don't line up. I get that agreeing with someone's reads and reading them as town are different things, but in this case KelsierSC didn't like LightningStrike's logic or read results and never mentioned a positive thing. Just read the posts yourself, I still don't understand AT ALL how KelsierSC decided to townread LightningStrike there. There was nothing about the conversation that "felt ok."
I think his palmar case is ok but I don't recall Palmar being good on D1 but his point about it not being a weekend has merit and palmar's lack of direction is a fair comment. I do like his comment about palmar being an unlikely D1 lynch so vote me instead, that's a pretty town mindset.
Finally he made some non commital stuff about sentinel , scum lean but holding back.
I think trefl is good enough for a D1 pass.
I was never non-comittal about [UoN]Sentinel, I never said he was a scum lean. I never said I was holding back. I said I wanted to wait for more information and see how his play evolved, which made sense given the circumstance.
In this post KelsierSC even says that my two main pushes/scumreads, comprising the majority of my play this game, are both ok. Yet he still thinks I'm mafia. He's picking on semantics, making up reasons, and has absolutely NOT redeemed his earlier play.
On March 28 2020 02:31 Rels wrote: Trfel I read everything you wrote and I've responded to you:
On March 27 2020 12:43 Rels wrote: Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote: Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
Rels, I don't really understand what you're saying here. You're saying I'm mafia because my case on Palmar is too simple? Like the reasoning is too obvious?
Why can't a simple reason make someone mafia? I've found it's so easy to overthink things while simple reads are often overlooked and tend to be right.
it's not that it's only simple, it's that it's simple and wrong. Palmar being carefree early in the game doesn't mean anything. But you made a big deal out of it. It doesn't match what I expect of you
I wouldn't use the word carefree, I'd just say he's not invested at all. Since when do we give players a free pass for doing absolutely nothing and not even wanting to see their scumreads lynched?
Note that Palmar even changed his play after I called him out on it! He went ahead and voted for ShoCkeyy, his top scum read, after all. And is now sitting off of the main wagons. If this isn't scummy I don't know what is.
so that's it? You solved the game D1 already?
There's always a chance I could be wrong, but you know it's not scummy for people to be sure of scumreads that end up being wrong. Everyone does it. We also both know if I say "Palmar could be scum but also I could be wrong, same with the alternative wagon, KelsierSC" I'm just going to die because my pushes and reads have no force.
I will ALWAYS play to save myself because I KNOW I am town. Like I said, desperate times call for desperate measures.
On March 28 2020 02:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: Oh boy if KSC is town this game is going to get really interesting. I'll also feel bad cause I tried to save him.
If he's mafia, then well, I think it'll just prove HF is town, while Palmar definitely becomes scummier...
Why is Palmar's alignment related to KelsierSC's in this way? If KelsierSC was mafia, Palmar voted for him very early, and then switched to an off wagon...
I just don't understand this.
On March 28 2020 03:03 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: :pop:
And this, I hate whenever people show up right AFTER the deadline instead of helping before.
And @Holyflare, what vindicating qualities does Palmar have now?
Gonna take some time to rethink, I'll probably be around sporadically for the rest of the day.
On March 28 2020 02:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: Oh boy if KSC is town this game is going to get really interesting. I'll also feel bad cause I tried to save him.
If he's mafia, then well, I think it'll just prove HF is town, while Palmar definitely becomes scummier...
Why is Palmar's alignment related to KelsierSC's in this way? If KelsierSC was mafia, Palmar voted for him very early, and then switched to an off wagon...
I just don't understand this.
On March 28 2020 03:03 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: :pop:
And this, I hate whenever people show up right AFTER the deadline instead of helping before.
And @Holyflare, what vindicating qualities does Palmar have now?
Gonna take some time to rethink, I'll probably be around sporadically for the rest of the day.
Because it's the easiest play a scum player can make.... Vote for the first case to seem active, then vote for who you can try and frame as the scummiest player. It's literal mafia logic.
If I'm understanding you correctly, wouldn't this then also apply if KelsierSC was town (like he is)? Why does KelsierSC have to be mafia for this suspicion of Palmar to be true?
On March 28 2020 02:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: Oh boy if KSC is town this game is going to get really interesting. I'll also feel bad cause I tried to save him.
If he's mafia, then well, I think it'll just prove HF is town, while Palmar definitely becomes scummier...
Why is Palmar's alignment related to KelsierSC's in this way? If KelsierSC was mafia, Palmar voted for him very early, and then switched to an off wagon...
I just don't understand this.
On March 28 2020 03:03 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: :pop:
And this, I hate whenever people show up right AFTER the deadline instead of helping before.
And @Holyflare, what vindicating qualities does Palmar have now?
Gonna take some time to rethink, I'll probably be around sporadically for the rest of the day.
Because it's the easiest play a scum player can make.... Vote for the first case to seem active, then vote for who you can try and frame as the scummiest player. It's literal mafia logic.
If I'm understanding you correctly, wouldn't this then also apply if KelsierSC was town (like he is)? Why does KelsierSC have to be mafia for this suspicion of Palmar to be true?
I never claimed KSC was mafia? I never thought he was.
Okay, sorry, let me try and explain this again.
On March 28 2020 02:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: Oh boy if KSC is town this game is going to get really interesting. I'll also feel bad cause I tried to save him.
If he's mafia, then well, I think it'll just prove HF is town, while Palmar definitely becomes scummier...
This post has the following logic:
IF KelsierSC is TOWN -> no conclusion IF KelsierSC is MAFIA -> Holyflare is town, Palmar is scummier
On March 28 2020 02:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: Oh boy if KSC is town this game is going to get really interesting. I'll also feel bad cause I tried to save him.
If he's mafia, then well, I think it'll just prove HF is town, while Palmar definitely becomes scummier...
Why is Palmar's alignment related to KelsierSC's in this way? If KelsierSC was mafia, Palmar voted for him very early, and then switched to an off wagon...
I just don't understand this.
On March 28 2020 03:03 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: :pop:
And this, I hate whenever people show up right AFTER the deadline instead of helping before.
And @Holyflare, what vindicating qualities does Palmar have now?
Gonna take some time to rethink, I'll probably be around sporadically for the rest of the day.
Because it's the easiest play a scum player can make.... Vote for the first case to seem active, then vote for who you can try and frame as the scummiest player. It's literal mafia logic.
Which I can buy. However the logic here doesn't depend on anyone else's alignment at all.
Does anyone else see this? Unless I'm missing something or there is some explanation, ShoCkeyy shows a complete failure in logic here. Also note that he only has Palmar being scummier on the (If KelsierSC is Mafia) option, which isn't even what he thought! I don't understand how town could actually think this way.
Going for a walk now but I'll definitely take a closer look at ShoCkeyy.
On March 28 2020 02:50 Rels wrote: Trfel I'm very sorry if you're town. Because I'm going to say another thing that I find scummy about you, and I don't want you to feel bad if you're town. I know I could be bias confirming ...
The way you're talking about your scumreads is so sure, when I thought you were a very doubtful person. So that's something that makes me think you're scum too.
Yeah, I used to be more like that, over the past few years things have changed. That's actually why rsoultin voted to kill me the past few games and I flipped town in both of them.
Furthermore, desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been scumread SO MUCH for uncertainty and waffling that I'm trying to adjust my play to include more certainty and stronger pushes.
Like to those plays? I don't see it in your last game. Even in your big case that game, you're still using a language that match what I would expect from you:
Yeah yeah, I know, I'm one to talk, with my Eversince read and all. If that's really an issue for you let me know and I can explain it, I like to think we're all past that now though.
On Grackaroni:
On July 02 2019 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grack might be town.
Raynpelikoneet's initial town lean on Grackaroni. And here is his explanation:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: I had a townread on grack early on because i decided (after his last scumgame) to read him like i read yamato. Grackaroni is quite a low quantity poster. His post early on where he asks kind of a throwaway question on Trfel made me think there is some sort of thought process in his head. I gave him a slight townread for that.
And here is the post in question:
On July 02 2019 05:03 Grackaroni wrote: Eversince looks different but it's also 4 years old.
I don't really trust her yet, but it seemed like Rayn had a really confident read on her in the last game, so I'd be interested to hear his take.
To me this doesn't show thought process at all, raynpelikoneet's explanation really doesn't make sense here. Grackaroni stated two extremely obvious points, and it took minimal effort, and could easily be done by mafia. He didn't even draw any conclusions from this.
Later, raynpelikoneet posts a further townread of Grackaroni:
On July 03 2019 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: well i think grack officially goes to town pool now.
Raynpelikoneet's reasons for this:
On July 03 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: When he came back and followed up his stuff he actually DID follow it up and it even made sense.
Grackaroni's posts in question:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
However, raynpelikoneet himself even posted reasons to doubt this reasoning:
On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote: I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me.
On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote: @Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas?
can you expand on this?
He found me suspicious in the last game for not interacting with thread and disappearing.
In this game he is calling other people opportunistic for considering voting me.
but last game you did that as town in his mind right?
