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Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition - Page 5

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 18:39 GMT
#967
On November 18 2015 23:55 disformation wrote:
Now what I found in Trfel's filter:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2015 04:21 Trfel wrote:
Wait, what the heck?

This push onto Breshke is so mafia-motivated. I don't trust geript at all here.

Look at scott31337's townread of geript. He just says that geript is a top town.

Notice that he repeatedly says "Trfel could be scum or he could be town" in response to me solving the game and pushing my ideas.

He never describes any difference between me and geript, just uses the fact that I had one good game as scum to avoid townreading me. But geript is better than me at mafia, by far, and scott31337 knows this. It's impossible for him not to know that geript is extremely skilled as mafia.

So now geript comes up with this push out of nowhere to prevent scott31337 from being lynched?

I don't like this one bit.


Isn't that whole post basically a fear read on geript? Fear reads are bad mkay. Is he trying to sow distraction?
Not a fan but I need to read his filter for conclusions.
What the heck is a "fear read" anyway?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 18:42 GMT
#968
Off for lunch for a bit, I have somewhere to be at the deadline but I'll try to get my thoughts typed up by then.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 19:25 GMT
#972
Change of plans, I guess I'm not going somewhere at the deadline.

My case on VisceraEyes still stands. VisceraEyes had a sort-of plausible explanation for the main point of my case, however his recent lack of activity is extremely mafia-motivated.

He vanished right after people started scumreading him less, right after he was pretty safe from the Day 1 lynch. And he hasn't come back since. There's no risk of him being lynched tonight, so there's no point in him playing. This feels like mafia who is being lazy and playing to survive, but he knows that he won't be able to survive for too long and that's killing his motivation.

I thought that FarahBlackwing was probably town, but MoosyDoosy's case brought up several good points. FarahBlackwing's response, however, was even more suspicious. FarahBlackwing hasn't shown much determination at all lately, and her unwillingness to seriously answer the case is not at all what I would expect from town. She said she's busy today, I guess I'll give her a day before I make any conclusions.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 19:41 GMT
#975
On November 19 2015 04:38 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Trfel obviously not reading the game
Can you please respond to the points that MoosyDoosy brought up?

In a more direct manner than you "have", since you failed to address the points with the most merit?

I'm not the only one who liked parts of MoosyDoosy's case.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 19:57 GMT
#983
geript

Early read on The Shining
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 16 2015 05:52 geript wrote:
I don't like Shining. He feels really different; not because he's posting a bit more than I remember him. His posting just seems off and not pointed to me.
On November 16 2015 15:16 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2015 14:37 ritoky wrote:
On November 16 2015 08:30 disformation wrote:
On November 16 2015 08:09 ritoky wrote:
On November 16 2015 08:04 disformation wrote:
On November 16 2015 07:51 ritoky wrote:
On November 16 2015 06:17 disformation wrote:
On November 16 2015 06:13 FarahBlackwing wrote:
On November 16 2015 06:08 disformation wrote:
On November 16 2015 06:05 FarahBlackwing wrote:
[quote]

Shining is town based on general activity, somewhat emotional responses based on things happening in game. His posts sound like someone struggling o try to get his point across rather than someone trying to fit in.

Pretty sure he's town at least for now.


Do you mean to say that Shining posts much more as town? Could someone else confirm this? Don't remember playing with Shining.


From reading his past games he is slightly more posty but he's more mechanical as scum and lacks emotional responses about in game situations and it generally comes later after post a than in sync with the thread. This view comes from research and talking with people who know how to read him


Alright, thanks.
Will probably have to look at a few Shining maffay games myself.


quoting for empty promise potential.


Should have said "maybe, if two suns rise tomorrow morning will I look at some past games."
Nah, for realz, he only has two maffay games in the database, so I will be looking at those next.

Despite me saying that I don't recall playing with The Shining we were both town in NSM IX. So I am currently reading both our filters from that game trying to recall stuff.


that's cool, i expect content later though.

however before you finish that i am more interested on your thoughts on the actual game, not how it relates to previous games. who do you think is town? who is mafia? who is bad? who's ego is too big? y'kno....the usual


Fair enough. Since I haven't played with the shining much, I am not that confident I will find amazing things in those old games. But I did try and pressure him in NSM9 a few times because I felt like he wasn't doing much. He was town in this game. So I am already not too sure about the meta read. His filter length in "Battle of the Drams", where he was mafia, is pretty similar to the one in NSM9, too...

