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On February 08 2016 03:54 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 03:46 VayneAuthority wrote:On February 08 2016 03:42 NocturneMage wrote:
Oh and VA, I'm not saying you are lying about sleeping. That wasn't what my point was at all. Considering my purpose of stating that in there along with my explanation before and after, I think you are (quite likely intentionally) missing the point. 1. you are tunneling 2. you are fabricating whatever your point is, the only way that explanation makes sense is if you think I was lying about sleeping. The only way I would be able to join in the palmar discussion was if i was in the thread at the time. (1) Nope. I'm pretty sure you're mafia. Try again. (2) Nope again, you don't have to be in thread with Palmar to make that conclusion ahead of the time. Nor was my point even about you interacting with Palmar. Your reasoning for Palmar was this: Show nested quote +On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and ##vote: Palmar
He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here Which is a point that is irrelevant to interactions.
Nope 
Talking to you is like a brick wall that spouts gibberish, does anyone even understand what this guy is talking about? im putting him in chezinu territory at this point
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My unconfident side says bf is likely town purely because im alive. If bf was mafia I'm a prime hit because no one else was suspecting him much
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On February 08 2016 04:17 darthfoley wrote:Marv's Palmar progression + Show Spoiler +On February 04 2016 22:34 marvellosity wrote:
jat: i don't have a particular opinion on Palmar On February 04 2016 23:00 marvellosity wrote:
oh Palmar gave a longer/prettier answer. well boo On February 05 2016 20:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 18:57 justanothertownie wrote:
Ah, misunderstood your post Koshi. Carry on.
Would have to check the meta part of NMs Palmar case but regardless I still agree with the conclusion. Maybe we should just try to lynch that lazy jackass today. Very tempting. ##unvote
##Vote Palmar*holds out hand* On February 06 2016 02:35 marvellosity wrote:okay, quick post before I go. Thoughts on the lynch: Palmar - my vote is on him, and he's a decent lynch. Actually I think his absence today is kinda non-admissable, i think as either alignment he'd show up if he could. Not totally sure though. My main issue with Palmar is that he has quite a few posts but none of them are really pushing anything forward or finding mafia. Ironically if his filter was half the size I'd be more inclined to think he was town. If he comes in later while i'm out and makes a case on me, lynch him. Just lynch him. He knows I am town (or should at least feel i am) and would never want to lynch me today, he'd only be doing it to destabilise whatever influence I have on town. And yes he'd do it even after I wrote this. He may come back and look town, which is nice. I'd also note it's not beyond mafia Palmar to afk and hope for the best when he's mafia, even if i do rather think he'd come and try do stuff. Zyrre - I wrote stuff already. But really I just want people to do this. I will make it easy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?user=Zyrrehttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/422313-newbie-mini-mafia-xlv?user=ZyrreHis filter from this game, and his towngame in the newbie. Just read the first page of the newbie game. Just do it.. I find it very, very hard to believe these 2 filters are from the same alignment. The filters are just *so* *different*. I'm not even going to do any explanation. If you can't see it, stab yourself in the face for being terrible. For him to be town I'd have to believe he's just SOOOOO overawed by this game (I do not believe this for a moment, not to this extent). I think I trust jat. tbh if I didn't think I was coming back at all before deadline I'd place my vote on Zyrre right now. But I will leave it on Palmar for now and change it later as necessary. On February 06 2016 07:09 marvellosity wrote:
I can't escape the socialising so I've not read anything. So many palmar votes and not so on Zyrre. I'm gonna vote Zyrre, he's my top % play.
Palmer could well still be mafia but the votecount made me a little nervous and I really think Zyrre is mafia. Maybe palmar can have another day?
unvote
##vote Zyrre
I'm not going to be able to read ppls replies to this really so just do what you think is best. This is what I think is best for now and that's all I have control over. I agree that Marv was not invested in the Palmar lynch and was quite wishy washy for someone who apparently has the hard reads on him. "I think his absence is non-admissible... but it could come from either alignment... not totally sure though... oh yea btw if he comes back while i'm gone and says im scum, DONT LISTEN TO HIM (even though I just said his play could come from either alignment") If his lack of play could come from either alignment, it's false to say it's non-admissible. He also says that if he thought he wasn't going to come back before the deadline, he would vote for Zyrre, but that he's keeping his vote on Palmar and change it later if necessary. Except that a few paragraphs earlier he specifically told everyone not to drink the Palmar Kool-Aid and keep your vote on him. He then jumps on the "VC is making me nervous train at #1319" (I had commented on it at #1308) and switches to Zyrre. This progression/line of reasoning throughout is suspicious to me and i'm scum reading marv Get Zyrre ML D1 is easy, while knowing it will leave Palmar in an almost impossible hole to fight out of D2 given the rapid vote swing, guaranteeing another mislynch.
