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On February 08 2016 03:37 NocturneMage wrote:disformation - You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean. Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush.
I don't think marv was invested at all.
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EBWOP - JAT did as well, but point stands - time and effort. Additionally marv had cause for reconsidering Zyrre and even more than Koshi ever did consider in comparison.
Consider that.
He's townie to me, just on the wrong side of the fence for that.
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On February 08 2016 03:33 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 00:59 disformation wrote:
Looking through VA's filter.
I like that he was able to step back and reevaluate NM. I also like a few other posts and his tone. Didn't really like the suggestion for a NVT to claim. There are also not that many reads in his filter imo.
Would like him to put out a few more of those. There were a few things I didn't like about VA which I discussed, and he's not done much to show he's town (the lynch Palmar thing after the day 1 lynch where he's effectively claimed scum won't say much). Additionally, if Palmar is scum, his vote on Palmar is actually bad - it screams bus city for 3 reasons. (1) it was inorganic (2) it was well after concerns about Palmar had been expressed (pokes particularly by Marv early in the game I'm sure were before this) (3) it was done at a time where he needed town cred (mafia motivation is to bus for cred), because at that time, only Damdred was townreading him, or heck it might have even been before that. ritoky and I were scumreading VA to some various degree, and I don't think most of this game had a read on VA when they were asked to eval VA v myself VA prior to getting on Palmar's wagon was pushing me and when he couldn't do that, he dropped the scumread, Additionally when I pushed him further earlier on, he got very defensive. Quotes: Show nested quote +On February 06 2016 03:10 VayneAuthority wrote:On February 06 2016 02:59 NocturneMage wrote:EBWOP (at disformation): On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar
He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here Read VAs filter. ZERO mention of Palmar and this timing was well after my post/others' discussion. Ask him that too. has the nocturnemage ever heard of sleep by any chance? Of course I wasn't around for 250+ posts when I'm sleeping. I really can't understand your constant antagonizing, making a case on me is fine but these constant asinine nitpicks are insane. I really don't understand. Show nested quote +On February 06 2016 03:58 VayneAuthority wrote:
The only thing truly scummy about NM disform is how he is a huge hypocrite. He is constantly berating me/scumreading me for things and then ignores anything that would have to make him justify it. Really annoying playstyle that makes it impossible to read him. Especially the problem with the above is that the "sleep" explanation doesn't cover for his push on me earlier and his not mentioning Palmar at that time. It doesn't answer the concern in the least. Now admittedly at this point in time, the vote thing is unflipped association, but if Palmar flips mafia, then he looks really bad despite voting Palmar.
dam dude you are even worse then I thought. Thinking I am lying about sleeping, that is really reaching. Especially when the reason for me being mafia would make you mafia by proxy, pretty faulty reasoning.
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On February 08 2016 03:40 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:37 NocturneMage wrote:disformation - You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean. On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush. I don't think marv was invested at all.
at all?????
Are you not understanding what I mean by time and effort?
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Oh and VA, I'm not saying you are lying about sleeping. That wasn't what my point was at all. Considering my purpose of stating that in there along with my explanation before and after, I think you are (quite likely intentionally) missing the point.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I voted first on palmar which set the train rolling. Both jat and damdred trust my read on palmar and you can find that in their filters. Maybe there's others too. I pushed and explained my reasons several times.
And I don't really regret the switch to Zyrre, I'd outlined my reasons for a long time and he was so meek and stilted, it's the kind of 'mistake' I'd make again
I was very clear about what I might and might not do and I was always gonna be pretty absent this weekend
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On February 08 2016 03:42 NocturneMage wrote:
Oh and VA, I'm not saying you are lying about sleeping. That wasn't what my point was at all. Considering my purpose of stating that in there along with my explanation before and after, I think you are (quite likely intentionally) missing the point.