In addition to the fact that it's easily explained. Grackaroni didn't even draw any conclusios from this, he just called it "very strange." To be honest, I don't see a ton of thought process or follow-up from Grackaroni in these posts, which is how raynpelikoneet characterized them. And I don't think most other players did either. So where did raynpelikoneet's townread come from? It feels like too much information, in this case, truly knowing that Grackaroni is town and letting that affect his read.On Conversion: Raynpelikoneet's first post implying a townread of Conversion:
On July 02 2019 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hi conversion, seems like we share a lot of things and feelings. Are you me?
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?
Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on
I think Eversince is town, discuss?
Why do you think I'm town?
Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread
I don’t like this post. ick
Care to say why?
too feel good-y for my condensed ball of rage and hatred
also 4 year old meta seems like a reach to have a swing towards a read in any direction that early instead of something to pocket and observe for late
This is at least somewhat understandable, though really Conversion only shared one thought. Later, raynpelikoneet posts this:
On July 02 2019 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah conversion easily town this game.
You can look here for the specific posts, it's a little long; but for a brief summary, Conversion's posts in question are pushing onto Eversince. Seems to be a townread simply for also scumreading Eversince. You can look at this exchange yourself, it starts on page 11, I just really feel (again) like this is a weak townread that doesn't have justification to back it up.
Raynpelikoneet didn't care about the Day 1 lynch, between his townread and his scumread + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
Honestly I think this is probably the strongest point I have. From raynpelikoneet's perspective, the lynch in the last eight minutes was his townread (Conversion) against his strong scumread (Eversince). Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote: I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie. Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote: Pandain switch to conversion with me
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote: If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved Grack vote conv
So raynpelikoneet was present, and if he was at all reading, knew that shenanigans were coming and that Conversion being lynched was at least a possiblity. During these last eight minutes, here are raynpelikoneet's posts:
On July 04 2019 04:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I get that i am probably overreacting, i just hate when someone is for example called out for lying and they say "but i just did it because the sky is red" and people go woaaah must be town, nothing wrong with that, look they gave an EXPLANATION, when i n fact the whole explanation doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote: And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.)
@Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?
Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.
She also clarified that she meant I'm good at mafia rather than the mafia alignment.
I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't.
That was everyone's interpetation of the comment except you. You're the only one reading it otherwise. Also, it's clear that he meant the game and not the alignment because she specifically says "if he's town he'll figure it out" right after. It wouldn't be very sensical if she was referring to the mafia alignment and then said hes a good town player.
that's not my point. my point is noone says "good at the game" unless the player in consideration is also good as mafia, because people who are only good as town are not good mafia players.
Even I think this point is a stretch my dude. I've seen plenty of people say that.
I could possibly believe her if she didnt try to prove her oiint with something that doesnt exist. Thats why i think she is making shit up on the fly.
He's continuing to argue and explain himself. He's only minimally pushing Eversince here, he's not saying anything about Conversion, he's not getting upset, he seems very calm and relaxed. In fact, it doesn't feel like raynpelikoneet is invested or cares about the lynch at all.
I know I made a similar point against Holyflare in my case on him, but that was a bad case. There the point was bad, because in that game Holyflare made several posts to Eversince, calling her mafia, in the same time window. The argument against Holyflare was that the posts were addressed to Eversince instead of the thread, which is weak. And even still Holyflare made a post to the threaad in response to the shenanigans:
On July 04 2019 22:42 Holyflare wrote: Rayn what exactly are your reads actually?
ES + Grackaroni mafia pretty much.
On July 05 2019 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Aside from ES you should kill Grack. He made the post on me being mafia, i can understand you not agreeing with me here or even thinking it's a good post. Just read it again. It doesn't make sense i am sorry i can't explain it further. Then there is the post on Conversion i challenged at eod, the reasons he says conv is mafia for happened when he read conv town, middle point of the post is fluff that doesnt make anyone anything and the the rest is "rayn and conversion are mfia because other people i have better feelings on". Me + Conversion were his top town reads!!!!!! Who did what? He never goes into anything like who actually did something and what makes them town. He just throws out a narrative and sticks shit with it, conversion up to lynch and me to throw distrust on.
Sorry if not clear, but that's what i think.
On July 05 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kill ES, kill Grack, profit.
On July 05 2019 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Lynch ES, lynch Grack. If either of them are town then idk, maybe Pandain? I have a hard time seeing anyone else as mafia. Maybe maybe maybe Eywa but that reasoning i have at the back of my head is fucked up and you will have to figure out yourself. Eywa is not mafia though.
And here is raynpelikoneet's reaction to End of Night 1, seeing Holyflare and Grackaroni flip town:
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you
On July 05 2019 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: vigi what`?
On July 05 2019 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why no shot on ES? Why in the hell?
It doesn't make sense for raynpelikoneet to be mad here. He was highly suspecting Grackaroni, he was going to lynch Grackaroni after Eversince anyway. One of his scumreads still died, objectively it wasn't a bad shot. Raynpelikoneet has no reason to be mad about this, as he can still go and lynch Eversince (his other scumread) and then find out who the last mafia (assuming Eversince is mafia) is, the vigilante shot didn't really change much of anything.
Except raynpelikoneet is mad about it anyway. This doesn't make sense from what his perspective should be.
Conclusion: I think there is a decent chance raynpelikoneet is mafia. I still want to filter everyone else before I decide, but I think these are some solid reasons to be suspicious of raynpelikoneet.
I'm not sure what you are meaning by quoting the previous game here. Can you show more clearly what you are trying to point out?
As for meta... Which games of mine are you reading? I don't believe the Mafia Database has been updated for quite some time. I recommend reading games more recent than three years ago or so... From End of the World Party Mafia, where I was the Town Doctor and got lynched Day 1, rsoultin's posts (ok it was gonna be posts but I deleted one of them and I'm too lazy to find it again, it's nested in there anyway):
On March 05 2019 04:48 Trfel wrote: Voting Palmar for mayor because of all of the mayors' targets I want to see [UoN]Sentinel lynched most. Him having a townread on himself while claiming to have not read his role PM is super suspicious, moreso the more I think about it. Other than his huge list post he hasn't shown much thought at all, he's been just following the thread sentiment. His overall play makes his effort seem fabricated. A few reasons being quoting my reasoning in one area while highly scumreading me in another, and more importantly not seeming at all invested in his reads. If he put all that effort into reading and making his scumreads, he wouldn't not actually push those reads and follow the thread sentiment like a headless chicken. It feels forced, and like he's trying to use the effort to prove he's town.
##Mayor Palmar
:/ you feel off this game to me. there was a glimmer of truffledom and now it's gone again. you're not doing the truffle waffle
It's not my choice of targets? I can choose between [UoN]Sentinel and Palmar, I'm confident I much prefer [UoN]Sentinel, no need to waffle. If I was the mayor myself I'd probably go with Fecalfeast or maybe sicklucker. You're townreading Fecalfeast off of tone, right?
yeah it's mostly just him doing whatever the fuck and pointing out some things i agreed with at the time + damdy is usually pretty good at reading him and thinks he's town (though i think his read on him gets better later?)
ftr the truffle waffle is not usually dependent on other wagons unless my memory has really gone to shit
Where rsoultin scumread me for not waffling as I used to.
In fact, while I'm there, here's a link to my filter from that game if you haven't already read it.
On March 30 2020 01:27 Rels wrote: Palmar come and be obvious town so that I can focus on those two please please please
I'm already very obvious town.
Again, not my fault you can't read people.
Ok Palmar, I'll humor you, why are you obvious town? Because I really don't see it. You've spend most of the game afk and doing nothing and you don't feel invested or present in the slightest.
Still at work, I'll re-evaluate all my reads in a few hours and try to get reads on all the other players by end of niht.
@[UoN]Sentinel, any updates on when you'll provide those reads as promised?
I don't care much for [UoN]Sentinel but there's really nothing in his filter. It's just a giant blob of nothing... I could mayyyyybe understand his lack of thread presence as laziness while his target was being lynched* but there is absolutely no excuse for what he has done Day 2 (or lack thereof).
But I'm hesitant. Maybe it's stupid of me, but I'm hesitant because I can't really say why he is mafia (his activity is awful but that just makes him a lurker policy lynch). But literally everyone is scumreading him. That always makes me really nervous. I feel like mafia wouldn't let a member go down without a fight. And without solid reasons against him, I don't really like lynching him right now. I think what he does towards the End of Day 2 will be very informative for his alignment.
* Key difference here on why Palmar is so suspicious. Palmar's target wasn't being lynched, and he didn't care and did very little. In [UoN]Sentinel's case, his target was being lynched, so there was nothing to do.
On March 30 2020 05:02 ShoCkeyy wrote: If anything it’s most likely Palmar and Trfel. Dude has had a hardon for me since the beginning of the game, before I even really posted. Also LS the game started during the week. He had to have some time to play instead of his little one liners and insta calling me mafia.
ShoCkeyy, you really think I would be mafia with Palmar? As one of the only people actually suspecting Palmar this entire game?
On March 30 2020 06:16 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel who's mafia and why?
I don't know, I'm catching up on a lot and doing some filter dives. Care to help me?
No
Tell me what you think once you finish diving, please
Well if you don't want to help me find mafia, that does seem to sound like you are mafia yourself...
