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On March 27 2020 11:01 Trfel wrote:
GlowingBear and everyone else, care to respond to the actual points I've raised instead of meaningless nonsense?
Getting kinda sick of this.
Yes, I'm confused because one of my main scumreads is voting for the other one. I'm not confident enough in my reads to vote, given the circumstance. If you have any actual help or comments on my reads to help sort this out, I would really appreciate it.
Otherwise, BUGGER OFF.
Alright, since apparently people aren't playing here anymore because we have to attack every point ever made in the forums, here is what I think about your points:
I never heard that Palmar has a great day 1. I don't believe this is a reliable meta.
I don't believe Palmar is just surviving. I believe he is being lazy on day1. And that's something I believe you also said?
Why do you believe Kelsier is Mafia? Solely Holyflare's case?
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My read on ShoCkeyy is that he's town but he's also wrong
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On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Ok time to be more serious HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him. The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But: Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote:
I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark. Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while? I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking.
What do you think of Vivax?
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On March 27 2020 11:15 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Ok time to be more serious HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him. The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But: On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote:
I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark. Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while? I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking. What do you think of Vivax?
On March 26 2020 04:04 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 03:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 26 2020 03:03 Fecalfeast wrote:Setup Information
The exact roles in this game are as follows:
Antivaxxer
Coughing Boomer
American Doctor
8x Healthy Boomer fixed This is slightly scummy because after the game started he decided to read the setup before posting.
I refuse to believe this is anything other than a joke read he's taking too seriously. But tunneling me aside I can't see anything wrong with his play so far.
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##Unvote
##Vote: KelsierSC
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On March 27 2020 11:15 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
My read on ShoCkeyy is that he's town but he's also wrong
What am I wrong about?
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On March 27 2020 11:14 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 11:01 Trfel wrote:
GlowingBear and everyone else, care to respond to the actual points I've raised instead of meaningless nonsense?
Getting kinda sick of this.
Yes, I'm confused because one of my main scumreads is voting for the other one. I'm not confident enough in my reads to vote, given the circumstance. If you have any actual help or comments on my reads to help sort this out, I would really appreciate it.
Otherwise, BUGGER OFF. Alright, since apparently people aren't playing here anymore because we have to attack every point ever made in the forums, here is what I think about your points: I never heard that Palmar has a great day 1. I don't believe this is a reliable meta. I don't believe Palmar is just surviving. I believe he is being lazy on day1. And that's something I believe you also said? Why do you believe Kelsier is Mafia? Solely Holyflare's case?
Palmar is definitely being lazy D1.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On March 27 2020 10:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 10:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 10:04 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:34 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 09:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:14 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel not voting Kelsier is probably the most suspicious thing in the game. Agrees with my wall of text, piles on with more reasons and doesn't vote. I also agree with Palmar that Shockeyy looks more and more like mafia. At least his reaction to Palmar saying something looked pretty bad and not in line with what I'd expect from him.
I think the reasoning that there's mafia between Trfel/Palmar/HF from Shockeyy doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. He's saying that two people agree with the case but also that I might be mafia. There aren't three mafia, it was pointed out to him and instead of re-evaluating his stance he doubled down on this false line of narrative. I never said there was three mafia? I know there's only two this game, I read the first post nah mean? I'm just saying that there's a possibility from those three people there's mafia. Ok, why exactly do you think I am/was mafia to begin with? Please just explain it in 3 short bullet points or sentences. 1. You claim you made a case vs Sentinel, but it was barely a case, then instantly swap to KelsierSC for saying your case blows and him voting for you? 2. You're telling people how mafia should be played yet most of us here have played together already for quite some time. 3. I've played with you on the mafia team before, and that post screams end of game posting style from our game together. 1. He voted for me after I made the case on him?? I also didn't only vote him for saying my case blows?? That's literally none of what I write about in my actual case on Kelsier?????? 2. Yet people still don't understand it. 3. Fine. Point 1 is based on memory, but I recall him saying your case on Sentinel blows, then you went off on Kelsier with your case, then voted for him.
But what part of my case relies on the premise that I am attacking Kelsier for saying my Sentinel case blows?
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On March 27 2020 11:27 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 11:15 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
My read on ShoCkeyy is that he's town but he's also wrong What am I wrong about?
Where HF is scum
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Trfel you've never played with a lazy Palmar D1?
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On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Ok time to be more serious HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him. The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But: Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote:
I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark. Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while? I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking.
that one of your two townreads is randomly Shockey is very townie in my eyes
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HF, care to comment on my posts?
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Trfel the more I read your Palmar case the more I think you're mafia. It's just too on the nose. You're very smart, but your reasonning is so focused on a surface level it doesn't match. Like this:
On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote:
Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches.
I don't see you believing this. It's too obvious - of course Palmar's play is disinterested, if you want to push him it's because you want to warn him of doing something or die or something like that. I have a hard time believing that you really think he slipped up and was too carefree in his posts ...
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like, it's what I felt HF was doing to Sent yesterday. But. HF was actually not believing it very strongly.
