The rules for this game are drawn from BH's model OP here: (link). Read them.
Supplemental Rules
In addition to the rules outlined in the Model OP, there are a couple changes for this game.
1. Night Length: Nights will last 24 hours, and you may speak at night. 2. Day Length: Each day lasts 48 hours. 3. Lynch Type: At the end of the day, the player with the most votes on him or her is lynched. In the event of a tie, the person who was most recently ahead in votes is lynched. Voting is done in the voting thread: -soon- 4. Activity: It is required you make at least 2 posts per day+night cycle (72 hours), and ALSO meet the arbitrary activity requirement that exists entirely in my mind. Voting is mandatory. 5. Deadline: The Lynch Deadline will be at 00:00 GMT (+00:00), 6. Behavior: I will not be strict on behavior, but I will always try to warn you if you cross the line.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Special thanks to myself for going over this setup with me, and to myself, on the balance approval team, for testing this setup for balance. Also thanks to Probulous since I stole this OP from him and modified it to my nefarious needs. Also also thanks to Palmar for helping me with other versions of this setup.
If you have not read all the rules, go and do so. I might give you candy.
I am open to questions any time. If something doesn't make sense, please ask.
Potential setups One of these setups will be chosen at random at the start of the game. A) Cop land. Town - 1 Vigilante, 1 Cop Mafia - 1 Roleblocker, and in the first 24 hours of the game, Mafia may choose any player in the game. If that player is town, the cop will check them as mafia. If that player is mafia, the cop checks them as town. The alignment change is not revealed upon death.
B) Can't shoot from jail, bro. Town - 1 Vigilante, 1 Jailkeeper Mafia - 1 Roleblocker, Rolecop
C) How many MLes until LYLO? Town - 1 Vigilante, 1 Veteran Mafia - 1 Roleblocker, roleblocking the vigilante when the vigilante shoots means the vigilante loses their shot.
Order of night actions: Mafia RB-->Town JK-->Mafia RC-->Town Cop-->Mafia KP-->Vigilante KP
This is a 13 player Normal game. There will be 3 mafia-aligned players and 10 town-aligned players. There will be no alignment changing mechanics. Role and Alignment will be revealed on all flips. Mafia has 1 KP which is delivered. If there is only one mafia player left, the KP is factional. People are not notified of anything unless required.
Town
Vanilla Town:You are a VT. Find and destroy the mafia.
1-shot Vigilante:Once per game, at night, you can fire a bullet to deal 1 kp to a target. If you are roleblocked (unless setup C is in effect), or your target dies before you can shoot him, you get your bullet back.
Jailkeeper:Each night, you can jail a person, which roleblocks them and protects from one KP. You may not jail yourself. If you jail one town player two nights in a row and he doesn't get shot on either night, that player dies in your jail cell.
Veteran:You have an extra night life. If you are RBed, that night life is suppressed during the RB.
Cop:Each night, you may target a player and learn their alignment.
Town Win Condition - The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game or nothing can prevent that from happening.
Mafia
Mafia Win Condition: The mafia wins when they outnumber or equal the remaining townies or nothing can prevent that from happening. Each night, mafia must use 1 kp. KP is factional.
Mafia Goon:You are a goon with no powers.
Mafia Roleblocker: You are a roleblocker. Each night, you may target a player and roleblock them.
Mafia Rolecop: You are a Rolecop. Each night, you may target a player and learn their role.
Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
I applaud the nature of the players of this game. There is no better way to stick it to the man (Arseholetanis shit) than by boycotting the game with silence. I should add you all to my list for being the bravest recruits I ever did see.
Let me tell you a story about something I encountered yesterday.
This is a story about a man and his pride.
Pride in this sense is being used for its negative meaning. Commonly pride can be used to refer to a sense of satisfaction or attachment to something, but not in this case. Rather we are using it in the sense of an inflated sense of self.
The serious thing about pride is that it can cause someone to make irrational decisions or decisions that have much larger consequences out of a misplaced sense of the situation.
This is where yesterday falls flat. As Aristotle taught us, pride can be both a virtue and a vice. As such marv rolled an alignment that he felt uncomfortable playing as, and rather than acquiesce to the powers at be he stood up for what he believed was right and what he had pride for: his town play. He refused to be forced to bend to the whims of an RNG machine for the amusement of others.
Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
ritoky is mafia
Ritoky's play doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. He seems to be very disinterested in the game, instead of enjoying it, while implying that he's a bit involved. He's very willing to engage in banter, and answers questions about the game, but he doesn't do anything at all to further the game. + Show Spoiler [examples] +
On January 15 2016 09:18 ritoky wrote: a former oregon coach is now the coach of the dumpster fire 49ers; finally i can consolihate. great day.
He completely ignored all of the thread at the time. I would have expected him as town to directly address Damdred.
On January 15 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: People having 0 respect for a game going on basically. Hf will swap but if you aren't oh the players list just not right.
Anyway rit what do you think of say hf? More than likely town?
On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him.
On January 15 2016 11:02 ritoky wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encountered yesterday.
This is a story about a man and his pride.
Pride in this sense is being used for its negative meaning. Commonly pride can be used to refer to a sense of satisfaction or attachment to something, but not in this case. Rather we are using it in the sense of an inflated sense of self.
The serious thing about pride is that it can cause someone to make irrational decisions or decisions that have much larger consequences out of a misplaced sense of the situation.
This is where yesterday falls flat. As Aristotle taught us, pride can be both a virtue and a vice. As such marv rolled an alignment that he felt uncomfortable playing as, and rather than acquiesce to the powers at be he stood up for what he believed was right and what he had pride for: his town play. He refused to be forced to bend to the whims of an RNG machine for the amusement of others.
The hosts punished marv for being virtuous.
#FreeMarv
On January 15 2016 11:04 ritoky wrote: Fellow believers, support me in:
The Free Virtuous Marv Petition: 1. ritoky
If you too feel that men and women should not be punished for being virtuous reach out to me for support.
Mocking Holyflare doesn't do anything to move the game forward, and isn't really funny, either. Ritoky doesn't try to actually get involved or talk to anyone.
The clincher is this post:
On January 15 2016 09:57 ritoky wrote: wat the fuck is going on?
Which indicates a surprise of the state of the game. Ritoky doesn't seem to be enjoying the game, as his posts feel very uninspired and flat. Yet he doesn't do anything to further the game. This post:
On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him.
suggests that ritoky is thinking about reads this game, but doesn't follow Damdred's lead to get the game started at all.
On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
Are you not planning on continuing the game?
what's the point when Holyflare has basically confirmed his alignment?
On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
Are you not planning on continuing the game?
what's the point when Holyflare has basically confirmed his alignment?
Has he? I really wouldn't say that.
Holyflare is more than willing to make ridiculous lies as mafia.
On January 15 2016 13:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah so like he is telling the truth and he is town --> in which case the game is invalid.
Or he is mafia --> in which case we should 100% lynch him.
Soooo... in any way, the game is invalid.
I guess I have enough faith in humanity to think that Holyflare will allow the game to proceed normally and participate in an acceptable manner (even if not in his normal fashion).
Although i would be perfectly willing to play the game 9vs3 and remove HF. But then again now i think you, Trfel, are scum because of your argument on HF and the lack of thinking on the matter and that is out of game WIFOM case and that's also invalid.
On January 15 2016 13:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Although i would be perfectly willing to play the game 9vs3 and remove HF. But then again now i think you, Trfel, are scum because of your argument on HF and the lack of thinking on the matter and that is out of game WIFOM case and that's also invalid.
It only shows that out-of-game WIFOM isn't always correct.
I'm more than happy to disprove you in time, tunnel me all you want.
In other words i think you are trying to make something out of nothing because... because of Holyflare the whole first page of this game is nothing and can't possibly be alignment indicative.
On January 15 2016 13:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: In other words i think you are trying to make something out of nothing because... because of Holyflare the whole first page of this game is nothing and can't possibly be alignment indicative.
And you think that this is mafia motivated because?
cuz it kinda feels like you showed up to your restaurant reservation for your date only to get a call from your girl 15 minutes after you were supposed to meet asking if you can just do it tomorrow instead.
I don't know about Holey. Sure seemed willing to start talking play after wanting to /out. Meh. Assuming you'd die early so it's ok to sign up is awful regardless, and not alignment indicative, but ugh. Gross. I'm buzzed.
Also, Trifle, while I appreciate the townread, your reasoning is bleh. I was purposefully misdoing people's names last round as well, and that is just because it amuses me. I wasn't trying to antagonize Holey, and when I realized he was actually talking about quitting, I backed off because I didn't want anyone to quit.
On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
Are you not planning on continuing the game?
what's the point when Holyflare has basically confirmed his alignment?
This post basically says you're scum. The initial reaction is "HF is town." But any reasonably player especially you, who knows HF will do anything and everything alignment regardless, should realize that HF is completely NLA. The funny thing is that as I was thinking about it more, the more HF posts about that shit the more I think he's mafia. He has some actual goal as town even when he's bitching.
But Trfel is like really likely to be scum and you tend to react to your scummates slightly differently.
On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
Are you not planning on continuing the game?
what's the point when Holyflare has basically confirmed his alignment?
This post basically says you're scum. The initial reaction is "HF is town." But any reasonably player especially you, who knows HF will do anything and everything alignment regardless, should realize that HF is completely NLA. The funny thing is that as I was thinking about it more, the more HF posts about that shit the more I think he's mafia. He has some actual goal as town even when he's bitching.
But Trfel is like really likely to be scum and you tend to react to your scummates slightly differently.
no it doesn't.
If you think HF would lie about stuff and relate it to MOD ACTIONS you can get lynched too....
Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
Yeh you're 100% mafia then. The first post I was annoyed and then saw no reactions and made it into a plan. Quite evident by my posts and my vote on damdred but you're not even looking into that.
On January 15 2016 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: So now i am supposed to think you, as town, were making a plan AND you were also annoyed when you made the couple of your first posts?
I tend to think people post whatever comes to their mind OR if they are making a plan they have a clear head. So i am going to assume you are lying.
On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start... I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all.
Are you not planning on continuing the game?
what's the point when Holyflare has basically confirmed his alignment?
This post basically says you're scum. The initial reaction is "HF is town." But any reasonably player especially you, who knows HF will do anything and everything alignment regardless, should realize that HF is completely NLA. The funny thing is that as I was thinking about it more, the more HF posts about that shit the more I think he's mafia. He has some actual goal as town even when he's bitching.
But Trfel is like really likely to be scum and you tend to react to your scummates slightly differently.
no it doesn't.
If you think HF would lie about stuff and relate it to MOD ACTIONS you can get lynched too....
I mean you can't possibly think what you do. It's ridiculous lapse in your OWN logic and only between like 2 posts!
Not voted (9): VisceraEyes, Ace, ritoky, Cephiro, geript, DoYouHas, AlotSomuch, Damdred, NocturneMage Currently, Holyflare is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 17 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread.
Hi guys! I just got back to the thread and haven't read a word! I'm still town though, I did catch that. Has someone claimed scum or otherwise damned themselves to the noose yet?
Let me elaborate properly: These are your first two posts:
On January 15 2016 09:08 Holyflare wrote: /out
On January 15 2016 09:10 Holyflare wrote: maybe you shouldn't start new games before getting the permission from the people you're putting in them
#protipsforhosting
I believe you that you were annoyed. I do not question that for a second. However when you were writing this, i also believe you are in full intention of not playing this game, and you are not lying. That is what your posts literally say here.
Now obviously you have changed your mind after that. I don't know where, and i don't care. Might be at the next post, might be after, it is not relevant. What is relevant is the following:
On January 15 2016 16:54 Holyflare wrote: Basically I did what geript said and elongated the whine to fulfill my dastardly plan of gathering information. Also because I was a tad annoyed.
Will be around for like 30 mins while I travel so this is your chance to talk to me.
I can't believe this post is the full truth. Because your first two posts are a dick move. I assume you realize that. Now in case you wanted to ACTUALLY play properly, at that point, i assume you would have made post like "i am fucking annoyed because i wasn't asked if i want to play in the re-roll, but whatever.. i will try to play. fuck you all."
Instead of saying this you continued with the host bashing. Which brings me to the following conclusion: 1) If you are town you made a dick move, and you are now lying, because if you were not lying about your motives you would be a confirmed town based on the third post you made. 2) You are mafia.
Now i don't think you would make such a dick move, and funnily enough, if you wanted to make yourself look more townie to me, you would have to accept you were lying at some point, and it again -- points towards you being mafia... So if you are town you should have cleared up the issue BEFORE now, clearly, BEFORE people like me come to conclusion that you want to quit the game. Like really, i thought that was 100% the case, ritoky seemed to think that, Ace probably too, some people from the obs QT -- maybe even more people from the obs QT since why the fuck otherwise are there people who are not in the game posting in the thread?!?! Hell i believe even the HOSTS thought that was the case since apparently Artanis felt the need to CLARIFY in thread the game is still ongoing....
So... If you are town the game is invalid because to prove you are town you would need to prove you were lying, which would make you mafia. You can argue that i am scum and doing whatever you decide you want to say but my opinion here is not going to change since the ONLY way the game is not invalid in my opinion is if you are scum.
On January 15 2016 21:28 VisceraEyes wrote: OMG is it just me or was Holyflare just trying really really hard to be funny and rayn is being ridiculous about it?
seems like even the obs qt and hosts were "being ridiculous about it" if that is the case...
I don't feel the need to explain this any further to anyone. I also don't feel the need to explain myself any further to anyone in case someone thinks i am mafia for this.
I just don't care. So don't ask me anything about this, i said all i had to say.
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
ritoky is mafia
Ritoky's play doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. He seems to be very disinterested in the game, instead of enjoying it, while implying that he's a bit involved. He's very willing to engage in banter, and answers questions about the game, but he doesn't do anything at all to further the game. + Show Spoiler [examples] +
On January 15 2016 09:18 ritoky wrote: a former oregon coach is now the coach of the dumpster fire 49ers; finally i can consolihate. great day.
He completely ignored all of the thread at the time. I would have expected him as town to directly address Damdred.
On January 15 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: People having 0 respect for a game going on basically. Hf will swap but if you aren't oh the players list just not right.
Anyway rit what do you think of say hf? More than likely town?
On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him.
On January 15 2016 11:02 ritoky wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encountered yesterday.
This is a story about a man and his pride.
Pride in this sense is being used for its negative meaning. Commonly pride can be used to refer to a sense of satisfaction or attachment to something, but not in this case. Rather we are using it in the sense of an inflated sense of self.
The serious thing about pride is that it can cause someone to make irrational decisions or decisions that have much larger consequences out of a misplaced sense of the situation.
This is where yesterday falls flat. As Aristotle taught us, pride can be both a virtue and a vice. As such marv rolled an alignment that he felt uncomfortable playing as, and rather than acquiesce to the powers at be he stood up for what he believed was right and what he had pride for: his town play. He refused to be forced to bend to the whims of an RNG machine for the amusement of others.
The hosts punished marv for being virtuous.
#FreeMarv
On January 15 2016 11:04 ritoky wrote: Fellow believers, support me in:
The Free Virtuous Marv Petition: 1. ritoky
If you too feel that men and women should not be punished for being virtuous reach out to me for support.
Mocking Holyflare doesn't do anything to move the game forward, and isn't really funny, either. Ritoky doesn't try to actually get involved or talk to anyone.
On January 15 2016 09:57 ritoky wrote: wat the fuck is going on?
Which indicates a surprise of the state of the game. Ritoky doesn't seem to be enjoying the game, as his posts feel very uninspired and flat. Yet he doesn't do anything to further the game. This post:
On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him.
suggests that ritoky is thinking about reads this game, but doesn't follow Damdred's lead to get the game started at all.
##vote ritoky
There is literally no way that someone believes he found mafia, but is still so unexcited about it that he puts some random shitty townread first in the post.
Um no rayn you're dumb. I can tell you my plan whenever I feel like it, I don't have to do it in some guidelines that you lay out, especially when I was asleep and it was impossible.
This game is also dumb because artanis confirmed me as town so do what you want with that info. If I was mafia there would be no confusion and it just looks like a mafia rage quit tactic. Now I'm confirmed town.
Deal with it bro. You need to stop living in black and white details because I definitely haven't lied once this game.
On January 15 2016 22:37 Palmar wrote: There is literally no way that someone believes he found mafia, but is still so unexcited about it that he puts some random shitty townread first in the post.
On January 15 2016 22:48 Holyflare wrote: Um no rayn you're dumb. I can tell you my plan whenever I feel like it, I don't have to do it in some guidelines that you lay out, especially when I was asleep and it was impossible.
This game is also dumb because artanis confirmed me as town so do what you want with that info. If I was mafia there would be no confusion and it just looks like a mafia rage quit tactic. Now I'm confirmed town.
Deal with it bro. You need to stop living in black and white details because I definitely haven't lied once this game.
On January 15 2016 14:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: umm.. because you call ritoky mafia for things that doesn't make him mafia?
If you were mafia and you saw absolutely nothing happening in the thread, what would you do?
If you were town and you saw absolutely nothing happening in the thread, what would you do?
On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
Holyflare, if you didn't like ritoky and then I scumread ritoky, why was my post ridiculous?
Also, please explain what you mean by the last sentence? Because that's what I attempted to say (without the last part).
On January 15 2016 16:04 AlotSomuch wrote: I don't know about Holey. Sure seemed willing to start talking play after wanting to /out. Meh. Assuming you'd die early so it's ok to sign up is awful regardless, and not alignment indicative, but ugh. Gross. I'm buzzed.
Please explain how Holyflare showed that he was willing to start talking play?
After looking at it again sober, Rayn is town. I see no rayn-flaw in his rayn-logic. Yet all the same, I'm starting to think Holeyflair is still probably town, specifically the karmic counterpart to Marvellin of last round. Kind of holding the game hostage and not wanting to play because he expected to be killed early and doesn't want to go an extra 24 hours into a game he signed up for. SHAME. SHAME. Also, I think Edumb1892 actually quit? He hasn't been back since his single "/out" post.
Right now I can see sixlover and trifle as scum here. Sixlover's pointless posting to appear relevant without saying anything in a way that offends me more than others. Trifle's gross post. maybe throw Getripped in there too, though he could just be wrong on Rayn. But that is initial scum team prediction. Of those I dislike Trifle's post the most, so current vote goes on Trifle. ##VOTE TRIFLE
I'm not sure what I meant about holey there trifle. Rayn, the one you call "Sicklucker", who on closer observation is an observer posting in the thread, which I'm not used to.