Well, back to this game:
As stated before I have a town lean on geript for driving the game and prodding ppl into explaining stuff.
Trfel.. kinda strange reaction to VE's uh... lets call it a poke. Not sure if his knee jerk reaction is maffay or town motivated.
FF: null. Only reaction so far is to me having his name in a post. Lurking?
ritoky: Getting an investigating/engaging/driving the thread feel, so town lean.

The early discussion stuff with Eversince, Farah, The Shining and VE was a bit strange to me, since I read the early posts by Eversince and Farah as jokes to get stuff going (well: mission accomplished).
Not sure about VE, but both ppl I have as a town lean, say he is town based on meta, so I'll probably be a lazy cunt and sheep them (for now).


yo geript, what do you think of the bolded? like...why was it included?

I'm 99% sure I've coached disinformation. I just can't remember if it was as scum or town. I really want to look at that before I give a full read on him. The bolded doesn't terribly mark me either way other than the question mark. He's made what would seem to be questions out of statements a few times. He kinda bugs me a bit but without going back to see how he thinks it's hard to say if it's scummy or just bad play.

Right now.
7/7---VE/Ritoky
6/7--
5/7--
4.5/7--Farah
4/7--everyone else
3.5/7--Breshke
3/7--Disinfo
2/7--Trfel
1/7--Moosy

I'm seriously like 99% sure moosy is scum.
Hm, that's strange. Where did The Shining go?
On November 17 2015 17:16 geript wrote:
One last post. I'll be up around noon hopefully to look at things. I think Shinig or moosy would be my lynch choice.
On November 18 2015 02:24 geript wrote:
Shining 5.5/7--I could be wrong on him; it's not just the fact that he's quoting in every post or thereabouts. He's no over explainy which he does as mafia. He's not really disconnected from the thread. He's had a good thought or two. Meta fits which is enough for now.
Two more posts about The Shining from geript's filter.

I don't understand this progression, at all. Geript started out by saying that The Shining is mafia, then completely dropped his read on him, then put him as a top lynch, then decided that he's likely town for things that have already been said.
On November 18 2015 01:05 Trfel wrote:
I don't want to lynch The Shining. He said that he was trying to do more work right when the game began to make up for not being able to play Monday and Tuesday, and his posting rate was much higher than it generally is. In addition to activity, his posts show attempts to gain information. Many of The Shining's scum games show fewer, larger posts to try and stay alive, rather than trying to pressure things to gain information.

FarahBlackwing's post about The Shining was very good, particularly with regards to The Shining's slight shows of emotion this game. It's very different from The Shining's most recent mafia game.

I could lynch MoosyDoosy, but I'm more confident in scott31337. MoosyDoosy is a wild card, scott31337 generally puts forward a good effort as town.
Here's a post that I made before geript's post here, townreading The Shining. FarahBlackwing said similar things as well. These points were clearly visible before, geript just ignored them until he came back with this list post. He didn't reference any of the people who had posted the same thoughts before. Basically geript wasn't paying attention to one of his top scumreads.

This isn't 100% clear, I don't have time to explain it fully, but nothing changed in a very long time with The Shining, since he was busy and afk after the early portion of the game. These same points were clear the entire time.


Many of geript's posts are just criticizing others for no reason/bad reasons
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 17 2015 15:30 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2015 07:33 Breshke wrote:
On November 17 2015 07:30 Trfel wrote:
Breshke, any thoughts on VisceraEyes and Fecalfeast?

What makes geript's ranking out of 7 post any different from a standard list post?


I have no problem with VE's read on FF seems to be a classic " he isn't doing stuff so lynch him".

