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On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB
Here's mderg's post in question.
Fidei, you are ignoring the first part:
You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought
And focusing on the second part:
You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game
You are nitpicking this part which can be true or not depending on how you interpret it.
But really the important part is the first part which you seem to be ignoring.
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GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective?
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Separate point - these comments were made at GB.
On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote:
Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage.
On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now.
We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game.
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I think a common theme of all the scumreads on mderg - not just Fidei's tbh - is that he plays too passive whereas mderg argues that's his base style.
I'm going to hit the database, read 4 games, 2 town/2 scum and see for myself.
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On January 06 2016 22:13 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB Here's mderg's post in question. Fidei, you are ignoring the first part: And focusing on the second part: You are nitpicking this part which can be true or not depending on how you interpret it. But really the important part is the first part which you seem to be ignoring.
Hmm. I can see your point, but Let me go back to the series of posts again. I think you might be reading too much into that first point. You're right, it could be mderg implying that there are all these issues with the read that you and I came up with now. But at the same time, it could in my view just as easily be a throwaway comment with no deeper thought behind it.
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On January 03 2016 01:04 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:58 GlowingBear wrote:On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB His other reads were town reads dude, why would I take that into consideration when deciding who to lynch now? Rofl What you're doing is basically taking a look at a list with his reads and taking the one that's most convenient for you.
Phone posting so can't consolidate, but this is his second post. Will post third in one sec.
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On January 06 2016 22:28 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 01:04 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:58 GlowingBear wrote:On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB His other reads were town reads dude, why would I take that into consideration when deciding who to lynch now? Rofl What you're doing is basically taking a look at a list with his reads and taking the one that's most convenient for you. Phone posting so can't consolidate, but this is his second post. Will post third in one sec.
See 1162. That's what I am trying to counter.
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On January 03 2016 01:09 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 01:05 Fidei86 wrote:
Irish's reads were:
He sets out his reads at #427, which are:
Scott scum
NM town
GB town
Kush scum
mderg town
Kmatt town
Fidei null
Shape town
Gigya scum
Onegu null/town
Not really sure which reads you think GB missed out mderg? Gonna check your filter now for your progression on GB. I'm not saying he missed any reads. He simply picked one out and decides to vote that one. Without giving it any further thought (aside from "kush is probably town")
Third post.
Kush, I read your point as being "mderg was implying that there were a number of problems with the way that GB used Irish's reads." That is a possible interpretation of the 'first' section you flagged. But I think the more likely interpretation is that it's just a throwaway line designed to try and undermine GB, with no particular underlying rationale beyond "you didn't give all the reads".
If mderg had thought of the deeper points, I don't see why he wouldn't have made them then. And that makes me thinks it's an attempt to fabricate a scum read, rather than a townie attempt to gain information.
And this is all the more important because it's when mderg starts voting GB.
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I think I have responded to that now? O.o
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Okay, let me phrase this a different way then. Because somewhere along the way something isn't getting through here.
GB "thinks" Noon is town and PoEs GigyaS from that list of reads and IN THE SAME POST lists reasons for his prior scumreads on Onegu and mderg.
Those assertions were made in the same post. So how is mderg's assertion that "not giving it any further thought" invalid? How is that scummy?
If GB had given it "thought" he would have picked a read that he had a stronger basis for a scumread.
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Reading World Cup Mafia (mislynched day 2), Storm Mafia 2 (mislynched day 2), and New Year's Party Mafia (endgamed night 4) filters for mderg.
All three town games.
WC, a lot of defending and debunking of scumreads. That pattern is similar to here. Does not push any scumreads hard.
Storm, I'm not seeing pushes at all, and town play is pretty passive in that game.
New Year's Party Mafia, push on liancourt is limited to a few quotes. Does show a bit more towniness in lylo when he tries to analyse the remaining players.
So after reading these games I don't see the current town game terribly outside the bounds of his town play. Lot of one-liners in those games too.
Moving to the scumgames.
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On January 06 2016 20:52 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 17:16 GiygaS wrote:
Like I'm right that fdei's post could easily be from a town if GB is town right? Chainsaw is only a scumtell if the person they are defending is scum. But then who's scum? I have solid town reads on noon, kmatt and nm. Which means I'm wrong about one of those people or the scum team is 3 of GB, fdei, ff and mderg. Makes a lot more sense for the first 3 to be a scum team than the last one to be on a team with GB and fdei after fdei's post. Fideis case is still a chainsaw defense even if gb isn't scum. Also it's full of misrepresentations. Gb your reason for voting gigyas was bad and scummy. There's other Scummy stuff in forgetting. What Seals the deal is the general lack of towniness.
Forgetting stuff I do as town, Mafia and.... Somethig that I just forgot.
And activity drop happens all the time especially now that I got back to work.
Check haunted mansion mini Mafia if you need proof
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On January 06 2016 21:20 nooniansoong wrote:
Irish said he had to re-read and reasses therefore his scum reads were going to change
Reassessing scum reads doesn't mean he would drop them, necessarily. Why are you pushing this information so hard?
