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On August 30 2015 10:03 Trfel wrote:
The problem is that much of Vivax's filter feels like he's genuinely trying to solve the game.
But his push on me feels scummy when you know my alignment grrrr
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Justanothertownie, assuming you are town:
1. You are actually good at this game.
2. I am not. You know that I am not, because you constantly berate me in Obs QTs and post-game. Remember how I threw Gaiden 1, and you kept picking on me in the Obs QT for it?
3. Instead of talking about pointless things like my own alignment, why not actually tell me what you think about Vivax, and why? Since you're actually good at this game, and I'm not. If you think I'm town, you should help me. If you think I'm mafia, you should do things that actually show this, like why my actual reads/pushes of importance are wrong and mafia motivated.
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Sorry, it just annoys me when people criticize random things that I say and then completely ignore me when I'm trying to actually do something.
Off for a while.
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On August 30 2015 10:06 Trfel wrote:
Justanothertownie, assuming you are town:
1. You are actually good at this game.
2. I am not. You know that I am not, because you constantly berate me in Obs QTs and post-game. Remember how I threw Gaiden 1, and you kept picking on me in the Obs QT for it?
3. Instead of talking about pointless things like my own alignment, why not actually tell me what you think about Vivax, and why? Since you're actually good at this game, and I'm not. If you think I'm town, you should help me. If you think I'm mafia, you should do things that actually show this, like why my actual reads/pushes of importance are wrong and mafia motivated.
1. Not for me to judge.
2. Did I? Could be.
3. What I am trying to understand is why you do not question Palmars townread on you. It is way to strong way to early and never changing. If I were you I would be extremely paranoid about it. And the other way round it doesn't make any sense for Palmar to be this sure about you.
I will maybe reevaluate Vivax tomorrow, currently I am giving some credit to rsoultins read on him. Now it is after 3 am and I am extremely intoxicated. Will go to sleep.
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On August 30 2015 10:08 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, it just annoys me when people criticize random things that I say and then completely ignore me when I'm trying to actually do something.
Off for a while.
+1000000 THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO ME ALL GAME IOWJ2J31IJ
Also you are correct that some of Vivax's play looks like he's trying to solve the game (I.E. his pressure on you) it's just this push on me I know is incredible bad.
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If I die, for god sake's reevaluate KSC. His play is so weird with me being town. See WoS post about one of me / KSC being scum.
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Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it?
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On August 30 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it?
I personally feel that this is irrelevant but feel free to continue with this train of thought.
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On August 30 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it?
Sounds like you think rsoultin is/was full of shit. Besides her considering you scum, what do you disagree with and why? If you can't sufficiently answer this then you have no right to complain about how or where jat gets his reads from and you should be ashamed of yourself for raising a useless point (or should be scum).
Jat, I'll leave it to you to actually answer this question though I suspect it's fairly straightforward.
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On August 30 2015 12:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it? Sounds like you think rsoultin is/was full of shit. Besides her considering you scum, what do you disagree with and why? If you can't sufficiently answer this then you have no right to complain about how or where jat gets his reads from and you should be ashamed of yourself for raising a useless point (or should be scum). Jat, I'll leave it to you to actually answer this question though I suspect it's fairly straightforward. 1. The question isn't what I think of rsoultin's play/reads, the question is what justanothertownie thinks of rsoultin's play and reads.
I'm glad that of all the things you could do, you chose to comment on something that I said is probably not significant. For your information, I left that there in case someone did find it significant, I don't care if you find it meaningless.
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Vivax
Vivax's scumread of me (Trfel)
+ Show Spoiler +On August 27 2015 18:33 Vivax wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out if he's just faking things really really badly or pretending to be dumb on purpose. Both of these things are indicative of me being mafia. But why isn't he pushing me as mafia at this point? On August 28 2015 04:37 Vivax wrote:
I don't really feel this jat wagon, plus it's his birthday. His list of lynchables is pretty much exactly where I'm at (Trfel/WoS/Mr CC), rest feels like policy (I would add BF to that) but that's never a bad shot on D1.
What's alarming is that the leaders of Jat's wagon aren't really here to reconsider with all this new information, I'm especially expecting Palmar to reconsider things, given marv's timing of the vote I'd expect him to be quite sure about his decision already, so I'm curious on that front too.
I feel like Trfel has been really stiff in his play so far, contrary to the things he did as town like claiming scum at SoD he has been feeling very artificial this game. Palmar for some reason believes he's town, I want to see it.