On January 15 2016 16:04 AlotSomuch wrote: I don't know about Holey. Sure seemed willing to start talking play after wanting to /out. Meh. Assuming you'd die early so it's ok to sign up is awful regardless, and not alignment indicative, but ugh. Gross. I'm buzzed.
Bold emphasis mine.
Please explain how you reach the conclusion in this sentence?
Trifle, I just said I'm not sure what I meant there. I think I attributed someone's else's actual game related post to him. And yes, as I said, I'm not used to observers posting in a game. We havne't heard from people so I assumed they were on the new playerlist.
You first say that because I misspelled holeyflairs name, I'm probably town because why would mafia try to antagonize him? But I was misspelling everyone's name last game as well. Then when Ritokey is mocking Holeyflair's posts about the mods raping him and consent and such, you ignore what you said made me town and said it made Ritokey scum. That bugged me. The "what the fuck is going" on post was about 2 more people /out'ing if I remember right, which is an appropriate response the game seeming to be ending before it started...again.
On January 16 2016 01:40 AlotSomuch wrote: You first say that because I misspelled holeyflairs name, I'm probably town because why would mafia try to antagonize him? But I was misspelling everyone's name last game as well. Then when Ritokey is mocking Holeyflair's posts about the mods raping him and consent and such, you ignore what you said made me town and said it made Ritokey scum. That bugged me. The "what the fuck is going" on post was about 2 more people /out'ing if I remember right, which is an appropriate response the game seeming to be ending before it started...again.
That read makes sense. Thanks for answering my question.
@Trfel I like Palmar's reason for thinking you're mafia. I agree, if you were really suspicious of ritoky, that would be what the post is about. There should be no reason to call someone else town in that same post, and certainly not BEFORE scumread given that there was a vote in the post. The whole thing just feels disingenuous and contrived.
So let's assume for now that ritoky is never getting lynched today. Let's further assume that you could only kill one of three people, and those three people are the MOST active people in the game so far. Which one would you lynch and why?
There's an outside chance that he doesn't actually find ritoky suspicious as town and is just trying to get the thread moving in a productive direction, but who wants to consider town motivations when we're looking for MAFIA?!?!?!?!?
On January 16 2016 01:57 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Trfel
So let's assume for now that ritoky is never getting lynched today. Let's further assume that you could only kill one of three people, and those three people are the MOST active people in the game so far. Which one would you lynch and why?
I don't know.
Raynpelikoneet, how confident are you in your scumread of Holyflare?
On January 15 2016 09:45 Holyflare wrote: Well I'm town but now have 0 time so next time pm me that a new game was gonna start before rolling me into it!
ty, gg no re
##vote damdred
^ free mafia
On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
On January 15 2016 17:29 Holyflare wrote: Yeh you're 100% mafia then. The first post I was annoyed and then saw no reactions and made it into a plan. Quite evident by my posts and my vote on damdred but you're not even looking into that.
(to raynpelikoneet)
On January 15 2016 17:41 Holyflare wrote: I mean thinking about it I don't actually dislike trfel all that much anymore. Rayn has easily become top mafioso.
It doesn't feel like Holyflare is interested in finding mafia. He seems to be portraying an attitude that is whatever is best for him at the moment, which feels like more playing to survive instead of genuine emotions.
On January 15 2016 22:48 Holyflare wrote: Um no rayn you're dumb. I can tell you my plan whenever I feel like it, I don't have to do it in some guidelines that you lay out, especially when I was asleep and it was impossible.
This game is also dumb because artanis confirmed me as town so do what you want with that info. If I was mafia there would be no confusion and it just looks like a mafia rage quit tactic. Now I'm confirmed town.
Deal with it bro. You need to stop living in black and white details because I definitely haven't lied once this game.
This post is a key example of it. Holyflare is scumreading raynpelikoneet, but instead of caring that he caught mafia, he's telling raynpelikoneet why his scumhunting approach as a whole is incorrect.
On January 16 2016 02:50 Holyflare wrote: You don't need to make a fake case to lynch me, just lynch me.
On a phone, so I can't really get quotes, but...
Holyflare, you said that you were suspicious of ritoky, and then said that my scumread of ritoky was garbage. Why were you suspicious of ritoky, and why was my read garbage?
No trfel. Lynch me. There's no reconsidering now, you're committed. If you don't lynch me today and save me for a mislynch later in the game you just become obvious mafia. Take your free opportunity.
Alright, to start, do not like that Trfel post (#51) at all. Read on ritoky - everything is banter, so how you get disinterest given the timing relative to the start...that's meh at best. Final two questions, you could have just asked to clarify, I know I would if I see someone post "I nothing him". That's not ever proper English.
The argument about addressing Damdred - forget about it, nothing to even be addressed because what Damdred said was truly NAI.
the rayn breakdown makes sense, I know he is someone that thinks logically, sometimes a bit linearly, but there's no mafia motivation I can see in his posting. He has nothing to hide. Holyflare could very well be thinking along different lines here. He tried to draw a reaction, it was off an NAI post, but it doesn't exclusively make him mafia.
Trfel's post on lack of emotions, plus the post with six questions does look fairly contrived.
man that re-roll really has fucked me. dunno what it is about it. i was in the mood, then it has just jarred me out of the mood. am struggling to get into this game and i thought stepping away and sleeping would change it but it hasn't.
On January 16 2016 06:10 geript wrote: I'm pretty sure that ASM is mafia too. His post made like 0 sense whatsoever.
First post was under the influence, rest of filter seemed alright to me aside from the ignorance of who was in the game and who wasn't but that's not what I would consider mafia indicative. Break it down further?
A lot is a mixed bag I feel part of hid filter sounds towny and a few posts I absolutely despise. His post about not deserving a tr from trfel might fit into the last category, either he's super self aware or,mafia misgivings most town player a be like fuck yeah either your scum confirming me or I'm a beacon of town.
Trfel I I can't read but my initial gut says town.
On January 16 2016 01:21 AlotSomuch wrote: After looking at it again sober, Rayn is town. I see no rayn-flaw in his rayn-logic. Yet all the same, I'm starting to think Holeyflair is still probably town, specifically the karmic counterpart to Marvellin of last round. Kind of holding the game hostage and not wanting to play because he expected to be killed early and doesn't want to go an extra 24 hours into a game he signed up for. SHAME. SHAME. Also, I think Edumb1892 actually quit? He hasn't been back since his single "/out" post.
Right now I can see sixlover and trifle as scum here. Sixlover's pointless posting to appear relevant without saying anything in a way that offends me more than others. Trifle's gross post. maybe throw Getripped in there too, though he could just be wrong on Rayn. But that is initial scum team prediction. Of those I dislike Trifle's post the most, so current vote goes on Trifle. ##VOTE TRIFLE
Basically, throwing out random reads without any connection to the thread. Like the Rayn read is really bad (rayn-logic is NAI). Shitty HF townread. The only actual thing close to any sort of logic is the Sicklucker is based on This. Add to that SL isn't even on the player list.
On top of that, the posts of his are basically completely useless drivel.
Is that shitty HF townread scummy when you consider that ASM isn't familiar with the players here (I hear he's new to this forum, correct?)
I am interpreting his sentence on Holyflare to be that he's acting similar to how he read marv last game.
I also don't think the reads are random, rayn has been active and engaged and as I stated before I read his posts carefully and couldn't see mafia motivation in them. If you think ASM is deliberately ignoring mafia motivations in rayn's post then that's an entirely different argument with a different breakdown.
On January 16 2016 06:43 NocturneMage wrote: Is that shitty HF townread scummy when you consider that ASM isn't familiar with the players here (I hear he's new to this forum, correct?)
On January 16 2016 06:56 Holyflare wrote: Nm can you explain what about rayn's logic makes any sense whatsoever? It's not logic at all. He didn't even convince me I was mafia.
I mean I genuinely read rayn's case and I come out saying, "What the fuck does that even mean?" 10/10 times. I even convinced myself I was mafia and reread it and came to the same conclusion.
I'm pretty confident of my scumread of Holyflare. I also think that ritoky could be mafia. Yeah, my reads changed a lot, didn't they.
@NocturneMage: Why do you think that Holyflare is town?
@geript: I felt that AlotSomuch's read here:
On January 16 2016 01:40 AlotSomuch wrote: You first say that because I misspelled holeyflairs name, I'm probably town because why would mafia try to antagonize him? But I was misspelling everyone's name last game as well. Then when Ritokey is mocking Holeyflair's posts about the mods raping him and consent and such, you ignore what you said made me town and said it made Ritokey scum. That bugged me. The "what the fuck is going" on post was about 2 more people /out'ing if I remember right, which is an appropriate response the game seeming to be ending before it started...again.
shows some critical thinking. Do you disagree?
Next job, trying to figure out how explain my Holyflare read.
If anyone wants to talk to me, now would be great? I'd like to head out soon, but this game is much more enjoyable when like, actually interacting with people?
On January 16 2016 10:31 Damdred wrote: Trfel do you think geript is town?
I don't have a very good read on him right now. He does feel involved in the game and he's looking into different things, which makes me feel like he is town, but his scumread on AlotSomuch doesn't feel quite right to me yet (pending his answer to my question above), and because I'm not sure how he is reading into drunk posts (though I don't have much experience with drunkenness, so perhaps they're more useful than I thought?).
Holyflare is mafia because his posting has no direction. It's not focused, it's not trying to find mafia. Holyflare's posting is primarily motivated by survival instead of solving the game.
Holyflare said that he didn't like ritoky's posts, and then dropped it. Then he said that Damdred was mafia for not interacting with him, and then dropped that as well. No explanation either time. Then he said that I (Trfel) was mafia for making a bad post. Then he said that raynpelikoneet was mafia for a logical flaw.
The important part is how Holyflare goes about these progressions. He doesn't seem to care about his scumreads at all (throwing them away like candy wrappers), he's not encouraging people to lynch his scumreads. His argument with raynpelikoneet seems more focused on trying to argue and make himself look good, rather than getting raynpelikoneet lynched.
Examples and further explanations can be provided if necessary. Holyflare, I'd really, really appreciate an answer, to this and also why you were suspicious of ritoky early on?
On January 16 2016 10:37 Damdred wrote: Just depends I think.
What about nm and rayn?
I'm a bit suspicious of NocturneMage, I feel like his posts are very conforming and don't progress the thread at all.
Raynpelikoneet feels like town. His posting feels more genuine and directional, and it feels like he actually cares about the game. The way he approached his Holyflare townread felt very towny to me (not necessarily what he said, but the post right after it. Raynpelikoneet has been very influential in the game, in contrast to some of the other active posters; he's actually making stuff happen, which I don't think scum would want to do here.
Im back. Voting ends tomorrow right? Besides Holyflare is mafia what else should I be aware of? rayne is still sane right? VE hasn't done any wild gambit yet? Palmer still doing town stuff (allegedly!)?
On January 16 2016 10:44 Ace wrote: Im back. Voting ends tomorrow right? Besides Holyflare is mafia what else should I be aware of? rayne is still sane right? VE hasn't done any wild gambit yet? Palmer still doing town stuff (allegedly!)?
Well, I'm heading out now. I realize that I'm probably not going to be able to directly ask people tomorrow, so I'd really, really, really appreciate some help with my Holyflare read. I realize that my read accuracy (especially Day 1-2) isn't very good, so while I feel that this is a strong read, I'd appreciate it if people would show me holes (if there are any).
Not voted (7): VisceraEyes, Ace, ritoky, Cephiro, geript, DoYouHas, Damdred Currently, Holyflare is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 17 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread.
On January 16 2016 16:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know why you are since he is calling Trfel mafia for the same reasons you are.
Most everyone is calling Trfel scum for the same awful post. You. Me. Palmar. Ace maybe too. Other people's scum reads are relatively irrelevant in this case.
On January 16 2016 16:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know why you are since he is calling Trfel mafia for the same reasons you are.
Most everyone is calling Trfel scum for the same awful post. You. Me. Palmar. Ace maybe too. Other people's scum reads are relatively irrelevant in this case.
I am sot sure where you get the idea that Ace thinks Trfel is mafia? Maybe you should quote his posts where he implies so.
On January 16 2016 16:28 geript wrote: He's like 90% a smurf not new. In that regard his posts are really bad.
So your thought process is i would either ask (1) a newbie to play in an invite game or i would (2) be fine with someone (i would know) to SMURFING in an invite game (which would give myself an advantage in comparison to other players). Seriously geript, those are the options you are mulling over? It "just didn't come to your mind" that maybe he could possibly from let's say Vendetta Strada? It "just didn't come to your mind" that you could probably ask ME who that guy is? I find this hard to believe geript, especially since i have clearly stated who Alot is before the game and you have even played with him before..
Maybe you should start using your brain a bit in case you happen to be town, which i also find quite hard to believe rn.
On January 16 2016 16:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know why you are since he is calling Trfel mafia for the same reasons you are.
Most everyone is calling Trfel scum for the same awful post. You. Me. Palmar. Ace maybe too. Other people's scum reads are relatively irrelevant in this case.
Also this doesn't answer my question in any way. I don't understand why "other people's scumreads are irrelevant in this case". The fact is Alot is calling your top scumread scum for the same reasons you are calling him (Trfel) scum and you are trying to say the logical conclusion is in your opinion that Alot is scum too. It doesn't make any sense.
Idc if he's from here or not. His posts in general are bad. Really bad. Idc if he 'picked up' on Trfel even if it is for the same reasons. Most everyone has. That read is irrelevant. Look at everything else.
On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
In relation to what was happening. Get with it Rayn.
On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
In relation to what was happening. Get with it Rayn.
And a bit later Holyflare says Trfel looks much better now since raynpelikoneet is mafia. He even claims later on that he hasn't lied a single time in this game so if that is true (which you seem to think since you think he is town) then it should also be true for you Holyflare thinks Trfel is not mafia.
When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
And you think I as mafia wouldn't want to push my reads?
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
Basically it's nai because the same argument could be made either way tbh.
Could hf do it as scum? Yes. Could he do it as tpwn? Possibly more 're than likely
Hf to my knowledge likes to play as scum and town so yeah
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
And you think I as mafia wouldn't want to push my reads?
I'm not sure. You're known for your extremely aggressive play as mafia. However, it feels like not pushing your reads makes more sense from mafia than from town to me right now.
If there's something I'm not understanding, please enlighten me. I'm not good at mafia, but I'm trying to figure things out, and it would be great if you helped me here.
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
Basically it's nai because the same argument could be made either way tbh.
Could hf do it as scum? Yes. Could he do it as tpwn? Possibly more 're than likely
Hf to my knowledge likes to play as scum and town so yeah
No I hate playing as mafia I just have a godlike reputation to uphold.
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
And you think I as mafia wouldn't want to push my reads?
I'm not sure. You're known for your extremely aggressive play as mafia. However, it feels like not pushing your reads makes more sense from mafia than from town to me right now.
If there's something I'm not understanding, please enlighten me. I'm not good at mafia, but I'm trying to figure things out, and it would be great if you helped me here.
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
Basically it's nai because the same argument could be made either way tbh.
Could hf do it as scum? Yes. Could he do it as tpwn? Possibly more 're than likely
Hf to my knowledge likes to play as scum and town so yeah
Sorry, here's my thought process, where do you disagree?
1. Holyflare isn't pushing his reads 2. If town doesn't push their reads, then they are not trying to win the game / disinterested in the game 3. If scum doesn't push their reads, this doesn't necessarily matter because their goal is to survive (thus, as long as survival is accomplished, it's perfectly acceptable)
On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah.
I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is.
Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?
Basically it's nai because the same argument could be made either way tbh.
Could hf do it as scum? Yes. Could he do it as tpwn? Possibly more 're than likely
Hf to my knowledge likes to play as scum and town so yeah
Sorry, here's my thought process, where do you disagree?
1. Holyflare isn't pushing his reads 2. If town doesn't push their reads, then they are not trying to win the game / disinterested in the game 3. If scum doesn't push their reads, this doesn't necessarily matter because their goal is to survive (thus, as long as survival is accomplished, it's perfectly acceptable)
Yeah I don't disagree but I don't see how three applies here as hf is using antisurvibal maneuvers but he could be scum wifoming. So it's nai
And meh, I'll look through Holyflare's filter again, but it still feels much more mafia-motivated. Maybe I need to read into emotions more and motivation less... or maybe the other way around. Bleh.
I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
On January 16 2016 23:15 Holyflare wrote: Rayn tell me where I lied
I have already said where i think you are lying.
Explain it again then trash panda. What did I lie about. Why aren't you trying to get me lynched if i obviously lied and am mafia.
I don't think i can explain that more clearly than i already did. I believe you had an intention to quit the game. You claim otherwise. I don't believe you, i don't believe you in that you had on intention to quit the game when you made your first two posts.
As you claim you didn't, it naturally makes the post that says " /out " a lie, or it makes the post where you say you didn't have an intention to quit a lie. Now i don't believe this because if you are town it's a fucking dick move and i don't want to believe you made a dick move. It's a dick move as mafia too, but it's a bit less of a dick move.
It's a dick move because you are talking about shit that doesn't have anything to do with playing a mafia game, and if you are town there is no reason to expect you are lying (there really isn't as mafia aswell given your rl situation), but still. If you are town it confirms you as town if you are telling the truth.
The game is fucking invalid if you are town and i dont' wanna play an invalid game, i'd rather start on D2 with 8vs3. Because if i believe here, that you are telling the truth and town -- then you are fucking confirmed town and nothing you or anyone ever does is gonna change that opinion.
Yes, i am not 100% certain you are mafia, you could also be a dick. But i am voting for you since, again, if i believe you are town here, you are confirmed town and the game is invalid.
if you are town there is no reason to expect you are lying in your first two posts of the game (there really isn't as mafia aswell given your rl situation), but still. If you are town it confirms you as town if you are telling the truth.
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
Caught up; I assume a smurf is a secondary account for an existing player? I'm less confident on my trifle read right now, as the rest of his play today has been more on point and town. And I actually like his case on HoleyFlair. Still feel he is a good secondary wagon for right now, especially with no vote changer roles. Anyone feel like telling me about Palmira's town/scum tells? And has Cephire even posted?