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On January 06 2016 22:08 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 21:10 Fidei86 wrote:On January 06 2016 10:08 NocturneMage wrote:
Alright, that second point is bad. Wow. I just don't understand this pov. GB said that he thought there was something to be gained by looking at Irish's scum reads. GB then accurately recited Irish's scum reads. Mderg then basically said that GB had done so in a misleading way. But mderg didn't follow up that point by saying "oh yeah you actually can tell something from the other reads Irish had". It isn't like he was trying to make a nuanced argument based on that point, he just shit on GB fullstop. And even if he had, it doesn't matter anyway because GB wasn't purporting to talk about all of Irish's reads in the first place. To me, that is mderg trying to scum GB for bad reasons, at best. And that is following on from his GB read which honestly has made no sense to me the entire game. It wasn't the recitation of the scum reads that was a problem, it was how it was being used. I had the same problem. You're confusing use with intention. It wasn't confirming the scumreads, it was what he did with the Irish scumreads. Those are two separate points. And GB not purporting to talk.....he didn't need to.
What did I do that was wrong?
Why do townies get shot, NM?
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On January 06 2016 22:13 NocturneMage wrote:
GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective?
Why the Bolded is a Mafia indicative assertion? Explain to me how that assertion can't come from a town and why that assertion is a consequence of a scum mindset.
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On January 06 2016 23:12 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 21:20 nooniansoong wrote:
Irish said he had to re-read and reasses therefore his scum reads were going to change Reassessing scum reads doesn't mean he would drop them, necessarily. Why are you pushing this information so hard?
Um because it is your only current scumread with actual reasoning behind it. So I don't have a lot to push lol.
We can argue in vain about how sure he was about his reads. All we know is "reread and reasses" indicates he had some extent of doubt about his reads. That doubt was not acknowledged by you and it makes your reasoning for voting gigyas that much weaker.
People have answered your questions. You have done nothing with the answers. I'd like you to make some content other than defending yourself.
You could give your thoughts about fidei's case since that seems to be the hot topic right now.
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On January 06 2016 22:18 NocturneMage wrote:Separate point - these comments were made at GB. Show nested quote +On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote:
Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage. Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now. We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game.
ROFL now you're just full of shit. So now that Onegu is town his "meta" on me is accurate? Give me a break m
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On January 06 2016 23:20 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 22:13 NocturneMage wrote:
GB in that argument said he was "confident" (paraphrasing) mderg was scum and made a previous argument on Onegu (now flipped town) that he is stating something that he cannot possibly believe in. This is a mafia indicative assertion.
The argument against GigyaS at that time was NK WIFOM.
In stating his scumreads GB votes GigyaS from the off when he had two reads with - in his view - stronger basis.
Why is what mderg did unfathomable/unbelievable/impossible/whatever word you want from a town perspective? Why the Bolded is a Mafia indicative assertion? Explain to me how that assertion can't come from a town and why that assertion is a consequence of a scum mindset.
You misunderstood.
I'm not saying that was mafia indicative for you. You are making an assertion on Onegu that he cannot believe what he is possibly saying. The argument you are making on Onegu is a mafia indicative assertion on Onegu.
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On January 06 2016 23:23 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 22:18 NocturneMage wrote:Separate point - these comments were made at GB. On December 31 2015 04:11 Onegu wrote:
Also meta doesnt work on me GB you have played with me long enough to know this. I purposely change how I play both alignments periodically so I cant be meta read. And the fact that you are trying to meta read me is complete garbage. On January 03 2016 00:50 Onegu wrote:
GB not deciding to defend himself just saying it is a town case from kmatt is really telling.
And yes I will be tunneled on to fword dude and GB until they are dead, I am dead or it is lylo then I will reevaluate in lylo. Tunnel for now. We know Onegu's flipped green, so at the very least these are honest. On the first one, I trust that players know their own meta and own methods of solving the game. ROFL now you're just full of shit. So now that Onegu is town his "meta" on me is accurate? Give me a break m
No, this statement does not indicate he's metaing you. He's arguing that people should not meta him.
Those are two separate points.
The argument is not YOUR meta.
The statement is what YOU are doing about HIS meta.
What Onegu's flip does do here is show that his interpretion of his own reads on people is accurate.
The reason I brought that up was because I also want other people who know Onegu better to discuss this.
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On January 06 2016 23:20 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 23:12 GlowingBear wrote:On January 06 2016 21:20 nooniansoong wrote:
Irish said he had to re-read and reasses therefore his scum reads were going to change Reassessing scum reads doesn't mean he would drop them, necessarily. Why are you pushing this information so hard? Um because it is your only current scumread with actual reasoning behind it. So I don't have a lot to push lol. We can argue in vain about how sure he was about his reads. All we know is "reread and reasses" indicates he had some extent of doubt about his reads. That doubt was not acknowledged by you and it makes your reasoning for voting gigyas that much weaker. People have answered your questions. You have done nothing with the answers. I'd like you to make some content other than defending yourself. You could give your thoughts about fidei's case since that seems to be the hot topic right now.
NO
IT DOESN'T MAKE IT WEAKER
BECAUSE REASSESSING DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN DROPPING
And as soon as people told me I was WIFOM I've reevaluated and dropped it.
Now I'm conscious about Giygas and I think he looks scummy for all the reasons I've brouhht AND IF YOU THINK I'M PUSHING GIYGAS BECAUSE OF THE NIGHTKILL YOU ARE NOT READING MY FUCKING POSTS
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EPT
