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Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition - Page 2
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
VisceraEyes makes two posts showing suspicion of The Shining. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:35 VisceraEyes wrote: No townreads = trying to keep options open. Marfia. On November 16 2015 05:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Like statistically speaking you could just close your eyes and point at a townie, so the fact that you can't trust ANYONE with so many having posted is a huge red flag for me. After these posts, VisceraEyes treats The Shining like he is town, specifically by telling The Shining how to properly play as town. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:43 VisceraEyes wrote: As for finding scum not town, it's infinitely easier to narrow down your search by correctly identifying townies. This is known. On November 16 2015 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote: And AS I said, it wasn't a random snap vote. It's a vote placed with reason. You may or may not agree with the reason, that's your prerogative and should affect whether or not you place your vote. Not mine. <3 Furthermore, Eversince's post on FarahBlackwing has a very large logical flaw, in that The Shining hadn't posted at the time. Eversince is comparing a townread based on actual posts to a vote with zero reason from this game, which does not work. VisceraEyes knows much better than this. This isn't VisceraEyes pushing The Shining, this is VisceraEyes reading incorrectly and flailing wildly at The Shining with words that don't match his stance. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 16 2015 06:21 FarahBlackwing wrote: Fair enough. I don't have a read on geript either XDNo I don't currently have a read concerning him. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm reasonably happy with FarahBlackwing and The Shining as town. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
WHY do you two think that my read on VisceraEyes is bad? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 16 2015 22:43 NocturneMage wrote: Why is that not a good read to make? Please explain this to me yourself, don't quote someone else.Page 15 - I saw nothing wrong with Farah's posts until she unvoted and then made the general activity comment in post 288, few others commented out, but 1 hour into the game to say that it's not a good read to make at all. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 17 2015 04:58 NocturneMage wrote: Patience is a virtue ^^Trfel, since you are (or were?) here, what are your thoughts on VE's last post (the one that I have commented on plus those that are scumreading your case on VE? (post 412) I'm quite likely the slowest reader/poster in TL Mafia, unfortunately  | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Note: Eversince will be addressed in a following post 1. On Eversince and FarahBlackwing Eversince's initial post, voting for The Shining On November 16 2015 05:13 Eversince wrote: Eversince's later post explaining the clear flaw in the above argument:100% townread based on nothing last game I play with you. Last game: Farah town, hard read based on not much, Shining obvious town. This game: Farah ?, Shining mafia. 180 in gameplay = 180 in alignment Obviously mafia. ##vote: Farahblackwing Soooo mafia. Lynch today! On November 16 2015 06:30 Eversince wrote: To clarify, The Shining lurked bad last game I played with. Farah town reads him regardless. This game, Farah mafia reads The Shining. He had not even posted yet. Yeh! It's completely different play! Buggers! Sorry for pointin' it out! VisceraEyes responds to this is a way that doesn't make sense at all. Before my case on VisceraEyes and the second post above from Eversince, VisceraEyes posted these posts: On November 16 2015 05:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I actually like this a lot. ##Vote: Farahblackwing On November 16 2015 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't care if it's accurate - if they're mafia and lying someone will come in and say "Hey that's a lie" and I'll reevaluate then. At this point I'm taking the short meta read at face value, assuming it's true and taking the attempt as a townie attempt to find mafia - one that has possibly borne fruit. So no, I'm not just "blindly" jumping on a wagon. I like this particular wagon for the reasons given and I like the person who started it, as indicated in my post. On November 16 2015 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote: And AS I said, it wasn't a random snap vote. It's a vote placed with reason. You may or may not agree with the reason, that's your prerogative and should affect whether or not you place your vote. Not mine. <3 These three posts show that VisceraEyes is treating Eversince's first post seriously. He says that he likes Eversince's argument, and that he's townreading Eversince and scumreading FarahBlackwing