1. you are tunneling
2. you are fabricating whatever your point is, the only way that explanation makes sense is if you think I was lying about sleeping. The only way I would be able to join in the palmar discussion was if i was in the thread at the time.
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On February 08 2016 03:40 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:40 disformation wrote:On February 08 2016 03:37 NocturneMage wrote:disformation - You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean. On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush. I don't think marv was invested at all. at all????? Are you not understanding what I mean by time and effort?
He likes your case on palmar (without ever having a read on you). Flicks through palmar's filter. writes a 3 liner on palmar. writes a slightly better explanation on palmar b4 he leaves.
Comes back switches to zyrre (who granted he also had a scumread on though I find that one dubious).
So no I am not really seeing effort and time here.
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Friendly reminder that I am not mafia
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I look forward to the Marv v Palmer ding dong.
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On February 08 2016 03:47 Palmar wrote:
Friendly reminder that I am not mafia
Cool. Can you tell us who are not your team mates? 
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On February 07 2016 22:30 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 22:20 disformation wrote:On February 07 2016 22:17 Chezinu wrote:
Marv
boxer
disformation Is that your town list or your scum list? interest list. Marv and boxer scum team would be interesting.
Unless I missed it somewhere already, can you help me understand you a little better? Are you implying that marv and boxerfred are on a scumteam? Or are you saying it's unlikely?
The word "interesting" only tells me that it's a point worth further investigation - and some people in this thread might not even read it as that from my experience.
Are you implying something about their interactions?
I know you trolled disformation earlier but how does that tie into this?
(And if someone experienced with Chez, preferably a townread can help, that'd be great too.)
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 08 2016 03:47 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:40 NocturneMage wrote:On February 08 2016 03:40 disformation wrote:On February 08 2016 03:37 NocturneMage wrote:disformation - You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean. On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush. I don't think marv was invested at all. at all????? Are you not understanding what I mean by time and effort? He likes your case on palmar (without ever having a read on you). Flicks through palmar's filter. writes a 3 liner on palmar. writes a slightly better explanation on palmar b4 he leaves. Comes back switches to zyrre (who granted he also had a scumread on though I find that one dubious). So no I am not really seeing effort and time here.
It's like you're trying to paint me in the worst possible light, it's kinda annoying. You find my read on Zyrre dubious? Why? I explained exactly why
Jat (town lest we forget) totally agreed with the difference between the two Zyrre filters.
Tldr: you're annoying
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Also. Since scum shot the only two persons I really trusted in this damn game I need someone to sheep.
Taking applications as to why I should sheep you, when I can start sheeping you and what your plans are to solve this game by day 3. Thank you guys.
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On February 08 2016 03:46 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:42 NocturneMage wrote:
Oh and VA, I'm not saying you are lying about sleeping. That wasn't what my point was at all. Considering my purpose of stating that in there along with my explanation before and after, I think you are (quite likely intentionally) missing the point. 1. you are tunneling 2. you are fabricating whatever your point is, the only way that explanation makes sense is if you think I was lying about sleeping. The only way I would be able to join in the palmar discussion was if i was in the thread at the time.
(1) Nope. I'm pretty sure you're mafia. Try again.
(2) Nope again, you don't have to be in thread with Palmar to make that conclusion ahead of the time. Nor was my point even about you interacting with Palmar. Your reasoning for Palmar was this:
On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar
He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here
Which is a point that is irrelevant to interactions.
