Really Small Mafia II

On December 12 2015 11:56 Damdred wrote:
Kinda want to lynch everyone who hasn't posted now... But id lynch rels first

On December 12 2015 13:52 RtaniSoul wrote:
*sanctioned message by both heads

We are seeking a third head. Please apply.

Unless your name is DP and your nose is firmly up everyone's ass already.

Carry on ^^

On December 12 2015 15:03 RtaniSoul wrote:


Game?

I've been mislynched once on this site, in large part because I failed to convince geript that DP was a skeezy scumbucket with a geript in his pocket. Artie remembers Imperial and remembers a more aggressive DP. I glanced through the town game before that just in case replacing in might have had an effect on DP's play, but no dice. Aggressive there right out the starting gate.

These are only a few games, but given they support the perception we already have...

Where you getting this from, rayn?

-waves at DP- Because pointing out that you're buddying people is definitely not worth mentioning or anything ^^ We up for a round two?

On December 12 2015 15:18 Damdred wrote:
Eh screw it I'm awake so I'll post.

Rs/Art go after Darth in what amounts to there opening post and follow up post. While I don't think its out of the scope of what they could do as scum going after dp so fast is something I don't really consider either of them to do.

It seems to me its more motivated at this instance coming from town trying to catch someone on a meta irregularity that they feel. It isn't quite the gorcha moment to total town read but it makes sense and fives me somewhat town feelings motive wise.

On December 13 2015 00:48 Rels wrote:
I will vote him as long as he doesnt do something

On December 13 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:

1 - I explained why I thought that: I think townies are more likely to admit they have null reads, especially since there is only a few pages.

2 - yep - it has nothing to do with who they called out. Obviously if dp flips scum arsoultin is super likely town. But without association, I don't think what they did is enough to find them town.

3 - if left alone, scums will either hide between inactive or push mislynch on inactive. I push useless people to play so that can't happen

On December 13 2015 00:58 Damdred wrote:
Rayn I know we are both on the what is rels doing wagon.

Could you tell me your thoughts on gm? And you tr Darth correct?

On December 13 2015 00:58 Rels wrote:

I don't care: if Marv doesn't do anything until tomorrow he's most likely scum.

P.S. Thanks rayn! I'll take a look at your link...later? Maybe when I'm waiting at the airport to pick up Lex. Also, just to be clear, my point was the buddying and not the aggression...I am well aware that DP can be aggressive as either alignment, and we are both aware that Imperial is different, which is why I looked up the other town game (Avogadro, to be precise). So let me rephrase. Buddying without pushing anything early game is what caught our attention.

On December 13 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:

Yep. They rephrased something rayn answered entirely already.

On December 13 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:

Explain the post above then. Cause to me:
- they say X
- you say X is not scum indicative
- they say "let me rephrase it: we meant X"

On December 13 2015 02:24 Damdred wrote:
I'm still unsure why this makes him scum? Why is rephrasing a point that you think is strong (but they will check on) scum indicative. And I don't want to say why I think they rephrased anyway.

On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.

On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
First I will say that, while I find some conduct of Ryan suspicious, this results from inconsistencies in his behavior. I thought a lot of what he was doing seemed towny, however there are a few things that give me pause.

The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however.

The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion.

Finally, I thought back to Ryan's other posts. They all seemed very towny so I thought to myself: "maybe I'm just chainsaw ing Ryan here, creating a read on him out of spite." Then I noticed 2 minor things which makes me think, perhaps, he could be mafia.

First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.

Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.

There are my current thoughts, more to come.

Not everything he has posted really makes sense, but he is aggressive and is able to change tack really quickly. I also kinda like the dissonance between what he is saying and where he is voting. Like that is something really obvious that scum would avoid IMO and reads like someone who does not give a fuck.

Does not give a fuck = Good

On December 12 2015 23:18 Rels wrote:

Another thing from DP I don't like. He says "rayn is town"; nobody questions him about it; 6 minutes later after rayn ignores this post, he posts an explanation. I could see him being scum waiting for someone to ask for his explanation, then posting it anyway.

On December 12 2015 23:24 Rels wrote:

I think GM is town. I think townies are more likely to admit they don't have an opinion on several people.

On December 13 2015 19:43 DarthPunk wrote:


No I have not seen his scum play. It is based on him not giving a fuck what he looks like. I think that is a townie trait more than a scum trait.

On December 13 2015 19:41 Rels wrote:

rayn can you confirm this is usual so I don't have to meta him ?