##Vote Trfel Why does he mention Palmar's townread on me in this post? Does he not want to address me with his scumread? He has enough information to be actually pushing me here. It feels like he is being aggressive for the purpose of being aggressive here, not actually trying to push a scumread. The funny thing is that despite always making more reasons to lynch me, he doesn't really push me all that much. Not when it matters. Not at all on Day 2. He's just content with lynching Mr. Cheesecake (more on this later).
Vivax's read progression on boxerfred
+ Show Spoiler +On August 28 2015 04:37 Vivax wrote:
I don't really feel this jat wagon, plus it's his birthday. His list of lynchables is pretty much exactly where I'm at (Trfel/WoS/Mr CC), rest feels like policy (I would add BF to that) but that's never a bad shot on D1. Boxerfred is a policy lynch. The only post that boxerfred makes after this (in the thread) is this one: On August 28 2015 05:18 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 04:34 KelsierSC wrote:On August 28 2015 04:33 boxerfred wrote:On August 28 2015 04:21 justanothertownie wrote:On August 28 2015 04:17 boxerfred wrote:
##vote justanothertownie ^ You should probably justify this soon. At this point I have produced by far the most content in this game. I received a PM that reminded me of voting, you're the wagon, have no time until tomorrow. well you're here now and you are being a fucking retard #sorrynotsorry After this post, Vivax tries to get support for lynching me. On August 28 2015 05:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 05:32 deconduo wrote:On August 28 2015 05:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 28 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:
i'm gonna end up spite lynching one of hopeless and bf and it will be terrible Well, or one of them is scum. (or both lol) Is there any reason to lynch BF over hopeless? Hopeless has been worse on every count as far as I can tell. Do explain in detail, we need to consolidate. Can I warm you up for a Trfel lynch? BF and hopeless feel more craphshooty than him. He basically says that boxerfred and Hopeless1der are random lynches, and that he doesn't want to take them. On August 28 2015 06:21 Vivax wrote:
Boxer isn't voting and if he ninjavotes he's an easy catch on D2. And now he says that boxerfred ninjavoting makes him mafia. This is where Vivax's scumread completely breaks down. Boxerfred's filter is here. He said that he didn't have time to play until tomorrow, voted on the biggest wagon because he got a PM that told him that he needed to vote, and that he isn't sorry. Vivax feels that this is not alignment indicative. However, why is ninja voting alignment indicative at all? It's not. Had he remembered to vote the first time, he wouldn't ninja vote at all. As it is, if he is town, he gets yet another PM from the host, which likely makes him go and actually vote. Ninja voting here fits exactly with boxerfred's play so far from a town perspective, and logically is no scummier than anything boxerfred has already done, which Vivax doesn't want to lynch him for. Then boxerfred votes in the voting thread, and Vivax pushes him. On August 28 2015 06:22 Vivax wrote:
Yeah I'm voting boxerfred for the ninja now On August 28 2015 06:25 Vivax wrote:
Also the fact he remains silent with all these votes on him feels very reassuring. Vivax no longer wants to vote for me (his strongest scumread for basically all of the day) to vote for boxerfred. However, even with the lynch being close between boxerfred and Hopeless1der, Vivax doesn't push boxerfred at all. He's still around, just seemingly not caring about the lynch. I do not understand how town!Vivax can have a strong scumread on me, be null on boxerfred, and then when boxerfred ninja votes (which is not alignment indicative, as previously demonstrated), Vivax decides to vote for boxerfred even when someone else is trying to get a wagon on me and then not seem to care if boxerfred is lynched over Hopeless1der or not.
Other Things
+ Show Spoiler +I feel like VIvax is more invested in being townread than pushing for the lynches that he wants. He plays at the start of the game, but once he starts getting townread he lets up the pressure on me (a relatively hard target) and lynches boxerfred instead (a relatively easy target), despite what his posts would have had you expect. Then on Day 2, his posting drops significantly and he easily goes along with the Mr. Cheesecake wagon. With the thread mostly inactive (marvellosity, justanothertownie, and Palmar busy on the weekend, WaveofShadow and rsoultin night killed) and the lynch not decided, I would expect town!Vivax to start being more active and leading the thread. He has scumreads and loves to lead town when he's needed to do so. But he's willing to relax and not do anything.