because of it. Furthermore, he uses this repeatedly in his argument with The Shining, which apparently leads to a scumread of The Shining, shown by this post (among others): On November 16 2015 05:50 VisceraEyes wrote: You're getting awfully anxious about me trusting someone so early Shining, I have to say it looks really scummy to me. Why are you so against me having a townread on someone and a scumread on someone else? After my case and Eversince's post, showing that Eversince's early vote on FarahBlackwing had no basis, VisceraEyes says this: On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Ok, so he wasn't being serious earlier. Not only did he make a joke, but then he defended his joke several times, to the point of scumreading The Shining for it.Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. I just can't believe this. 2. General For the moment, let's assume that VisceraEyes was in fact joking with his first series of posts, and let's ignore that this makes no sense. VisceraEyes receives a bunch of town reads after he leaves, notably from geript and ritoky. Notice how VisceraEyes leaves in the same minute that geript posts a strong townread of him. VisceraEyes made three posts upon return, shown below: + Show Spoiler [VisceraEyes' Posts] + On November 16 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I think it's both...the question itself was a little ambiguous so maybe he just answered it as best he could, including both townreads and mafiareads? On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. The super hard townreads on me from geript and ritoky BOTH gave me massive wood. I think geript's might feel a little over-explainy, but I still can't bring myself to find it suspicious. Pocket achieved for both of you. So yeah, unless we're lynching a hard lurker, which I'm always down with, I think I prefer a Fecalfeast lynch. Aside from one townread on Ritoky, I really don't know what Fecal thinks in spite of his actively engaging with the thread. I'd believe GTA if that game weren't so old hat, I think he's just mafia trying to skate by. On November 16 2015 21:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Fecalfeast JUST IN CASE THERE WAS ANY DOUBT AS TO THE SERIOUSNESS OF MY POST!!!!!! VisceraEyes' next two posts are his thoughts about the game, and the only thoughts about the game that he's posted, assuming that his earlier posts were in jest. He says that he likes most of the people who have been posting (ok, so who doesn't he like then? not useful), and that he doesn't like Fecalfeast. I personally don't really like this Fecalfeast read, but whatever, it's sort of up for interpretation. But this is his ONLY read. Note that he spends a fair amount of this post responding to the townreads he's received. He's very aware of them, and this shows in his play. His activity tanked, he's not being useful or constructive, he made the terrible statement "I like most people who posted so far", which a perfect example of useless and lazy play. 3. Response to meta reads + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:50 geript wrote: Hm, people townreading VisceraEyes very strongly with little explanation. Where have I seen this before?I'm not voting for VE ever. This game. Everyone townread VisceraEyes for no reason. I thought VisceraEyes was scum. Everyone ignored me on the basis that "he's town". Guess what, he was scum. In fact, look at VisceraEyes' first post in that game. On August 26 2015 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Look familiar?Hi I'm town. Marv playing like Palmar makes me vom a little in my mouth. Otherwise I like most everyone who's posted so far. I don't see how the metareads given about VisceraEyes apply to this game. Either ~80% of his posts in this game were not serious, or he is clearly lying to try and explain his play. Ritoky's meta read has nothing to do with what I have presented, he didn't mention the posts related to this at all. As for geript's: On November 16 2015 06:13 geript wrote: I don't understand this read. I've seen VisceraEyes jump on things and not push them into oblivion as mafia, too. For example, look at the game I linked; VisceraEyes was scumreading both Palmar and I but when Palmar asked him to reread the entire game under the assumption that we were both town and then share his thoughts, he did so (or at least partially did so).Read other VE games. He's really easy to read when he gets semi active. Part of it is based in the fact that VE and I scum hunt rather differently. He takes on an egocentric (in the technical sense not in the asshole sense) view of other players; i.e. How he acts when he's scum and applies it to them. So when you see him jump on certain things in an accusatory way (especially when he's not trying to assream them) he's almost always town. My case stands for itself, I've had enough of random meta. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