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On March 27 2020 11:54 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 10:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 10:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 10:04 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:34 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 09:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:14 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel not voting Kelsier is probably the most suspicious thing in the game. Agrees with my wall of text, piles on with more reasons and doesn't vote. I also agree with Palmar that Shockeyy looks more and more like mafia. At least his reaction to Palmar saying something looked pretty bad and not in line with what I'd expect from him.
I think the reasoning that there's mafia between Trfel/Palmar/HF from Shockeyy doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. He's saying that two people agree with the case but also that I might be mafia. There aren't three mafia, it was pointed out to him and instead of re-evaluating his stance he doubled down on this false line of narrative. I never said there was three mafia? I know there's only two this game, I read the first post nah mean? I'm just saying that there's a possibility from those three people there's mafia. Ok, why exactly do you think I am/was mafia to begin with? Please just explain it in 3 short bullet points or sentences. 1. You claim you made a case vs Sentinel, but it was barely a case, then instantly swap to KelsierSC for saying your case blows and him voting for you? 2. You're telling people how mafia should be played yet most of us here have played together already for quite some time. 3. I've played with you on the mafia team before, and that post screams end of game posting style from our game together. 1. He voted for me after I made the case on him?? I also didn't only vote him for saying my case blows?? That's literally none of what I write about in my actual case on Kelsier?????? 2. Yet people still don't understand it. 3. Fine. Point 1 is based on memory, but I recall him saying your case on Sentinel blows, then you went off on Kelsier with your case, then voted for him. But what part of my case relies on the premise that I am attacking Kelsier for saying my Sentinel case blows?
Ok here we gooooo.....
On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.
You literally claimed Kelsier would be confirmed mafia here, Kelsier last posts during this time were about him going to work, and about your other case against Sentinel blowing. You didn't really have reasoning here to think he was mafia just yet. His beginning posts which were much literally read as town to me.
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/557789-emergency-quarantine-mafia?page=11
On this page you decided to jump back to Sentinel
On March 26 2020 13:38 Holyflare wrote:
It is not about what I think. It's about what you think. You think it's strong or you do not, you jump on it or do not. That does not bother me. I put my thoughts in the thread for people to see and call out things that should be called out. You are effectively defending Sentinel playing atrociously and even going so far as self-voting when called out to do what? Vote me and say you don't like the way I'm playing right now?
There are three fundamental questions that you need to answer now, Rels:
Do you agree or disagree with the premise that Sentinel has played sub-optimally, flown under the radar and was just not funny?
When I applied pressure to Sentinel and voted him and he self-voted, did he perpetuate the case on him even further or react helpfully?
When Sentinel reacted poorly to pressure did I look worse or better?
We actually care what you think, if you're actually town, we should care about what you think. Then directly after this post, you make that huge "case" against Kelsier which literally had almost his only posts. You were flip floppy here between either or trying to get a wagon going. Kelsier seemed like an easier lynch at this point because two players also joined, so let's completely forget about your first push.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On March 27 2020 12:32 GlowingBear wrote:
HF, care to comment on my posts?
Trfel is weird, yes. I don't agree with any of his points on Palmar since Palmar can absolutely just be lazy. Not much to comment on really. I still think Kelsier is a much higher chance of being mafia.
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On March 27 2020 12:32 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Ok time to be more serious HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him. The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But: On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote:
I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark. Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while? I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking. that one of your two townreads is randomly Shockey is very townie in my eyes
I don't follow, please explain
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On March 27 2020 12:47 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 11:54 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 10:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 10:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 10:04 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:34 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 09:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 09:14 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel not voting Kelsier is probably the most suspicious thing in the game. Agrees with my wall of text, piles on with more reasons and doesn't vote. I also agree with Palmar that Shockeyy looks more and more like mafia. At least his reaction to Palmar saying something looked pretty bad and not in line with what I'd expect from him.
I think the reasoning that there's mafia between Trfel/Palmar/HF from Shockeyy doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. He's saying that two people agree with the case but also that I might be mafia. There aren't three mafia, it was pointed out to him and instead of re-evaluating his stance he doubled down on this false line of narrative. I never said there was three mafia? I know there's only two this game, I read the first post nah mean? I'm just saying that there's a possibility from those three people there's mafia. Ok, why exactly do you think I am/was mafia to begin with? Please just explain it in 3 short bullet points or sentences. 1. You claim you made a case vs Sentinel, but it was barely a case, then instantly swap to KelsierSC for saying your case blows and him voting for you? 2. You're telling people how mafia should be played yet most of us here have played together already for quite some time. 3. I've played with you on the mafia team before, and that post screams end of game posting style from our game together. 1. He voted for me after I made the case on him?? I also didn't only vote him for saying my case blows?? That's literally none of what I write about in my actual case on Kelsier?????? 2. Yet people still don't understand it. 3. Fine. Point 1 is based on memory, but I recall him saying your case on Sentinel blows, then you went off on Kelsier with your case, then voted for him. But what part of my case relies on the premise that I am attacking Kelsier for saying my Sentinel case blows? Ok here we gooooo..... Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia. You literally claimed Kelsier would be confirmed mafia here, Kelsier last posts during this time were about him going to work, and about your other case against Sentinel blowing. You didn't really have reasoning here to think he was mafia just yet. His beginning posts which were much literally read as town to me. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/557789-emergency-quarantine-mafia?page=11On this page you decided to jump back to Sentinel Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 13:38 Holyflare wrote:
It is not about what I think. It's about what you think. You think it's strong or you do not, you jump on it or do not. That does not bother me. I put my thoughts in the thread for people to see and call out things that should be called out. You are effectively defending Sentinel playing atrociously and even going so far as self-voting when called out to do what? Vote me and say you don't like the way I'm playing right now?