I need to take an exam, I'll look more after. Voting Palmar for now, I still need to look at GlowingBear's filter though. Then that would be the people I'm most interested in today.
On March 30 2020 06:16 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel who's mafia and why?
I don't know, I'm catching up on a lot and doing some filter dives. Care to help me?
No
Tell me what you think once you finish diving, please
Well if you don't want to help me find mafia, that does seem to sound like you are mafia yourself...
I need to take an exam, I'll look more after. Voting Palmar for now, I still need to look at GlowingBear's filter though. Then that would be the people I'm most interested in today.
This makes me want to vote you very, very hard.
I want to know your original opinions, who's probably Mafia and why. Why should I and how could I help you with that?
I want to find mafia, I really don't care who helps me as the goal is accomplished. If you're town, you should want to help because you should also want to find mafia.
On March 26 2020 03:09 LightningStrike wrote: Anyone want to help me find mafia?
Hi LS
Yes. Are you Mafia?
So why won't you help me "find mafia"? You know that doesn't mean I'm necessarily town in your eyes, or you wouldn't have said that to LightningStrike at the start of the game. I just don't get the inconsistency, are you trying to aggravate me?
Never mind, I don't care anymore. I just like having someone to bounce ideas off of and not feel like my thoughts are going out into nothingness.
I see your one-liner on Palmar now, my apologies, I missed it. Can you please explain again why Palmar's list post makes him town? I get that you like that he takes hard stances, but his stances are unexplained and make no sense. You said he's being objective, I'm challenging you to prove it.
Rels, care to respond to my post earlier this page to you?
GlowingBear, that's not why I am suspicious of Palmar. In short, Palmar doesn't care what happens, who gets lynched, or who is mafia, and I believe that makes him likely mafia. I'll see if I can explain it better later tonight when I am on a computer.
On March 30 2020 11:33 Trfel wrote: Rels, care to respond to my post earlier this page to you?
GlowingBear, that's not why I am suspicious of Palmar. In short, Palmar doesn't care what happens, who gets lynched, or who is mafia, and I believe that makes him likely mafia. I'll see if I can explain it better later tonight when I am on a computer.
I'm not sure he doesn't care, he is voting his scum read accordingly. If we lynch everyone who apparently isn't caring in this game, we would have to lynch half of the player list
I think I get what you're saying, but the key difference is his scum read isn't getting lynched.
And looking at Palmar's filter again I noticed something more.
On March 27 2020 22:07 Palmar wrote: I think we should lynch shockeyy over sentinel KSC?
How do you feel about this?
I liked what I read from shockeyy , so not for it.
Why would you want to?
He got mad when I called him mafia and felt it was random, yet until that point in the game he had done nothing except vote for Blazinhand? Feels oversensitive.
His first two posts in the game were both excuses even when bunch of people weren't even in the thread. He was telling us how he was totally not just afk, just doing something else.
He made some weird association between me and holyflare.
He has done very, very minimal amount of work for town.
On March 28 2020 02:16 Palmar wrote: It's a bad idea to lynch HF at the moment.
He is never going to be a lurky shit scum. He's going to be loud and controversial through the game. If by day 2-3 he hasn't done anything useful or been right on anything we just kill him.
We need to take out the background trash on day 1, that is how you play day 1.
Shockeyy has done literally nothing except making some excuses and throwing some random shit around. Hell even the fact that he's a late voter is a tiny mafia tell.
Murder him.
On March 29 2020 20:54 Palmar wrote: I’ll kill shockeyy as well
On March 29 2020 20:51 Palmar wrote: Seems like a good day to kill sentinel
(note: excluding list posts and scum pools where both were listed equally)
I recommend looking at Palmar's filter yourself to see it in chronological order.
But basically, there's a big jump in focus from ShoCkeyy to [UoN]Sentinel with no reason. What changed to make him less suspicious of ShoCkeyy? Seemingly nothing. What changed to make him more suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel? All Palmar says is that his filter is terrible, and since he hasn't posted that hasn't really changed at all between Day 1 and Day 2.
Palmar seems like a better and better lynch the more I look at it.
On March 27 2020 11:01 Trfel wrote: GlowingBear and everyone else, care to respond to the actual points I've raised instead of meaningless nonsense?
Getting kinda sick of this.
Yes, I'm confused because one of my main scumreads is voting for the other one. I'm not confident enough in my reads to vote, given the circumstance. If you have any actual help or comments on my reads to help sort this out, I would really appreciate it.
Otherwise, BUGGER OFF.
Regarding your case on Palmar (had to check meta this morning): He had a lazyish Day 1 before as town as shown in Mafia For Busy People and Mafia Mafia Mafia (his filters if you want them: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/534114-mafia-for-busy-people?user=Palmarhttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/528650-mafia-mafia-mafia-mafia?user=Palmar ) Now regarding no direction: He had 4 scum reads with a stronger one on Shockeyy by that point when you posted your case. As for your play: Even if one of your scumreads voted one of your other scumreads why not vote for the one who you think is scummier? That is why I think you're mafia. With that being said Palmar does move up for me as closer to town now with that meta research I done this morning.
@LightningStrike, if we're going to argue meta and all that...
In Mafia for Busy People, Palmar was lynched Day 1, on a weekend. It's well known Palmar doesn't play on weekends. While Palmar didn't do anything in the linked game, he didn't start this game on a weekend, so there is no excuse.
In Mafia Mafia Mafia, again this is quite a different case, as Palmar was apparently in Portugal and didn't realize the game started until there were about 8 hours left in Day 1. Obviously not relevant to this situation. But I'll humor you. Read Palmar's filter from that game, and he gets right to the point in trying to figure out who he wants to vote for. He acknowledges the current cases and chooses his vote. Of course he has no thread presence (since he didn't read any of the game) so he had to play with that, but I still see more investment from Palmar in that game than in the current game.
On March 31 2020 02:48 Trfel wrote: So little activity going into the deadline, makes me so uneasy...
Activity is fine considering the active players?
I just feel like if [UoN]Sentinel is mafia there should be more going on right now, no? Either more of a counterpush or more of a push on him as a bus.
On April 01 2020 03:15 Rels wrote: Trfel what do you think of Chez and rayn chats?
If they are fake, I think it would be under raynpelikoneet's direction; it sounds too much like raynpelikoneet. I think it's a decent town indicator for Chezinu but I've also seen mafia go to far greater lengths for deceptions.
I'm not going to quote the stupid association posts because that would take forever. Instead I'll link to them: GlowingBear's post Rels's post
@GlowingBear, what do you mean by deflecting suspicion of [UoN]Sentinel? Do you mean not knowing his alignment? If so, yes I read [UoN]Sentinel as null/lurking for most of the game, I have a hard time reading into his posts (before the end of day 2) more than that. Holyflare even admitted to reading [UoN]Sentinel as null for his early posts (which, let's be honest, were most of his posts), so I wasn't alone in that.
You just quoted every time I mentioned [UoN]Sentinel, even if I was using his posts to make a point on someone else. You didn't actually read the posts in question. Even the "main point," I clearly explained it by saying that I wanted to see how [UoN]Sentinel's play developed while there were valid reasons to be suspicious of KelsierSC at the time. In retrospect a wrong read, but at the time it was very reasonable.
As for towards the end of Day 2, if I were really mafia and wanted to keep [UoN]Sentinel alive, why would I vote for Palmar? I would have instead coordinated with [UoN]Sentinel and stacked votes on GlowingBear and pushed GlowingBear, that would have been the better play by far. Getting Palmar lynched was a much harder play with a low likelihood of success.
Furthermore, and most importantly to these last points, if I were mafia, I would know [UoN]Sentinel wasn't going to try and save himself, so I would have voted for him and pushed him much sooner to get towncredit. There is absolutely no mafia motivation for what I did, because it would be the absolute stupidest thing for mafia to do there. [UoN]Sentinel didn't try to keep himself alive, I didn't try to keep him alive, there is literally no reason not to get town credit for the lynch there.I can't really speak much to [UoN]Sentinel's posts. Obviously the implication is false, but in particular the last few posts are worthless to look at. [UoN]Sentinel didn't try to save himself, so his posts at that time are WIFOM because it's obvious he's going to die. Of course he would try to set up the last mafia for an easy mislynch or two. You can't look at those posts as anything more than WIFOM.
As for finding who is actually mafia... that's harder. I still find Palmar quite suspicious but I haven't been able to re-evaluate since [UoN]Sentinel flipped. I haven't looked much at LightningStrike, Rels, or Chezinu this game, they feel kinda like town but I don't really know why. I need to re-evaluate them as well. Still have so much trouble reading LightningStrike and Chezinu.
GlowingBear is a tougher case. His posts and pushes have been all over the place. Generally the player with the most posts is town, and that would be GlowingBear here I believe. But two strong town players thought GlowingBear was mafia (Vivax and Holyflare), it's at least worth consideration. His play feels really erratic this game and that confuses me so I need to read him again for sure.