But Eversince is on drugs, and readily admitted the mistake. I'm giving Eversince a pass for now. I don't like scott31337's posts so far. His late entrance is very strange, I'm not used to him ignoring a game for so long after it began. He also didn't explain his reads, and followed thread sentiment. I don't see any real contributions from him so far. He doesn't seem to be trying to solve the game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 17 2015 05:21 NocturneMage wrote: Eh.....Let me try and take a pass at Breshke. On a first read, it's a null but there are a few caveats. I took no issue with Breshke's filter so far from his reads alone. 333 and 377 (at least the first half) would warrant a town lean. 386 indicates he doesn't care what ritoky thinks. Alright. Here's where the potential problem comes in. I checked his posts relative to events in the thread. He asks a question about Trfel but as far as I can tell doesn't take a stance on Trfel, and I can go either way on that depending on what he would have done with that question. He doesn't take a stance on geript or VE but he talks about them "grilling" the Shining. Now here's the issue, geript is heavily involved in the game, VE is heavily involved in the game, Moosy had a really bad post before his response on the Shining to ritoky but that goes either missed or ignored. So this leads me to think Breshke is playing a "safe" game or might be taking that approach, and not wanting to draw attention/ruffle feathers/whatever you want to call it is a scum trait. I'm not familiar with how he plays the game so my read could just be way off target, but just looking at context alone, I have some concern he is focusing on the wrong things for the wrong reasons. (yes I checked the database, he's not inexperienced either) So I think until I see more from him on especially people being discussed as lynchables, I think it's a scumlean for him. thoughts? Breshke has a playstyle much like my own. He doesn't post very much, he doesn't lead the thread or push things, but when he says something, it's generally really really insightful and helpful. Breshke's only made four posts so far this game. The first post was a very good catch, and something that I'm definitely keeping in mind. I do like his read on The Shining, as well. He's also right in that The Shining's "statement of activity" isn't alignment indicative, because The Shining is extremely defensive (even as town) and posts that every single game he plays. So, his first post is insightful, as is his second post. His third post explains his second post (responding to ritoky's question), and his fourth post is a joke. I'm not really sure what you're getting at? Am I misunderstanding your post? I don't see how you can say that a player with only four posts is playing "safe" or not? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 17 2015 05:32 disformation wrote: Scott31337 didn't explain his reads, though. All he really said is that he didn't understand my post, and provided a bunch of weird reads on everyone else.I'm going ahead and respond to both of that. Since I remember scott as someone who does not post a lot, I don't think his late entry is alignment indicative. I kinda liked his entry because he was explained were he was at after catching up to the thread fairly well. Yeah, it was not that original. Maybe I am a bit biased because a lot of his views are very similar to mine... His sudden disappearance does worry me a bit though.. would like him to interact with a few ppl and/or to push his scum reads. While we are at that: ##vote MoosyDoosy @MoosyDoosy : Plx, explain your reads and answer my question. I also should maybe rethink my stance on VE since I pretty my like Trfel's case. I also do not feel like lynching Trfel atm. Here's disinformation's first two posts on me (Trfel): On November 16 2015 08:30 disformation wrote: Trfel.. kinda strange reaction to VE's uh... lets call it a poke. Not sure if his knee jerk reaction is maffay or town motivated. On November 17 2015 02:30 disformation wrote: Twenty minutes later (in which time I did not post), he posts this:Not enough to give Trfel a scum read, but I won't give him a town read either.  On November 17 2015 02:50 disformation wrote: So to summarize: ppl I currently don't like: MoosyDoosy, Trfel, FF On November 17 2015 03:06 disformation wrote: How did disformation get from "I don't know about Trfel" to "Trfel is a top lynch" without any posts from me or explanation in between?Should add at least a bit of reasoning: All three are in dire need of contributing more and have exhibited a bit of suspicious actions. (MoosyDoosy buggering off without explaining his reads, Trefel explained a few posts above and FF being lurky as hell, with minimal contributions.) Combined with the random townread of scott31337, I'm suspicious. One more thing to add, disformation's been very active this game post-wise, but hasn't provided many reads. The first time he provided reads was when someone asked him. He seems to be excited to play, chomping at the bit to start the game, but instead of playing he's mostly commenting and questioning, and seems to be somewhat avoiding sharing his own reads. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 17 2015 05:46 NocturneMage wrote: So you're saying that Breshke is suspicious because he's not focusing on the important things in the thread, at the time that he was there?So let me re-word this. It's not activity that makes him safe. It's his activity within the context of the thread. Let me break it down. So what you need to do is go to where Breshke is commenting as other events are happening in the thread. Why does he focus on a Shining meta when especially in your eyes VE has done much worse and been more active. As in why does he focus on one event but not another? How does he miss Moosy who is quite scummy with his entrance? Look at the placement of the posts relative to the thread. That's what I'm saying. Again, I could be off target, if your experience on him is correct. It's not something that would have me pushing his lynch but it makes me question where his focus or how his focus is directed. Am I making sense here? I guess my question back to you is, how do you determine what the important things in the thread are? Isn't that a matter of opinion? I'll take a look at the context again, this kind of read is definitely valid and can be very powerful, but it's also extremely subjective, which makes it so, so difficult to apply correctly. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 17 2015 05:58 NocturneMage wrote: You have a point with the second sentence but when you read Breshke's filter, he talks about geript and VE "grilling" him. So he mentions them at the very least. It can be assumed that he's at least read and he makes a read on Shining but fails to take a stance on geript and VE. Now, I realise there are a lot of Americans in this game and maybe the word "grilling" has a different meaning or a different context to some people but he clearly has an opinion on what is happening but doesn't focus on VE one way whereas other people are. He even says geript taunts him (post 377) but doesn't focus further. Like in his world, something should have tipped him off. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. MoosyDoosy was not quite as active so he might get a pass if he may have failed to notice but On November 17 2015 06:00 NocturneMage wrote: Breshke, please answer this.edit: last sentence at Trfel - Moosy not quite as active, but there's no way he couldn't have followed up on VE/geript. NocturneMage, I think I see what you're getting at now. I'd like to see Breshke answer first. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 17 2015 06:07 disformation wrote: Looking closer, I think I see what you're saying in the first part. I misinterpreted your post about the people you don't like.Meh. Hm? Well you just happend to be one the three ppl I liked the least. My suspicions on you were posted. Also don't think my town lean on scott is random, but I should probably rethink scott, if he continues to not post. I also don't understand the bold part... if commenting and questioning is not playing, then can you please explain how to play? My words were poorly chosen there, playing does include commenting and questioning, I should have said "pushing". Do you have any thoughts on Fecalfeast's latest post(s)? (I forget how many posts he made and I'm too lazy to look) | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
His recent posts point to the former. On November 17 2015 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Trfel stop failing and find mafia. On November 17 2015 05:54 VisceraEyes wrote: First post suggests that I'm town, second post suggests that I'm mafia (I didn't post in between). No conclusion at all, no push. No comments on anything else, didn't even respond to my case.Like repeatedly failing to see what most everyone else sees, that I'm town and winning, is making you look slow. You're not a slow guy are you Trfel? | ||
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Trfel
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Trfel
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On November 17 2015 07:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Which of your posts were jokes and which of your posts were serious?Like I'm not responding to your case because you have decided on a conclusion and you are twisting everything to fit that narrative. You don't even consider a Towne motivation, you are just sure I'm mafia. And you are wrong. So yes, I'm not wasting time responding to a case when A) is not convincing anyone and B) it wouldn't make a difference one way or the other where you are concerned. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Last question (I think), can you please specify who you like and who you don't (as described by the bolded portion of the above quote)?I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. | ||
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