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
Actually judging from your case you started scumreading Holyflare when he made his vote on Damdred....
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare?
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
Actually judging from your case you started scumreading Holyflare when he made his vote on Damdred....
This is not true at all, what gives you this idea?
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
[quote]I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
Actually judging from your case you started scumreading Holyflare when he made his vote on Damdred....
This is not true at all, what gives you this idea?
It is a part of your case. Unless you decided to quote a post in your case which is NOT part of your case.
I'm actually halfway certain that Trfel is town here.
1) The way trfel is handling himself when interacting with people seems to have a genuine mindset of wanting to work with the thread. Most of the questions trfel aka are ok and doesn't really drop them.
2) While some of the reads or progression are questionable I don't think that's necessarily scum indicative of trfel. I think part of his response especially Sally to talking to me stepping back to reevaluate seems towny and even as he does this he has another thought process to talk about ie nm.
I like trfel I don't think he's lock town but definitely don't think he should,be lynched today
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
Actually judging from your case you started scumreading Holyflare when he made his vote on Damdred....
This is not true at all, what gives you this idea?
It is a part of your case. Unless you decided to quote a post in your case which is NOT part of your case.
My interpretation of that post changed based as Holyflare did more (or rather, didn't...), and as I thought about it differently.
Initially I had no problems with it, however as Holyflare posted more reads, I felt that he was making a ton of scumreads and not actually caring about them. This is not a conclusion that could be made until Holyflare made more posts (including showing that he was actually caring about the game).
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
How the fuck can you come to a conclusion this could be alignment indicative in ANY way???? Especially in the direction you claim.
So you like townread him for not doing anything (=playing properly) and when he continued doing anything (=not playing properly) then you scumread him for it?
I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it?
On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote: Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage?
I think you should probably first answer this:
On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town.
I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads.
When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.
But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......)
I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.
Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time?
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.
How the fuck can you come to a conclusion this could be alignment indicative in ANY way???? Especially in the direction you claim.
This is a general pattern for people, what don't you understand?
People as town will tend to be a bit more carefree and do whatever they want, people as scum are more focused on only doing what is necessary (generally making reads). I also feel that this is true for Holyflare. See Aperture 4, see the game where he was trying to run a gameshow. See his scum games, he's largely focused on the game. However, it's something that is possible to replicate as mafia, so it's only a little bit town indicative as a trend, instead of proof.
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare?
No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him.
VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare?
No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him.
VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
I am a bit confused here Alot. Do you think both Holyflare and Trfel are mafia? If you don't, why are you okay with both being lynch candidates?
On January 17 2016 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it?
I didn't townread him for being angry and saying that he had no time to play. I townread him for doing things that aren't strictly necessary from a mafia perspective.
In this game, Holyflare made a bunch of posts that didn't directly further his plan, notably the one I quoted. A direct route to accomplishing the same thing would have been:
"I think that Damdred is mafia because of xyz. I don't have much time to play because changing the game start by one day really affects my availability with respect to the deadlines."
Thus, I had a town lean on Holyflare.
Then, Holyflare made several scum reads at different points, causing me to think that he didn't care about his reads, as I described in my first post about him. This is much stronger than my initial town lean, and also, Holyflare scumreading 3 people and having zero townreads showed a more "direct" approach from a mafia perspective, changing my initial read.
On January 17 2016 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it?
I didn't townread him for being angry and saying that he had no time to play. I townread him for doing things that aren't strictly necessary from a mafia perspective.
In this game, Holyflare made a bunch of posts that didn't directly further his plan, notably the one I quoted. A direct route to accomplishing the same thing would have been:
"I think that Damdred is mafia because of xyz. I don't have much time to play because changing the game start by one day really affects my availability with respect to the deadlines."
Thus, I had a town lean on Holyflare.
Then, Holyflare made several scum reads at different points, causing me to think that he didn't care about his reads, as I described in my first post about him. This is much stronger than my initial town lean, and also, Holyflare scumreading 3 people and having zero townreads showed a more "direct" approach from a mafia perspective, changing my initial read.
But you just said you initially townread him for the post where he literally says [u]he doesn't have the time to play properly anymore!!!!!
Then you accuse him of being mafia because he ONLY posts scumreads (which is the most important thing to do if you don't have time to post/argue about everything you wanted).
How does making scumreads in a situation like that result in him being mafia? What should he have done instead? What is more important than posting who you think is mafia if you can only post one thing?
Basically you are claiming you believe him when he says he has only limited time to play the game and then accuse of him doing the MOST townie thing he can do with his limited time...[/i]
I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare.
His focus on scumreads was not scummy in and of itself, however it was contrary to the point that made me think he might be town earlier, which was the indirect approach.
Also, when I say focus, I mean focus on scumreads relative to townreads. His scum reads weren't focused at all, they were more random, it felt like throwing darts on a dartboard and hoping that something stuck.
If you still don't understand this, then I really don't know what to say. This is very simple and I have no clue how you keep saying things that simply are not true.
On January 17 2016 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Which is kinda ridiculous since it seems like you are not really scumreading him for his actual actions but the motivation behind it.
Um, that's exactly what I was doing, or at least trying to do.
If I'm reading your statement correctly, then it's probably the biggest compliment I've ever received for my mafia play, so thank you.
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Is there any other posts you like except the posts on Holyflare?
No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him.
VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
I am a bit confused here Alot. Do you think both Holyflare and Trfel are mafia? If you don't, why are you okay with both being lynch candidates?
I think Trifle is the more likely mafia of the two, but Holeyflair is definitely a possible mafia. If holeyflair gets lynched and flips mafia, I'll probably back off of Trifle.
Here is a post you say you townread Holyflare for:
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: [...] This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent. [...]
The post literally says "i don't have time to play properly". If you townread Holyflare for this post (which is what you said), i assume you also think he is telling the truth in what he says in this post.
On January 17 2016 02:32 Trfel wrote: I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare.
And then you claim this bullshit? I am not saying you townread him FOR not having time to play properly. I am saying you MUST believe this BECAUSE you townread him.
And then again we come to this. You believe HF has no time to play properly -> he does what's BEST to do if he tells the truth here and is town (which is what you believe) -> you scumread him for it.
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: [...] This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent. [...]
The post literally says "i don't have time to play properly". If you townread Holyflare for this post (which is what you said), i assume you also think he is telling the truth in what he says in this post.
On January 17 2016 02:32 Trfel wrote: I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare.
And then you claim this bullshit? I am not saying you townread him FOR not having time to play properly. I am saying you MUST believe this BECAUSE you townread him.
And then again we come to this. You believe HF has no time to play properly -> he does what's BEST to do if he tells the truth here and is town (which is what you believe) -> you scumread him for it.
It doesn't make any sense.
What?
Just because I townread someone for a post doesn't mean that I believe everything they said in the post. Like, if you made a joke about supporting Donald Trump, I might townread you for it, but I would certainly hope you didn't actually mean what you said. (yes, I'm actually being political for once )
My townread on Holyflare was primarily based on that post, but the statement that he had no time to play properly had NOTHING to do with it.
I expect town with limited time to care about the game just as much as town with infinite time. Holyflare's play doesn't show a lack of time to play the game (I mean, he's posted less than he normally does, but whatever. That's not important). Instead, it shows disinterest, and that he doesn't care about lynching his scumreads. Which is completely different from time issues.
I don't even know about Holyflare any more, can we PLEASE just talk about NocturneMage?
I've spent this past hour arguing about something I don't care about so that I can try to get someone to talk about my scumread. Can we just lynch mafia instead of wasting time?
On January 17 2016 02:49 Damdred wrote: Ok rayn talk to me,here.
Lets say flip happens trfel is town hf gets shot. What/who are you looking at?
No. I am not entertaining a scenario i don't believe to be true since i don't see a reason to believe it's true.
Do you see both HF and Trfel back down on each other? I do. It's like magic! I thought they were both really really sure each other is scum....
Here's what I don't get with thinking they are both scum though; why wouldn't they have backed down before they became the two biggest lynch candidates and stayed that way for a while? I mean at this point the only hope they have that one of them doesn't get lynched is I guess switching to NM? If the lynch is going to happen and they are both scum, wouldn't they want to have at least one of them come out smelling like a rose?
I am not asking you why don't you think they are both scum or not. I am asking you if you don't, why are you okay with the current direction of them both being lynch targets?
Like if you don't think they are both scum then one of them is town (duh). If one of them is town how on earth are you okay with "whichever of them getting lynched"?
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Because I'm not 100% on either of them. This is day1 where I don't know most of the players. I feel like I've probably got my vote on scum right now, but the people voting the other wagon have some good points too. I think it is probably one of them, but I'm not for sure which, so I'm voting the one I'm a little more confident in being scum.
My read is that Trfel is likely town, and is certainly not scum w/ HF. Damdred also town.
HF is definitely a dick this game, either alignment. I particularly dislike that he tells us he would totally say what he did as mafia, then start claiming, "I'm mod confirmed town" at us. I'm kinda with rayn in wanting him gone for WIFOMing outside of game and host actions but I honestly have no idea what he will flip. Is he anti-town? absolutely. Is he trolling? absolutely. What does that mean for his alignment? I don't know.
I townlean rayn, but I'm a bit cautious of him since it seems kind of clear to me that Trfel and HF aren't mafia together, and that is what rayn has been pushing.
On January 17 2016 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd lynch Palmar this game. His posts had a lot more...*umph* I guess. Intent, decisive execution. His posts this game have been mild by comparison.
On January 16 2016 23:15 Holyflare wrote: Rayn tell me where I lied
I have already said where i think you are lying.
Explain it again then trash panda. What did I lie about. Why aren't you trying to get me lynched if i obviously lied and am mafia.
I don't think i can explain that more clearly than i already did. I believe you had an intention to quit the game. You claim otherwise. I don't believe you, i don't believe you in that you had on intention to quit the game when you made your first two posts.
As you claim you didn't, it naturally makes the post that says " /out " a lie, or it makes the post where you say you didn't have an intention to quit a lie. Now i don't believe this because if you are town it's a fucking dick move and i don't want to believe you made a dick move. It's a dick move as mafia too, but it's a bit less of a dick move.
It's a dick move because you are talking about shit that doesn't have anything to do with playing a mafia game, and if you are town there is no reason to expect you are lying (there really isn't as mafia aswell given your rl situation), but still. If you are town it confirms you as town if you are telling the truth.
The game is fucking invalid if you are town and i dont' wanna play an invalid game, i'd rather start on D2 with 8vs3. Because if i believe here, that you are telling the truth and town -- then you are fucking confirmed town and nothing you or anyone ever does is gonna change that opinion.
Yes, i am not 100% certain you are mafia, you could also be a dick. But i am voting for you since, again, if i believe you are town here, you are confirmed town and the game is invalid.
Holy shit you're dumb. I never ever said those posts were a lie. Ever. I did not want to play in this reroll. Those posts are 100% genuine. I saw damdred's reaction was non existent and continued posting whine to see if it would continue. It didn't.
I think you'll find my apathy for this game directly stems from not wanting to play in either the first and especially not the reroll.
I only wanted to replace the first because then I could read at my own leisure if I had to replace. I /in'd because jat outed last second and I was asked.
Also VE if I recall correctly you agreed with Palmar on the same point against Trfel, his reads were contived/townread and scumread in the same post, now you don't like him for tone?
Unless I missed one of Palmars posts, what changed?
Nm while it a true full metal for trfel did sort of fit into two I don't think that this fits exactly. At a certain point trfel just gave up that game.
Not sure about here exactly cared a bot more about getting heard want to say town still.
Something about geript makes me sorta say don't lynch today either.
HF even though I think he flips town might just be the lynch to avoid distraction this game.
Also HF your last question to me, the logic was in the long post Rayn made...I realise this is useless without me being able to quote it.
I believe ASM and at least one other person also felt the similar logic in it so where did that come about you didn't understand, same thing with geript break down what made zero sense.
Obviously if this was made moot in the last six pages then fine but just saying.
Also HF your last question to me, the logic was in the long post Rayn made...I realise this is useless without me being able to quote it.
I believe ASM and at least one other person also felt the similar logic in it so where did that come about you didn't understand, same thing with geript break down what made zero sense.
Obviously if this was made moot in the last six pages then fine but just saying.
Right nm is definitely mafia. There is absolutely no logic in rayn's post because rayn's post makes 100 false assumptions based on a blatant misunderstanding/misrepresentation.
On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
And here is where I say I was annoyed. And now rayn's case doesn't make sense because he said I was lying about the first 2 posts.
Not voted (5): VisceraEyes, ritoky, Cephiro, DoYouHas, Damdred Currently, Holyflare is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 17 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread.
Trfel's case is bad because I clearly did have a thought process too.
Dandred and ritoky didn't respond = mafia, ritoky and damdred did then respond = drop.
Rayn makes trash post about how I lied and I didn't and goes against his OWN logic about how I would never post those things unless I was town after calling me confirmed town to trfel and geript = mafia.
His responses weren't awful so i felt a modicum less effort and called him trash instead of mafia.
Nm takes this rayn post and says it's good even though rayn's post isn't good in the slightest since rayn bases his whole post on a misrep and multiple assumptions = mafia.
Trfel first post was garbage because of stuff people already explained but my hard on for rayn being mafia made me not care about trfel.
I still don't care about this game because it's shite and half the people aren't playing.
This makes ritoky mafia because he is super demotivated right after being motivated. This also makes palmar mafia because he took the easy option in lynching me after being motivated.
You can tell I'm town by the fact that everyone says they want to lynch me but they're all keeping their votes off me because they don't want to look so obvious on this mislynch I've been setting up.
Likely a last minute switch to me but you should be wary of my countdown clock.
i was in love with it for 2 hours, then disappointed in the sudden tonal shift into splatterhouse even though i knew it was coming. the tension and subtlety was amazing though
Alright, just got here now. Didn't really pay attention to thread since I saw the early holyflare stuff and wasn't sure if this was going to become a game at all or not. Is there some actual content in the thread based on which people are being suspected for? Would appreciate some pointers, although it shouldn't take me too long to read these 10 pages or so. Will be around till deadline, that's in 3 hours is it not?
On January 16 2016 06:32 Palmar wrote: alot is just bad or troll
I am never changing my vote from HF while he's being a little bitch. If I change it, it'll be to trfel who is mafia.
I prefer lynching little crying bitches over mafia though.
On January 17 2016 00:37 Palmar wrote: we're 100% lynching hf and shooting trfel
I'm not really gonna read anything until they're both dead.
I'm here on the laptop. Finally.
Alright, spiel on Palmar. Okay with his first point against Trfel, but here's what I don't like - why go for a policy lynch (from what I'm reading) over a scum lynch and furthermore, why is he banking on a role that may or may not shoot Trfel depending on how he's read?
There are a lot of lurkers and others in the eyes of some of the other players have reason to be shot, hence a shot on Trfel is not necessarily guaranteed.
Additionally in both cases both players are players who can more easily be read in subsequent days, it's not like HF is lurking and not able to be read. So I don't get that either.
Also something additional in Trfel's filter I recall being possibly mafia indicative, it was related to his change on reads in ritoky. And the criteria he was using in shifting those reads between ritoky and myself using disinterest....checking that now...
On January 17 2016 05:55 Holyflare wrote: Because palmar's best day is day 1 unless he's mafia when it's not.
From another ongoing game I cannot mention this was brought up where he finds mafia day 1, here in this game, he has Trfel as mafia yet doesn't vote for him, so I am trying to figure out what he gets (from his view) out of a HF lynch, like what, information? not if people (from what I see Damdred, DYH) are saying, whoops no, let's just get HF out of the way via policy. Given other possible candidates I think it's a cop out unless they are legit scumreading you.
In any case I'm still catching up with the thread.
atm I can't see any possible town motivation from Palmar, so atm can switch to him if town want to consolidate on him.
On January 17 2016 05:56 Damdred wrote: I do like how nm is totally ignoring me and just doing his own thing.
???????
On January 17 2016 04:49 Damdred wrote: Nm while it a true full metal for trfel did sort of fit into two I don't think that this fits exactly. At a certain point trfel just gave up that game.
Not sure about here exactly cared a bot more about getting heard want to say town still.
Something about geript makes me sorta say don't lynch today either.
HF even though I think he flips town might just be the lynch to avoid distraction this game.
I though I agreed with points he made last game. Maybe I'm misremembering. I though all he's done this game was vote for HF and male throwaway posts. I'll check me fax and get back with you.
Just went through Ace's filter. I do not know how he normally plays as either alignment but overall impression from the filter is someone who is just laying back and in the event of a mislynch, we can conclude he's allowing town to destroy itself. Just seems disconnected from the thread, not clear on why he's scumreading HF (175/293 - not a policy lynch).
178 can come from either alignment. 175, the Palmar still doing town stuff allegedly part, I don't know why he doesn't just zero in on Palmar and take a stance one way or another.
But just looking at his filter, not knowing anything else, I'd say it warrants a scumlean.
Ace will not give his alignment away this phase. If you want to phaer lynch him that's fine, but he's good enough to hang back and be a mislynch target as town and represent doing so as mafia. We need info to see if he says things that give away his intentions later.
On January 17 2016 06:10 Damdred wrote: You will have to explain that one a lot more
I'll assume that's on my post on ritoky. Sure. Disinterest can come from either alignment, so I'm going to disregard that or any possible meta (my only exp with ritoky is two scum games, I've never had a town game with ritoky)
It's a shit associative read - but
It appears he's townreading VE and recognising a town and who to sheep is a town trait (yeh I realise you can sheep as mafia for shite reasons too but,....)
second, from his first post, he's not townreading Palmar. neither is/was VE, hence the connection. additionally Palmar's wanting to policy lynch over Trfel for what purpose I don't know.
like I said it might be a shitty heuristic, obviously if Palmar flips town then I have to re-evaluate.
On January 17 2016 06:11 VisceraEyes wrote: I though I agreed with points he made last game. Maybe I'm misremembering. I though all he's done this game was vote for HF and male throwaway posts. I'll check me fax and get back with you.
On January 17 2016 06:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Ya okay he can live I guess. My vote is still on Trfel in spirit.
Except that's the thing. That's really all that Palmar has done - posts 150/212.
I don't think that's enough to town read Ritoky on. For example,he has several scum games where he pushes the responsibility on someone else who is town. Down under I think he did this and he did it in a ongoing game which I can't talk about.