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On February 08 2016 03:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:47 disformation wrote:On February 08 2016 03:40 NocturneMage wrote:On February 08 2016 03:40 disformation wrote:On February 08 2016 03:37 NocturneMage wrote:disformation - You should be aware by now how invested JAT/marv were in the Palmar wagons. BY CONTRAST, Koshi was not as invested in the Zyrre wagon (amount of time/rationale). Am I making sense here? I'm going to use the first part of Rels' case to show you what I mean. On February 08 2016 00:54 Rels wrote:This post got way bigger than I though, I'm trying my best to organize it. I don't like Koshi at all, he might very well be scum. Here is why: 1D1 the only real thing he did was pushing kush + opposing Palmar's lynch. That's it. No read on anyone else, especially Zyrre. Like, I think this is the only post about Zyrre in his filter: On February 05 2016 08:10 Koshi wrote:On February 05 2016 08:05 Damdred wrote:
That zyrre post is so bad for so many reasons It actually isn't. I can see him believe that. I can believe it. Then: On February 06 2016 02:58 Koshi wrote:
Kush comming in and giving a townread on Palmar and rescind a townread on Zyrre is not doing things. Well, he ended up voting Zurre with kush. I don't think marv was invested at all. at all????? Are you not understanding what I mean by time and effort? He likes your case on palmar (without ever having a read on you). Flicks through palmar's filter. writes a 3 liner on palmar. writes a slightly better explanation on palmar b4 he leaves. Comes back switches to zyrre (who granted he also had a scumread on though I find that one dubious). So no I am not really seeing effort and time here. It's like you're trying to paint me in the worst possible light, it's kinda annoying. You find my read on Zyrre dubious? Why? I explained exactly why Jat (town lest we forget) totally agreed with the difference between the two Zyrre filters. Tldr: you're annoying
Yeah, sry currently extremely paranoid and conf. biasing over everyone.
Should step back and do something else until palmar gets back.
Though I think you and NM are probably unlikely scum if palmar flips red, Adn I am giving him a higher % to be red.
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This next post is mainly for Rels and disformation regarding Moosy Doosy -
Day 1 - read pages 39 through 41
On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
(1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town.
(2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred.
On February 05 2016 14:22 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
(1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town.
(2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred. Seeing as ritoky picked disformation and Rels as townreads, I'm going to ask you this next question. Both disformation and Rels have both scumread me at points for not being able to follow my train of thought. What does this make you think of them?
Night 1/Day 2
On February 07 2016 02:38 MoosyDoosy wrote:
There were some things about ritoky that ticked in my mind. I think it was concerning disfo.
mMmmm....I'm also conflicted on Rels which is never ever a good thing.
On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows.
ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting.
On February 07 2016 03:02 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows.
ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting. Well here's the thing, for me for Rels - a key scum tell is him taking words/quotes/etc out of context. When he was pushing me day 1, he didn't see me logically and in most of my games I am able to get my arguments out in a logical manner. Here he didn't understand my early push on VA, quite frankly, no one did, and I saw his interactions with other people, and I didn't see any of those scum tells that makes me wary. Town Rels has a cleaner game IMO from what I see. as for the ritoky/disformation I cannot see how what you are saying makes EITHER of those two mafia. Disformation makes a shit case because (a) he cannot articulate himself well (b) he's confirmation biasing (which JAT basically confirmed near end of cycle) (c) he's mafia. Point is, disformation is not entirely scummy, and neither is ritoky for pushing in in that direction. And regardless of whom is implicated, me, Palmar, etc, I can't see how that winds back up at ritoky. Like this really isn't clear to me. At best you have pre-flip read here.
Can either of you - or anyone else if you wish - comment on these reads by MoosyDoosy here? Something feels off but I can't put my finger on it. His criteria for reading me is completely wrong, whether it's contrived is 50/50. I've only played with him twice.
The thing with my questioning on day 1 if you read through page 42 I think is he eventually bailed when I talked to him as to why he was scumreading ritoky. It felt weird and "it's Day 1" doesn't cut it. Just answer the question and then leave.
Rels especially his read on you, and especially how you scumread me for not being logical day 1 versus him townreading me day 1 for being convoluted. It's just weird.
Also I told him there's no way his read circles back to ritoky as mafia.
Also his following Day 2 was telling me to spit out fire - I'm assuming reads - but looking through his filter I think if anyone needs to spit out reads, I think it's him, quite frankly. He has marv/DF as town d1 and concerns with Rels.