I really thought the cop would help us solve the game
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
I did promise a case lol, that's actually a good town meta tell for me I would have done it 100% as scum. I would have gotten a Trfel lynch easy as scum in this game lol
Oh joy, the wonders of self meta ^^ What is this game devolving into...
On April 01 2020 10:33 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, this next question could make me take my vote off of you and switch to Rels. Please answer it very careful and in it's entirety.
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
I did promise a case lol, that's actually a good town meta tell for me I would have done it 100% as scum. I would have gotten a Trfel lynch easy as scum in this game lol
Oh joy, the wonders of self meta ^^ What is this game devolving into...
Time to sheep the Chezinu?
Better watch out. Last time town followed the Chez. They got two mafias lynched back to back and one mafia killed by vigi. That was over ten years ago...
Since then, the house of brown developed into a fine investigation office known throughout the world
Ok, I need to actually read this game and play. After reading the game from a decade ago (+ Show Spoiler +
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/105463-mini-mafia-2
), I laughed so much at my trolls. If only I can troll as before.
Do you know why the Chez doesn't build cases? Chez lynches suspects based on hunches. He doesn't know why he suspects who he suspects. It is not found in his conscious mind.
So, the bear that glows. If you could troll for another day, what would you troll?
I'm killing Trfel and if he flips town I'll kill Rels
It's one of them 100%
Now, if I could troll for another day, I would troll a check
How are you so sure it's not Palmar? Or LightningStrike, for that matter?
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
I did promise a case lol, that's actually a good town meta tell for me I would have done it 100% as scum. I would have gotten a Trfel lynch easy as scum in this game lol
Oh joy, the wonders of self meta ^^ What is this game devolving into...
Time to sheep the Chezinu?
Better watch out. Last time town followed the Chez. They got two mafias lynched back to back and one mafia killed by vigi. That was over ten years ago...
Since then, the house of brown developed into a fine investigation office known throughout the world
Ok, I need to actually read this game and play. After reading the game from a decade ago (+ Show Spoiler +
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/105463-mini-mafia-2
), I laughed so much at my trolls. If only I can troll as before.
Do you know why the Chez doesn't build cases? Chez lynches suspects based on hunches. He doesn't know why he suspects who he suspects. It is not found in his conscious mind.
So, the bear that glows. If you could troll for another day, what would you troll?
I'm killing Trfel and if he flips town I'll kill Rels
It's one of them 100%
Now, if I could troll for another day, I would troll a check
How are you so sure it's not Palmar? Or LightningStrike, for that matter?
Check my post before deadline. I say why I think they're town and their play has been consistent since I first townread them.
Ah, sorry. Missed that post in the flurry of deadline stuff.
Weren't you one of the people saying that being interested/invested in the game isn't a good metric for people's alignments? What makes the difference in using that metric on LightningStrike as opposed to someone else like Palmar?
I'll have to take a look at Palmar's read on [UoN]Sentinel, that's something I have yet to review.
On April 01 2020 06:13 Chezinu wrote: Look and behold, I saw a bright beam of light. I gazed at it's frequency and felt the vibrations that hummed:
Rels wanted to lynch Trfel over Sentinel, waited for Palmar, Palmar said nothing new to what he said before. Rels promised to write a case on Trfel. He didn't follow up, and after Sentinel flip the only case he provided is reasoned on because Sentinel was mafia. ggnore
I did promise a case lol, that's actually a good town meta tell for me I would have done it 100% as scum. I would have gotten a Trfel lynch easy as scum in this game lol
Oh joy, the wonders of self meta ^^ What is this game devolving into...
Time to sheep the Chezinu?
Better watch out. Last time town followed the Chez. They got two mafias lynched back to back and one mafia killed by vigi. That was over ten years ago...
Since then, the house of brown developed into a fine investigation office known throughout the world
Ok, I need to actually read this game and play. After reading the game from a decade ago (+ Show Spoiler +
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/105463-mini-mafia-2
), I laughed so much at my trolls. If only I can troll as before.
Do you know why the Chez doesn't build cases? Chez lynches suspects based on hunches. He doesn't know why he suspects who he suspects. It is not found in his conscious mind.
So, the bear that glows. If you could troll for another day, what would you troll?
I'm killing Trfel and if he flips town I'll kill Rels
It's one of them 100%
Now, if I could troll for another day, I would troll a check
How are you so sure it's not Palmar? Or LightningStrike, for that matter?
Why do you cast doubt?
Dearest Chezinu, I still have yet to determine the color of most of the remaining players in the game. As such, I'm confused and curious when others discern the colors with such ease.
GlowingBear is set to die with 2 votesOn the surface it actually looks good for Rels to switch to [UoN]Sentinel here. It's a 2-2-2 wagon, he switches at about the same time as LightningStrike, and these two switches together nearly seal [UoN]Sentinel as the lynch.
I need to go cook dinner now so this will be short, I'll look at this more later. But quick thoughts:
ShoCkeyy was the only other person suspicious of Palmar. With a maximum of three votes on Palmar, and Palmar returning to play the game (at least, it maybe seemed so at the time), lynching Palmar was very unlikely. This could be observed the night before the vote switch (real time), and Rels said at that time he'd rather lynch me (Trfel) or [UoN]Sentinel than Palmar, preparing for a vote switch.
Mafia could have easily decided to bus at about this same time, the night before the deadline. Knowing that a Palmar lynch was very unlikely, and a GlowingBear lynch was also very unlikely (only the two people already voting for him expressed suspicion of him at this point, plus GlowingBear would actively fight to save himself as needed with his high activity), [UoN]Sentinel's death is almost assured, even if he tried to save himself.
[UoN]Sentinel put in no effort to try and stay alive. No one else tried to keep him alive either. This almost certainly indicates that [UoN]Sentinel was bussed.
So in reality, to me it looks like about a wash. Rels' play makes sense from a mafia perspective. The question is if it fits a town perspective.@Rels: Why did you stop scumreading Palmar on Day 2? I know he made a list post, but what about that changed your read? Or was it something else? What changed in between this post and this post? You expected [UoN]Sentinel to make significant contribution to the game while asleep, or what?
On April 02 2020 09:26 Rels wrote: lol Trfel that makes me happy to see you so opportunistic makes me feel better
Opportunistic? I wouldn't call trying to figure out the alignment of the person leading the votes opportunistic. I'd call it being responsible and caring about the game.
I did indeed miss the top of the post you mentioned, my apologies. I saw the rest and assumed it was all like that.
Still though, what about those Palmar posts did you like so much? I have yet to understand this point from anyone, in particular I'd like to hear it from you.
On April 02 2020 09:24 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, question: how's your read on Palmar now?
I don't know. I've been busy, I haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet. It would be mafia, except he was suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel early on and people have pointed to that as a reason to townread Palmar.
I need to look into that myself and see how much truth and weight it holds. I'm hoping to do so later tonight.
On April 02 2020 09:32 Rels wrote: If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum.
I'm not scumreading you. But I might, if you keep attacking me with zero reason just because people are suspecting you.
Palmar's play does look kinda bad though. At least he voted for Rels early on, before it was known that GlowingBear and Chezinu would agree, but it does seem to come out of nowhere and had no explanation.
On April 02 2020 10:31 LightningStrike wrote: GB I did read it but I not exactly convinced about it per say but he reading the thread better than trfel is lol....
Care to explain? I've been present and reading this entire game. Or are you just here to take potshots for no reason?
On April 02 2020 10:31 LightningStrike wrote: GB I did read it but I not exactly convinced about it per say but he reading the thread better than trfel is lol....
Care to explain? I've been present and reading this entire game. Or are you just here to take potshots for no reason?
The fact you missed Rels post about his read on Palmar showed you weren't really reading the game in my opinion. I wasn't taking potshots I was just stating things.
You're free to think whatever you think, I just find it insulting to be accused of stuff like that. I've provided more quality analysis than most players in this game.
On April 02 2020 09:24 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, question: how's your read on Palmar now?
I don't know. I've been busy, I haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet. It would be mafia, except he was suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel early on and people have pointed to that as a reason to townread Palmar.
I need to look into that myself and see how much truth and weight it holds. I'm hoping to do so later tonight.
On April 02 2020 09:32 Rels wrote: If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum.
I'm not scumreading you. But I might, if you keep attacking me with zero reason just because people are suspecting you.
Palmar's play does look kinda bad though. At least he voted for Rels early on, before it was known that GlowingBear and Chezinu would agree, but it does seem to come out of nowhere and had no explanation.
Gotta look into that later.
Trfel I don't know, man. I read everything you post and it always comes awkward to me. I don't think you're not reading the game, and you are in fact putting a bit of effort. But the only thoughts that sounds original are the ones you've wrote about Palmar, one of your scum reads since day1. The rest, you just seem to react when it's convenient. If you're town, I'm sorry, but that's how it feels to me.
Every post you say you're confused. Every town is, especially in a game like this one. I have at least one reason to suspect each player in the game. That's part of it. But I don't see you going after someone you think it's really scummy.
The only one I'd expect you to go after is Palmar. But when chez posts something about Rels, you decide he is the best shot, when your main scumread is voting him. Also, a huge part of the case on Rels is flipped association with Sentinel. Which is the exact same reason we scum read you and you said it was stupid.