I think that Vivax is capable of this play as mafia, and I think that his play is mafia-motivated. I don't see desire to lead the thread and push his preferred lynches.
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KelsierSC
Change of opinion on early argument between justanothertownie and rsoultin/Palmar about Trfel
+ Show Spoiler +On August 26 2015 20:26 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 20:11 justanothertownie wrote:Yeah? I would like to know what's the point of this when marv had done absolutely nothing at that point in time: On August 26 2015 13:21 Trfel wrote:
Otherwise, I'm interested to see what Palmar has to say about marvellosity. VE made the point about marv playing like palmar and trefl was questioning him plus marv was a point of contention so the question isn't really that strange. So marvellosity is a point of contention, and I (Trfel) was responding to a comment that someone else made, so my question isn't strange. On August 26 2015 20:33 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 20:30 justanothertownie wrote:On August 26 2015 20:26 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2015 20:11 justanothertownie wrote:Yeah? I would like to know what's the point of this when marv had done absolutely nothing at that point in time: On August 26 2015 13:21 Trfel wrote:
Otherwise, I'm interested to see what Palmar has to say about marvellosity. VE made the point about marv playing like palmar and trefl was questioning him plus marv was a point of contention so the question isn't really that strange. Yes, it is. I have no idea what about this is interesting to Trfel when marv had posted exactly those posts at that time: On August 26 2015 07:25 marvellosity wrote:
heya On August 26 2015 08:50 marvellosity wrote:
this is delightful. There is no way Trfel seriously expects Palmar to be able to make any kind of conclusion about marv based on this. mhmm maybe...i'd be interested to see what trefl says to you being interested in the post he made about being interested But maybe it's interesting? What? On August 26 2015 22:02 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 22:00 justanothertownie wrote:On August 26 2015 21:58 rsoultin wrote:On August 26 2015 21:56 justanothertownie wrote:On August 26 2015 21:44 Palmar wrote:On August 26 2015 20:11 justanothertownie wrote:Yeah? I would like to know what's the point of this when marv had done absolutely nothing at that point in time: On August 26 2015 13:21 Trfel wrote:
Otherwise, I'm interested to see what Palmar has to say about marvellosity. This is blatantly attacking something that's super simple to explain for no reason. Jat clearly #1 lynch I would argue that it's the only relevant thing brought up in this thread so far. But if it's so easy to explain then go ahead and do it. truffle should but it is that's why it's boring you brought it up to begin with zzz unless truffle doesn't state the obvious that everyone should see, then it would be interesting i'm almost done with breakfast ^^ which means y'all won't have to deal with me for much longer. you can throw a ticker tape parade! (is that how that's spelled?) Let me clarify - I don't think it is possible to reasonably explain this at all. I mean we can see what he comes up with but the fact that he posted this is probably way more indicative than whatever justification he comes up with. i'm probably going to see the justification before i judge it. And he's withholding judgement until I explain it, when he's already provided a perfectly reasonable explanation himself? Especially when he already made a townread on me? I don't understand why he's waiting for this, it feels like a way to not fully commit to his initial townread of me. On August 26 2015 23:50 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 23:48 justanothertownie wrote:On August 26 2015 23:45 marvellosity wrote:On August 26 2015 23:44 justanothertownie wrote:On August 26 2015 23:40 marvellosity wrote:On August 26 2015 23:39 justanothertownie wrote:On August 26 2015 22:22 rsoultin wrote:
no it means the reason for your townread is bad, and if the reason for your townread is bad and there are reasons to think he's mafia you shouldn't be an rsoul and wait until the night before lylo to go oh shit i'm a numbnuts and now the guy who always wants to lynch me in lylo has to be convinced i'm just a numbnuts and not mafia and we should lynch the guy i was derping on @.@
He shouldn't townread me for that, true. But please don't try to make it look like you have any real reason to think I am mafia because you really don't. she kinda does, what she wrote is fair enough tbh. No, she kinda doesn't. I value my own opinion higher than this? What? I am literally saying that I am right and Palmar/rsoultin are wrong and I will keep saying it. about having very little of note to say. You know that this does not make me mafia if there simply hasn't been anything else of note to say. Who did have things of note to say so far besides me? Noone really. Because Palmar and rsoultin are calling me mafia for the best observation that has been made so far and that is basically everything that happened so far scumhuntingwise. this is actually a good point things have moved on a bit, you have any reads? Wait, what? Look at the nested quote from justanothertownie, this read makes no sense. Justanothertownie says that there hasn't been anything else interesting, but KelsierSC is saying that things have moved on and asking for other reads. Justanothertownie is calling his early question to me the best observation of the game, while KelsierSC is townreading me, already provided a valid explanation, and is wanting to delay talking about this observation until I return to the thread. But he says that justanothertownie's point is good?!?! He disagrees with everything that justanothertownie said in tihs post. On August 26 2015 23:57 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 23:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Meh I think JAT is town and Palmar can lick a [redacted] lamppost in wintertime. mhmm why? i don't know if he is mafia but he's on probation From "I don't like the case on jat" to this? For little/no reason? It feels like KelsierSC was defending justanothertownie from (supposedly) temporary pressure, but then as the pressure became clearly very serious, KelsierSC became more willing to join it. Feels like he's trying to give himself the option of lynching justanothertownie if the wagon stays strong. It just seems opportunistic.