On December 13 2015 18:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion.


I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about.

Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no?


Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think".


In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either:
1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities
2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it

Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct?

Town rayn would only care about my opinion of him if he wants to see how I conduct my analysis or wants me to give a bearing on how something has gone in the game.

First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling.

Finally, Ryan asking my read of him. This strikes me as odd as well because it appears as though he wants to draw some early fire for an easy opportunity to defend himself through activity. A question like "why didn't you analyze me?!" Has bearing on day 2, but not a quarter into day 1 when information is still being processed.

On December 13 2015 03:20 GreYMisT wrote:
I did not include any thoughts on you, Ryan, in part because you have been vocal. There is a little more for me to have to figure out and I'd like to not post a read on you until I have.

On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
As scum, it tends to resemble more of a very precocious toddler trying to force a triangle through a circle-shaped hole.

On December 14 2015 04:32 marvellosity wrote:

i can tell you why

they're mafia together

On December 14 2015 05:10 marvellosity wrote:
are you sure on rsoul/lex?

On December 14 2015 05:13 marvellosity wrote:

if you think Rels plays super fucking dirty, don't you think his continued case on DP into a vote on me counts as super fucking dirty? but you cleared him for it (if DP is mafia)

On December 14 2015 05:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Hey rayn can you do me a favor and off the top of your head tell me what my position on everyone in this game is.

On December 14 2015 05:29 GreYMisT wrote:


DP has a point here marv, I filtered him and unless im missing something he said im suspicious, never that I was his choice of a lynch to follow you. Why him over Rels if this is the case?

On December 14 2015 05:29 marvellosity wrote:

who did this? art/rsoul are calling him somewhat town

rels started town on him and then it fell off, which is actually a really weird way round for things to go

you're equivalenting (totes a word) yourself with other players except there is no equivalence.

really afk now.

On December 14 2015 05:42 DarthPunk wrote:
I've really got to go to work. Rayn I am sheeping you who do I vote for?

On December 14 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote:
Well we have time to talk about it.

I know you saw what I posted on marv, I think I'm right and we did the right thing moving off of him. Do you still have some hesitance?

Also what do you think of dp/grey here?

On December 14 2015 06:14 Damdred wrote:
Myself and you (and policy lynching marv which he somewhat disagrees wirh) are his top scum reads or his strongest ones.

On December 14 2015 06:48 Damdred wrote:
I actually think the way Rels is acting can be town indicative. What you say is true also rayn htm.

On December 14 2015 06:49 Rels wrote:

This guy is scum

On December 14 2015 06:50 Damdred wrote:
Help convince you that marv is scum and stay on marv and hope.

Rayn 10 minutes last question, marv kept saying he had to go but kept sticking in the thread to try and get his point across that's town indicative usually no?

On December 14 2015 18:28 Rels wrote:

I still don't understand why rsoul would say that. rayn clearly stated in his post "DP cannot be scumread for XXX". Why would rsoul go "but rayn, let me rephrase: what we meant was XXX" ?
rayn you mentionned rsoul could have a town reason to do that; what was it ?

On December 14 2015 19:22 Rels wrote:

Why do you not understand ? Timeline:
Time A: I don't have an opinion on anyone else (this includes rayn) => so null read on rayn
Time B: rayn => "why do you not have an opinion on me ?"
Time C: I didn't include thoughts on you 'cause I want more time to analyse you => contradicting what he said in time A
Time D: I said I didn't post my opinion on you, not that I had a null read on you => contradicting what he said in time A

On December 14 2015 19:33 Rels wrote:
Why everybody is townreading rsoul ?

On December 14 2015 19:26 Rels wrote:
[...]
2 - so you don't townread me, but rayn / damdred calling me out on me voting someone else than the person I have the most suspicions on is scummy ? I don't understand the thought process here. Why are you not considering the fact that they could be right ? Why is pressuring someone on something weird is scummy ?

On December 14 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:

Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ?
About DP: I don't scumread him. He was a townlean going into EOD. His EOD was NAI IMO.
He unvoted marv then sheeped on me then left the thread; both alignement could do it; but if he's scum, him saying "I would sheep you rayn" after you say you want to switch off marv is certainly possible. It's possible he's town doing it too.

On December 14 2015 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why did you not consider them for D1 lynch then ? And why were you townreading them after their first posts ?

On December 14 2015 20:01 Rels wrote:

I'm not convinced of the last sentence. And I don't like how they weren't there for deadline, but I can't deny them voting their partner and gtfo is super unlikely.
Do you think the last scum has to be between GM and I ?