So I don't get your town read and your lack of suspicion about him after playing with two scum rut is a bit disconcerting especially when I want to tr you.
ASM's post, last 5-6 of his filter come off to me as a townie that just isn't confident.
Read specifically posts 254, 275, 286 and 290. I can see easily where he's grappling between Trfel and Holyflare despite him saying that Trfel's initial posts make him sceptical of what he's posted since, and the case on HF appears partially to be based on a pre-associative flip, which he seems aware of. In any case, he's showing he's thinking it through and making the best possible judgement with what he has in front of him.
DYH and Cephiro atm are coinflips, obvious, but there it is...
Right now, I'll take a re-look at Trfel and rayn interactions, etc and see if I missed anything.
On January 17 2016 06:35 Damdred wrote: Here's the thing.
I don't think that's enough to town read Ritoky on. For example,he has several scum games where he pushes the responsibility on someone else who is town. Down under I think he did this and he did it in a ongoing game which I can't talk about.
So I don't get your town read and your lack of suspicion about him after playing with two scum rut is a bit disconcerting especially when I want to tr you.
ritoky had a lot more material contentwise as mafia in the two games I've had with him and what made him mafia in both games I've had with him is not truing up here (if he should be mafia). I'm not saying he's inactive town, because the inactivity can come from either alignment. In any case, what I've mentioned is not a great heuristic, at best a very weak lean/gut call as I've mentioned before.
I'm still looking through other people and if I feel I have too many town reads then I have to go back to my weaker reads/null reads.
On January 17 2016 05:43 Holyflare wrote: Trfel's case is bad because I clearly did have a thought process too.
Dandred and ritoky didn't respond = mafia, ritoky and damdred did then respond = drop.
Rayn makes trash post about how I lied and I didn't and goes against his OWN logic about how I would never post those things unless I was town after calling me confirmed town to trfel and geript = mafia.
His responses weren't awful so i felt a modicum less effort and called him trash instead of mafia.
Nm takes this rayn post and says it's good even though rayn's post isn't good in the slightest since rayn bases his whole post on a misrep and multiple assumptions = mafia.
Trfel first post was garbage because of stuff people already explained but my hard on for rayn being mafia made me not care about trfel.
I still don't care about this game because it's shite and half the people aren't playing.
This makes ritoky mafia because he is super demotivated right after being motivated. This also makes palmar mafia because he took the easy option in lynching me after being motivated.
The last mafia is someone I don't care about.
So what, there is now 4 scum? Me, NM, ritoky and Palmar?
Also pushing the responsibility? You are referring to the sheeping of VE? That as simple as it is, as I said can come from either alignment though. And in "that other game we can't talk about" there was additional evidence that indicated a lot of the responsibility laid with him and what he said there didn't line up with what happened. That's where the abdication of responsibility was more mafia indicative.
I know what you are saying but I don't feel that between "that other game" and here it's entirely the same situation.
Like I see what you are saying and I get why it makes you sceptical but there is a town motivation side to that too, and I can't really discount that without more evidence or process of elimination over time.
On January 17 2016 05:43 Holyflare wrote: Trfel's case is bad because I clearly did have a thought process too.
Dandred and ritoky didn't respond = mafia, ritoky and damdred did then respond = drop.
Rayn makes trash post about how I lied and I didn't and goes against his OWN logic about how I would never post those things unless I was town after calling me confirmed town to trfel and geript = mafia.
His responses weren't awful so i felt a modicum less effort and called him trash instead of mafia.
Nm takes this rayn post and says it's good even though rayn's post isn't good in the slightest since rayn bases his whole post on a misrep and multiple assumptions = mafia.
Trfel first post was garbage because of stuff people already explained but my hard on for rayn being mafia made me not care about trfel.
I still don't care about this game because it's shite and half the people aren't playing.
This makes ritoky mafia because he is super demotivated right after being motivated. This also makes palmar mafia because he took the easy option in lynching me after being motivated.
The last mafia is someone I don't care about.
So what, there is now 4 scum? Me, NM, ritoky and Palmar?
Like Holyflare, do you realize it's YOUR actions that made ritoky and Palmar (and others like Cephiro, Ace and me for example) not care about the D1 as much as we should/could? Yes, i have intentionally not wanted to post in this game for that reason at times. Do you understand that YOU gave a perfect excuse for anyone to just do what at least five people did in case they are mafia, because it's and expected outcome from people -- you can't even argue against it because we all can't possibly be mafia.
I understand everyone who haven't given fucks about the D1, because i feel the same. So yeah, deal with the consequences then... Or what do you suggest we do? Lynch Palmar who can very well do this as town? IF he flips town, then what? Lynch ritoky? When he flips town too? Can we then lynch you? Because it's essentially YOUR fault they are playing like this (or well..not playing).
Because guess what... i suggest we lynch you since there is a high chance you are scum and in the worst place you flip town and then the people can't hide behind "i won't play because Holyflare" regardless of their affiliation.
On January 17 2016 06:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like Holyflare, do you realize it's YOUR actions that made ritoky and Palmar (and others like Cephiro, Ace and me for example) not care about the D1 as much as we should/could? Yes, i have intentionally not wanted to post in this game for that reason at times. Do you understand that YOU gave a perfect excuse for anyone to just do what at least five people did in case they are mafia, because it's and expected outcome from people -- you can't even argue against it because we all can't possibly be mafia.
I understand everyone who haven't given fucks about the D1, because i feel the same. So yeah, deal with the consequences then... Or what do you suggest we do? Lynch Palmar who can very well do this as town? IF he flips town, then what? Lynch ritoky? When he flips town too? Can we then lynch you? Because it's essentially YOUR fault they are playing like this (or well..not playing).
Because guess what... i suggest we lynch you since there is a high chance you are scum and in the worst place you flip town and then the people can't hide behind "i won't play because Holyflare" regardless of their affiliation.
I think it's 2 it was a postvrestriction game I was in.
Town Ritoky generally takes responsibility and pushes what he thinks. I don't even really know of there is much reason exactly for rot to town 've here besides just someone to,sheep for sheep sake
Besides that there were other things in the other game as well I agree. Like I agree town motivated side is town looks for someone to sheep they trust and does so. But there's also rayn and his soul read buddy me in here, so do you think 've deserved that type of sleeping at this poibt?
On January 17 2016 06:55 geript wrote: Rayn. Honestly. You're either Mafia or kinda making the game unfun. Can you like scale back to a 9 instead of an 11.
Yeah i am definitely the one making the game unfun.... Fuck you.
On January 17 2016 06:54 geript wrote: Or someone like Ace. I don't think I've ever lynched Ace when I'm town.
When I scumread Ace, VE said Ace isn't a good day 1 lynch based on meta, no dispute on that yet. If you have a different viewpoint that isn't policy lynch, let's hear it.
Re ASM, why? same argument? I'm making sense of where he's grappling between HF/Trfel.
On January 17 2016 06:55 geript wrote: Rayn. Honestly. You're either Mafia or kinda making the game unfun. Can you like scale back to a 9 instead of an 11.
Yeah i am definitely the one making the game unfun.... Fuck you.
You've ignored everything I've said and basically painted me as an idiot.
I'm sort of trying to have fun ignoring hf and rayn. Hf is going to claim a role when his counter hits 0. People who aren't playing and blame hf have themselves to blame, hf might be a duck for doing it like this. Marv was a duck, both are my friends. We are all responsible for our actions and we can only blame ourselves for not playing if we don't.
So I'm playing, lynch hf if it makes you feel better but I'll get info while I can.
On January 17 2016 06:54 geript wrote: Or someone like Ace. I don't think I've ever lynched Ace when I'm town.
When I scumread Ace, VE said Ace isn't a good day 1 lynch based on meta, no dispute on that yet. If you have a different viewpoint that isn't policy lynch, let's hear it.
Re ASM, why? same argument? I'm making sense of where he's grappling between HF/Trfel.
Yes same argument. It's the compilation post that made 0 sense I addition to his other senseless posts.
On January 17 2016 06:55 geript wrote: Rayn. Honestly. You're either Mafia or kinda making the game unfun. Can you like scale back to a 9 instead of an 11.
Yeah i am definitely the one making the game unfun.... Fuck you.
You've ignored everything I've said and basically painted me as an idiot.
I am sorry but no, you did that. you even called me an idiot when i was trying to argue with you.
Oh also whole thing probably would of been better worked out over mps so everyone has a little fault in this hosts included but it's not worth talk I,g about shrug
I mean rayn I've even tried to interact with you and you've ignored it and now you're being a whiney bitch. You come back and quote a post and extrapolate more misrepresentation and then qq away.
On January 17 2016 06:55 geript wrote: Rayn. Honestly. You're either Mafia or kinda making the game unfun. Can you like scale back to a 9 instead of an 11.
Yeah i am definitely the one making the game unfun.... Fuck you.
You've ignored everything I've said and basically painted me as an idiot.
I am sorry but no, you did that. you even called me an idiot when i was trying to argue with you.
Well we're friends not enemies and I don't think you're scum. So can we lynch someone who's not town?
On January 16 2016 23:15 Holyflare wrote: Rayn tell me where I lied
I have already said where i think you are lying.
Explain it again then trash panda. What did I lie about. Why aren't you trying to get me lynched if i obviously lied and am mafia.
I don't think i can explain that more clearly than i already did. I believe you had an intention to quit the game. You claim otherwise. I don't believe you, i don't believe you in that you had on intention to quit the game when you made your first two posts.
As you claim you didn't, it naturally makes the post that says " /out " a lie, or it makes the post where you say you didn't have an intention to quit a lie. Now i don't believe this because if you are town it's a fucking dick move and i don't want to believe you made a dick move. It's a dick move as mafia too, but it's a bit less of a dick move.
It's a dick move because you are talking about shit that doesn't have anything to do with playing a mafia game, and if you are town there is no reason to expect you are lying (there really isn't as mafia aswell given your rl situation), but still. If you are town it confirms you as town if you are telling the truth.
The game is fucking invalid if you are town and i dont' wanna play an invalid game, i'd rather start on D2 with 8vs3. Because if i believe here, that you are telling the truth and town -- then you are fucking confirmed town and nothing you or anyone ever does is gonna change that opinion.
Yes, i am not 100% certain you are mafia, you could also be a dick. But i am voting for you since, again, if i believe you are town here, you are confirmed town and the game is invalid.
Holy shit you're dumb. I never ever said those posts were a lie. Ever. I did not want to play in this reroll. Those posts are 100% genuine. I saw damdred's reaction was non existent and continued posting whine to see if it would continue. It didn't.
Your case on me is destroyed so why am I mafia rayn?
On January 17 2016 07:04 geript wrote: My arguments make sense. I'm maybe not explaining them well.
Let me take this a different direction then - because unless you further break down the ASM not making sense -> exclusively mafia (through what? distortion of the facts??? playing it safe?)
I'm looking at your post 191 and you are (apparently?) scumreading ASM for not commenting on someone? At best that's pre-associative if I am understanding you right.
You said you didn't want to lynch VE off a single quote and it was based on Palmar. So, what are your thoughts on Palmar and his approach to HF/Trfel?
On January 16 2016 01:21 AlotSomuch wrote: After looking at it again sober, Rayn is town. I see no rayn-flaw in his rayn-logic. Yet all the same, I'm starting to think Holeyflair is still probably town, specifically the karmic counterpart to Marvellin of last round. Kind of holding the game hostage and not wanting to play because he expected to be killed early and doesn't want to go an extra 24 hours into a game he signed up for. SHAME. SHAME. Also, I think Edumb1892 actually quit? He hasn't been back since his single "/out" post.
Right now I can see sixlover and trifle as scum here. Sixlover's pointless posting to appear relevant without saying anything in a way that offends me more than others. Trifle's gross post. maybe throw Getripped in there too, though he could just be wrong on Rayn. But that is initial scum team prediction. Of those I dislike Trifle's post the most, so current vote goes on Trifle. ##VOTE TRIFLE
Dislikes the post and considers it horrible (as do most in the thread at that point?), but never brings up any reason why.
On January 17 2016 01:49 AlotSomuch wrote: Caught up; I assume a smurf is a secondary account for an existing player? I'm less confident on my trifle read right now, as the rest of his play today has been more on point and town. And I actually like his case on HoleyFlair. Still feel he is a good secondary wagon for right now, especially with no vote changer roles. Anyone feel like telling me about Palmira's town/scum tells? And has Cephire even posted?
1. Feels less confident about Trfel, yet doesn't point out specific reasons why. (Saying play is more town / more scum means nothing if you don't clarify what exactly are the things that make you feel that way.) 2. Regardless of #1, wants to keep Trfel as a 2ndary wagon? 3. Doesn't point out any specifics about what he agrees with about the Holyflare case.
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Agrees with the point rayn made, and considers it enough of a reason to keep voting Trfel, then mentions how he's been looking better than Holyflare. Talks about how Holy has the majority of votes and expects rayn to swap target to Trfel if he ends up seeming more scummy?
Why not swap his on vote on holyflare that he considers more scummy and pressure him further, rather than constantly keep two viable lynch options that both take turns being scummier than the other? Mind you, he still hasn't presented any logical reasoning (only that he agrees/disagrees with points previously made, or feels more/less towny/scummy about a person, never anything specific).
On January 17 2016 02:20 AlotSomuch wrote: No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him.
VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
Gauging interest / encouraging to vote for Trfel, while just mentioning he considers Trfel's case on Holyflare good enough to support?
On January 17 2016 02:35 AlotSomuch wrote: I think Trifle is the more likely mafia of the two, but Holeyflair is definitely a possible mafia. If holeyflair gets lynched and flips mafia, I'll probably back off of Trifle.
Suddenly back to thinking Trfel is the more likely mafia, why would he ever take the case on Holyflare made by Trfel seriously if he considers Trfel mafia?
No specific reasoning and never anything of substance regarding any other player in the game, while having been around and posted a decent bit. He also isn't really committing trying to lynch either player (not that it looks like it's necessary right now?), and gives me off a vibe that is more about wanting to convey a feeling of "I've been sharing my opinion and participated", rather than "I'm trying to lynch my mafia read."
Not voted (4): VisceraEyes, ritoky, DoYouHas, Damdred Currently, Holyflare is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 17 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread.
Your argument on Alot is basically that he is scum because his reads post is worded improperly and the reads are based on shit reasons. But at the same time you think that Alot leaves his vote on Trfel (who you scumread), calls me town (who you townread) and doesn't wanna vote for Holyflare (who you townread).
Geez geript, there were three reads, all of which you agree with. Then you back up your argument with "Alot can't do anything because rayn, Palmar, HF and geript have "decided" already in which way the lynch goes". I could agree with this except at the same time you don't even fucking know if the dude knows anyone in this game except for me. So that doesn't make any sense to think that Alot knows we are (aside from me) strong minded players anyways. And in your scenario here, you think that Alot doesn't want to vote for town!Holyflare instead of scum!Trfel because of what????? Why the fuck wouldn't he vote for town!Holyflare instead of scum!Trfel if he is mafia? He could just go "wow let's sheep rayn here" and noone could blame him for that.
So yeah, the whole thing you claim Alot is scum for is based on very very sketchy reasons geript, it's like bullshit because you cannot think these all things at the same time and invent a motivation for Alot -- a motivation that would in your opinion be "the most likely play from mafia!Alot", especially when you claim you don't know what the dude is/isn't capable of posting and if he would bus or not, because the basic assumption SHOULD be that mafia people want to vote for town people over other mafia people if they can.
So yeah, your case and your thought process is literally bullshit and i am quite sure you are mafia for it.
On January 17 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote: I think it's 2 it was a postvrestriction game I was in.
Town Ritoky generally takes responsibility and pushes what he thinks. I don't even really know of there is much reason exactly for rot to town 've here besides just someone to,sheep for sheep sake
Besides that there were other things in the other game as well I agree. Like I agree town motivated side is town looks for someone to sheep they trust and does so. But there's also rayn and his soul read buddy me in here, so do you think 've deserved that type of sleeping at this poibt?
Okay, so this is basically a meta-related argument you are making against ritoky. I wasn't aware of the relationship/knowledge/whatever you want to call it between him and rayn, but I am aware of it between you and him. That's making some sense - I honestly don't know enough to figure out how much stock he should or shouldn't be putting into who he's sheeping and how much, I know he said he had a positive read sometime back on VE in Fullmetal but he was mafia in Fullmetal. IDK.
But your argument is making sense....still don't think at this time it's enough to make ritoky top lynch though.
On January 16 2016 01:21 AlotSomuch wrote: After looking at it again sober, Rayn is town. I see no rayn-flaw in his rayn-logic. Yet all the same, I'm starting to think Holeyflair is still probably town, specifically the karmic counterpart to Marvellin of last round. Kind of holding the game hostage and not wanting to play because he expected to be killed early and doesn't want to go an extra 24 hours into a game he signed up for. SHAME. SHAME. Also, I think Edumb1892 actually quit? He hasn't been back since his single "/out" post.
Right now I can see sixlover and trifle as scum here. Sixlover's pointless posting to appear relevant without saying anything in a way that offends me more than others. Trifle's gross post. maybe throw Getripped in there too, though he could just be wrong on Rayn. But that is initial scum team prediction. Of those I dislike Trifle's post the most, so current vote goes on Trifle. ##VOTE TRIFLE
Dislikes the post and considers it horrible (as do most in the thread at that point?), but never brings up any reason why.
excuse you, I elaborated on this point when asked by Trifle, and he himself actually said he got where I was coming from.
On January 17 2016 01:49 AlotSomuch wrote: Caught up; I assume a smurf is a secondary account for an existing player? I'm less confident on my trifle read right now, as the rest of his play today has been more on point and town. And I actually like his case on HoleyFlair. Still feel he is a good secondary wagon for right now, especially with no vote changer roles. Anyone feel like telling me about Palmira's town/scum tells? And has Cephire even posted?
1. Feels less confident about Trfel, yet doesn't point out specific reasons why. (Saying play is more town / more scum means nothing if you don't clarify what exactly are the things that make you feel that way.) 2. Regardless of #1, wants to keep Trfel as a 2ndary wagon? 3. Doesn't point out any specifics about what he agrees with about the Holyflare case.
On January 17 2016 01:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alot is there a reason why you do not agree with my case on Trfel?