I don't really think you believe in what you're saying every time you post
On April 02 2020 09:24 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, question: how's your read on Palmar now?
I don't know. I've been busy, I haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet. It would be mafia, except he was suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel early on and people have pointed to that as a reason to townread Palmar.
I need to look into that myself and see how much truth and weight it holds. I'm hoping to do so later tonight.
On April 02 2020 09:32 Rels wrote: If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum.
I'm not scumreading you. But I might, if you keep attacking me with zero reason just because people are suspecting you.
Palmar's play does look kinda bad though. At least he voted for Rels early on, before it was known that GlowingBear and Chezinu would agree, but it does seem to come out of nowhere and had no explanation.
Gotta look into that later.
Trfel I don't know, man. I read everything you post and it always comes awkward to me. I don't think you're not reading the game, and you are in fact putting a bit of effort. But the only thoughts that sounds original are the ones you've wrote about Palmar, one of your scum reads since day1. The rest, you just seem to react when it's convenient. If you're town, I'm sorry, but that's how it feels to me.
Every post you say you're confused. Every town is, especially in a game like this one. I have at least one reason to suspect each player in the game. That's part of it. But I don't see you going after someone you think it's really scummy.
The only one I'd expect you to go after is Palmar. But when chez posts something about Rels, you decide he is the best shot, when your main scumread is voting him. Also, a huge part of the case on Rels is flipped association with Sentinel. Which is the exact same reason we scum read you and you said it was stupid.
I don't really think you believe in what you're saying every time you post
Again, I'M NOT GOING AFTER RELS!!!
Trfel, I'll take a step back and assume you're 100% town, so we can have a conversation without me thinking you're trying to trick me.
Now, let's also assume Mafia could've bussed Sentinel or not, in which case votecount isn't helpful.
Trying to make associations with filters won't help either, since both you and Rels had suspicious posts regarding Sentinel, and you can't both be Mafia.
We will have to rely solely on how people have been playing.
Who is most likely scum, solely for how they have been playing?
I don't necessarily believe that all associations are equal. I believe [UoN]Sentinel's actions at End of Day 2 to be WIFOM and impossible to get any useful information from. I didn't try to say that my own posts can't be used to show association to [UoN]Sentinel, I have simply tried to explain the intent behind my posts to clear up confusion and incorrect interpretations that were made that resulted in people thinking I looked suspicious due to my stance on [UoN]Sentinel. It's up to everyone's own view how they want to judge that, but I do think it's important that people correctly understand my thought process in my reads and posts.
In short, not all associations are equal. But I have also discussed those already, I'd be happy to discuss other things as well. I think the most suspicious thing in Rels' filter is how he switches from Palmar to [UoN]Sentinel on Day 2. Obviously this is extremely suspect given [UoN]Sentinel's alignment, but also makes no sense on its own (look at the way he does it, not just the fact that he did). To me it feels fake. He dropped his vote for (IMO) suspect reasons* and voted for his #2 suspect over his #1 suspect for no reason.
*I know he said he just voted for Palmar as a pressure vote. Palmar made a list post with little to no reasoning. Rels found it to be towny (how?) and also qualified this as Palmar playing the game (I strongly disagree, he showed barely any effort or thought).
My second reason to be suspicious of Rels is that Rels never made his own pushes or ideas, he just follows others. He just lets other people lead and jumps on the wagons and ideas that have already been shared. It feels like he's not really trying to solve the game and is just trying to look good and survive.
I'm going to go and get a snack, and then I'll look at Palmar's filter. I don't like Palmar either, of course only one of them can be mafia. I need to figure out who it is, and I'm still not sure on LightningStrike or Chezinu. I can never read LightningStrike at all, he's had some weak games as scum and he's also had some absolutely killer games as scum. And Chezinu's play is such a departure from what I expect from him that I don't really know what to think. I need to take a closer look at both. Heck, I'm not even 100% positive you (GlowingBear) are town, I haven't had the time to do a thorough read of your filter yet.
If I had to rank everyone right now, from scummiest to towniest, it would be: Palmar > Rels > LightningStrike > Chezinu > GlowingBear
But please keep in mind, I'm working right now to try and get a better idea of who is town and who is not. Expect my reads to change before I go to bed tonight.
Frick, I forgot to actually put my analysis in that spoiler Whoops on that one.
The one counterargument to Rels not bringing up his own thoughts is his early Day 1 vote onto Holyflare. However, he didn't press this for long. If you look at what Rels actually cared about and where he was actually invested, he hasn't done much that is original.
He started suspecting [UoN]Sentinel here, welll after Holyflare and others had started pushing him. Same with his suspicions on me, starting about here, well after GlowingBear and several others were suspecting me. His vote on KelsierSC came late, and well after most others suspected him due to Holyflare's case. And then Day 2, going onto [UoN]Sentinel only after it was almost certain that he would be the lynch (see previous posts for an explanation if you don't understand this). And he's done very little Day 3.
Look at the overarching theme in his filter and he's been quite the follower this game.
Palmar has shown little/no interest in the game (not caring about lynches, reads, pushing his targets) + Show Spoiler [Explanation] +
Palmar's activity has obviously been lacking in this game, but he has also shown a lack of investment in the game and lack of desire to push his targets.
Day 1, Palmar made three posts saying that he wanted to lynch ShoCkeyy or asking people to lynch ShoCkeyy. Only two of them contained any explanation. The effort was very minimal. Palmar attributes this to his inactivity at the deadline:
On March 29 2020 01:30 Palmar wrote: I haven't reevaluated anything really, but I stand by my reads.
I moved away from KSC because he didn't really sound like mafia, it was just a policy lynch.
So why didn't you try to yell at people to lynch shockeyy at EoD if you really thought shockeyy was scum?
I told people to lynch him and gave reasons.
I also wasn't here at the deadline or anywhere near it really.
This is actually just a lie. Palmar posted 44 minutes before the deadline, not too far from the deadline at all. But even if he missed the last 44 minutes to the deadline, Palmar could have done much, much more to explain and push his reads and ideas.
Day 2 and Day 3 get much worse. On Day 2, he doesn't say a single word about scum reads until it's obvious that [UoN]Sentinel will be lynched, and then he votes for him. Day 3, he decided suddenly that he wanted to kill Rels, without explanation. But hasn't returned to explain this or push his read at all.
Read Palmar's filter yourself and then tell me that he's been pushing his reads and that he is invested in the game. I bet you can't.
Palmar has provided almost no explanation of his reads, and little to no critical thinking + Show Spoiler [Explanation] +
This goes without saying. Palmar has barely been present this game, and when he has been, most of his posts are one-liners, and most of his reads are entirely unexplained. I won't bother quoting these posts, instead I will quote the very best posts from Palmar.
On March 27 2020 22:07 Palmar wrote: I think we should lynch shockeyy over sentinel KSC?
How do you feel about this?
I liked what I read from shockeyy , so not for it.
Why would you want to?
He got mad when I called him mafia and felt it was random, yet until that point in the game he had done nothing except vote for Blazinhand? Feels oversensitive.
His first two posts in the game were both excuses even when bunch of people weren't even in the thread. He was telling us how he was totally not just afk, just doing something else.
He made some weird association between me and holyflare.
He has done very, very minimal amount of work for town.
On March 30 2020 04:26 Palmar wrote: It's so fucking tiring that people double guess everything and never just play this game in a simple way.
Mafia people play like mafia
Town people play like town
HF got into a huge dick measuring contest with GB, ergo they're both town.
Vivax made good reads and was just all around chill and cool guy, ergo he's town.
KSC came around and actually tried, ergo town.
LS is town because I said so
Rels is probably dumb enough to be town
Trfel could be mafia because he's completely uninteresting.
Sentinel is almost certainly mafia, his filter is shit
Shockeyy is probably the other one, he sounds like mafia.
Nobody is going to try to read Chez, but I'm kinda fine with him not dying at the moment.
Just kill the people that look and sound like mafia.
Stop fucking overthinking everything.
And, well, that's it. His only posts this game with actual reads and explanations. And honestly, read the posts. Most of them aren't legitimate explanations, he's pushing things that make no sense.
Look at the first post, on ShoCkeyy. This post may have been an okay post if he posted it when he was first suspecting ShoCkeyy. At that point, ShoCkeyy had done almost nothing. However, since that initial suspicion and before Palmar's post, ShoCkeyy provided some posts with more effort and more thinking. Palmar didn't consider these at all in his read, here are a few examples:
On March 27 2020 03:56 GlowingBear wrote: Here's where I'm at:
LS LS is difficult to read but I have a feeling he is town, mostly because he seems interested in the game.
Palmar He seems relaxed and having fun. He is also pushing who he thinks is mafia. Passable play.
KelsierSC Had the same reaction I had on Holyflare's case. I can get behind his logic, even if he is overreacting.
Holyflare Builds a whole case focusing on Kelsier but is voting Sentinel. His case seems constructed. I don't see him actively trying to solve the whole game, attacking relevant posts. Way too focused on an easy lynch. Not really how I expect him to play as town.