On December 14 2015 20:02 Rels wrote:

I thought he would vote for me, the easy mislynch, if he was scum.

On December 14 2015 05:23 GreYMisT wrote:


My issue here is that this post didnt come at the start of the game when you said "hey" after the day post. You obviously knew that the game was starting and that it was the weekend. You didnt make any effort to phone post and say, "yo guys cant post, sorry, will do it later" or anything of the sort.

Why shouldn't I believe that you are scum marv trying to come in at the last second and sow a little chaos?

On December 14 2015 05:25 GreYMisT wrote:


you've already gotten 1 vote off yourself

On December 14 2015 05:29 GreYMisT wrote:


DP has a point here marv, I filtered him and unless im missing something he said im suspicious, never that I was his choice of a lynch to follow you. Why him over Rels if this is the case?

On December 14 2015 05:36 GreYMisT wrote:
Well guys, we have an hour and a half to discuss marvs last posts, figure out if he is still the lynch, and if not find another. My first impression is that it seems weird that he alternates between having reads on DP and rels, but only wants to kill DP. what do you guys think about that?

In the meantime im going to look at the other options for lynch. I'm no longer confortable with rayn as a lynch. Thinking about what ritani said about his meta, and clearing up that inconsistancy i thought i saw in his post allieviated a lot of my concerns. I am looking at rels and damdred atm because I am leaning town on DP.

On December 15 2015 00:53 Rels wrote:
@rayn: I'm not convinced by that. The moment marv came back to the thread, he had one post stating "marv you're probably still scum", then found weird things in my filter and voted me with you all, then refused to switch back to marv even though he stated marv's posting spree wasn't alignement indicative.

On December 15 2015 00:56 Rels wrote:

So if I'm town what you've just said doesn't mean anything anymore ?

On December 15 2015 01:02 Damdred wrote:
Rayn I do have an issue with that greymist part.

He does cast doubt towards Marv, but he drops that doubt pretty quickly even though Marv basically ignored interacting with him.

Also for someone who has doubts about Marv refusing to move back to scum Marv and looking maybe to go elsewhere other than Marv and rels is super strange.

Like if he's doubting Marv why so staunch on rels? It doesn't make sense

On December 15 2015 01:04 Rels wrote:
OK if I'm not welcome here
[...]

On December 15 2015 01:07 GreYMisT wrote:


And the reason for this was, at the time the chaos started, Marv said he was gone. There would be no more answers or conversations with him. I decided that voting Rels was a better play as I had a day's worth of information, while anything I had on marv was clouded by the fact that he was only here for a very minimal amount of time.

Since you admit yourself you misread a post, I don't understand why you think me questionning your logic on attacking rayn is a 3rd party defense rather than me finding something weird on your posts. Do you have an explanation ?

On December 15 2015 03:28 Rels wrote:
I'm as lost as you. Waiting for gm confirmation on what he meant (did he misquote or not ?) before going further.

Since you admit yourself you misread a post, I don't understand why you think me questionning your logic on attacking rayn is a 3rd party defense rather than me finding something weird on your posts. Do you have an explanation ?

On December 15 2015 01:46 Damdred wrote:


I wasn't 100% sure but in that moment I didn't want to lynch rels I thought about maybe going to gm but I would rather be with my hard tr in that situation.

I did think Marv had an ok chance to flip scum after seeing what you said+looking at his filter bit I was nervous.

We've had a strong townread on both Rayn (me more than art, but that's splitting hairs) and Damdred since very early in the game.

On December 15 2015 05:03 RtaniSoul wrote:
We also don't think the Rels-GM interaction looks like town-town, and in particular looks bad on Rels. It looks more like he's trying to make something happen and focusing on small issues that he just posts a lot about rather than trying to work with people. Kind of more of the same. The issue discussed was insignificant and doesn't really make anyone scum.

On December 15 2015 05:22 Damdred wrote:
Is it still rels only for you rayn?

On December 15 2015 05:28 GreYMisT wrote:


That is a mischaracterization and a slight mistake of logic. The analysis has little bearing on the substance of the argument, but the way it was made.

And Rels, you literally think everyone else is gold standard town? I find that impossible to believe.

On December 15 2015 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I don't understand how this is possible because you were actually misrepresenting me and what i said of you and Rels pointed that out.