Had to go all the way back to the beginning to find which case you were specifically talking about (back to page 6). I agree with your point on his post, and it is part of the reason I voted and am still voting him. It's a suspicious post. I'm saying he's made some better posts throughout the day. I'm still suspicious, which is why I haven't unvoted and want to keep him as the secondary wagon, but I'm also getting more suspicious of Holeyflair. Votes currently stand at 3 votes on Holey, 2 votes on trifle. I'm ok with that right now, and I'm kind of expecting you to switch to Trifle if you feel he is the more likely scum right before EOD.
Agrees with the point rayn made, and considers it enough of a reason to keep voting Trfel, then mentions how he's been looking better than Holyflare. Talks about how Holy has the majority of votes and expects rayn to swap target to Trfel if he ends up seeming more scummy?
Why not swap his on vote on holyflare that he considers more scummy and pressure him further, rather than constantly keep two viable lynch options that both take turns being scummier than the other? Mind you, he still hasn't presented any logical reasoning (only that he agrees/disagrees with points previously made, or feels more/less towny/scummy about a person, never anything specific).
On January 17 2016 02:20 AlotSomuch wrote: No, those were mostly it. He presented a viable alternate candidate and made some good points on him.
VISCERAEYES, looking back, you voted Trifle but never actually put it in the voting thread. Are you still feeling he is the best candidate, and if so are you going to be putting your vote back there?
Gauging interest / encouraging to vote for Trfel, while just mentioning he considers Trfel's case on Holyflare good enough to support?
On January 17 2016 02:35 AlotSomuch wrote: I think Trifle is the more likely mafia of the two, but Holeyflair is definitely a possible mafia. If holeyflair gets lynched and flips mafia, I'll probably back off of Trifle.
Suddenly back to thinking Trfel is the more likely mafia, why would he ever take the case on Holyflare made by Trfel seriously if he considers Trfel mafia?
No specific reasoning and never anything of substance regarding any other player in the game, while having been around and posted a decent bit. He also isn't really committing trying to lynch either player (not that it looks like it's necessary right now?), and gives me off a vibe that is more about wanting to convey a feeling of "I've been sharing my opinion and participated", rather than "I'm trying to lynch my mafia read."
Thus;
##Vote: AlotSomuch
Honestly most of this is utter crap where you answer your previous question with my very next quote or leave out the quotes where I answer these same questions from other players. This is a skimmy case made of skimmy facts and skimmy reasons, but a whole lot of crap.
On January 17 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote: I think it's 2 it was a postvrestriction game I was in.
Town Ritoky generally takes responsibility and pushes what he thinks. I don't even really know of there is much reason exactly for rot to town 've here besides just someone to,sheep for sheep sake
Besides that there were other things in the other game as well I agree. Like I agree town motivated side is town looks for someone to sheep they trust and does so. But there's also rayn and his soul read buddy me in here, so do you think 've deserved that type of sleeping at this poibt?
Okay, so this is basically a meta-related argument you are making against ritoky. I wasn't aware of the relationship/knowledge/whatever you want to call it between him and rayn, but I am aware of it between you and him. That's making some sense - I honestly don't know enough to figure out how much stock he should or shouldn't be putting into who he's sheeping and how much, I know he said he had a positive read sometime back on VE in Fullmetal but he was mafia in Fullmetal. IDK.
But your argument is making sense....still don't think at this time it's enough to make ritoky top lynch though.
Honestly I don't know that I want to lynch him to say as I do think if he starts scrapping town rainbows he's an asset.
The other nonprescenses in the thread worry me a bit,more. Don't you think?
I love how you're not even trying to address a single point, just saying it's all crap and skimmy and trying to negate it without having to deal in specifics, once again. Just as before, just saying you like or don't like what something has said/done.
Cause why deal with specifics if you don't have to, right? If you are town, you should know much better than nodding or shaking your head. Opinions aren't going to get anyone lynched, you have to provide actual reasons and own thoughts+points on stuff.
I'll keep pushing you for lynch as is. Admit what I pointed out and explain me how it doesn't make you mafia, or prove me wrong if you want me to take you seriously.
Cephiro, honestly most of the points you are making on ASM could be answered by reading the thread in and around his responses. Maybe I can see if you are trying to get additional responses beyond that (like an agenda for a potential partner's scumreads) but that's not what I'm getting from your case.
That is how and likely why I came to the opposite conclusion on him.
On January 17 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote: I think it's 2 it was a postvrestriction game I was in.
Town Ritoky generally takes responsibility and pushes what he thinks. I don't even really know of there is much reason exactly for rot to town 've here besides just someone to,sheep for sheep sake
Besides that there were other things in the other game as well I agree. Like I agree town motivated side is town looks for someone to sheep they trust and does so. But there's also rayn and his soul read buddy me in here, so do you think 've deserved that type of sleeping at this poibt?
Okay, so this is basically a meta-related argument you are making against ritoky. I wasn't aware of the relationship/knowledge/whatever you want to call it between him and rayn, but I am aware of it between you and him. That's making some sense - I honestly don't know enough to figure out how much stock he should or shouldn't be putting into who he's sheeping and how much, I know he said he had a positive read sometime back on VE in Fullmetal but he was mafia in Fullmetal. IDK.
But your argument is making sense....still don't think at this time it's enough to make ritoky top lynch though.
Honestly I don't know that I want to lynch him to say as I do think if he starts scrapping town rainbows he's an asset.
The other nonprescenses in the thread worry me a bit,more. Don't you think?
Well Ceph just posted a big case right now if he's trying to get more information on/from a scumread....but right now it's similar to how people are reading mderg for sounding too broad. I realise ASM and mderg are two different players here but it's a similar problem. I think the case, barring additional purpose/information is pretty bad.
And DYH is a low-volume poster as either alignment, only substantive post he has could come from either alignment.
Like I'm still going through a few other things atm, but if all else fails, I will fall back on a policy lynch.
I'm also a bit puzzled as to the collective hesitation on Palmar (barring weekend inactivity).
If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
Literally every single one of your questions was already asked and answered. You are literally being too lazy to do any of your own research and are asking me to fix your case for you, while multiple people are telling you the things you say I never answered and explained, were in fact answered and explained.
On January 17 2016 07:26 Cephiro wrote: If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
If that's truly how it went down and A dude is a five then it sounds like he's trying to keep both wagons going without keeping his story straight.
I thought HF wanted to die. Is he interested in living now? Lol
On January 17 2016 07:26 Cephiro wrote: If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
This is DAY 1. I don't know you people. I think Trifle is probably mafia, and I vote him. He starts making some good points. Not good enough to cover up the bad stuff I already find him suspicious for, but just because I'm suspicious of someone does not mean they can't make good cases. I leave my vote where it is, and admit that if Holey DOES get lynched, and he DOES flip mafia, then I'm probably wrong about Trifle and won't go after him day 2. I say that because at the time it looks more likely holey will get lynched instead of trifle. What exactly is so difficult to understand about this?
On January 17 2016 07:26 Cephiro wrote: If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
The way you are phrasing this, you are taking the points in isolation/absolutes. He even said there were other points of his play he considered plus Holyflare's play.
In the event you are town, it's probably better at this point for ASM to straight up respond to you here, but I can actually see a town motivation.
I think ceph is probably town from this. If try trfel or hf flip scum I think he's a bit more suspect. Bit I don't see this kind of pressure/activity in what amounts to a largely inactive game coming from scum with town up for lynch hmmm
On January 17 2016 07:26 Cephiro wrote: If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
This is DAY 1. I don't know you people. I think Trifle is probably mafia, and I vote him. He starts making some good points. Not good enough to cover up the bad stuff I already find him suspicious for, but just because I'm suspicious of someone does not mean they can't make good cases. I leave my vote where it is, and admit that if Holey DOES get lynched, and he DOES flip mafia, then I'm probably wrong about Trifle and won't go after him day 2. I say that because at the time it looks more likely holey will get lynched instead of trifle. What exactly is so difficult to understand about this?
On January 17 2016 07:26 Cephiro wrote: If he constantly thought that Trfel was the better lynch, why the hell would he ever take Trfel's case on Holyflare seriously? That doesn't make any sense.
If your #1 scumread makes a case on someone, who the hell reacts to that by saying the case is good and has valid points, making that #1 scumread less scummy and the case they made the person on more scummy, and still somehow keeping the #1 scumread as #1?
Someone explain me how you wrapped your heads around that logic? Because I sure as hell don't see why a townie would ever react that way.
This is DAY 1. I don't know you people. I think Trifle is probably mafia, and I vote him. He starts making some good points. Not good enough to cover up the bad stuff I already find him suspicious for, but just because I'm suspicious of someone does not mean they can't make good cases. I leave my vote where it is, and admit that if Holey DOES get lynched, and he DOES flip mafia, then I'm probably wrong about Trifle and won't go after him day 2. I say that because at the time it looks more likely holey will get lynched instead of trifle. What exactly is so difficult to understand about this?
Don't rule out a Trifle/HF scum team
Except I already have. Why would they start to back off from each other at the End of the phase, when after going for each other throughout the day they could have ended with one of them looking great, instead of STILL getting lynched (as they have stayed the top vote candidates throughout) and looking awful for backing off at the last minute in a failed attempt to save a scummate?
On January 17 2016 07:34 AlotSomuch wrote: This is DAY 1. I don't know you people. I think Trifle is probably mafia, and I vote him. He starts making some good points. Not good enough to cover up the bad stuff I already find him suspicious for, but just because I'm suspicious of someone does not mean they can't make good cases. I leave my vote where it is, and admit that if Holey DOES get lynched, and he DOES flip mafia, then I'm probably wrong about Trifle and won't go after him day 2. I say that because at the time it looks more likely holey will get lynched instead of trifle. What exactly is so difficult to understand about this?
So what you're saying is... you think Trfel is the likeliest mafia. Then he spouts out a decent case which you agree with to some extent.
My line of thought is this:
1) Why would you give a shit about what mafia thinks unless you think you can associate their fake case into finding more mafia, or alternatively confirming someone as town? 2) If you're not confident enough that they're mafia and willing to admit the case has good points that you agree with and would push, why do you keep thinking of them as your #1 mafia read? 3) Since you're clearly unsure if Trfel is mafia or not, why aren't you trying to push the issue more strongly / question him further to ensure your read on him?
It really doesn't look like a town trying to get his scumread lynched, especially with the way you're keeping your options open. A townie shouldn't think about keeping options open, but to find the mafia and get that player killed. With the amount of pushing for someone you've been doing on your own accord, and the wishy-washyness regarding actually being fine with either of the current top-2 lynch targets, I don't see that sincerely coming from town. You're not willing to commit to your read the way a townie should be doing, thus I'm very certain you're scum.
On January 17 2016 07:43 Holyflare wrote: Why does rayn keep dodging me?
Because i don't wanna talk with you about my read on you. I don't care what you say about it. I don't care if you try to defend yourself. I just don't care.
On January 17 2016 07:43 Holyflare wrote: Why does rayn keep dodging me?
Because i don't wanna talk with you about my read on you. I don't care what you say about it. I don't care if you try to defend yourself. I just don't care.
But your case isn't a read on me. It's literally based on something I said that you have misquoted. Why aren't you addressing this in the slightest?
On January 17 2016 07:34 AlotSomuch wrote: This is DAY 1. I don't know you people. I think Trifle is probably mafia, and I vote him. He starts making some good points. Not good enough to cover up the bad stuff I already find him suspicious for, but just because I'm suspicious of someone does not mean they can't make good cases. I leave my vote where it is, and admit that if Holey DOES get lynched, and he DOES flip mafia, then I'm probably wrong about Trifle and won't go after him day 2. I say that because at the time it looks more likely holey will get lynched instead of trifle. What exactly is so difficult to understand about this?
So what you're saying is... you think Trfel is the likeliest mafia. Then he spouts out a decent case which you agree with to some extent.
My line of thought is this:
1) Why would you give a shit about what mafia thinks unless you think you can associate their fake case into finding more mafia, or alternatively confirming someone as town? 2) If you're not confident enough that they're mafia and willing to admit the case has good points that you agree with and would push, why do you keep thinking of them as your #1 mafia read? 3) Since you're clearly unsure if Trfel is mafia or not, why aren't you trying to push the issue more strongly / question him further to ensure your read on him?
It really doesn't look like a town trying to get his scumread lynched, especially with the way you're keeping your options open. A townie shouldn't think about keeping options open, but to find the mafia and get that player killed. With the amount of pushing for someone you've been doing on your own accord, and the wishy-washyness regarding actually being fine with either of the current top-2 lynch targets, I don't see that sincerely coming from town. You're not willing to commit to your read the way a townie should be doing, thus I'm very certain you're scum.
If you can absolutely peg mafia without having any doubts whatsoever within the first 24 hours of day 1 short of a mafia slip, my hat off to you. I think I found the most LIKELY mafia. I can obviously still be wrong. Holey fell into 2nd place most likely. I'm not going to change votes from 1stplace most likely to 2nd place most likely. And at this point, as it has been trhoughout the entire day, they are the top two lynch candidates. And sorry I don't push to your satisfaction? I'm sticking with my gut and voting Trifle. I haven't seen a better case that I like enough to switch, and I actually feel like I'm doing an ok job keeping up with the thread and remembering who is who when I know 2/12 other players.
On January 16 2016 23:15 Holyflare wrote: Rayn tell me where I lied
I have already said where i think you are lying.
Explain it again then trash panda. What did I lie about. Why aren't you trying to get me lynched if i obviously lied and am mafia.
I don't think i can explain that more clearly than i already did. I believe you had an intention to quit the game. You claim otherwise. I don't believe you, i don't believe you in that you had on intention to quit the game when you made your first two posts.
As you claim you didn't, it naturally makes the post that says " /out " a lie, or it makes the post where you say you didn't have an intention to quit a lie. Now i don't believe this because if you are town it's a fucking dick move and i don't want to believe you made a dick move. It's a dick move as mafia too, but it's a bit less of a dick move.
It's a dick move because you are talking about shit that doesn't have anything to do with playing a mafia game, and if you are town there is no reason to expect you are lying (there really isn't as mafia aswell given your rl situation), but still. If you are town it confirms you as town if you are telling the truth.
The game is fucking invalid if you are town and i dont' wanna play an invalid game, i'd rather start on D2 with 8vs3. Because if i believe here, that you are telling the truth and town -- then you are fucking confirmed town and nothing you or anyone ever does is gonna change that opinion.
Yes, i am not 100% certain you are mafia, you could also be a dick. But i am voting for you since, again, if i believe you are town here, you are confirmed town and the game is invalid.
Holy shit you're dumb. I never ever said those posts were a lie. Ever. I did not want to play in this reroll. Those posts are 100% genuine. I saw damdred's reaction was non existent and continued posting whine to see if it would continue. It didn't.
Respond. Right now rayn.
You're copping out with a lynch on me to under the guise of both qq and a mafia read both of which are false.
DO YOU HOLYFLARE UNDERSTAND YOU ARE SAYING YOU DID WANT TO QUIT FROM THE GAME AND CONTINUED USING THAT AS AN EXCUSE TO "MAKE READS" INSTEAD OF SAYING "NO I DIDN'T ACTUALLY MEAN THAT, I WILL PLAY". THIS RESULTED IN HALF OF THE PEOPLE NOT GIVING ANY SHITS ABOUT THIS GAME, THIS RESULTED IN TWO PEOPLE FROM THE OBS QT TO POST IN A THREAD THEY SHOULDN'T. THIS RESULTED IN THE HOST CLARIFYING YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY IN INTENT OF QUITTING THE GAME.
YES, I DON'T EVEN FUCKING THINK YOU ARE MAFIA BUT YOU DESERVE TO DIE BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET MODKILLED.
and that is why i couldn't fucking care less and i am defaulting my vote on you until one of us is dead. because the game is bullshit as long as you are alive in the game.
On January 17 2016 07:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: DO YOU HOLYFLARE UNDERSTAND YOU ARE SAYING YOU DID WANT TO QUIT FROM THE GAME AND CONTINUED USING THAT AS AN EXCUSE TO "MAKE READS" INSTEAD OF SAYING "NO I DIDN'T ACTUALLY MEAN THAT, I WILL PLAY". THIS RESULTED IN HALF OF THE PEOPLE NOT GIVING ANY SHITS ABOUT THIS GAME, THIS RESULTED IN TWO PEOPLE FROM THE OBS QT TO POST IN A THREAD THEY SHOULDN'T. THIS RESULTED IN THE HOST CLARIFYING YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY IN INTENT OF QUITTING THE GAME.
YES, I DON'T EVEN FUCKING THINK YOU ARE MAFIA BUT YOU DESERVE TO DIE BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET MODKILLED.
Thanks for admitting you know I'm confirmed town. Gg.
Why the hell would I care what hosts or people out of the game did. This is a game about information and you're bitching about things I can't control. Grow the fuck up rayn.
On January 17 2016 07:48 DoYouHas wrote: @NM- how are you feeling about a HF lynch right now?
Ignoring any of the mod-related stuff...
Like reading his interaction with rayn first impression was town on town before I AFKed. Then he question's rayn's logic and thinks I'm mafia for that. My only caveat with HF is that he's not looking at the rest of my play, then again, that's probably NAI since he makes calls off one post.
Like right now, I feel more sold on Palmar/geript, I see rayn is saying Palmar's play is NAI (ignoring his weekend going afk), geript pushing ASM for meh reasons and not addressing the ongoing Ceph/ASM interactions...
I'm reading Trfel, and I feel there's a few more things I don't like either, his use of disinterest in pushing reads (????). He's scumreading HF's tone as aggressive but part of that aggressive tone is because of the whole mod situation which I'm trying to ignore. I wasn't around present with HF when he was alive in Outlaw, but I know from ages ago when I obsed Gaiden he was pretty aggressive as town pushing his scumreads, so that could be considered NAI.
Like from Fullmetal, Trfel takes NAI points and makes them scummy...and if HF is going to be aggressive in pushing townreads and he's not pushing.....he's going to get scumread either way.
I'm just feeling really meh about Trfel and at this moment, his cases are really poor and I'm just really struggling to understand why people are townreading him (you, Damdred).
Nope, I'm not flipping scum. And Trfel's push on me is pretty darn scummy.
Also you said I was pretty disinterested and comparing myself to ritoky so where do you stand on that now given what I've been trying to do and what ritoky has done since he last afked?