This is all I really have. Other than this, I don't feel like KelsierSC's filter is very content dense. Generally, I feel like KelsierSC gives a lot of strong, aggressive pushes and insightful comments, but I don't see very many of these here. However, in a high activity game with a ton of really good players, it can be much harder to be the first to say something (and let's be honest, it's generally impractical to actually get a push going in a game with marvellosity without getting his support first). I don't really feel like I can townread KelsierSC, but I definitely don't want to lynch him today.
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First of all, I'm probably not going to be able to do much more before the lynch. I'll have at best an hour and a half to catch up with everything that happens after I go to bed. Maybe less.
So I need to say this now.
Mr. Cheesecake
Current (Unofficial) Vote Count
Mr. Cheesecake (4): marvellosity, justanothertownie, VisceraEyes, MoosyDoosy
Vivax (1): Mr. Cheesecake
All four of the people voting for Mr. Cheesecake are generally townread, I'd say it's quite likely that all four are town.
Assuming that this is true, mafia is very disinterested in voting for Mr. Cheesecake (suggesting that this is not a bus), and doesn't care to start another wagon (suggesting that they are okay with Mr. Cheesecake being lynched). The only way that Mr. Cheesecake is mafia here is if his teammates have zero thread presence, which I find unlikely given that he's seemingly been putting a lot of effort into defending himself. Even if one of the people on the wagon is mafia, the point stands.
+ Show Spoiler +Note that I do have some reservations about justanothertownie and VisceraEyes, though no one else seems to and I realize that I am almost certainly being stupid, even if I don't know exactly why. I'll deal with it later.
Even before reading his filter, this makes me very hesitant to lynch Mr. Cheesecake.
And for those of you who say "but this point is invalid because you're bringing it up, and you're mafia!", you're wrong, so deal with it.
As for that meta point on Mr. Cheesecake, things change over time. I don't think that Mr. Cheesecake's meta from two years ago is very applicable here. However, having overly "constructed" or "correct" posts is potentially a valid argument.
As for the argument of Mr. Cheesecake's early townread on justanothertownie showing too much information, I disagree. I find it more suspicious that he wavered on this townread, but he's clear in his explanation and I can definitely see it coming from town (and he explained it exactly so).
Many of his reads line up with mine, and he got there first (though this doesn't say much, given how stupid I am and my read accuracy  ). And I don't think that any of the inconsistencies people have pointed out are all that big of a deal.
Plus, his frustration feels truly genuine. I'm aware that he could be trying to pocket me, and if so, it worked T.T
Ok, most of it's just the vote count, and that he's just putting a lot of effort into this game. His posts show critical thinking and he does seem to be trying to solve the game. And he's reasonably willing to push his reads.
I'd give him a town lean here, not accounting for the risk of me being pocketed. But I don't think I want to lynch him.
List Post
Because I'm not sure it's clear where I stand on everyone after all of this. "Standard" format this time, most town to most scum.
marvellosity
Palmar
MoosyDoosy
justanothertownie
Mr. Cheesecake
VisceraEyes
Hopeless1der
KelsierSC
deconduo (and yes, I know about the green check)
Vivax
##vote Vivax
Open to any questions/comments, honestly would love to discuss the game with people. Though I may not have time to answer most questions until after the lynch.
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On August 30 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it?
What a stupid and useless question once again.
In what way would her read on me have anything to do with her read on other people? Does being wrong on me mean she is wrong on everything? No.