On December 15 2015 06:01 RtaniSoul wrote:
As for Marv flipping scum and us afking on him, I do actually think that gives us some cred because Marv coming back to the thread when his scumbuddy is afk is just not something that's likely to happen. Marv and I talk occasionally and I'm sure we would've communicated about it. He wouldn't have come back without that.

On December 15 2015 01:04 Rels wrote:
OK if I'm not welcome here I will wait for these to get answers before coming back.
GM I'm waiting for you.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499921-really-small-mafia-ii?page=17#329 (only the 2nd thing)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499921-really-small-mafia-ii?page=18#344
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/499921-really-small-mafia-ii?page=19#365

On December 13 2015 19:43 Rels wrote:


It's true it sounds like a bad excuse.

On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:

How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions.


On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda.


He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ?


You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ?

On December 14 2015 05:46 GreYMisT wrote:
prompting him to 3rd party defend rayn. maybe im reaching but I'd be ok with a rels lynch if thats the play.

On December 15 2015 01:11 GreYMisT wrote:


3) and I think i might have misquoted as you said. I see it as a 3rd party defense because I posted suspicions of ryan, and you came in and broke down the post instead of waiting to see how rayn would react to it, like I would assume a town would who wants more information.

On December 15 2015 06:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Do you not consider that GM could have just changed his perception of that post over the course of time?

On December 15 2015 06:58 DarthPunk wrote:


What if he just changed his mind based on the ~day of time playing the game that had passed or started viewing that post differently with different information?

On December 15 2015 07:14 GreYMisT wrote:


And you're blue hunting?

On December 15 2015 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:

yes, totally.
can you see why it is the correct play to claim?

i assure you if you are the doctor the town wins this game 100%.

On December 14 2015 20:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would go as far as saying if one of you three is the doctor the game is won already but let's not go that far yet.

On December 15 2015 07:22 RtaniSoul wrote:

#teamgirlydrinks

On December 14 2015 06:42 Rels wrote:
Wow getting lynched I see. Well, better now than being the cause of losing the game

On December 15 2015 07:33 GreYMisT wrote:
Rayn my issue is that if the doctor claims and we misslynch, we are at lylo. if doctor maintains silence, he can at least have a chance at another save tonight. This is all im seeing and the fact that Rtani and you both cavalierly advocate for this plan makes me a bit worried.

On December 15 2015 23:38 RtaniSoul wrote:
Lynch Rels, and if he for some weird reason flips town, lynch GM.

On December 15 2015 23:54 Rels wrote:

Cool. Any chance it's not DP ? If not game is over.

On December 15 2015 23:55 Rels wrote:

Talking about scum.

On December 15 2015 23:57 Rels wrote:

I always cared. I want to win.

On December 14 2015 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Do you seriously think DP is mafia when marv places his vote on him and refuses to consider you (who i am pushing) as a lynch? That would implicate that marv is more okay with DP getting lynched than getting lynched himself, and i honestly do not think even marv thinks he has a better chance of winning the game with scum lynched on D1 than DP.

I find it the most impossible answer that DP is mafia with marv -- after Damdred who hammered scum ofc.

On December 14 2015 19:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Regardless of what me and Damdred do DP and marv could have lynched you instead...

On December 16 2015 00:01 Rels wrote:
Rels:
- I don't like his EOD, i really don't, i disagree with Damdred here. The thing is Rels said he hasn't read most of the posts when shit started to happen, yet he doesn't listen to anyone when he comes back at the EOD, just starts yelling idk.. something...
- The scumread on marv suddenly disappears there, without him properly reading marv's posts
- I agree with the two-head here, many of Rels' points seem to lead nowhere and are minor points that do not actually matter at all alignment-wise
- Actually this shit here points towards Rels more than Greymist. Look at what i say about Greymist's post, and what Rels does:
+ Show Spoiler +
The notable difference here is the following:

What i did i pointed out why Greymist was talking about something that i NEVER said. What Rels did is he just asked "why is this scummy?". I believe this shows a lack of reading the thread properly and understanding why people say the things they do, since the correct question here, for Rels, should be "rayn never said what you claim here -- why are you saying he did?". If i actually did what Greymist said in his post that WOULD be scummy, but the fact is i didn't.

I think this is the strongest point against Rels, and i missed that before. Also notice that the post Rels made came AFTER i had already posted my response to Greymist.

---

My preferred lynch order at this point is Rels --> Hydra.

On December 15 2015 06:16 Rels wrote:
rayn if by your fault GM is never lynched this game I'm gonna be super mad. I don't have anything to answer your things against me.