IDK i said it was dumb but people normally do stuff out of 10 or a percent or like out of 5. He did 7 so someone could be like "Why the fuck is it out of 7" and he would need to explain which would bring more attention to his reads etc

There's really nothing special about it. For scientific studies, usually we talk about rating things on an odd scale (5 or 7 usually). 1 and 7 are extremes; 4 is exactly in the middle, 2-3 and 5-6 leaning but not there. It just actually fits things better:
7/7=total town no doubts
6/7=90% town but some doubts
5/7=more likely town than not but ???
4/7=null
3/7=more likely scum than not but ???
2/7=90% scum but some doubts
1/7=total scum

Like this is such an irrelevant point. get back to something important.
Breshke makes a point that leads him to a town lean on geript. I questioned it, and Breshke responded. The discussion ended there, and then geript made the above post about 8 hours later. Town!geript shouldn't care about this, because the discussion has been long since over, and because the conclusion isn't incorrect. Geript is not drawing any conclusion himself from this post, either. There's just zero reason for this post to be made as town.
On November 17 2015 15:22 geript wrote:
Trfel has stayed teh same; but I kinda don't want to lynch him D1 because I remembered when I woke up that Tina says he always looks scummy D1 but gets better. I didn't like his stuff on Disinfo; just felt over inflated. It's not awful, but it is a bit over inflated it hink
Bold emphasis mine.

Given that I said here that I messed up and misinterpreted something for the most important point of my post, geript's statement is an extremely accurate description. Which in no way makes me mafia, it means that I messed up. His conclusion comes from nowhere.

Running out of time, there are more examples, but I need to get this out before the deadline.


Finally, geript's reads on Breshke and me don't show anything.

Geript never addressed the points about my case on VisceraEyes, one of his strongest townreads. He just said that my case is awful. When I said that he never addressed my case, he posted criticisms of a few random thoughts on scott31337. He didn't even comment on my more complete case on scott31337, he commented on the extremely brief summary. He also drastically misrepresents my statements.

His read on Breshke involves a ton of claims that just aren't true.
On November 18 2015 14:46 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2015 04:42 Trfel wrote:
There is clearly a direction in Breshke's filter, and there are also some very insightful comments. The latter is the huge part of Breshke's town play, and it's very present this game.

Looking through Breshke's filter, here's his direction:

Early question to Eversince, ends in town lean
Townread on The Shining
Town lean on geript and ritoky
Scum read on MoosyDoosy
Investigating VisceraEyes
Willing to lynch MoosyDoosy, Fecalfeast, and scott31337, still trying to figure out VisceraEyes
Votes for MoosyDoosy

The interesting thing here is that he's actually engaging with his scumreads and trying to get more information. He questioned VisceraEyes with a very sensible progression. His reads make sense and his pushes all have a followup.

My points on Breshke covered this entirely. Breshke should not be read on his reads. It's about how he interacts with and acts in response to what's happening in the thread. Him blandly asking questions that go no where and lead to no conclusions is part of his scum meta. So what Trfel has pointed towards is specifically his scum meta and Trfel is trying to paint him town for it.
Breshke doesn't have questions that go nowhere, and he definitely has drawn conclusions. I described that in the very post that he quoted. Geript just said "no, Trfel is misrepresenting things" without addressing that my argument is based on facts which were clearly laid out in the post.

Conclusion

I'm not completely sure on geript yet. He seems really scummy, but he also has a large ego as town.

Geript, if you are town, humor me for a moment. Explain things in a way that a lesser player (aka the vast majority of this game) can understand (aka no meta, and a clear connection between evidence and conclusions). Why is Breshke mafia? Why is VisceraEyes town? Why are the points that I have brought up invalid? I've demonstrated how my conclusions come from the thread, it's your turn.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 19:59 GMT
#984
On November 19 2015 04:48 disformation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2015 03:39 Trfel wrote:
On November 18 2015 23:55 disformation wrote:
Now what I found in Trfel's filter:
On November 18 2015 04:21 Trfel wrote:
Wait, what the heck?

This push onto Breshke is so mafia-motivated. I don't trust geript at all here.

Look at scott31337's townread of geript. He just says that geript is a top town.

Notice that he repeatedly says "Trfel could be scum or he could be town" in response to me solving the game and pushing my ideas.