Trfel Last post is veeeery very non-committal. Also, agrees with Holyflare on Sentinel but says he doesn't understand his case. Still not voting Sentinel.
Sentinel Lynching himself makes no sense as town.
I'm not sure about Rels. Although I think he is not really taking strong stances, he is reacting accordingly to what is being posted on the thread. I wouldn't lynch him day1.
Chezinu is unreadable.
Vivax is tunneled on Sentinel on weak grounds. The only reason this is not a scum lean is because Vivax tends be like this as town too. @Vivax, what do you think of the other players?
I find Shockey unreadable at this point. Last time I've played with him, he seemed mafia as hell. Turns out he was town.
On March 27 2020 06:39 ShoCkeyy wrote: No, why start two wagons and then push/vote the one that seems most likely to get a wagon going? Like personally I understand the situation Sent is in, GB you've always thought my play style is anti town, but is it? I think when a townie panics like the one Sent is in, they tend to lean anti town.
I still prefer HF being scum here than Sent. Palmar and Trfel seem to agree with everything HF has to say which is odd from both of them.
Yea I mentioned to Chen as well that I'm not even going to try to figure you out day one... every time that happens, we both go at each other for no reason and we both end up town anyways.
Do I find HF to be mafia? Sure. It does seem like it with that double play. But I don't agree on Palmar, if HF isn't mafia then Palmar is vice versa, or theyre both a team together.
Sentinel play can be construed as mafia, or a desperate townie trying to get HF off their back. We all know HF is a strong player in either position, but having played with HF before as mafia, I feel like he's playing as mafia this time around. the point of mafia team is to confuse the town. It's already starting to happen with his play.
Palmar himself had contributed far less to town than ShoCkeyy had at the time Palmar made this post. The read shows a lack of critical thinking and analysis. And remember, we are looking at the best of Palmar here.
Looking at his list post... Ignore the townreads on flipped or modkilled players. He townread GlowingBear for his fight with Holyflare, fine whatever. He townread Rels because he is dumb? All he said is one person has a bad filter, the other sounds like mafia. That is it.
Palmar is a player well capable of critical thought and accurate, strong reads. He has not demonstrated that at all in this game.
Evolution of Reads (because I believe an analysis of how someone's reads evolve is generally worth looking at) + Show Spoiler +
On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote: also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over.
(while voting for KelsierSC)
On March 26 2020 22:58 Palmar wrote: I have upgraded shockeyy to definitely mafia.
On March 27 2020 06:21 Palmar wrote: GB is100% town
Bad, but town
On March 29 2020 20:51 Palmar wrote: Seems like a good day to kill sentinel
On March 29 2020 20:54 Palmar wrote: I’ll kill shockeyy as well
On March 30 2020 18:29 Palmar wrote: Feels like sentinel has done less than shockeyy and is less invested.
Still think shockeyy is mafia for his reactions and posts on day 1, just think Sentinel is even more likely to flip scum.
Trfel is officially dead to me now btw, so I'm going to pretend he doesn't exist.
On March 30 2020 04:26 Palmar wrote: It's so fucking tiring that people double guess everything and never just play this game in a simple way.
Mafia people play like mafia
Town people play like town
HF got into a huge dick measuring contest with GB, ergo they're both town.
Vivax made good reads and was just all around chill and cool guy, ergo he's town.
KSC came around and actually tried, ergo town.
LS is town because I said so
Rels is probably dumb enough to be town
Trfel could be mafia because he's completely uninteresting.
Sentinel is almost certainly mafia, his filter is shit
Shockeyy is probably the other one, he sounds like mafia.
Nobody is going to try to read Chez, but I'm kinda fine with him not dying at the moment.
Just kill the people that look and sound like mafia.
Stop fucking overthinking everything.
(note: the above post should be one post higher but I'm too lazy to change it)
On April 01 2020 09:17 Palmar wrote: I think today is a good day to kill Rels
Ignoring the quality of the reads themselves, as we've already discussed this, there are still two inconsistencies. First, Palmar votes for KelsierSC instead of his main, "definitely mafia" scumread, ShoCkeyy, on Day 1. Note that he only corrected this after he was called out on it. Furthermore, his suspicion of Rels came absolutely out of nowhere, and is STILL completely unexplained.
For the lack of reads Palmar has posted, he still has jumps in his main reads/votes that make no sense at all.
Palmar didn't push [UoN]Sentinel at all until Day 2, when there was little that could be done to prevent his death + Show Spoiler [Explanation] +
On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote: also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
On March 26 2020 21:49 Vivax wrote: Let's keep it simple? Sent's first post was a joke about the opening post, possibly a result of him staring at it not knowing what to write. Then he became uncooperative and generally didn't look like he was having fun, but rather resorting to mimicking a zero-fucks attitude to provoke too-scummy-to-be-scum theories.
I like the wagon. We don't have to bite our teeth out to convince Kelsier.
##Vote: Sent
This is a fine vote as well.
Honestly I'd kill any of the 4 I mentioned.
Classic way mafia treat fellow mafia. "I'm suspicious of this person, I'd kill them" while voting for someone else. It gives them a super easy way to bus them if needed, while not actually voting for them or pushing them.
See here and here. Palmar is still suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel, but is protecting him by wanting to lynch ShoCkeyy first. Given that Palmar didn't even consolidate at the deadline, this guarantees that he didn't have to vote for [UoN]Sentinel at all.
Also, see my post here for why anyone (Palmar included) knew that [UoN]Sentinel was highly likely to die by the time that he voted for him on Day 2. No other wagon had any traction/momentum, and they all lacked the support to get the votes needed via simple math. Furthermore, knowing that [UoN]Sentinel wasn't going to make a significant play to save himself, this was a sensible time to for mafia to bus.
Palmar's stance and reads towards [UoN]Sentinel is not at all a reason to read him as town. In fact, it's a bit suspect.
In conclusion, I think Palmar is the most likely to be mafia. His posts on [UoN]Sentinel are not valid reason to townread him. Palmar's play this game overall has been extremely lacking: he's barely been present, he hasn't been invested, and he's produced almost no read explanations or critical thoughts. The second point is the strongest point.
I highly suggest everyone reconsider their read on Palmar.
Took a quick look at LightningStrike's filter. I never know how to read him but since he's in the game I have to try...
I don't like how LightningStrike says he was suspicious of Holyflare right after Holyflare posted his case on KelsierSC but then only said anything and voted for Holyflare after GlowingBear did. It feels like he was too scared to say anything on his own. I could see this coming from town, Holyflare can be quite intimidating, but I still find it suspect.
While I like where Palmar has placed his vote (KelsierSC), I don't like the rest of his play at all. And that's the main thing that has me concerned currently.
Palmar typically has strong Day 1 play. He's very good at finding mafia on Day 1, and I believe he has one of the best Day 1 push mafia percentages on the site. However, that isn't seen in this game at all. Palmar has been almost entirely absent, despite having no excuse and nothing else to do (yay coronavirus). And it's not even a weekend. Furthermore, in the little time Palmar has been here, his presence has been extremely lacking. He sheeped Holyflare to vote onto KelsierSC (by itself not a bad choice), however the rest of his posts lack reasoning entirely:
On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote: also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over.
On March 26 2020 22:56 Palmar wrote:
On March 26 2020 21:49 Vivax wrote: Let's keep it simple? Sent's first post was a joke about the opening post, possibly a result of him staring at it not knowing what to write. Then he became uncooperative and generally didn't look like he was having fun, but rather resorting to mimicking a zero-fucks attitude to provoke too-scummy-to-be-scum theories.
I like the wagon. We don't have to bite our teeth out to convince Kelsier.
##Vote: Sent
This is a fine vote as well.
Honestly I'd kill any of the 4 I mentioned.
On March 26 2020 22:58 Palmar wrote: I have upgraded shockeyy to definitely mafia.
But the incriminating part here is that Palmar has no direction. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he's not pushing his targets, he's content to do nothing. I could potentially understand if he (somehow) had four targets he felt were about equally scummy, but he even says he rates ShoCkeyy as definitely mafia (in contrast to the rest of his lynch pool).
Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
But I don't know what to think, because I don't like KelsierSC either. I don't like unflipped association reads but while I do think they could be mafia together, it's probably less likely. So I'm a bit confused right now.
Thoughts?
I wasn't digging Palmar's play for the same reason myself but idk if he is town or scum though because of it.
Similar thing here. Slightly suspicious of someone but not sure if they are town or mafia. It's about as noncommittal as you can be.
On March 28 2020 02:03 LightningStrike wrote: As for HF being scum: DMA said he was town earlier.
DMA?
Dick Move Analysis like he would be to much of a dick to not be town for that action.
do you think HF can't be a jerk as scum?
I doubt that he can do this post as scum:
On March 27 2020 08:46 Holyflare wrote:
On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
On March 26 2020 14:01 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote: If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.
For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read
On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote: and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV
I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game.
Mafia have three main objectives:
Blend
Sew discontent
Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems: 1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad. 2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them. 3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.
Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee.
On March 26 2020 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:13 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote: [quote]
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about?
I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case.
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache. the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny.
Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible.
Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway".
Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons.
Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these.