And more importantly while she generally hasn't got a read on me she is way more confident and better in reading Vivax and Trfel for example. Why would I ignore that only because she has been wrong on me day1? Justify this shitty question.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Vote Count
Mr. Cheesecake (4): Marvellosity, justanothertownie, VisceraEyes, MoosyDoosy
Vivax (2): Mr. Cheesecake, Trfel
Not Voting (5): Vivax, Hopeless1der, Deconduo, KelsierSC, Palmar
Currently, Mr. Cheesecake is set to be lynched. Day ends at Sunday, Aug 30 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
Voting is mandatory! Voting is done in the voting thread: (link)
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On August 30 2015 04:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 04:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay so if marv's claim is true (I have no reason to doubt it unless there's some sort of other claim, and even then...) then that just basically makes the game a little easier FMP. I was doubting decon late yesterday, especially coming in and calling me town super late yesterday for making posts he agreed with without really saying which ones. With him clear I'm looking at lynching outside of:
VE
marv...\
decon./
JAT
Moosy
I promised I'd make an effort to reevaluate Palmar and Trfel, so I'm going to add them to the no-lynch list today as well as I accommodate that. Leaving us lynching into this pool (again, from my perspective):
Vivax
KelsierSC
Mr. Cheesecake
Hopeless1der
In spite of me reevaluating Palmar/Trfel, Vivax seems to have been having many of the same thoughts as me over the course of the game, or at the very least coming to some of the same conclusions, so I'll state up front that I want to lynch him the least.
Cheesecake is an anomoly. I really badly want to townread Cheesecake, but my guts tell me that's a bad thing. Well, my guts, my personal experience with him and marv twittering in my ear stating the same thing. Generally speaking it would make me a little suspicious, marv using this heuristic, but given that it's Cheese and given that marv has claimed cop, I have to at least factor in that I think that AS TOWN, marv thinks Cheese is suspicious for sounding townie. Further, Cheese seems to KNOW I'm town in his posting, from how he "understands why VE would find" him suspicious to how his formatting seems to mimic JAT, someone VE has hard townread, it all feels like a direct appeal to someone who is familiar with his meta. Or maybe that's just my ego. At any rate, Cheese is one I'd be interested in lynching today.
Kelsier is hard for me to read in general. I'm pretty sure I've always had a hard time reading him, and that trend continues this game. But again, he seems to share my thought process on some important reads, and he seems to openly disagree with others, so for now I'm throwing him in the town pile.
As I said earlier, Hopeless felt scummy yesterday to me, more so than boxerfred. I would have preferred a Hopeless lynch yesterday, and here we are today, Hopeless still alive and barely posting. The only thing that gives me pause is how many people seem to be just fine with a Hopeless lynch. But honestly the votes don't actually reflect that so maybe I'm just imagining things. I'm still fine with a Hopeless lynch today.
With that I'm going to go ahead and throw my weight behind the Cheesecake lynch but I'm conflicted because, a) because I like marv and JAT but b) the people openly stating they're okay with a Hopeless lynch are the ones piddle-dicking around and not voting, which makes me think that vote is better in general. I'd like to hear marv and JAT's thoughts on the matter in particular, but everyone is welcome to give input. tbh, both kels and vivax are too hard to read this early which is why lynching into them is too risky. i would do it if there was harder evidence but there isn't. :/ unfortunately, wat marv says leaves us with hopeless/mr. cc.
I'm not really hard to read. How do you get to this conclusion? Isn't this the first time we play together? Cause as far as I know it is and I don't know how you got to make this statement.
What stands out to me with more relevance to the current wagon now is that Palmar got suddenly scumread by CC but I don't know why except that he says he's playing abysmally when in previous posts he kept repeating that he couldn't tell if he was bad town or mafia. So I would like to know what got him confident on his Palmar being scum theory, it feels like he only changed his opinion cause I accused him of not doing it.
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Ugh. The thing is that Mr. Cheesecake's filter is filled with random and useless questions that look like he's attempting to place an agenda on anybody but I liked his responses to interrogation in general.
Is anyone around to talk?
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On August 30 2015 14:39 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 12:44 Hopeless1der wrote:On August 30 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it? Sounds like you think rsoultin is/was full of shit. Besides her considering you scum, what do you disagree with and why? If you can't sufficiently answer this then you have no right to complain about how or where jat gets his reads from and you should be ashamed of yourself for raising a useless point (or should be scum). Jat, I'll leave it to you to actually answer this question though I suspect it's fairly straightforward. 1. The question isn't what I think of rsoultin's play/reads, the question is what justanothertownie thinks of rsoultin's play and reads. I'm glad that of all the things you could do, you chose to comment on something that I said is probably not significant. For your information, I left that there in case someone did find it significant, I don't care if you find it meaningless.