That's it.
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EBWOP - the stuff with ritoky/disformation I think MD aimed more at ritoky who is flipped, and not disformation, though I still commented on the latter with him.
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I need to go afk and do some stuff, but I'll re-read boxerfred when I return.
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Marv's Palmar progression
+ Show Spoiler +On February 04 2016 22:34 marvellosity wrote:
jat: i don't have a particular opinion on Palmar On February 04 2016 23:00 marvellosity wrote:
oh Palmar gave a longer/prettier answer. well boo On February 05 2016 20:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 18:57 justanothertownie wrote:
Ah, misunderstood your post Koshi. Carry on.
Would have to check the meta part of NMs Palmar case but regardless I still agree with the conclusion. Maybe we should just try to lynch that lazy jackass today. Very tempting. ##unvote
##Vote Palmar*holds out hand* On February 06 2016 02:35 marvellosity wrote:okay, quick post before I go. Thoughts on the lynch: Palmar - my vote is on him, and he's a decent lynch. Actually I think his absence today is kinda non-admissable, i think as either alignment he'd show up if he could. Not totally sure though. My main issue with Palmar is that he has quite a few posts but none of them are really pushing anything forward or finding mafia. Ironically if his filter was half the size I'd be more inclined to think he was town. If he comes in later while i'm out and makes a case on me, lynch him. Just lynch him. He knows I am town (or should at least feel i am) and would never want to lynch me today, he'd only be doing it to destabilise whatever influence I have on town. And yes he'd do it even after I wrote this. He may come back and look town, which is nice. I'd also note it's not beyond mafia Palmar to afk and hope for the best when he's mafia, even if i do rather think he'd come and try do stuff. Zyrre - I wrote stuff already. But really I just want people to do this. I will make it easy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?user=Zyrrehttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/422313-newbie-mini-mafia-xlv?user=ZyrreHis filter from this game, and his towngame in the newbie. Just read the first page of the newbie game. Just do it.. I find it very, very hard to believe these 2 filters are from the same alignment. The filters are just *so* *different*. I'm not even going to do any explanation. If you can't see it, stab yourself in the face for being terrible. For him to be town I'd have to believe he's just SOOOOO overawed by this game (I do not believe this for a moment, not to this extent). I think I trust jat. tbh if I didn't think I was coming back at all before deadline I'd place my vote on Zyrre right now. But I will leave it on Palmar for now and change it later as necessary. On February 06 2016 07:09 marvellosity wrote:
I can't escape the socialising so I've not read anything. So many palmar votes and not so on Zyrre. I'm gonna vote Zyrre, he's my top % play.
Palmer could well still be mafia but the votecount made me a little nervous and I really think Zyrre is mafia. Maybe palmar can have another day?
unvote
##vote Zyrre
I'm not going to be able to read ppls replies to this really so just do what you think is best. This is what I think is best for now and that's all I have control over.
I agree that Marv was not invested in the Palmar lynch and was quite wishy washy for someone who apparently has the hard reads on him.
"I think his absence is non-admissible... but it could come from either alignment... not totally sure though... oh yea btw if he comes back while i'm gone and says im scum, DONT LISTEN TO HIM (even though I just said his play could come from either alignment") If his lack of play could come from either alignment, it's false to say it's non-admissible.
He also says that if he thought he wasn't going to come back before the deadline, he would vote for Zyrre, but that he's keeping his vote on Palmar and change it later if necessary. Except that a few paragraphs earlier he specifically told everyone not to drink the Palmar Kool-Aid and keep your vote on him.
He then jumps on the "VC is making me nervous train at #1319" (I had commented on it at #1308) and switches to Zyrre. This progression/line of reasoning throughout is suspicious to me and i'm scum reading marv
Get Zyrre ML D1 is easy, while knowing it will leave Palmar in an almost impossible hole to fight out of D2 given the rapid vote swing, guaranteeing another mislynch.
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EPT