On January 17 2016 01:13 Trfel wrote: I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia?
Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all.
Question for overall thread sentiment since there's still quite a decent amount of votes on Trfel..
I can see how his cases aren't exactly the most rock solid ones, but am I missing something really obvious? Other than him being somewhat wishywashy, I can't find any ill intent as in intentionally trying to make a player look off worse than what they are. There's a difference between cases not being perfect and cases manipulated with bad intentions, and I honestly don't see the latter when I look at Trfel's play. It doesn't feel coming from mafia at all, being very co-operative, not shitting the thread up while posting a lot (he seems to be trying to create useful discussion or progress the thread in most posts of his?).
So why is he one of the main lynch targets w/ 3 votes?
Going to wait for the NM case(s), and would like to hear more opinions about my case/push on Alot. I still think what I said makes sense, and feel it'd be pretty unnatural for a townie to act as such. Do people really think he has been trying to make things happen instead of contently doing enough to give the impression he's participating?
Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia?
Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all.
I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say here, do you mind rephrasing this more simply/directly?
On January 17 2016 08:17 NocturneMage wrote: Also why are people (besides Damdred) ignoring geript and Palmar?
I'd still lynch him in spite of me agreeing with him about Trfel. That's easily something scum Palmar can pick on a town Trfel for doing. Or even a mafia partner Trfel, but that's less likely since he's calling for a vig shot on him.
At any rate I'm not sure Palmar is mafia, but the activity and shit-giving% between the OG game and the reroll are like night and day. Problem is the same can be said about others, and it can't make them all mafia.
On January 17 2016 01:13 Trfel wrote: I guess I could be willing to lynch NocturneMage. I don't think I want to lynch ritoky. It feels like NocturneMage is much more likely to be mafia.
I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips.
My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to.
NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me.
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think?
This is your most substantial argument against me and as far as I'm aware, your only one.
When you re-enter the thread, or earlier before you afked you are trying to get others to discuss me.
You return to the thread when DYH votes me and then maintain your scumread on me after a number of things have transpired in the thread.
If I'm your top scumread, you should have noticed any and all of the material I've posted, so I want to know what in that you've found scummy and/or why you would maintain I'm mafia trying to fit in.
At the time Holyflare was getting lynched, it's early in the day and everyone is still trying to figure shit out. I'm purposely ignoring the entire modconfirm/administrative stuff and just trying to play mafia, regardless of HF's alignment there are 2 mafia (in the event HF is mafia) so just centring things around him is a cop-out. My initial analysis was made off a conversation, I tried to read damn filters and I'm still trying to understand how you are coming to the conclusions you are about him. I might not be seeing the same shit you are, but that doesn't make me mafia.
And even if I shouldn't lynch you because you're town and I'm making a mistake as town, I am also concerned at the people that are doing dick all and going ignored if we're all town and tearing each other apart. And why there's no commentary on that.
On January 17 2016 08:23 Trfel wrote: VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me.
It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
On January 17 2016 08:23 Trfel wrote: VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me.
It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory.
If you must know, I was attempting to save a game that I was worried would need to be aborted, again.
About half of my reasons to scumread ritoky were fluff, about half were genuine reasons. Did they warrant a vote? No. Was I actually suspicious of him? Yes, but I have learned from experience that if I say the level of suspicion that I actually feel, no one listens because I'm apparently too wishy-washy to talk to.
I've been trying to solve the game and work with people throughout, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that my approach to the game is scummy.
So my thinking for a scum NM basically comes down to these two points, which tie together.
1. Strange approach to HF and rayn. NM's initial read is that their scumming eachother was town on town. NM is scumreading Trfel. NM isn't trying to convince people off of the very likely to be lynched HF when he has a townread on HF. Particularly strange since he also has a townread on HF's prime pusher, rayn. It is even stranger when the secondary wagon which has momentum is Trfel.
2. Something that NM was advised of last game by HTS after-the-fact was that something he does as town is to call out when people are using things to call others scum that do not make them scum. The lack of him doing that was one of the ways she was sure he was scum. This game, he is doing that. But he isn't doing it to stop a push on HF.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
To clarify point 2. In this game it looks like he is calling out bad reasons to call others scum as an end in itself, not as a means to something. Which points to focusing on appearance, which is scummy.
It is how he reading the thread seeking interactions and looking from different angles to get to a food conclusion. He has a super town mindset and is trying to be a town hero. Also his approach is balanced even if he comes to conclusions I somewhat disagree with.
On January 17 2016 08:30 DoYouHas wrote: So my thinking for a scum NM basically comes down to these two points, which tie together.
1. Strange approach to HF and rayn. NM's initial read is that their scumming eachother was town on town. NM is scumreading Trfel. NM isn't trying to convince people off of the very likely to be lynched HF when he has a townread on HF. Particularly strange since he also has a townread on HF's prime pusher, rayn. It is even stranger when the secondary wagon which has momentum is Trfel.
2. Something that NM was advised of last game by HTS after-the-fact was that something he does as town is to call out when people are using things to call others scum that do not make them scum. The lack of him doing that was one of the ways she was sure he was scum. This game, he is doing that. But he isn't doing it to stop a push on HF.
Same response I just gave to Trfel now. EARLY ENOUGH IN THE GAME and those reads can change, also people policy lynching HF is another issue we have to contend with here. I can convince people of a scumread until I am blue in the face but if people want to policy lynch HF there's nothing I can do about it and I still maintain that Trfel is taking certain NAI factors and making it alignment indicative. (ritoky vs myself......uh hello?!??!?!?!?)
One way to stop a push on a townread is to convince them more on your scumread but aside from saying "plynch is a copout/etc" I'm really not going to get anywhere. And Damdred truly believes in his townread on Trfel, I get that and looked into other people since this is a 10v3 game.
Not voted (2): ritoky, Damdred Currently, Trfel is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 17 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another.
DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage.
And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another.
DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage.
And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another.
DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage.
And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview.
Um, my read is entirely correct.
Palmar didn't troll at all in Outlaw Mafia (at least not in the first three days, pretty sure he didn't after that, either). At least, not relative to Palmar, anyway.
An example of Palmar trolling is shown in Down Under 2, where Palmar was talking to two or three other Palmars. Another example of Palmar trolling is shown in Linux Mafia, where he mocked the recently released movie "The Interview" by drawing attention to himself without furthering the game in any way. It's not something I can explain, you'd have to read it to believe it.
Okay, looking through Palmar's filter, it appears that my townread on Palmar is really awful. My bad. He definitely has been approaching this game "seriously", but without the fire that Palmar has as town when he thinks he found mafia.
On January 17 2016 08:23 Trfel wrote: VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me.
It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory.
If you must know, I was attempting to save a game that I was worried would need to be aborted, again.
About half of my reasons to scumread ritoky were fluff, about half were genuine reasons. Did they warrant a vote? No. Was I actually suspicious of him? Yes, but I have learned from experience that if I say the level of suspicion that I actually feel, no one listens because I'm apparently too wishy-washy to talk to.
I've been trying to solve the game and work with people throughout, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that my approach to the game is scummy.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another.
DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage.
And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview.
the fuck? clarify
Sure. I just asked him a question where does he go after I flip.
I'm town, so if I get lynched, it's a mislynch.
In the event I'm wrong on him and he's town ("one way or another") he comes under suspicion for pushing the mislynch, and in a way that is quite similar to Fullmetal (those who recognise the game will understand what I mean). If I'm wrong on him and he's town, any information he gives regarding other people might help me or others figure out his alignment. If he's mafia, then any answer he gives (or non-answer) may help others find partner(s) etc.
See that's what fucking sucks in games with people who don't fucking care. He could be town and doing this to lynch what he thinks is mafia to win, but if he looks scumym for it who the fuck cares he doesn't want to play anyway. Or he could be doing it TO look scummy SO people vote for him AS TOWN.
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another.
DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage.
And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview.
Um, my read is entirely correct.
Palmar didn't troll at all in Outlaw Mafia (at least not in the first three days, pretty sure he didn't after that, either). At least, not relative to Palmar, anyway.
An example of Palmar trolling is shown in Down Under 2, where Palmar was talking to two or three other Palmars. Another example of Palmar trolling is shown in Linux Mafia, where he mocked the recently released movie "The Interview" by drawing attention to himself without furthering the game in any way. It's not something I can explain, you'd have to read it to believe it.
Alright, so you have your basis for that meta, fine. This doesn't make you mafia.
I can shennanie onto Palmar or geript if we aren't getting the majority on Trfel.
On January 17 2016 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Hmmmm....If it were anyone but Holyflare I'd probably let that slide.
Holyflare you're going to have to give me a really fast really compelling reason to let you live after that.
Because I'm modconfirmed town and rayn knows it and there's no way I'd go this long not giving a shit as the person who never wants to lose as mafia?
Thing is I've actually been here this entire time trying to get rayn to explain his bull shit read on me.
I tuned out you and rayn a long ass time ago. Your whole argument is retarded and I don't care what happened or who is right or wrong or retarded. I'm under the impression that you don't give a shit and don't care about this game. IF you're going to try, even though you didn't want to play, then I won't vote for you.
I don't know anything about you being modconfirmed town, but I'll kill you myself if you don't give a shit about the game and aren't going to help us find mafia regardless of your alignment.
Out of the current candidates Trfel is the one I least want to lynch, I thought that was pretty obvious with my post where I asked what I'm not seeing that some of you others seem to be seeing?
On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote: Meh, here goes nothing.
AlotSomuch is town
On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair
I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.
ritoky is mafia
Ritoky's play doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. He seems to be very disinterested in the game, instead of enjoying it, while implying that he's a bit involved. He's very willing to engage in banter, and answers questions about the game, but he doesn't do anything at all to further the game. + Show Spoiler [examples] +
On January 15 2016 09:18 ritoky wrote: a former oregon coach is now the coach of the dumpster fire 49ers; finally i can consolihate. great day.
He completely ignored all of the thread at the time. I would have expected him as town to directly address Damdred.
On January 15 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: People having 0 respect for a game going on basically. Hf will swap but if you aren't oh the players list just not right.
Anyway rit what do you think of say hf? More than likely town?
On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him.
On January 15 2016 11:02 ritoky wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encountered yesterday.
This is a story about a man and his pride.
Pride in this sense is being used for its negative meaning. Commonly pride can be used to refer to a sense of satisfaction or attachment to something, but not in this case. Rather we are using it in the sense of an inflated sense of self.
The serious thing about pride is that it can cause someone to make irrational decisions or decisions that have much larger consequences out of a misplaced sense of the situation.
This is where yesterday falls flat. As Aristotle taught us, pride can be both a virtue and a vice. As such marv rolled an alignment that he felt uncomfortable playing as, and rather than acquiesce to the powers at be he stood up for what he believed was right and what he had pride for: his town play. He refused to be forced to bend to the whims of an RNG machine for the amusement of others.
The hosts punished marv for being virtuous.
#FreeMarv
On January 15 2016 11:04 ritoky wrote: Fellow believers, support me in:
The Free Virtuous Marv Petition: 1. ritoky
If you too feel that men and women should not be punished for being virtuous reach out to me for support.
Mocking Holyflare doesn't do anything to move the game forward, and isn't really funny, either. Ritoky doesn't try to actually get involved or talk to anyone.
The clincher is this post:
On January 15 2016 09:57 ritoky wrote: wat the fuck is going on?
Which indicates a surprise of the state of the game. Ritoky doesn't seem to be enjoying the game, as his posts feel very uninspired and flat. Yet he doesn't do anything to further the game. This post:
On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him.
suggests that ritoky is thinking about reads this game, but doesn't follow Damdred's lead to get the game started at all.
##vote ritoky
There is literally no way that someone believes he found mafia, but is still so unexcited about it that he puts some random shitty townread first in the post.
It's so unenthusiastic that I could cry
On January 17 2016 08:29 Trfel wrote: About half of my reasons to scumread ritoky were fluff,
you should probably think about lynching this guy next.
I will make sure i will explain in full detail why both Trfel and Holyflare are scum before the night ends and i will also find the third scum. It's probably geript but some of the votes are so fucking terrible i am not sure. Then you can actually trust my reads. This is not WIFOM.
For someone who yells and complains about how shitty games are here with players who don't care. Doing something as shitty as this and turning an invite game into a total war zone is horrible.
Hf idk what the point was baiting rayn but it's whatever.
The game is unpleasant I should of been mod killed didn't even get a warning so I guess I'm confirmed town at least
1. Says rayn has rayn logic and it's not bad but decides to go against rayn's case and still call me town. TMI.
2. Says trfel looked bad but then says trfel looks a lot more towny but still votes trfel.
3. Says that case from rayn on trfel always existed and that's why he was voting trfel but doesn't make sense just after he says trfel looks more towny.
4. Says votes on me and trfel are a good 2 wagons...? Even though he started to tr trfel and has always tr me.
5. Says votes on me good because I'm scummy but for no reasons.
6. Asks why I haven't backed down on trfel so trefl looks good after flip but I've never been on trfel.
Aka convenient tmi in posts (to tr rayn, me), surface level (no reasons whatsoever) to scum read people, and no logical progression other than opportune wanting to be on current wagons.
On January 17 2016 09:49 Damdred wrote: For someone who yells and complains about how shitty games are here with players who don't care. Doing something as shitty as this and turning an invite game into a total war zone is horrible.
Hf idk what the point was baiting rayn but it's whatever.
The game is unpleasant I should of been mod killed didn't even get a warning so I guess I'm confirmed town at least
Ok, not actually sure what happened with the Palmer wagon that appeared out of nowhere at the end of the day... As for HoleyFlair's little post: Point 1: I said Rayn's logic made sense the way Rayn goes step by step, not that he was necessarily right, but it wasn't a scummy trying to make up something logic. I said that you seemed legitimately upset about having to play another 24 hours and seemed towny. Neither of these have actually been proved true or false yet, so I'm not quite sure how this is TMI since you are both still alive.
Point 2: I said Trifle was the scummiest. Later I did find he was making some better posts, and his case on you had some good points. I said I still felt he was the scummiest though, and that was where I was leaving my vote.
Point 3: When Rayn asked me if I disagreed with his case because I was somewhat less confident in my Trifle vote, I read back through the day and found where he posted about trifle's post that both he and I had issues with (for both some shared and some different reasons). I looked that up because Rayn asked me if I no longer agreed with it. As previously stated, I thought that post was really bad, still did, still do, and just thought he had some better posts after, but those didn't cover up the post.
Point 4: The wagons are on you and Trifle. I think trifle is the most suspicious, but admit that trifle has made some good points on you. If VE actually put his vote where he said it was going, the votes would be tied, and if Rayn kept going in the direction he was, I got the feeling he was actually going to switch to Trifle. Yet even so, my thought was that if you did happen to get lynched and flipped mafia, which I probably would have given like a 30% chance at that point, Trifle would be very towny and that'd be great. If you flipped town, then I'd push even more for Trifle day 2. Also, how can I have always townread you if in Point 3 you point out that I start seeing the logic in some of the points against you made by trifle?
Point 5: I already pointed out that I agreed with some of the points brought by Trifle, which to elaborate were that you were showing 0 motivation to solve the game, making random votes with little reasoning behind them and absolutely 0 followup, and just baiting Rayn. You had 0 interest in finding who was mafia, and just voted however.
Point 6: I swear I remember more, but there was definitely this: "Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel). "
On January 17 2016 09:50 Holyflare wrote: A lot so much is mafia.
1. Says rayn has rayn logic and it's not bad but decides to go against rayn's case and still call me town. TMI.
2. Says trfel looked bad but then says trfel looks a lot more towny but still votes trfel.
3. Says that case from rayn on trfel always existed and that's why he was voting trfel but doesn't make sense just after he says trfel looks more towny.
4. Says votes on me and trfel are a good 2 wagons...? Even though he started to tr trfel and has always tr me.
5. Says votes on me good because I'm scummy but for no reasons.
6. Asks why I haven't backed down on trfel so trefl looks good after flip but I've never been on trfel.
Aka convenient tmi in posts (to tr rayn, me), surface level (no reasons whatsoever) to scum read people, and no logical progression other than opportune wanting to be on current wagons.
Quoting this for future reference. Yes, it's more likely to be seen in my filter than anyone elses. Get over it.
this message goes out to any vigis or cops out there. i don't think my interest level in this game is going to come back because of the way it started/ended; if you think that's going to be a detriment to town going forward or you don't like the reads i am about to post then just shoot or check me. i will flip town, but if questions about the guy not doing enough is gonna ruin town more than shooting a townie then it's probably just worth it to resolve me 1 way or the other.
VE - similar thoughts at similar times and cuz of this post and in particular the question that i think never comes from mafia:
On January 16 2016 01:57 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Trfel
So let's assume for now that ritoky is never getting lynched today. Let's further assume that you could only kill one of three people, and those three people are the MOST active people in the game so far. Which one would you lynch and why?
damdred - shitting on nm for giving me any town cred and being feisty; peacekeeper damdred is mafia damdred
hf - mod shit, can't help himself read, and best case made in the game so far:
On January 17 2016 09:50 Holyflare wrote: A lot so much is mafia.
1. Says rayn has rayn logic and it's not bad but decides to go against rayn's case and still call me town. TMI.
2. Says trfel looked bad but then says trfel looks a lot more towny but still votes trfel.
3. Says that case from rayn on trfel always existed and that's why he was voting trfel but doesn't make sense just after he says trfel looks more towny.
4. Says votes on me and trfel are a good 2 wagons...? Even though he started to tr trfel and has always tr me.
5. Says votes on me good because I'm scummy but for no reasons.
6. Asks why I haven't backed down on trfel so trefl looks good after flip but I've never been on trfel.
Aka convenient tmi in posts (to tr rayn, me), surface level (no reasons whatsoever) to scum read people, and no logical progression other than opportune wanting to be on current wagons.
ace - saw the potential scum slip i saw when reading through the game
On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote: @NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that?
Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him?
Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it?
I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another.
DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage.
And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview.
the fuck? clarify
rayn - cuz i made that 1 read early about the way palmar was talking to rayn and how it was different and how rayn is only mafia if palmar is too, oh and he made a post in all caps.
mafiaish:
NM - see scumslip above, tmi knowing both wagons = town
geript - usually shits town on my face when town, face clear of feces, so mafia lean
probably going to sleep soon then gonna watch my hawks probably lose tomorrow and depending on how much wallowing in despair i do i may or may not be back before the flip.