Sick dodge bro. You're either tearing down a confirmed townies reads or your trying to call jat scum and I'm not sure which. Either way, I don't like what you're doing.
On August 27 2015 22:52 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 08:07 Trfel wrote:
Not sure if I want to lynch justanothertownie, but currently leaning towards no?
Don't really have time to filter dive right now.
I want to lynch Hopeless1der.
##vote Hopeless1der
Leaning towards town on MoosyDoosy and VisceraEyes. Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 17:59 Trfel wrote:Reads from Trfel! + Show Spoiler [Pointless Fluff] +Yes, the section of my post marked "Pointless Fluff" is entirely necessary. You must read it. I've been listening to this song a lot over the past few days. I like it a lot. This one too. They're good songs, listen to them. It'll improve your scumhunting. Anyway, I'm kind of sad that I'm mostly able to play when most people are sleeping. How boring. So I'll just make a fancy list post. Palmar + Show Spoiler +I don't have a very good record of reading Palmar in the past. But I'm still pretty confident that Palmar is town here for the way he's been driven and focused. He's provided insightful comments and I like his push on justanothertownie. His tone also feels relaxed. I know this doesn't make him town, as he is capable of having a relaxed tone as mafia, but in this game his tone is most natural when he's giving reads on (arguably) harder-to-read players, which feels much harder to fake than normal relaxed tone. marvellosity + Show Spoiler +Marvellosity is definitely capable of tricking me, but I feel he's likely town here. If he isn't, it should be more clear in a few days, anyway.
Marvellosity feels more driven here than as mafia in Assassination Mafia, where he played well enough to avoid being lynched and have some thread presence, but was not above suspicion. Given how much he enjoys playing mafia, I wouldn't really expect him to increase his effort compared to that game. MoosyDoosy + Show Spoiler +On August 26 2015 22:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 22:42 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2015 22:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
wait Marv what is your read on JAT? Like me, you didn't think his question was dumb The question wasn't the best question ever but I don't think the case on him is that good at the moment it comes down to that q and him not being "jatty" Yeah this. I don't really see much on JAT. If he's mafia, he'll still be mafia later in the day anyway. I think we should focus on Trfel rite now. On August 26 2015 22:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 22:45 rsoultin wrote:On August 26 2015 22:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:On August 26 2015 22:42 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2015 22:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
wait Marv what is your read on JAT? Like me, you didn't think his question was dumb The question wasn't the best question ever but I don't think the case on him is that good at the moment it comes down to that q and him not being "jatty" Yeah this. I don't really see much on JAT. If he's mafia, he'll still be mafia later in the day anyway. I think we should focus on Trfel rite now. truffle's probably town with the stipulation that he didn't make me laugh :/ I'd still like an answer to why he asked for an opinion on marv when there was literally almost nothing that marv had posted. I feel like it's getting punted to the side while people are trying to kill JAT. These posts don't really make sense. Why does he want to talk about me (Trfel), when all he wants is an answer to my question? That's not something he can get while I'm not present. He seems to realize that discussing me at this time doesn't help with anything, and doesn't mention me for quite some time. I don't find his interactions with WaveofShadow scummy. But this post: On August 26 2015 23:45 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 23:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Moosy you never substantiated on your wave!town read His willingness to call out rsoul and his direct manner when he posts. tone reads basically is all wrong. The majority of WaveofShadow's posts at this point were jokes. He never called rsoultin out, and jokes can't really be seen as having a direct manner. The only things he directly committed to are finding scum and voting for marvellosity (which clearly wasn't a hard commitment, as expected). This post doesn't make much sense. I would like an explanation from MoosyDoosy (tone doesn't align with direct manner and calling out rsoultin when the posts are jokes). Tone seems very relaxed and seems to show a town mindset. In general, his thought process and reads match and are sensible. KelsierSC + Show Spoiler +The downside is that KelsierSC is quite good as mafia. He showed this in Gaiden 1.
I like his questioning to MoosyDoosy about his townread of WaveofShadow, but he drops it before reaching a real conclusion based on this.