There are three fundamental questions that you need to answer now, Rels:
Do you agree or disagree with the premise that Sentinel has played sub-optimally, flown under the radar and was just not funny?
When I applied pressure to Sentinel and voted him and he self-voted, did he perpetuate the case on him even further or react helpfully?
When Sentinel reacted poorly to pressure did I look worse or better? We actually care what you think, if you're actually town, we should care about what you think. Then directly after this post, you make that huge "case" against Kelsier which literally had almost his only posts. You were flip floppy here between either or trying to get a wagon going. Kelsier seemed like an easier lynch at this point because two players also joined, so let's completely forget about your first push.
I don't know what point you're trying to raise to be honest. Do you think that when I created the case on Kelsier those points magically jumped out to me while I was making it or do you think I already had a pre-determined set of points that I wanted to raise in the thread?
Trfel asked me about that first quote here:
On March 26 2020 15:39 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote:
Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this. It's not too difficult to understand. I still think the points on Sentinel are apt, he's done nothing but flounder in the thread. What does that make his alignment? Pretty undertermined at this point in truth, unfortunately. Psychologically, and rather egotistically, players are more drawn to seeing their name typed in the thread and reacting to those posts. If you just acknowledge the basic tenets of a mafia player (as I outlined) and extrapolate that all townies should be looking out for that behaviour specifically (because really, that's how you find mafia in every game) then Sentinel should have acknowledged Kelsier's stances on himself. If Sentinel is town, then he should see Kelsier say that the lynch on him is bad but then totally 180 on himself and meekly support it as the best lynch. That is a bad look for Kelsier, if Sentinel is town, because he is lynch bait and Kelsier is jumping on him. Why specifically did I call out Sentinel for it? Mostly for the above, a bit for reaction fishing from other people and also a tad in hopes Kelsier would react (although I think he might of gone to sleep at this point). Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia. For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read Sentinel doesn't really understand why I said it so that leaves me with either: Sentinel is not critically thinking about the game in any way, shape or form as a townie. OR Sentinel is mafia and doesn't subconsciously put together the things that naturally come to a townie. I'm hesitant to say it's the latter but we'll see. Kelsier is a great vote at least.
I had already determined that Kelsier was mafia and wanted to test the waters with Sentinel some more to see if they were either mafia together or if there was a chance Sentinel could be town. It was entirely inconclusive but that's neither here nor there.
I also didn't "jump back to Sentinel", I was questioning (and answering at some point) Rels' questions. You can see how I'm trying to reach a conclusion on RELS (not Sentinel) because I am asking Rels questions in relation to the events. So, no, I didn't become undecided between the two, since none of these questions relate to MY read on Sentinel in the slightest, rather Rels' read progression on me and Sentinel.
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On March 27 2020 12:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 12:32 Rels wrote:On March 27 2020 11:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Ok time to be more serious HF's case on KSC is solid and I can't find any real counters to it and Kelsier's reaction has been a resounding "pls no bully". HF is definitely town and KSC is probably scum. I say probably only because he might reappear in the thread and defend himself. But scummy enough that I can put my real vote on him. The Trfel case was... bad. To me it looks more like grasping at straws and bad town rather than a scum play though. But: On March 27 2020 09:42 Trfel wrote:
I don't like voting early on Day 1, I'd rather wait for more information to come out. My vote will be there by the deadline, don't worry about it.
I never know what to think of Holyflare.
I don't really care much about [UoN]Sentinel at the moment. He hasn't posted much and the little he has posted contains a forced-feeling self-vote. I'm holding back judgement for now though, he may have some sort of explanation. I'd much rather kill KelsierSC than [UoN]Sentinel at this point, especially if KelsierSC isn't coming back. There are actual reasons to scumread KelsierSC, I greatly prefer that to [UoN]Sentinel, who is largely a question mark. Granted I wasn't here and neither were half the players but the wishy-washiness of the last paragraph is suspicious. Is KSC + Palmar the scumteam? Neither of whom has shown up for a while? I have 5 reads and in order of towniness they're me > HF > ShoCkeyy > Trfel > KSC. The reason I don't want to mark Trfel as red just yet is because his case on Palmar does strike me as a town attempt and because there's a good chance one or two mafia are lurking. that one of your two townreads is randomly Shockey is very townie in my eyes I don't follow, please explain
I don't think shockey is obviously townie. As scum in your first real post on the game, I think you would include some obvious town from your point of view in your reads. So, basically GB. But you didn't.
This feels like a natural read to me
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Trfel / KSC is pretty possible. It would explain Trfel agreeing with the KSC case while finding someone else to divert the lynch
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EPT