On December 16 2015 00:10 Rels wrote:
=D funny guy. I can't fucking believe greymist forgot the reason he made an accusation post.

On December 16 2015 00:15 Rels wrote:

I have no idea what question you want me to answer. In your list of points against me, only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false. The rest I cannot prove to be wrong, except that nothing is alignement indicative.

On December 16 2015 00:19 Rels wrote:

Maybe if you read the sentence again you will see I say "only the "pointless questionning" stuff is false" (=

On December 16 2015 00:23 Rels wrote:

Well if that's your opinion whatever.

On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"

On December 16 2015 00:29 Rels wrote:
I don't understand how GM is not scum here though.

On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"

On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Otherwise here is my mind atm:

rayn
Damdred
grey

Arta/rsoul
marv

DP

On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
@Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP.

@DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice.

On December 16 2015 00:41 GreYMisT wrote:
Also, just for fun, I was literally (no joke) about to change my save to damdred. I went with someone else, deciding not to try to game the mafia and it turned out wrong. Would have been a sick play.

On December 16 2015 00:44 RtaniSoul wrote:

Please do inform us how actively lurking and having our vote on scum is scummier than just being afk

On December 16 2015 00:27 RtaniSoul wrote:
Tina is very happy about being right. When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town she instantly said "but who else could rels be scum with?"

---

About the reiteration
Our concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.

---

For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town.

Town
Damdred
Raynpelikoneet

Leaning Town
GreYMisT

Leaning Scum
Rels
DarthPunk

Mafia
Marvellosity

On December 14 2015 02:13 RtaniSoul wrote:
@Damdy yeah, you're right. There's nothing wrong with focusing on PoE, and we definitely could be wrong about DP. Lex and I have waffled on him back and forth as we read the thread. PoE makes sense if you have no scumreads, but we still just don't see much actual scumhunting in his filter and it still bugs us. We can get a sense of where most people would be voting if they weren't voting marv, but we don't have the same feeling about DP.

@DP, if you could address the above question...who is scum other than marv?...that would be nice.

Now in the Post 1 the hydra says this:
"When she heard marv started posting and I said this might make him town"
That implies (as they claim, they have been reading the thread after marv started posting but before the deadline). In case they are lying about this they are 100% scum so let's not discuss that at all. Let's assume they are telling the truth.

However, they say "Artanis thought marv could be town". At this point of the game, based on Post 2 and Post 3, which are the last posts before the deadline from them, they are literally scumreading DP over Rels. It makes sense that Artanis says that, since marv is voting for DP (their top scumread). However it doesn't make any sense that rsoultin says "but who else could rels be scum with?", for these reasons:

1) It's easily possible here, if marv is in fact town, that Rels is mafia with DP -- or at least it should be for them, since nothing in their posting implicates otherwise.
2) The posts (2) and (3) are their collective thoughts. If they thought Rels is somehow mafia over DP (which can't be seen from their posting) -- well the thread is there for expressing the thought, even without reasoning laid out for it. Again, if they thought that is the case -- there is no implication for it, so it sounds like bullshit.

Therefore i find it impossible they are telling the truth here.

On December 15 2015 05:36 Damdred wrote:
Rayn it is hard, maybe medic will be in group of three and make it easy lolol.
I'm still super paranoid about dp but I think he's town maybe.

One thing going against rels which is total eifom in my mind was Marv not jumping on him to work with you and preserve himself. But at the same time why would he if he had done enough to get you and I off of him you could scream rels home and he got to sit back. Besides that I like some of the effort/logic rels is using.

Idk I'm still torn on gm Marv I think gave a read on everyone but gm? Ignored him to a point and eod made me throw my hands up about him.

tina/art have no cred from the Marv flip but I like what they say when they are here but something bugs me to an extent about them. Mube they aren't as helpful as they should be or as involved

On December 16 2015 22:06 Rels wrote:
Yep. I don't think this big post can have a town motivation, unless they feel super guilty and have the need to express themselves but don't want to admit it.

On December 16 2015 19:50 DarthPunk wrote:
Rayn is smart enough to analyze the game again at LYLO. As am I (though I don't feel the need to as there is no way on earth rayn is scum)

On December 16 2015 23:28 Rels wrote:
rayn can you answer this:

On December 16 2015 23:32 Rels wrote:
Every post was just emotional BS with 0 content. What would they have done if they were scum ? Roll out and die ?

On December 16 2015 23:40 DarthPunk wrote:
My 3 hours are when nobody is in the thread. Like I would have to stay up all night to be able to play the kind of interactive style that I carry with.