He never describes any difference between me and geript, just uses the fact that I had one good game as scum to avoid townreading me. But geript is better than me at mafia, by far, and scott31337 knows this. It's impossible for him not to know that geript is extremely skilled as mafia.

So now geript comes up with this push out of nowhere to prevent scott31337 from being lynched?

I don't like this one bit.


Isn't that whole post basically a fear read on geript? Fear reads are bad mkay. Is he trying to sow distraction?
Not a fan but I need to read his filter for conclusions.
What the heck is a "fear read" anyway?


Sry missed this. Eatings right now.
A fear read is basically this "geript is super good as mafia, he could pull this off as mafia!" part you put in italics. You know as in I fear he could be mafia, because that would be very bad for town, so I need to be super suspicious of him. You don't apply this directly to geript but indirectly via this scott association thing. But you don't have any other evidence of geript being mafia than this association-fear read thing.
Okay, well you're simply wrong.

Several times I've described that geript's play does not make sense at all to me. I still haven't put it all in one place, I ran out of time with the above post. But geript's play has a ton of things that I'm suspicious of.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 20:02 GMT
#986
Well, I guess it's all irrelevant now.

I don't even know any more.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:10 GMT
#1057
The fact that she claimed, but didn't bother going through MoosyDoosy's case point by point is really, really suspicious.

I know I'm not the only one who asked for that.

Would FarahBlackwing fakeclaim here as town? I would think not, but am I wrong?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:14 GMT
#1061
On November 17 2015 08:38 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Then your vote where your idea is instead of doing the opposite of what you said you would do.

And not sure what you are referring to with the like Damdred thing and putting my gender in quotation marks.

I really do not care if I am eliminated at this stage.
I can't see this coming from a person who would fakeclaim here as town. That settles that.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:15 GMT
#1062
On November 19 2015 07:13 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2015 07:10 Trfel wrote:
The fact that she claimed, but didn't bother going through MoosyDoosy's case point by point is really, really suspicious.

I know I'm not the only one who asked for that.

Would FarahBlackwing fakeclaim here as town? I would think not, but am I wrong?


she is a new player, they are more prone to get ants in their pants and claim stupidly or too early than to make a fake claim that they know will get them into a screaming match w/ 40+ hours left in the day....unless you're me and fake claim cop your 2nd game ever.
Wait, what? Story time.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:31 GMT
#1067
FarahBlackwing, why do you care so much about figuring out who the vigilante is?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:35 GMT
#1069
On November 19 2015 07:33 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Because the correct play is for the vigilante to claim as the day begins to have as much information as possible. The only time a vigilante should not claim is with multiple shots.
Why does it matter so much to you if the vigilante claims now or not? The vigilante will claim when the time is correct in their own judgement.

Like, imagine that the vigilante claims right now. How does this help you more as opposed to the vigilante claiming later?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:45 GMT
#1076
Ugh, I hate being sick, it makes it so hard for me to think T.T

I'm really, really considering lynching FarahBlackwing here.

The only reason for her to claim this early is that she doesn't have enough time to properly defend herself.
On November 19 2015 06:53 FarahBlackwing wrote:
I'll head this off now probably not enough time to fight off a snowball.

Hard claiming blue.
So she's really busy, but she spent time trying to guess who the vigilante is (of all things) instead of responding to the case? Instead of trying to find mafia?
On November 19 2015 07:38 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Read what I wrote and apply it. Information is king withholding information when you are a glorified vt now is anti-town especially the leathery out wait the more mafia can mess with town.
This is in no way a justification for the time spent.

To me, it almost feels like FarahBlackwing's attempts to find the vigilante were to figure out what the thread influence would look like post-claim, which is useful to know if she's mafia. Especially if she's mafia trying to do something like fakeclaim.

Fecalfeast doesn't have a large amount of thread presence, and imagining for a moment that he became confirmed town by claiming vigilante, I don't think that much would change. Meaning that mafia thread influence would be maximized, encouraging a fakeclaim.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 22:52 GMT
#1079
On November 19 2015 07:49 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Never lynch an uncc blue your dumb otherwise.
Then can you please answer the points that MoosyDoosy brought up?

