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[N]Emergency Quarantine Mafia - Page 23

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:01 GMT
#441
HF do you have a read on Chez?
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:01 GMT
#442
Chez can you copy / paste a rayn's read list?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 04:04 GMT
#443
It's really quite clear, there is a guy that has never had a problem with me in any previous game suddenly spouting ad hominem attacks about how my playstyle killed the forum and how he won't respond to any case against him and won't play until I'm out of the game despite never saying it has been a problem in any game I've ever played with him.

Let's make that really simple:

If I am mafia, it's my job to simply lynch TOWN Kelsier, it's part and parcel that I would create a narrative to lynch him or drown him out with a wall of text. Why would it be a game breaking problem that I created a case on him?

If I am town and Kelsier is town, he has never expressed any hesitance about my playstyle ever before, I could be wrong and he could just ignore it and hunt for mafia. I didn't push that case against him just in case he was feeling bad and Palmar etc gave him many outs to come back repeatedly for a good 12+ hours and he did nothing with it.

If I am town and Kelsier is mafia, he has to create a narrative and excuses to not play, deflect from the case and react to the pressure. He KNOWS that a town Holyflare is a bully (has any of my behaviour this game been bullyish? - look at my filter to find evidence that he knows I make cases as town) and he reacts badly.

The only thing that makes sense is the bolded since, like my case said, he has the perfect narrative and his mafia style is to "deconstruct" with the perfect information rather than construct cases and direction to the thread flow.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 04:04 GMT
#444
On March 27 2020 13:01 Rels wrote:
HF do you have a read on Chez?


Not a clue.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 04:08 GMT
#445
I went back and read Trfel's last game and it feels a lot more free flowing and conversationally asking questions in paragraphs than I'm seeing here. Don't know if it means anything but it's definitely a different playstyle at least. This seems more like state facts, no intrigue?
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:15 GMT
#446
On March 27 2020 13:08 Holyflare wrote:
I went back and read Trfel's last game and it feels a lot more free flowing and conversationally asking questions in paragraphs than I'm seeing here. Don't know if it means anything but it's definitely a different playstyle at least. This seems more like state facts, no intrigue?

In my mind Trfel was more of a case maker than a freeflowing talker, but I probably didn't play with him in a long time
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:17 GMT
#447
yeah he does seem pretty investigative in his last game
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 04:24 GMT
#448
I guess it doesn't help that the two people he likes for mafia are afkers right now so that might be cause for it. Trfel, I'd appreciate you dropping a vote at least as a commitment thing, there's literally nothing stopping you changing it later.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:27 GMT
#449
on this part TBH I don't understand you or GB. I don't see how him not voting early makes him scummy.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 04:40 GMT
#450
On March 27 2020 13:27 Rels wrote:
on this part TBH I don't understand you or GB. I don't see how him not voting early makes him scummy.


I didn't say it did necessarily but why even have hesitance? It's not like your vote can't move once you have placed it and an added vote count creates pressure to the intended person you are voting, otherwise what's the pressure at all?

If he agrees with my case, had further points to add to it about Kelsier's stance on LS then it's kind of strange suddenly to NOT be certain about where to place your vote and to be suddenly "conflicted" that Palmar, his other new scum read, is also voting Kelsier?

It's just a line of text in a vote thread, what's the big deal about not being sure? It creates pressure and shows your INTENTION throughout the game to give players more information about where your head was at at any given time.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 04:41 GMT
#451
Literally the point of any townie is that you have ONE power and that's the power to vote.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:42 GMT
#452
I thought KSC had an history of being angry but reading his last few games I might have been wrong. That makes his outburst even worse looking that I thought
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:45 GMT
#453
On March 27 2020 13:40 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2020 13:27 Rels wrote:
on this part TBH I don't understand you or GB. I don't see how him not voting early makes him scummy.


I didn't say it did necessarily but why even have hesitance? It's not like your vote can't move once you have placed it and an added vote count creates pressure to the intended person you are voting, otherwise what's the pressure at all?

If he agrees with my case, had further points to add to it about Kelsier's stance on LS then it's kind of strange suddenly to NOT be certain about where to place your vote and to be suddenly "conflicted" that Palmar, his other new scum read, is also voting Kelsier?

It's just a line of text in a vote thread, what's the big deal about not being sure? It creates pressure and shows your INTENTION throughout the game to give players more information about where your head was at at any given time.

I mean, yes to everything, in a perfect world that's right ... but in my experience it's common for certain townies to hold their vote when they're not sure, so that's kind of a moot point in my opinion
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:46 GMT
#454
Speaking of placing vote
##Vote KelsierSC
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
March 27 2020 04:54 GMT
#455
well, bedtime for me!
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 27 2020 04:59 GMT
#456
Meh I don’t think Kelsier can be mafia. I see Rels as town but I can’t see kelsier as mafia. I might be wrong but he just started the game, was trying to feel good about starting up a new mafia game, and instead people are shitting on him for a not so strong opening. For that I rather vote Palmar...
Life?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 05:03 GMT
#457
You can't possibly see any situation where Kelsier is mafia??? What are his strong points in his filter?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
March 27 2020 05:03 GMT
#458
Also why do you keep asking me questions or giving statements for reasons I'm mafia but not interacting with me about my explanations?
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 27 2020 05:41 GMT
#459
On March 27 2020 14:03 Holyflare wrote:
You can't possibly see any situation where Kelsier is mafia??? What are his strong points in his filter?