On December 16 2015 23:42 DarthPunk wrote:

I think this is the wrong answer and the hydra is. I also don't want to be lynched at Lylo over fucking Rso. So probs lynch me first if your not lynching hydra.

On December 16 2015 23:48 DarthPunk wrote:
Rayn why would rels fight so hard against my lynch if he was scum? Dude is town. He cares too much to not be.

Also hydras should look Way Way Wayyy better than Rso+artanis do. Remember the hydra game and how town rolled scum in 2 days?

This hydra not doing enough with such an obviously pro town mechanic.

On December 16 2015 10:01 GreYMisT wrote:
I'm ok with either a Rels or Rtani lynch at this point. Rtani has kinda been off to me the entire game and Rels is looking more and more like overzealous town to me. Ill make my vote tomorrow

On December 16 2015 17:42 Rels wrote:

This is WIFOM. marv was scum, so he did what he wanted to give his team the best chance of success.
And here you find weird that marv did not vote me if I'm not scum; but above you say me being scum matches with me switching off him. Why do you not consider the possibility that I'm town seeing the exact thing you're finding weird and decided marv might be town ?

On December 17 2015 00:33 Rels wrote:

Only because you assume Artasoul would roll over and die or concede if they were scum. Show me the townie mindset behind the posts I quoted above.

On December 17 2015 00:36 Rels wrote:

marv was not voting me when it was the obvious way to survive.

On December 17 2015 00:42 Rels wrote:

It doesn't show I'm town. What I'm pointing out as weird is:

If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me, it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.

If Artasoul finds weird that marv doesn't vote for me...

...it's weird they are not considering that I found it weird to and reacted by townreading marv.

On December 17 2015 00:57 Rels wrote:

This doesn't make sense.

On December 17 2015 01:00 Rels wrote:

You're right, it only makes sense from my PoV. This is something that point at me being scum and I can't do anything against it. So it also true it's normal Artasoul didn't consider it from "Rels is town" perspective, whatever their alignement is.

On December 17 2015 01:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Greymist could you please give your detailed thoughts on all the people in the game left?

On December 17 2015 01:09 Rels wrote:
Obviously they are not NAI to you since you've completely changed your mind. So please take the time to think and write in words exactly what in those posts made you think arsoul is town.

If you yourself cannot imagine an explanation as to why marv did that in case I'm town, I don't see why I should have the responsability to make up one myself.

On December 17 2015 01:35 Rels wrote:

No. I think we cannot guess why marv voting DP instead of me. The only logical answers are "Rels is scum" and "DP is probably not scum".

On December 17 2015 01:39 Rels wrote:
rayn: does marv usually ignore his partners ?

On December 16 2015 23:20 DarthPunk wrote:


it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right.

game stuff ends here

I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like I really want to fight my lynch the way I would have in the past but real life takes too much time to play mafia properly and there is no way I can work a 12 hour day on less than 6 hours sleep.

During this game I was able to spend at the most 3 hours per day to read and post in the thread and the way I have always played has been in a very interactive way that requires lots of time and attention and spam

Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.)

It is not fair on my past self and all the effort I used to put into this game I loved.

I can't play to my own standards and it is incredibly frustrating to be in that situation where instead of a mafia god I am a fucking grandfather who should have already retired.

I am grateful though that I got to play in this last game with two of my favourite players ever (marv/Rayn)
And someone new who vividly reminds me of how I once played the game.

So thanks for that.

Also, as it's my own fucking eulogy:

Rso you are legit terrible at the game.

Artanis fuck you for not trying in vengeful you prick.

Rayn thanks for the memories but I still lynched the shit out of you in hydra.

Marv you are a god except your ego is a force of fucking nature.

Fuck you holy flare.

I think that's everything .

I'm turning off my phone so I can salvage some sleep.

It was a wild ride while it lasted. Peace!

On December 17 2015 01:53 Rels wrote:
Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ?

On December 17 2015 01:57 GreYMisT wrote:


Rayn what makes you think that I dont die tonight? im a confirmed town

On December 17 2015 01:58 Rels wrote:

Then you didn't read their posts properly. Please let them answer the question.

On December 17 2015 06:49 Rels wrote:

Why did you ignore my requests to quote the posts artsoul couldn't make as scum two times ?

On December 17 2015 23:57 Rels wrote:
So you cannot swear you are not scum ?

On December 18 2015 00:02 Rels wrote:

Do you think this is cheap if DP is scum ? Or better / worse than cheap ?