This is making the rather terrific leap that palmar is town...
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Sure, we can lynch Palmar and if he flips mafia I'll rescind my suspicion 
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Terrible post darth. You somehow glossed over the explanation that palmar would know or at least think I'm town, so if he cases me its to destabilise and it's fake. This is pretty easy to follow
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Okay, and he didn't case you
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I also said objectively I thought Zyrre had the highest chance to flip mafia even while leaving my vote on palmar
Everything I've done makes sense because it comes from a town perspective so it's easy for me to explain
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On February 08 2016 04:22 darthfoley wrote:
Okay, and he didn't case you
There is still time 
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On February 08 2016 04:23 marvellosity wrote:
I also said objectively I thought Zyrre had the highest chance to flip mafia even while leaving my vote on palmar
Everything I've done makes sense because it comes from a town perspective so it's easy for me to explain
I'm curious why you didn't leave your vote on the player you thought has the highest chance of flipping scum.
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Meh why would mafia!Palmar play such a weak mafia game? He seems like a player who could be quite directive with the Town conversation as mafia D1. He's basically asking to get lynched. It just seems too lynch-baity, even if we kinda have to do it.
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And Marv my scumread on you is mostly wishful thinking so dont scumread me for it.
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On February 08 2016 04:27 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 04:23 marvellosity wrote:
I also said objectively I thought Zyrre had the highest chance to flip mafia even while leaving my vote on palmar
Everything I've done makes sense because it comes from a town perspective so it's easy for me to explain I'm curious why you didn't leave your vote on the player you thought has the highest chance of flipping scum.
Yes, exactly. Town is generally about the percentages game, and you (marv) are good enough to play objectively.
"Objectively I did the thing that was sub-optimal from Town pov and that makes me town"
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Darth I'm thinking there might be some explanation involving pressure and wagons.
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vayne, marv, palmar, x scum
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Nice I got boxers townread finally.
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On February 08 2016 04:30 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 04:27 nooniansoong wrote:On February 08 2016 04:23 marvellosity wrote:
I also said objectively I thought Zyrre had the highest chance to flip mafia even while leaving my vote on palmar
Everything I've done makes sense because it comes from a town perspective so it's easy for me to explain I'm curious why you didn't leave your vote on the player you thought has the highest chance of flipping scum. Yes, exactly. Town is generally about the percentages game, and you (marv) are good enough to play objectively. "Objectively I did the thing that was sub-optimal from Town pov and that makes me town"
It's like your not reading? I left my vote on palmar because it seemed like a cool thing to do.
I said Zyrre had the best chance of flipping mafia and I ended up voting for him.
You're new so I forgive you not knowing my and palmars history. We get on very well (I talk to him the most out of anyone on tl mafia) but we love to needle each other in game.
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On February 08 2016 04:55 boxerfred wrote:
vayne, marv, palmar, x scum
So you think I just randomly attacked 2 of my buddies in Va and palmar? Are you totally insane?
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On February 08 2016 04:11 NocturneMage wrote:This next post is mainly for Rels and disformation regarding Moosy Doosy - Day 1 - read pages 39 through 41Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
(1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town.
(2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred. Show nested quote +On February 05 2016 14:22 NocturneMage wrote:On February 05 2016 14:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
(1) You leap into game using convoluted af reasoning to explain shizz which is NM style of play. But tone read seems genuine which means ur trying to solve game. So town.
(2) At this point, there is a small group of people I don't try to read due to heavy bias. One of them is Damdred. Seeing as ritoky picked disformation and Rels as townreads, I'm going to ask you this next question. Both disformation and Rels have both scumread me at points for not being able to follow my train of thought. What does this make you think of them?
Night 1/Day 2Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 02:38 MoosyDoosy wrote:
There were some things about ritoky that ticked in my mind. I think it was concerning disfo.
mMmmm....I'm also conflicted on Rels which is never ever a good thing. Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows.
ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting. Show nested quote +On February 07 2016 03:02 NocturneMage wrote:On February 07 2016 02:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Rels - I have a soul read situation with him that he knows as well. Every time in the past that I've been wary of him he's turned out to be Mafia. Every time I town read him immediately, he has been town. It has to do with how he sets himself up in the game. His opening made me wary. But I do agree with a lot of what he's been saying which is shit for me because logic > feelings from my experience in Mafia. Rels, I'm going to keep off of you for now, but that's on the basis you keep shitting townie rainbows.
ritoky & disfo - Bear with me, things are foggy because I read quickly to catch up and play D2. There was a situation where ritoky pushed disfo and disfo made a shit case. I think NM and/or Palmar was implicated somewhere which should be interesting. Well here's the thing, for me for Rels - a key scum tell is him taking words/quotes/etc out of context. When he was pushing me day 1, he didn't see me logically and in most of my games I am able to get my arguments out in a logical manner. Here he didn't understand my early push on VA, quite frankly, no one did, and I saw his interactions with other people, and I didn't see any of those scum tells that makes me wary. Town Rels has a cleaner game IMO from what I see. as for the ritoky/disformation I cannot see how what you are saying makes EITHER of those two mafia. Disformation makes a shit case because (a) he cannot articulate himself well (b) he's confirmation biasing (which JAT basically confirmed near end of cycle) (c) he's mafia. Point is, disformation is not entirely scummy, and neither is ritoky for pushing in in that direction. And regardless of whom is implicated, me, Palmar, etc, I can't see how that winds back up at ritoky. Like this really isn't clear to me. At best you have pre-flip read here. Can either of you - or anyone else if you wish - comment on these reads by MoosyDoosy here? Something feels off but I can't put my finger on it. His criteria for reading me is completely wrong, whether it's contrived is 50/50. I've only played with him twice. The thing with my questioning on day 1 if you read through page 42 I think is he eventually bailed when I talked to him as to why he was scumreading ritoky. It felt weird and "it's Day 1" doesn't cut it. Just answer the question and then leave. Rels especially his read on you, and especially how you scumread me for not being logical day 1 versus him townreading me day 1 for being convoluted. It's just weird. Also I told him there's no way his read circles back to ritoky as mafia. Also his following Day 2 was telling me to spit out fire - I'm assuming reads - but looking through his filter I think if anyone needs to spit out reads, I think it's him, quite frankly. He has marv/DF as town d1 and concerns with Rels. That's it.
hmmm...
well as I said earlier you are imo a very logical and reason based player to me. So him saying that using big wordy logical arguments, but giving him a town feel with those things, is not very odd for me. Especially if he has not thaaat much experience with you. Sounds more like a "i am not fan of those big complicated wordy things, but your tone is town, so imma TR you". Like does he necessarily need to be able to understand your points to give your a TR for your tone? Seems something MD would do.
His soul read claim on Rels is pretty odd especially since he seems a bit waffly on Rels. Would like for Rels to comment on this too.
Otherwise he imo has a scum read on: kush, Palmar and boxer and TR on: NM, marv and darthfoley.
Yeah, most of them don't come with much reasoning, but those are more reads than other ppl (e.g. darth, VA, Onegu, marv, chez, palmar, ...) have.
Super not sure on MD's alignment though. Can see him play this way as either alignment. Leaning town for at least having a bunch of reads out... on the other hand MD somewhat trying seems to be more scum indicative usually...
btw:
Point is, disformation is not entirely scummy, and neither is ritoky for pushing in in that direction. And regardless of whom is implicated, me, Palmar, etc, I can't see how that winds back up at ritoky.
that was why I was asking about whether you scum read me or not. Cause "not entirely" implies that I am somewhat scummy at the very least.
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On February 08 2016 04:28 darthfoley wrote:
Meh why would mafia!Palmar play such a weak mafia game? He seems like a player who could be quite directive with the Town conversation as mafia D1. He's basically asking to get lynched. It just seems too lynch-baity, even if we kinda have to do it.
Why would town!Palmar play such a weak town game? He nearly wrecked PYP and got like 7/8 scummers that game.
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On February 08 2016 05:09 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 04:28 darthfoley wrote:
Meh why would mafia!Palmar play such a weak mafia game? He seems like a player who could be quite directive with the Town conversation as mafia D1. He's basically asking to get lynched. It just seems too lynch-baity, even if we kinda have to do it. Why would town!Palmar play such a weak town game? He nearly wrecked PYP and got like 7/8 scummers that game.
indeed. At this point in time he is just scum.
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EPT