On January 17 2016 23:33 Holyflare wrote: Eh don't think alot is so mafia-y after reading his VS games. Also jesus how do people play mafia on these badly formatted websites.
Although I've not read his town games so grain of salt.
I wasn't planning on doing much tonight, but I guess I can try to answer questions if anyone has them. I will go to get lunch soon, and I'll be gone for a few hours before End of Night, but otherwise I'll probably be here.
Scum reads you continuously throughout d1 basically. After arguing with rayn says they aren't sure about you anymore and soon afterwards talks to you like you are confirmed town.
The vote on palmar is based on crummy reasoning as well I think by him.
You scum read hf We talk You still read him scum We talk more You want to check his filter bit still,think,it's scum motivated You argue with rayn Say you are unsure about hf either way Then say to hf let's ignore rayn and lynch mafia (implies townread) Then later you say you think hf is town.
So what changed from talking to rayn to that town read or even from talking to me to being unsure to saying tr.
I decided that it would be pretty stupid for Holyflare to play mafia in this way, and that this was more important than the mafia motivation that I was seeing. The mafia motivation also made more sense from a town perspective, the more I thought about it.
My initial read was bad. I mean, do you want me to explain why that read was bad, because I thought that it was obvious?
At that point, I was very confident in Holyflare as town. I felt that the way he came back was very towny (at least, it fit the town perspective for him), and especially how my "Holyflare is mafia" hypothesis relied on Holyflare playing to survive. I wouldn't call nearly being lynched on Day 1 a good survival plan as mafia, if Holyflare actually cared to survive he wouldn't cut it anywhere near that close. Basically if he's mafia, then he has no gameplan at all, so it makes so much more sense for Holyflare to be town.
Palmar seemed like the only alternative. A few people that I trusted wanted to lynch him, so I checked through his filter and didn't see the things that made me townread him earlier. And then VisceraEyes (one of the people who knows Palmar best, at least I'm almost positive of this) said that he'd lynch Palmar, so I voted for him.
It was just me and DoYouHas who were suspicious of NocturneMage, at least that's what I thought at the time. It seems now that maybe Ace would have voted for him as well, I'm not sure. But it obviously wasn't going to happen.
I wasn't aware that raynpelikoneet had a read on Palmar. I only took notice when raynpelikoneet started saying Palmar was town like a minute before the deadline, but he didn't explain why and there wasn't much I could do at that point.
Even so, I had a townread on VisceraEyes, and I don't really trust people's townreads when I don't understand why they're a strong read.
On January 18 2016 05:12 Damdred wrote: Well what do you think of dyh? Do you think his tr on you is good coming from his position?
I'm kind of thinking that he is town because instead of doing nothing (if Holyflare is town) or lynching me (if Holyflare is mafia), he pushed on NocturneMage. There's no reason why this couldn't come from mafia, however the way he does it feels natural and towny to me, and I'm fine with a town lean on him for now.
I do have a problem with Cephiro's town read of me, though...
On January 17 2016 08:18 Cephiro wrote: Question for overall thread sentiment since there's still quite a decent amount of votes on Trfel..
I can see how his cases aren't exactly the most rock solid ones, but am I missing something really obvious? Other than him being somewhat wishywashy, I can't find any ill intent as in intentionally trying to make a player look off worse than what they are. There's a difference between cases not being perfect and cases manipulated with bad intentions, and I honestly don't see the latter when I look at Trfel's play. It doesn't feel coming from mafia at all, being very co-operative, not shitting the thread up while posting a lot (he seems to be trying to create useful discussion or progress the thread in most posts of his?).
So why is he one of the main lynch targets w/ 3 votes?
Going to wait for the NM case(s), and would like to hear more opinions about my case/push on Alot. I still think what I said makes sense, and feel it'd be pretty unnatural for a townie to act as such. Do people really think he has been trying to make things happen instead of contently doing enough to give the impression he's participating?
The things that he says here, while true, are exactly the opposite of why everyone else was scumreading me. It's not like DoYouHas, who townreads me for different reasons, but he townreads me for the exact same things that other people are scumreading me for, with exactly the opposite interpretations. That just seems.... yeah.
I kind of feel like he is town because he really wants to keep his mafia record good, but he's rolled mafia a lot lately and I'm not sure if he suffers from scum fatigue?
And mostly just because every time I townread ritoky, it's wrong T.T But I still want to townread him anyway?
I'm also a bit suspicious of geript, because last time I played with him, he was really really smart. His reads had this special feel to them and they were so insightful. I know he doesn't necessarily play like that every game as town, but here, his reads feel a bit dull, and but he's actually trying. I'm not sure if that makes him mafia or not, but I don't really like it... Thoughts?
I dont know most of you so I have no clue how you play but something isn't right here. Technically I should be one of your first suspects. I "pushed" the Palmar wagon and didn't vote. As scum this would be an easy way for me to blame the Palmar voters and waste Town time debating people that would lead to mislynches.
And yet some of you missed this entirely and are treating me like confirmed Town.
Something is screwed up with the people talking about suspects right now. If I have more time tonight I'll actually read the thread instead of posts that happen when Im around. But please look at the what I said.
On January 18 2016 05:46 Ace wrote: I dont know most of you so I have no clue how you play but something isn't right here. Technically I should be one of your first suspects. I "pushed" the Palmar wagon and didn't vote. As scum this would be an easy way for me to blame the Palmar voters and waste Town time debating people that would lead to mislynches.
And yet some of you missed this entirely and are treating me like confirmed Town.
Something is screwed up with the people talking about suspects right now. If I have more time tonight I'll actually read the thread instead of posts that happen when Im around. But please look at the what I said.
I was waiting to see if you were doing some kind of chezinu rule play because calling me mafia all day and then deciding to not push me because I didn't want to get lynched was pretty scummy.
Also personally I can't wait for rayn to flip mafia, all he's done this game is make a case on me but KNOWING I'm confirmed town and then wanting trfel dead and afking all day into rage quit palmar defence based on 1 post palmar made.
My initial read/gut feeling is he is town but there's limited things to go on.
@Ace if I can finish what I was working on I thought about it but people say give you a bit of time to develop which I'm happy to do until tommorow at least.
On January 18 2016 06:20 Damdred wrote: My initial read/gut feeling is he is town but there's limited things to go on.
@Ace if I can finish what I was working on I thought about it but people say give you a bit of time to develop which I'm happy to do until tommorow at least.
On January 18 2016 07:40 Holyflare wrote: whatevs really, it's like 3 people playing the game lol
well I'm not too active only because of time. But you should try and take the game seriously even if it means ignoring rayne to keep the game going. You keep blowing it off and other people are doing it shitting it up for everyone.
Well one thing hf I was going to comment on the case but then you sort of say it's not as valid.
Which just reading a lot around the lynch was interesting (or leading up to and then after) his filter was more about defending himself than being interested in the lynch or pushing his prefered lynch.
Like if it was hf vs trfel he was ok with either which is fine. But as far as I can tell 0 opinion on palmar(fact checking required) and he never really pushes his prefered lynch.
Also just in general on ace I do sort of town read him now for shitty reasons
On January 17 2016 09:50 Holyflare wrote: A lot so much is mafia.
1. Says rayn has rayn logic and it's not bad but decides to go against rayn's case and still call me town. TMI.
2. Says trfel looked bad but then says trfel looks a lot more towny but still votes trfel.
3. Says that case from rayn on trfel always existed and that's why he was voting trfel but doesn't make sense just after he says trfel looks more towny.
4. Says votes on me and trfel are a good 2 wagons...? Even though he started to tr trfel and has always tr me.
5. Says votes on me good because I'm scummy but for no reasons.
6. Asks why I haven't backed down on trfel so trefl looks good after flip but I've never been on trfel.
Aka convenient tmi in posts (to tr rayn, me), surface level (no reasons whatsoever) to scum read people, and no logical progression other than opportune wanting to be on current wagons.
So I can at least talk with you in case
1) I don't think this point is mafia indicative. I did about the same thing thought it looked like town rayn but called you town. I think both alignments could do this.
2) I like this point, very little re-evaluation as time went with illogical leaps.
4) I like this point
Overall I think most of the points besides one are really good. And I think my thoughts mirror it pretty well.
In case I die though which I hope not I'm enjoying myself and actually reading filters when I usually don't
Asm is a good starting place for tommorow, look at him closely. I've said things hf case is great also.
Ceph is also worth a look, his push on asm looks pretty towny to a degree. But he abandoned almost any interaction with the rest of the thread to try to convince asm he's scum to a point. Also his town read on trfel should be pushed.
The last scum read I have is somewhere in the dyh (trfel town read without explanation lack of some content) and nm ( I have a somewhat towny feel but inability to try to push the lunch he wants through bothered me or even take part in night time reminds me of his scum game)
Rest of people I generally tr but don't be dumb and just follow this.
On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
So Holyflare has been bitching about the days not aligning with him in comparison to the first game. In the first game he had a total of 3 posts in the first 16 hours in the game. In this game he has ~100 posts in 3 days, it makes it ~16.666posts EVERY 12 hours. "Days not aligning".. ?
So Holyflare is just bitching for no reason --> it makes people not wanna play (which is proven alrady). Now he is bitching about people not wanting to play? heh.... well make your own conclusions but the red quoted part is (1) a lie, and (2) a scummy lie.
On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia.
But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous.
##vote trfel
And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel).
See here. Read the green and the red part very carefully: - People not engaging me for non-alingment indicative stuff is scummy. - People engaging me for non-alignment indicative stuff is also scummy.
HOORAY! EVERY ANSWER POSSIBLE IS SCUMMY! Fuck i would do this every time if that worked that way!
More things: - Holyflare will never lynch Palmar in this game as town. Never ever. People can be dumb but there was absolutely no reason to lynch Palmar. Never. I am not going to explain this further, but that is something Holyflare will NEVER EVER DO AS TOWN. NEVER!!!!! - Holyflare has literally zero scumreads come N1. well Alot and me, but they aren't really scumreads if you read his posts on N1. They aren't. Alot is "no longer sure if he is scum but he might be but he might be not idc to check his towngames let's see" and i am "too bad to be in this game" (this is not a scumread people -- it's a policy read). Literally zero scumreads 71 hours into the game! - His case on Alot is bullshit that is just misrepresenting what Alot has said, Alot has NEVER IN THIS GAME TOWNREAD TRFEL!!!!!
Easily mafia. Trfel is scum too.
- Lynches Palmar for making correct conclusions!!!! yes he literally did since he himself said his ritoky case is bullshit (which is another reason he is scum) and he scummed HF who Palmar also scummed (that's not a reason to scumread him). Literally he voted Palmar for only making good posts. - He also made a bullshit case on ritoky -- yes, he himself claimed so!!! And wasted a shitton of time wanting to discuss his case. There is literally zero town motivation to do that. - His town case on Alot at the start of the game is bullshit, as i have already pointed out.
Easily mafia.
PLEASE PEOPLE DO NOT BE FUCKING RETARDS. THESE TWO GUYS ARE SCUM!!! Lynch both with fire, also see how their scumreads on each other magically disappear for no real reason. Noone should think these two guys are not mafia together.
Third scum is prolly geript. His D1 is bad as fuck. He's prolly on Trfel ready to swap if needed. He never pushes the lynch, and wants to lynch Alot instead. That is not town!geript. Town geript CARES ABOUT WHO HE WANTS TO LYNCH AND TRIES TO YELL IT TO PEOPLE!!!! On N1 he says he is going to "catch up" and ends up posting nothing after. No town motivation --> straight out lie.
Probably scum.
Another candidates are VE and DYH.
VE bitches about people sheeping him on HIS lynch and "possibly scumreading them". VE c'mon?!?!?! srsly? You convinced people to lynch someone and when they did you are gonna scumread them for it? Also you should know Palmar better. You really should.
DYH is just doing nothing.
Alot is not mafia. His filter is clear and easily explained. Everything in his filter is easily explained. You guys are prolly dumb enough to lynch him, but please don't, he is not scum.
Cephiro is another mislynch scum are gonna push. Because he focuses on only one thing. Plz Cephiro, take more stances and discuss other things too -- not only the thing you wanna push. Also you are wrong on Alot.
NM is never mafia. ritoky is not mafia. Ace is town too. Idk if i forgot someone but they are town too.
On January 18 2016 08:52 Damdred wrote: In case I die though which I hope not I'm enjoying myself and actually reading filters when I usually don't
Asm is a good starting place for tommorow, look at him closely. I've said things hf case is great also.
Ceph is also worth a look, his push on asm looks pretty towny to a degree. But he abandoned almost any interaction with the rest of the thread to try to convince asm he's scum to a point. Also his town read on trfel should be pushed.
The last scum read I have is somewhere in the dyh (trfel town read without explanation lack of some content) and nm ( I have a somewhat towny feel but inability to try to push the lunch he wants through bothered me or even take part in night time reminds me of his scum game)
Rest of people I generally tr but don't be dumb and just follow this.
Ace the Jailkeeper and NocturneMage the Vanilla Town have been shot! It is now Day 2! You have until Wednesday, Jan 20 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to vote. The vote thread can be found here.
On January 18 2016 09:04 Damdred wrote: Also I'd rather be bad than an asshat who is going around insulting the only people who give a shit about playing
You should probably not talk to me about that. Holyflare would be the right target for it.
On January 18 2016 09:10 Damdred wrote: I spent all day interacting and trying to form reads and actually playing and you came in to just call me bad lol.
Look in the mirror before you talk trash
I am sorry, i just think your reads are bad. Talking with scum usually results in.. well.. gaining nothing.
See here. Read the green and the red part very carefully: - People not engaging me for non-alingment indicative stuff is scummy. - People engaging me for non-alignment indicative stuff is also scummy.
Let's break down this bad boy.
Damdred is a friend outside of the game. I am complaining that I don't want to play and neither him nor ritoky acknowledged me. This seemed like they wanted to avoid me and so I was suspicious.
Trfel never interacted with me at that point he instead MADE A READ. That's not interactive that is making a judgment. Two different situations.
On January 17 2016 01:49 AlotSomuch wrote: Caught up; I assume a smurf is a secondary account for an existing player? I'm less confident on my trifle read right now, as the rest of his play today has been more on point and town. And I actually like his case on HoleyFlair. Still feel he is a good secondary wagon for right now, especially with no vote changer roles. Anyone feel like telling me about Palmira's town/scum tells? And has Cephire even posted?
Here is alot categorically stating that trfel's play has been towny and on point and it makes him totally unsure of his trfel case.
I have voted palmar d1 in many games before as town and he played like crap and afkd and like I said I didn't care. I also started to have a bit of a tr on trfel. You highlight him admitting his post is part fluff and I think that was quite honest and towny.
Rayn I'm tired of your victim blaming bull shit. Yeh it's the weekend and I'm more free than my 0 Internet work days but I wanted to spend the weekend with my gf since it's the only time I get to see her each week instead of staring at my phone all day.
Yes I didn't want to play in the first game OR this one.
Yes I qq'd.
NO that did not cause people to rage quit. This fucking reroll did. I did not cause people to post in this game from obs. O did not cause artanis to post in this thread.
All my posts I made are in game information and those people act of their own free will. I am the victim of their stupidity and yet you blame me repeatedly because you have a screw loose. You couldn't fucking handle me being town. You said this game was invalid if I was town wich I probably was because of artanis. Now you have changed your petty shit tune to call me mafia. You are pathetic. Everything is about you and everything that doesn't go your way offends you to your deepest core and it's sad that you can't treat this game like a game instead of yelling and complaining when someone doesn't play the way you like.
Maybe you should grow up, maybe this isn't the right environment for you, maybe you're mafia. Either way you are a sad sad man to play this way and effectively not play on purpose because you have a problem with the way I played.
yes you broke the re-roll regardless of your affiliation and yes i don't give any fucks what happens in this game. do whatever you want to, you had a chance to tell you don't wanna play since you posted in the other thread BEFORE the re-roll. if you can't understand that then whatever. why od YOU think this game is fucking 20 pages and me and you have the half of the posts in it?
I actually think rayn is mafia for this case since he made this point:
So Holyflare is just bitching for no reason --> it makes people not wanna play (which is proven alrady). Now he is bitching about people not wanting to play? heh.... well make your own conclusions but the red quoted part is (1) a lie, and (2) a scummy lie.
On January 15 2016 16:54 Holyflare wrote: Basically I did what geript said and elongated the whine to fulfill my dastardly plan of gathering information. Also because I was a tad annoyed.
Will be around for like 30 mins while I travel so this is your chance to talk to me.
He knows I did it for a reason. He's quoted this post many times. Yet now it makes me scummy for elongating it? I literally said I did it to get reads but he's repeatedly ignoring it to push it as scummy.
So Holyflare has been bitching about the days not aligning with him in comparison to the first game. In the first game he had a total of 3 posts in the first 16 hours in the game. In this game he has ~100 posts in 3 days, it makes it ~16.666posts EVERY 12 hours. "Days not aligning".. ?
So Holyflare is just bitching for no reason --> it makes people not wanna play (which is proven alrady). Now he is bitching about people not wanting to play? heh.... well make your own conclusions but the red quoted part is (1) a lie, and (2) a scummy lie.
I never bitched about anyone sheeping me. Someone asked about ritoky being on the Palmar wagon and I said, simply "I think ritoky was sheeping me based on his posts". Never did I say anything about scumreading anyone for it, and never did I complain about it. Rayn is making shit up.
Lies about me, trfel case doesn't make sense, lies about ve, has 4 mafia candidates but criticised my post yesterday for having lots of mafia when it didn't.
What else is rayn guilty of? Oh yeh constantly misrepresnting every post I make.
Oh right, lying about things. Nobody has stated they aren't playing because of me apart from him and he has a large filter.
I don't think you are mafia anymore. You respond in a normal "i didn't even try to understand what he was saying" VE way which you normally do to me -- basically you just say stuff out of spite and call me scum because i entertained the possibility of you being mafia.
But whatevs, if you wanna vote for me then do. Just read my filter after. People tend to not do that very often. I could point to a certain "Lynch Palmar" train that was going on a while ago.
I just didn't have enough time to look through everything I wanted to. I wanted to hold my shot and get more time but I figured I'd need to claim my role to avoid being lynched, and so I felt that I needed to shoot.