Can you please explain how it is beneficial to try and figure out who the vigilante is?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 23:00 GMT
#1084
On November 19 2015 07:56 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2015 07:52 Trfel wrote:
On November 19 2015 07:49 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Never lynch an uncc blue your dumb otherwise.
Then can you please answer the points that MoosyDoosy brought up?

Can you please explain how it is beneficial to try and figure out who the vigilante is?


because at worst the vigi is just a confirmed town which lowers the lynch pool by 1 (2 if farah is legit). at best the vigi baits a cc from mafia and we get a 1:1. there is actually 0 reason to not claim as vigi post-shot unless they are trying to avoid having me tell them why they are stupid for shooting geript or ve.
Okay, so let's assume for a moment that you're right, and the vigilante is stupid for not claiming.

We find who the vigilante is, then we know who is stupid. Yay?

The vigilante wouldn't avoid claiming if they're under a sufficient amount of suspicion anyway, no matter what. So you can assume that the vigilante isn't that highly suspected. So IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 23:22 GMT
#1099
On November 19 2015 08:10 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2015 08:00 Trfel wrote:
On November 19 2015 07:56 ritoky wrote:
On November 19 2015 07:52 Trfel wrote:
On November 19 2015 07:49 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Never lynch an uncc blue your dumb otherwise.
Then can you please answer the points that MoosyDoosy brought up?

Can you please explain how it is beneficial to try and figure out who the vigilante is?


because at worst the vigi is just a confirmed town which lowers the lynch pool by 1 (2 if farah is legit). at best the vigi baits a cc from mafia and we get a 1:1. there is actually 0 reason to not claim as vigi post-shot unless they are trying to avoid having me tell them why they are stupid for shooting geript or ve.
Okay, so let's assume for a moment that you're right, and the vigilante is stupid for not claiming.

We find who the vigilante is, then we know who is stupid. Yay?

The vigilante wouldn't avoid claiming if they're under a sufficient amount of suspicion anyway, no matter what. So you can assume that the vigilante isn't that highly suspected. So IT DOESN'T MATTER.


it is the denial of a universal TR to town for what i can only assume is a lack of understanding of mechanics or selfish reasons...it is just anti-town to not claim; if you don't understand then your mechanics are not strong enough.
Okay, that's simply not my point. I just cannot see how it is at all beneficial to try and figure out who the vigilante is.

It will always be heavily speculative until they claim. Furthermore, the simple fact that they aren't claiming suggests that the gain for town is not all that large.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 23:23 GMT
#1102
On November 19 2015 08:14 FarahBlackwing wrote:
Yeah that's dumb. Vigilante should always claim after he's out of bullets.

For the same reason self aware Miller's and named vanilla townies should claim. More confirmed people leads town to better lynched.

I have three 8 hour third shifts with mandatory overtime recertification in the mornings. My time is precious.
Of course the vigilante will claim if they're at risk of being lynched. That was never in question.

Assuming that the vigilante is not currently at risk of being lynched, which is an extremely safe assumption, why do you care about the vigilante claiming more than you do finding mafia?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 23:25 GMT
#1104
On November 19 2015 08:23 FarahBlackwing wrote:
##unvote
##Vote farahblackwing


Lets ride
Sure.

##vote FarahBlackwing
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 23:38 GMT
#1121
On November 19 2015 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote:
Ritoky is correct. Even if the claim feels like buttcheeks it's still uncc'd
But when it's this bad? And when the person claiming is being this malicious?

And right after we saw MoosyDoosy avoid a lynch through martyring?

This simply isn't town play. Giving up a power role for this is not a trade that should even need to happen.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
November 18 2015 23:49 GMT
#1134
On November 19 2015 08:39 Fecalfeast wrote:
1. Unless someone claims a vig shot on Geript, he was the only one adamant about trfel being scum and was getting upset that nobody listened to him.

2. His day 1 suspicions from his filter: VE, Moose, Scott, Me. I know 3/4 of those are town 100% while moose is showing some towny play since yesterday.

3. Totally willing to vote an uncc'd blue because she's martyring.

Yeah, okay.

Did you read the reasons for my scumreads? Particularly the geript one?
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