Hmm instantly twisted my words but ok.
Life?
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 27 2020 06:03 GMT
#460
On March 27 2020 12:53 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2020 12:47 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 27 2020 11:54 Holyflare wrote:
On March 27 2020 10:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 27 2020 10:14 Holyflare wrote:
On March 27 2020 10:04 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 27 2020 09:34 Holyflare wrote:
On March 27 2020 09:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 27 2020 09:14 Holyflare wrote:
Trfel not voting Kelsier is probably the most suspicious thing in the game. Agrees with my wall of text, piles on with more reasons and doesn't vote. I also agree with Palmar that Shockeyy looks more and more like mafia. At least his reaction to Palmar saying something looked pretty bad and not in line with what I'd expect from him.

I think the reasoning that there's mafia between Trfel/Palmar/HF from Shockeyy doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. He's saying that two people agree with the case but also that I might be mafia. There aren't three mafia, it was pointed out to him and instead of re-evaluating his stance he doubled down on this false line of narrative.


I never said there was three mafia? I know there's only two this game, I read the first post nah mean? I'm just saying that there's a possibility from those three people there's mafia.


Ok, why exactly do you think I am/was mafia to begin with? Please just explain it in 3 short bullet points or sentences.


1. You claim you made a case vs Sentinel, but it was barely a case, then instantly swap to KelsierSC for saying your case blows and him voting for you?

2. You're telling people how mafia should be played yet most of us here have played together already for quite some time.

3. I've played with you on the mafia team before, and that post screams end of game posting style from our game together.


1. He voted for me after I made the case on him?? I also didn't only vote him for saying my case blows?? That's literally none of what I write about in my actual case on Kelsier??????

2. Yet people still don't understand it.

3. Fine.


Point 1 is based on memory, but I recall him saying your case on Sentinel blows, then you went off on Kelsier with your case, then voted for him.


But what part of my case relies on the premise that I am attacking Kelsier for saying my Sentinel case blows?


Ok here we gooooo.....

On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.


You literally claimed Kelsier would be confirmed mafia here, Kelsier last posts during this time were about him going to work, and about your other case against Sentinel blowing. You didn't really have reasoning here to think he was mafia just yet. His beginning posts which were much literally read as town to me.

https://tl.net/forum/mafia/557789-emergency-quarantine-mafia?page=11

On this page you decided to jump back to Sentinel

On March 26 2020 13:38 Holyflare wrote:
It is not about what I think. It's about what you think. You think it's strong or you do not, you jump on it or do not. That does not bother me. I put my thoughts in the thread for people to see and call out things that should be called out. You are effectively defending Sentinel playing atrociously and even going so far as self-voting when called out to do what? Vote me and say you don't like the way I'm playing right now?

There are three fundamental questions that you need to answer now, Rels:

Do you agree or disagree with the premise that Sentinel has played sub-optimally, flown under the radar and was just not funny?

When I applied pressure to Sentinel and voted him and he self-voted, did he perpetuate the case on him even further or react helpfully?

When Sentinel reacted poorly to pressure did I look worse or better?


We actually care what you think, if you're actually town, we should care about what you think. Then directly after this post, you make that huge "case" against Kelsier which literally had almost his only posts. You were flip floppy here between either or trying to get a wagon going. Kelsier seemed like an easier lynch at this point because two players also joined, so let's completely forget about your first push.


I don't know what point you're trying to raise to be honest. Do you think that when I created the case on Kelsier those points magically jumped out to me while I was making it or do you think I already had a pre-determined set of points that I wanted to raise in the thread?

Trfel asked me about that first quote here:

Show nested quote +
On March 26 2020 15:39 Holyflare wrote:
On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote:
Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.

However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this.


It's not too difficult to understand. I still think the points on Sentinel are apt, he's done nothing but flounder in the thread. What does that make his alignment? Pretty undertermined at this point in truth, unfortunately.

Psychologically, and rather egotistically, players are more drawn to seeing their name typed in the thread and reacting to those posts. If you just acknowledge the basic tenets of a mafia player (as I outlined) and extrapolate that all townies should be looking out for that behaviour specifically (because really, that's how you find mafia in every game) then Sentinel should have acknowledged Kelsier's stances on himself.

If Sentinel is town, then he should see Kelsier say that the lynch on him is bad but then totally 180 on himself and meekly support it as the best lynch. That is a bad look for Kelsier, if Sentinel is town, because he is lynch bait and Kelsier is jumping on him.

Why specifically did I call out Sentinel for it? Mostly for the above, a bit for reaction fishing from other people and also a tad in hopes Kelsier would react (although I think he might of gone to sleep at this point).

On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia.

For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read


Sentinel doesn't really understand why I said it so that leaves me with either:

Sentinel is not critically thinking about the game in any way, shape or form as a townie.

OR

Sentinel is mafia and doesn't subconsciously put together the things that naturally come to a townie.

I'm hesitant to say it's the latter but we'll see. Kelsier is a great vote at least.


I had already determined that Kelsier was mafia and wanted to test the waters with Sentinel some more to see if they were either mafia together or if there was a chance Sentinel could be town. It was entirely inconclusive but that's neither here nor there.

I also didn't "jump back to Sentinel", I was questioning (and answering at some point) Rels' questions. You can see how I'm trying to reach a conclusion on RELS (not Sentinel) because I am asking Rels questions in relation to the events. So, no, I didn't become undecided between the two, since none of these questions relate to MY read on Sentinel in the slightest, rather Rels' read progression on me and Sentinel.


The point I was trying to make is that you instantly came with a list of his posts, gave your opinion why you think he’s mafia only after being pressured to give reasons, but it’s literally KC first few posts. Essentially what you’re criticizing him for is what you’re doing to him. Giving opinions. But hey you determined he was mafia at some point with only about 10 posts.
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