On January 18 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: I don't think you would of been lynched today trfel. You softed super hard at night.
Maybe my trfel reading is getting better at least
To be honest, that was why I didn't directly ask you about NocturneMage. In retrospect that was probably not the best decision, I was probably already caught or wasn't going to be.
What was it that I did? Just trying to figure things out, or did I slip?
On January 18 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: I don't think you would of been lynched today trfel. You softed super hard at night.
Maybe my trfel reading is getting better at least
To be honest, that was why I didn't directly ask you about NocturneMage. In retrospect that was probably not the best decision, I was probably already caught or wasn't going to be.
What was it that I did? Just trying to figure things out, or did I slip?
When I was questioning you to shore up my read you basically told me to stop and talk about someone else.
To me it's a clear indication you weren't scared of the vig and had a trump card
Meh, I really don't know about raynpelikoneet. I would instinctively think that he wouldn't use this emotional mixture as mafia, but then again, the only game I played with him where he was mafia I didn't actually read the thread until he replaced out...
I'm probably going to take a break tonight and think about this some more tomorrow. I had a list of four "scummy people": Cephiro, geript, AlotSomuch, and NocturneMage, so I guess that leaves me with three. I guess I should add raynpelikoneet to the list, and I guess I'll check Holyflare again just because he's Holyflare
Side note, is VisceraEyes actually super town? Because I was a bit suspicious of him too. His activity seems a bit higher than normal (barring perhaps Assassination Mafia), but the way he treated his Palmar read was extremely strange to me. Tonally he seems towny, but I've read his town as towny when he was mafia before. So I'm not so sure about him.
maybe i had bad reads or whatever shit but don't actually take it kindly when you use three weeks to ask players to play and then someone decides to quit because they are too bad to play as scum and another person decides to use questionable -- out of game things that affect to people's thinking to "play" the game from the get-go when they had a chance to just not play at all in a game where they wanted not to in the first place...
Not to mention i get called trash after that for the very same person. wow such rewarding.
I don't really have anything against you Holyflare outside mafia games but meh... i just don't think you were playing mafia at all and then calling me trash and not deserving to be in the game is just.. well it goes over my capabilities of understanding. Hopefully you get it some day.
Now i don't have to look at this thread anymore. Good for my mental health.
Not really I'm lying but jesus dude, you just ignored everything I said and made up lies to make me feel bad for not wanting to play a game I didn't want to play in. It was aggravating as fuck.
I wasn't that sure, he has a scum tell that he's not done yet I'm presuming because it's quite a common scum trait. But I've not read his town game and can't be fucked. Geript is being lazy, buddy buddy and hasn't done anything at all, he made a post on alot and called alot mafia for having the same reads as himself.
yeah for me it was a culmination of things that kinda led to not being invested. i was very into the last game and then the effort i put in felt wasted, i was pissy because the game was ruined because someone just doesn't like playing an alignment, i was wrong about pretty much everything last game, then we get here and got people in shit moods, randoms posting in the thread, and just rampant inactivity and fighting....i mean it was good for my alignment in terms of winning but it was not pleasant in the slightest to be a part of.
only thing on the mod end is there probably should have been a pm sent to notify of the restart and say "plz respond within x time if you do not want to be in the restart" and maybe consider subbing hf there because of exigent circumstances, but overall i don't blame you and there wasn't much you could do about what happened, sometimes the mafia gods just fuck you over.
I considered sending everyone PM's, but I figured restarting the game as quick as possible was the best way to reduce the annoyance from the aborted game, plus it could delay the start of the new game when everyone that signed up should have enough time from game start that an additional 24h shouldn't matter.
Not voted (1): Damdred Currently, Palmar is being lynched. You have until Sunday, Jan 17 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), or to lynch someone. Voting is mandatory and done in this thread.
lol not even close
GIVE THEM THE STATS ritoky cepiro goat and whoever else
hf never at any point contacted the mods about not wanting to play the game + obviously to us had time to both see that the game was restarting and at least see that he'd received a pm, if not actually read it
we def prob should have sent out confirmation pms and i know that i at least will in the future regardless of how soon this was after the first game and the indisputable fact that every single one of you who was in both games would have still been playing d1 had the first game not been aborted. we should have taken into account the fact that some of you might have had motivation issues because of the first game
nevertheless, there was NO REASON for ANYONE to assume that hf's complaints in thread were legitimate here. he is more than aware to contact the hosts if he has an issue rather than throwing a fit in-thread with the expectation that any mod action would be taken. this is a game of deception. the bleed over from the obs qt should never have happened, and although i'm not sure that people still wouldn't have been (incorrectly) confused there, it certainly didn't help
simply put do not assume before a host posts that anything said in-thread is true. this is mafia. @.@
(also ftr lex still doesn't think we should have sent pms lol after looking this over to make sure my bitchiness is within acceptable levels)
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
hf will you address your bads pls it's very important 2 me
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
This kind of speculation is not modconfirming anyone as town by any means. You're speculating whether I would've posted it if you were mafia or town; I would've in either case. The reason I posted it was to prevent people from outside the game from continuing to post inside the game.
As for requesting bans for them, I feel that's way out of proportion. This game has been such a mess that the only ban I'm requesting is for Rayn due to posting his role PM which isn't close to being a gray area/excusable.
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
yeah this sort of thinking from players in general is a bit ridiculous tbh. the host message would always have occurred because of the obs spam. period. you people need to redefine what "mod-confirmed" means because this is never a mod-confirmation here and is only player speculation
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.
Shadow Game was pretty high quality
Yeah, I think so too and that is pretty much the only other invite game that I remember.
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.
Shadow Game was pretty high quality
I didn't play so I doubt it. I am literally highest quality.
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
hf will you address your bads pls it's very important 2 me
I badz but you got lynched so you more badz. When you are town you need to look towny and play to the people in the game. It's not all about being wrong.
On January 18 2016 23:53 Damdred wrote: The last invite game I was in was fun. And before the rwroll this one would of been good I think.
Idk what happened hf tried to get under rayns skin, rayn took it out on the game. We lynched palmar
It was sadness
Yeh well initially I didn't mind but then rayn told me he made a case on me because he knew I was town and wanted me out of the game and then changed somehow to me being mafia. Aka wasting my life.
A bit disappointed to see things end the way they did and some people react the way they did, don't think I need to beat a dead horse.
Gameplay wise...at least I was right with rayn/HF being town on town at first glance but felt the interactions were starting to become a bit distraction so I deliberately tried to play around them. I think I realise why DYH saw it as scummy though.
Really would like to know why Trfel shot me or why he thought I was the best shot when looking at the votes there were several better shots and other lurkers (i.e. geript). I was unable to play all evening (night phase) because of work so if that's why I was shot, I'll post something next time if I'm getting slammed, but if it was for my day 1 play then I really don't know what to say. I know he was unable to read me for most of Dark Tournament so I did have in the back of my mind he might have just been unable to read me this game.
Trfel being vig, obviously means he knows he's the second wagon, but especially given the votes - and Ace pointed it out quite nicely in obs - Cephiro was a much better one that case on scumbuddy ASM was pretty bad and had many faults and I would have pushed him day 2 had I not been shot.
DYH, I couldn't tell if it was coming from scum or town, and I knew he was probably fear reading me because of Newbie 18. I'm guessing that influenced his vote prior to shennanies.
ritoky's last post was pretty bad, scumslips or interpretations of them aren't NAI, I probably would have called him out on that. doubt I'd have gotten ASM until later on.
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
yeah this sort of thinking from players in general is a bit ridiculous tbh. the host message would always have occurred because of the obs spam. period. you people need to redefine what "mod-confirmed" means because this is never a mod-confirmation here and is only player speculation
The number of times the phrase "mod-confirmed" comes up for completely baseless reasons is a bit annoying. For instance, in the recent newbie game someone mentioned a player was "mod-confirmed" because they were hospitalized and replaced via PM or some nonsense like that. Half the time people don't even believe it, but they push it for convenience.
If someone has a concern about mod actions revealing the alignment of a player, they should almost always bring it up via PMs to the host, rather than present it as some sort of "case" in the thread.
that said, thanks to the mods for hosting, I've been told a few times it can be thankless sometimes, and I can see why now.
also ASM, I'm with Damdred here, not all games are close to being like this. Modkills even aren't all that common when you consider the number of games played on the site.
also on the topic of Coagulation or people who will not play as either alignment it boggles my mind as to why people won't just grow a pair and policy lynch on TL to at least deter others from not playing especially when an environment is ripe for shenanigans at end of cycle or it's evident that scum will keep someone like him around until he becomes a detriment late game.
This game, policy lynching HF was a slightly different scenario since the issue here was not lurking but I know that was brought up in the obs QT as well.
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
hf will you address your bads pls it's very important 2 me
I badz but you got lynched so you more badz. When you are town you need to look towny and play to the people in the game. It's not all about being wrong.
On January 19 2016 00:40 Holyflare wrote: Because that wastes 72 hours to lynch a coin flip and they are often town and it's not worth the change if you can just not play with them.
Yes, you can policy lynch them all you want - it won't change a goddamn thing and in the specific game it gets you one step closer to losing if they are town which is the case most of the time.
I agree with jat. An invite game shouldnt be terrible people just made it terrible. You just dont fucking accept if you dont want to play. ITs not like theres any prestige being invited anyway. Literally half the community was in it lol.
Theres no obligation its not like you were picked out of 100 candidates. Its like 13-20 people of 40 candidate some of which are coag
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.
wtf is an invite game this is the only one I ever saw. sick sample size
Honestly if you want a good game you should just host and exclude people as you see fit(i asume thats in the rules of hosting) So basically only im willing to do it.
On January 19 2016 01:15 sicklucker wrote: I agree with jat. An invite game shouldnt be terrible people just made it terrible. You just dont fucking accept if you dont want to play. ITs not like theres any prestige being invited anyway. Literally half the community was in it lol.
Theres no obligation its not like you were picked out of 100 candidates. Its like 13-20 people of 40 candidate some of which are coag
Lol, why do you think lex and i were hosting? More seriously, I think both camps are right. I do think that people feel more obligated to accept when personally asked to join an invite game by someone, but you and jat are right to say that this feeling is illogical. If you don't have time, don't play. It's the same to me as, if you don't feel like you can play both alignments, don't /in. Everyone knows what they're getting into when they sign up.
Also @kita...yeah. It's a little silly how often people blather on about mod confirmations, and how often hosts have to consider what an action will appear to be even if it's not that at all to someone with limited or no information. I honestly don't actually care if people use faulty logic for their reads. We all do at one time or another. It's only a problem when they use it as an excuse to break the rules and ruin the game for all the other players.
It was as disappointing for me to see behavior like this from the so-called "best" of TL as no doubt it was for the players who were actually looking forward to this game. I just hope the people who need to take something from how it played out do.
Notes for future rsoultin hosting: 1) re-confirmations if necessary 2) be more clear with host posts (I actually think that simply saying "anyone who isn't a player or a host should stop posting in an on-going game" might have prevented some of the nuttiness here, but hindsight and all that.)
That said, also open to any other suggestions. I know hosts can't control players but I can't help but feel that we probably could have done something to keep this better contained.
Unfortunate. I feel for Lex/Tina having to deal with all this to be quite fair.
Mage, I think I already went over with you regarding your day 1 play, I can see why you avoided HF v rayn after your initial townread but you should have at least tried to give a further attempt at the mess because I think from what we discussed that is part of the reason DYH was scumreading you and Trfel for whatever reason wasn't buying your initial townread. It was on you to clear that up - you called Trfel for accountability but if you had entertained the possibility of him being town, and it looked to me you did, you should have cleared that up.
I don't know if it was the primary reason Trfel shot you but it might have cleared up some confusion there, otherwise people didn't seem like they wanted to lynch you based on your responses in thread and it seemed obvious that you were honestly giving everything a go and trying to think things through. Ultimately you were just unfortunate that Trfel was the vig.
Same to what a few others said, ALotSoMuch, this is not the norm for this site. The next newbie is up, looks like Smurf is going up soon, and Greymist's game has one spot open left for the taking (see here) so if those interest any of you, I think your experience in those games will be better. And Grey always has different mechanics but that will be part of the fun in his games.
Yeh Tina, #2 is about the only real suggestion I had, directly addressing the Obs QT posters might have helped, but honestly people shouldn't have used it as an excuse to act out/ruin the game as either alignment. Just my opinion there.
On January 18 2016 22:41 Palmar wrote: Ok warning, rambling rant.
The thing is, people put completely unreasonable expectations into invite games. Invite games tend to be bad because it's usually filled with a bunch of people who mostly just show up because of the prestige of having been invited. I'd much rather play with 8 newbies who still think lying as town is a good idea than a bunch of salty, lazy veterans.
I get it, rayn wanted to have a nice game. He wanted a game where he could play with everyone actually trying. But the problem is, you simply cannot have such a game on demand. It's basically impossible.
A player who signs up for a game does so because he genuinely wants to play. A player who is invited is mostly just dragged into the game.
Yes, the overall quality of the people invited to invite games tends to be relatively high, but half of us have obligations or are afk so the end result usually is worse than when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people who for some reason have still not been added to the invite lists.
I also just don't like the exclusivity, I think the game is way too complicated for anyone to make a call on who should be invited and who shouldn't.
Let's not do too many of these in the future pls.
Apart from this failure - how do you come to this conclusion? I think invite games are a pretty good (if not the only) solution if you are tired of people signing up and not playing the game because you cannot avoid those people otherwise. For example (and I don't think using this one is mean): if coag signs up for a game I immediately think twice about joining it - not because I hate him or anything but because I know he will be dead weight regardless of his alignment. You can't realistically keep him from joining because wisdom of the crowds is not really a thing. So you have to pray he doesn't join the games you want to play in. Sure there might be problems when people have an ego and aren't invited but you have to keep in mind that the one who organizes the game is in charge of the invites (and rightfully so) so the choice of players will always be subjective. This is not an "official TL game for the best players". This is a round of mafia someone decided to organize to have a game with the people he wants to play with.
It's just an experience thing. My overall feeling is that none of the invite games I've played in have been anywhere near the quality of the good normal games that I've played.
wtf is an invite game this is the only one I ever saw. sick sample size
@NM, I think where I went wrong reading you is that the only time I've seen you as town was when you replaced in D2 and you already had a strong read. I wasn't giving you fair context. Picking out mafia was very hard this D1 so my thinking about your townie habits being only for show is all undercut because you were probably feeling the same uncertainty I was. The only legitimate point I think I had was is that it is strange that you would townread HF and then just let Rayn and Palmar sit on him without any action from you.
@ritoky, you didn't talk me out of me by telling me to shoot you, I wasn't so confident in shooting you because I know that you care about your mafia record. I realize that this reason has many potential flaws, but I still didn't want to shoot you because of it.
I'm going to go ahead and say it. Even though ultimately rayn and HF's little tizzy ended up ending this game, I for one appreciate the fact that the gamma-irradiated profanity monster that rayn usually becomes was able to lie dormant for this game. :D
On January 18 2016 22:43 Holyflare wrote: Of course you should, I only agreed to replace into the first game because it was starting and I was asked to /in last second. If it could have been that you got more people for a reroll I would have gone on the replacement list again.
I also didn't have time to see a reroll and contact you since I had my pm already.
Either way I stuck it out and people spammed the thread from obs and while the host message wasn't intended to be directed towards me it wouldn't have necessarily been posted if I was mafia. Rayn sure took my posts and the obs spam and the host message to mean I was town at least. You should be requesting bans for those people.
huh, I didn't see what happened (haven't read this game) but as a general rule it's super super unacceptable for observers to post in the game thread. Like that shit should NOT be allowed in ongoing games, at all. As a host you gotta pm people or post in the thread and let them know not to do this
On January 19 2016 06:23 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm going to go ahead and say it. Even though ultimately rayn and HF's little tizzy ended up ending this game, I for one appreciate the fact that the gamma-irradiated profanity monster that rayn usually becomes was able to lie dormant for this game. :D
so... this was a "Good" rayn performance then kekeke
On January 19 2016 01:15 sicklucker wrote: I agree with jat. An invite game shouldnt be terrible people just made it terrible. You just dont fucking accept if you dont want to play. ITs not like theres any prestige being invited anyway. Literally half the community was in it lol.
Theres no obligation its not like you were picked out of 100 candidates. Its like 13-20 people of 40 candidate some of which are coag
Lol, why do you think lex and i were hosting? More seriously, I think both camps are right. I do think that people feel more obligated to accept when personally asked to join an invite game by someone, but you and jat are right to say that this feeling is illogical. If you don't have time, don't play. It's the same to me as, if you don't feel like you can play both alignments, don't /in. Everyone knows what they're getting into when they sign up.
Also @kita...yeah. It's a little silly how often people blather on about mod confirmations, and how often hosts have to consider what an action will appear to be even if it's not that at all to someone with limited or no information. I honestly don't actually care if people use faulty logic for their reads. We all do at one time or another. It's only a problem when they use it as an excuse to break the rules and ruin the game for all the other players.
It was as disappointing for me to see behavior like this from the so-called "best" of TL as no doubt it was for the players who were actually looking forward to this game. I just hope the people who need to take something from how it played out do.
Notes for future rsoultin hosting: 1) re-confirmations if necessary 2) be more clear with host posts (I actually think that simply saying "anyone who isn't a player or a host should stop posting in an on-going game" might have prevented some of the nuttiness here, but hindsight and all that.)
That said, also open to any other suggestions. I know hosts can't control players but I can't help but feel that we probably could have done something to keep this better contained.
On January 19 2016 06:23 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm going to go ahead and say it. Even though ultimately rayn and HF's little tizzy ended up ending this game, I for one appreciate the fact that the gamma-irradiated profanity monster that rayn usually becomes was able to lie dormant for this game. :D
These two posts somewhat summarize why I didn't accept my invite.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SASHazn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FdD1uYX.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/sites/default/files/files/styles/large/public/field/image/Silence_does_not_equal_consent.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/leo.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/XO1adfo.gif)
![[image loading]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/8miYQYfpol1qU/200_s.gif)
![[image loading]](http://comps.canstockphoto.com/can-stock-photo_csp1190748.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i67.tinypic.com/2mi2blg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AHb1DJSJ56E/TnQeQvXZT8I/AAAAAAAABb8/YatFvCiLg_E/s1600/Taint.png)