On March 26 2020 04:25 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:15 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:04 Vivax wrote: [quote]
This is slightly scummy because after the game started he decided to read the setup before posting.
Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least.
you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts?
lul x2
Discredits a read for no reason. Makes no conclusions.
On March 26 2020 06:59 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
last thing I remember is he is AFK as fuck as mafia, so not a bad read.
Jumps on giving a free town read to Vivax even though this is not his meta.
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote: [quote]
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads.
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote: [quote]
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia.
Funny, this case is basically about Kelsier but you're voting Sentinel. This is so bad.
On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote: First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty.
On March 26 2020 19:37 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 19:33 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote: First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty.
So you're establishing that you attack me personally and blame the death of the forum on me/my playstyle because I play the game of mafia?
You arent playing mafia you are a bully hiding behind your screen. Got no time for you
On March 26 2020 22:56 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and saw HF also casing KSC although it not the worst case in the world but I aint biting it and KSC's reaction though seems very over the top? Dunno how to feel about that. Palmar's entrance is meh. I hope someone can actually help me read HF this game....
On March 27 2020 03:25 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
And this is basically what's interesting right now.
Holyflare is mafia, he's pushing Kelsier while voting Sentinel. It doesn't make sense. I don't believe he is trying to solve the game, but he's just trying to fit people's post in a narrative to push his mafia agenda.
##Vote: Holyflare
I also found this interesting as well. I don't get the push on either or, which is why I didn't even buy into it, yet Palmar followed along anyways.
On March 27 2020 03:52 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
On March 26 2020 10:12 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:56 GlowingBear wrote: LS, I was pushing Rels just to get some traction in the thread.
HF, is Vivax town?
And what you got out of that push onto Rels?
Nothing, I was just getting traction.
On March 26 2020 10:17 Chezinu wrote:
On March 26 2020 09:49 GlowingBear wrote: zZz
Hello! Wakey wakey little teddy bear! oh how memorizing you are! Please speak to me!
Chez I'll speak! Are you mafia?
On March 26 2020 11:31 Trfel wrote:
On March 26 2020 10:58 Rels wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
why?
Vivax typically has trouble Day 1 as mafia, here he seems present and quite comfortable.
This is in the past, Trfel. Last game I've played with him he was very capable as mafia.
On March 26 2020 14:01 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote: If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.
For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read
On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote: and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV
I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game.
Mafia have three main objectives:
Blend
Sew discontent
Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems: 1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad. 2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them. 3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.
Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee.
On March 26 2020 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:13 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about?
I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case.
On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote: Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted. LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache. the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny.
Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible.
Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway".
Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons.
Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these.
On March 26 2020 04:25 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 04:15 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least.
you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts?
lul x2
Discredits a read for no reason. Makes no conclusions.
On March 26 2020 06:59 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
last thing I remember is he is AFK as fuck as mafia, so not a bad read.
Jumps on giving a free town read to Vivax even though this is not his meta.
On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least.
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads.
Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads.
On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more.
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia.
Funny, this case is basically about Kelsier but you're voting Sentinel. This is so bad.
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote: Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.
Worst post on thread yet. Are these points alignment indicative? What do you believe these guys are? Town? Mafia?
On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote: also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over.
Care to explain? At least explain why you're leaving Chez out.
---
And this is basically what's interesting right now.
Holyflare is mafia, he's pushing Kelsier while voting Sentinel. It doesn't make sense. I don't believe he is trying to solve the game, but he's just trying to fit people's post in a narrative to push his mafia agenda.
##Vote: Holyflare
So I wasn't the only one who actually thought this as well even I didn't say it in the thread but I been thinking that for sure. I will vote HF with you. ##Vote: Holyflare
On March 26 2020 12:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:04 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 11:10 Rels wrote:
On March 26 2020 10:23 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 08:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: [quote] "I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly
You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses.
You are mafia, simple as that.
is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move?
Who am I voting for?
It's probably the latter, Rels
##vote [UoN]Sentinel
These posts, afking and work commitments are why this forum is dead and others thrive.
You post a long case and people agree with it (which is fine because they actually elaborated on reasons why) but other people disagree with it and say absolutely nothing relevant to any of the points within it. There is no debate about what points are constructed or what points make someone mafia, there is no push for me because someone thinks this is a narrative (instead, there is a push for me because people can't read the voting thread). This forum is plagued by people talking AT each other saying meagre sentences like "I think he is town" or "I think he is mafia" and no actual discourse about any points anyone raises.
This was the post that alerted my DMA stuff.
He can 100% do this as Mafia. Anyone can do this as Mafia. Whining is very easy to do.
I agree. LS I think that's a bad argument
Guess that makes me bad then
This too. LightningStrike was townreading Holyflare for DMA, two people told him it was bad, and suddenly he was even potentially looking for a mass vote switch to Holyflare at the deadline:
On March 28 2020 02:26 LightningStrike wrote: Chez you need to note waste your vote and same with you Palmar...... We might have shannies on HF if we can just get up to 4 votes on HF.
I don't know what I think about this. It feels so bleh and opportunistic, but at the same time, knowing all of the options were town, I see no mafia motivation in it. Mafia!LightningStrike should be content to leave the lynch wherever it goes and not care if people waste their vote. The care at the end of Day 1, including switching votes his little mafia motivation (the only motivation I can see is that he was expecting the once-again-playing KelsierSC to redeem himself and me to continue to be suspected, he would want to keep me alive to save me as a mislynch for the future).
Same thing with suddenly suspecting Vivax Night 1. Feels like he's just going along with everyone else, even though Vivax was one of his top townreads earlier. What changed?Anyway, some questions for LightningStrike:
On March 26 2020 05:48 LightningStrike wrote: Ok done with lecture I liking Rels so far and idk if GB is serious about his push on Rels at all. Vivax is town as well we had the same thought about the Chez stuff at the start of it. Wish HF and Sent would post more and have everyone else enter
LightningStrike, why does this make Vivax town? All he said was that Chezinu didn't soft claim mafia. Literally anyone other than GlowingBear would have told you that. Maybe GlowingBear was joking too.
And now I'm going to bed, since it's well past my bedtime. I'll re-evaluate LightningStrike once he answers my questions but I'm feeling okayish about him I think. Still need to reread Chezinu and GlowingBear.
I'll try to be here for the deadline tomorrow but no guarantees, I'm awful at waking up in the morning
Again, [UoN]Sentinel knew he was going to die when he was making those last few posts. So his reads are designed to confuse town after he died, they are WIFOM. You can't get anything from them because he's just trying to trick you. If [UoN]Sentinel pushed Palmar sooner I might understand what you are saying but that didn't happen.
Did you see my post towards the bottom of last page on why Rels would vote for [UoN]Sentinel there as mafia?
On April 02 2020 22:54 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, I've read all you've posted except for LS. If LS is mafia, he won the game. He's based town for me and I'm sure he will be the night kill tonight.
About Rels: Half of your case is assuming mafia would bus and his vote on Sentinel proves he is mafia. The second half is that Rels isn't really inspiring in this game and is parroting people, not really bringing lots of original thoughts. This I agree and was the reason I was wary of him.
About Palmar: Most of your points can be applied to anyone. 4th point is associative and it could be applied to me, for instance, that decided to switch from my top scumread to a townread (100% bad play). Not explaining too much of his reads isn't a mafia trait, he just said what he thinks and I find that pretty genuine. I also prefer not to say much, one liners are enough. He keeps saying "keep the game simple" and he is doing that. The only point I think you can be right is being uninterested. That could come from both alignments anyway.
Now, I'm not saying Palmar couldn't be mafia. I'm saying these points aren't really convincing me. You know what does make me think Palmar could be mafia? Sentinel trying to have me lynched instead of Palmar.
I would be lynching you today, although I like that you're trying and if you are town, it wouldn't be the first time I was dumb enough to not see it. But Chez made me want to believe Rels is mafia and I think it's fun. If the flips red I'll always follow the House of Brown.
Rels' vote on [UoN]Sentinel doesn't prove he is mafia, I literally said it's a wash. AKA I can't discern anything from it.
Why would town ever not explain their reads? Especially to the degree that Palmar has been? I don't understand.
On April 03 2020 00:52 Palmar wrote: Actually fuck it, I'm changing my mind.
Trfel has a 4 page filter Rels has a 9 page filter
I'm voting Trfel
This is a good case.
Rels is always going to post more than me, he's more of a discussion poster, I'm more of a case-based poster. Especially lately I've been working on having lower post counts and still providing quality content. I've provided more quality content than Rels has this game.
On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote: Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no?
This post is one of the reasons why Trfel was in my initial 4 "kill these and win" list. If he townreads Vivax, just say it, why format the read in a form of question? Is he apologetic about having a read?
Because it's early in the game and I want to hear what other people think?
Getting sick of people misconstruing everything I say. Even from days ago.
On April 03 2020 01:20 GlowingBear wrote: In other words, it's not about putting effort in being wrong, it's putting effort in sterile things. He doesn't think Rels is Mafia? Why is he putting effort in reinforcing the suspicions?
I'm not putting in effort to make other people suspect Rels, I'm trying to figure out Rels' alignment. I posted a large case on Palmar with quality content to persuade people to lynch Palmar instead of Rels. PLEASE stop with this nonsense.
On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right no'w.
Sure, if you just literally ignore all of the posts I've been making? Why is a stupidly easy meta check the only "serious work," ignoring all of my cases and analyses?
On April 02 2020 22:54 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, I've read all you've posted except for LS. If LS is mafia, he won the game. He's based town for me and I'm sure he will be the night kill tonight.
About Rels: Half of your case is assuming mafia would bus and his vote on Sentinel proves he is mafia. The second half is that Rels isn't really inspiring in this game and is parroting people, not really bringing lots of original thoughts. This I agree and was the reason I was wary of him.
About Palmar: Most of your points can be applied to anyone. 4th point is associative and it could be applied to me, for instance, that decided to switch from my top scumread to a townread (100% bad play). Not explaining too much of his reads isn't a mafia trait, he just said what he thinks and I find that pretty genuine. I also prefer not to say much, one liners are enough. He keeps saying "keep the game simple" and he is doing that. The only point I think you can be right is being uninterested. That could come from both alignments anyway.
Now, I'm not saying Palmar couldn't be mafia. I'm saying these points aren't really convincing me. You know what does make me think Palmar could be mafia? Sentinel trying to have me lynched instead of Palmar.
I would be lynching you today, although I like that you're trying and if you are town, it wouldn't be the first time I was dumb enough to not see it. But Chez made me want to believe Rels is mafia and I think it's fun. If the flips red I'll always follow the House of Brown.
Rels' vote on [UoN]Sentinel doesn't prove he is mafia, I literally said it's a wash. AKA I can't discern anything from it.
Why would town ever not explain their reads? Especially to the degree that Palmar has been? I don't understand.
In short, not all associations are equal. But I have also discussed those already, I'd be happy to discuss other things as well. I think the most suspicious thing in Rels' filter is how he switches from Palmar to [UoN]Sentinel on Day 2. Obviously this is extremely suspect given [UoN]Sentinel's alignment, but also makes no sense on its own (look at the way he does it, not just the fact that he did). To me it feels fake. He dropped his vote for (IMO) suspect reasons* and voted for his #2 suspect over his #1 suspect for no reason.
Isn't this associative read, Trfel?
I think Palmar is explaining, but in one liners.
It's not the fact that he did it, that makes sense as mafia but could come from town. It's the way that he does it that makes no sense, regardless of [UoN]Sentinel's alignment. That is the suspicious part.
Does that make sense? I can try to word it differently if not.
On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote: Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right no'w.
Sure, if you just literally ignore all of the posts I've been making? Why is a stupidly easy meta check the only "serious work," ignoring all of my cases and analyses?
You were afk at the time????
Yes, I was asleep, because I stayed up late to do extra analysis while Rels was sleeping.
On April 03 2020 01:20 GlowingBear wrote: In other words, it's not about putting effort in being wrong, it's putting effort in sterile things. He doesn't think Rels is Mafia? Why is he putting effort in reinforcing the suspicions?
I'm not putting in effort to make other people suspect Rels, I'm trying to figure out Rels' alignment. I posted a large case on Palmar with quality content to persuade people to lynch Palmar instead of Rels. PLEASE stop with this nonsense.
I'm sorry if you're town, Trfel, I just really can't see it. I understand what you're saying here, but I don't believe it.
If I am wrong, at least I'll understand it's a meta thing. Please don't be frustrated
No it is frustrating, because I've lost two games in a row by being lynched. I'm sick of this. My play has been solid, I'm confident Palmar is mafia, and everyone's lynching me instead while Palmar and his one-liners get away free.
On April 03 2020 02:21 LightningStrike wrote: But it's considered serious work when not everyone would do that as scum and just make up bullshit reasoning. Here he decided to check out that game and actually found something disproved Palmar's point on you.
On April 02 2020 22:54 GlowingBear wrote: Trfel, I've read all you've posted except for LS. If LS is mafia, he won the game. He's based town for me and I'm sure he will be the night kill tonight.
About Rels: Half of your case is assuming mafia would bus and his vote on Sentinel proves he is mafia. The second half is that Rels isn't really inspiring in this game and is parroting people, not really bringing lots of original thoughts. This I agree and was the reason I was wary of him.
About Palmar: Most of your points can be applied to anyone. 4th point is associative and it could be applied to me, for instance, that decided to switch from my top scumread to a townread (100% bad play). Not explaining too much of his reads isn't a mafia trait, he just said what he thinks and I find that pretty genuine. I also prefer not to say much, one liners are enough. He keeps saying "keep the game simple" and he is doing that. The only point I think you can be right is being uninterested. That could come from both alignments anyway.
Now, I'm not saying Palmar couldn't be mafia. I'm saying these points aren't really convincing me. You know what does make me think Palmar could be mafia? Sentinel trying to have me lynched instead of Palmar.
I would be lynching you today, although I like that you're trying and if you are town, it wouldn't be the first time I was dumb enough to not see it. But Chez made me want to believe Rels is mafia and I think it's fun. If the flips red I'll always follow the House of Brown.
Rels' vote on [UoN]Sentinel doesn't prove he is mafia, I literally said it's a wash. AKA I can't discern anything from it.
Why would town ever not explain their reads? Especially to the degree that Palmar has been? I don't understand.
In short, not all associations are equal. But I have also discussed those already, I'd be happy to discuss other things as well. I think the most suspicious thing in Rels' filter is how he switches from Palmar to [UoN]Sentinel on Day 2. Obviously this is extremely suspect given [UoN]Sentinel's alignment, but also makes no sense on its own (look at the way he does it, not just the fact that he did). To me it feels fake. He dropped his vote for (IMO) suspect reasons* and voted for his #2 suspect over his #1 suspect for no reason.
Isn't this associative read, Trfel?
I think Palmar is explaining, but in one liners.
It's not the fact that he did it, that makes sense as mafia but could come from town. It's the way that he does it that makes no sense, regardless of [UoN]Sentinel's alignment. That is the suspicious part.
Does that make sense? I can try to word it differently if not.
You see, I disagree that it doesn't make sense. He was pressuring Palmar, got a response, went to kill someone that could surely be Mafia. I think it makes total sense
Lemme copy paste this again.
I think the most suspicious thing in Rels' filter is how he switches from Palmar to [UoN]Sentinel on Day 2. Obviously this is extremely suspect given [UoN]Sentinel's alignment, but also makes no sense on its own (look at the way he does it, not just the fact that he did). To me it feels fake. He dropped his vote for (IMO) suspect reasons* and voted for his #2 suspect over his #1 suspect for no reason.
*I know he said he just voted for Palmar as a pressure vote. Palmar made a list post with little to no reasoning. Rels found it to be towny (how?) and also qualified this as Palmar playing the game (I strongly disagree, he showed barely any effort or thought).
The point in the asterisk is key. Rels had no reason to let up, he still has failed to explain why that post would affect anything in his reads.
On April 03 2020 01:20 GlowingBear wrote: In other words, it's not about putting effort in being wrong, it's putting effort in sterile things. He doesn't think Rels is Mafia? Why is he putting effort in reinforcing the suspicions?
I'm not putting in effort to make other people suspect Rels, I'm trying to figure out Rels' alignment. I posted a large case on Palmar with quality content to persuade people to lynch Palmar instead of Rels. PLEASE stop with this nonsense.
I'm sorry if you're town, Trfel, I just really can't see it. I understand what you're saying here, but I don't believe it.
If I am wrong, at least I'll understand it's a meta thing. Please don't be frustrated
No it is frustrating, because I've lost two games in a row by being lynched. I'm sick of this. My play has been solid, I'm confident Palmar is mafia, and everyone's lynching me instead while Palmar and his one-liners get away free.
On April 03 2020 02:21 LightningStrike wrote: But it's considered serious work when not everyone would do that as scum and just make up bullshit reasoning. Here he decided to check out that game and actually found something disproved Palmar's point on you.
Does my work not count as serious?!
You are doing serious work right now. Very undecided right now >.<
On April 03 2020 02:33 Trfel wrote: @Rels, what about Palmar's list post to you qualified as "playing the game" and "towny?"
are these quotes from me?
I don't think these few posts day 2 really showed the was playing the game, it's more that every post he made before these made sense with the mentality he claimed to have in this string of posts. Taking it cool, the game is going the way I want, the lynch is the lynch I want, no need to overcomplicate thing
Yes, those are quotes from you. You said you wanted to force Palmar to play the game, so I assume that when you removed your vote, that you felt that criteria had been met.
What about the times where Palmar was voting for his lesser scumread, or Day 1 where the lynch wasn't the lynch he wanted and he didn't really care? How does that fit in with this perception?
On April 03 2020 06:20 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yea I was hoping for this to be a more active game.
Personally I really did think the activity this game was fine. You guys got enough information out there to figure out who was town and who was mafia, no? What more could you ask for?
That said, if people wanted to play again, I'd be down to try and increase activity a bit. It's always easier if I am town, haha...
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yxX2qKG.gif)