I'm fine with this read for now, anyway. Mr. Cheesecake + Show Spoiler +I'm sleepy.
A lot of it's tone, and I don't feel like his reads are too constructed/clean/correct. Though this is a weak read. rsoultin + Show Spoiler +I refuse to be wrong on rsoultin. I can accomplish that by not giving a read. (Plus I'm sleepy, basically always think rsoultin is town, and don't think that rsoultin is a good lynch today even if I found a few things that made me suspicious) VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler +First he votes for WaveofShadow, and then decides to change his vote to MoosyDoosy based on how MoosyDoosy kept talking to WaveofShadow. On August 27 2015 00:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay so I filtered Moosy, and the reason I thought he was one of the Wave pushers is because of the sheer number of times he mentions Wave's name, but it's in the context of "I want to hear from Wave" or "Game so hard w/o Wave" etc.
Based on this, I think it's actually more likely that Wave is town and Moosy is like, appealing to him or something. Trying to slip him in his pocket. Only problem with that is that he and Wave are like, TLLOLOTDT buddies, so it's not unreasonable to think that he's doing this as town....I just get a really bad feeling off Moosy.
The flip on marv. Ummmmmm.....I can see that from a mafia perspective. Especially if he's not super aware of Marv's meta, maybe his partners were like "WHOA BUDDY, BETTER TURN THAT SHIT AROUND" after he posted about lynching marv. Marv's right though, in a vacuum it seems townie.
Eeehhhhhhh....I like it better than an AFK Wave vote anyway. Certainly better than a JAT vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: MoosyDoosy This isn't a convincing case at all. VisceraEyes starts out by saying that he thinks that MoosyDoosy is pocketing WaveofShadow, but this is reasonable from town, but he gets a bad feeling anyway. Then he says that he can see something that can be considered towny may be able to come from a mafia perspective. And then he says it's better than voting for someone who is AFK. Which results in a vote on MoosyDoosy. VisceraEyes doesn't seem convinced by his own case. And he's downplaying his earlier vote on WaveofShadow, which felt really out of place anyway. I don't understand why he voted for WaveofShadow in the first place. The strength he places in his WaveofShadow read seems to vary a lot: On August 27 2015 00:10 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 00:05 marvellosity wrote:On August 27 2015 00:04 marvellosity wrote:On August 27 2015 00:02 VisceraEyes wrote:On August 27 2015 00:01 Palmar wrote:On August 26 2015 23:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Meh I think JAT is town and Palmar can lick a [redacted] lamppost in wintertime. WHO IS MAFIA THEN EINSTEIN? I kinda like the Wave sentiment. FMP, the people hanging in the background not taking a side on the issue are the suspicious ones with regard to the whole JAT thing. name names, babe ^ do this though. ##Vote: WaveofShadowBeyond that, Moosy is kinda not taking a side, which I find super strange, and there are several people who have yet to even post. On August 27 2015 00:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
[case on MoosyDoosy]
Eeehhhhhhh....I like it better than an AFK Wave vote anyway. Certainly better than a JAT vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: MoosyDoosy On August 27 2015 00:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
I didn't like Wave's entrance, worst in the thread besides marv's. Then he disappeared which I find to be extremely out of character for Wave. I'm interested to hear why you think I'm focusing around him so much though, I've spent WAY more posts trying to oppose a JAT lynch and appealing to marv and Palmar. On August 27 2015 02:01 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:59 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 27 2015 01:57 marvellosity wrote:On August 27 2015 01:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
No wait.
Dumb.
Shadow game. yes, how could you forget one of my most comprehensive mafia triumphs  Yeh that was a very good one. One of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of playing in. Marv do you not think that VE has similar cohones to me in that he does not fear taking you/Palmar on as scum? I don't think Palmar's OMGUS has any particular true reason behind it but I don't think VE is ruled out. Wait wait wait, have you even READ my posts? I've had nearly an IDENTICAL thought process as you have based on your posts, and you're not ruling me out? Are you fucking mafia Wave?!?!? VisceraEyes transitions from voting for WaveofShadow to seemingly being surprised and not having considered that WaveofShadow could be mafia. Hopeless1der + Show Spoiler +He generally doesn't play as mafia. He was mafia last game, didn't play, and died. This game, he said he would play, confirmed, and then hasn't posted anything yet. justanothertownie + Show Spoiler +Not going to repeat everything that's been mentioned about him. But I find it very hard to get a read on him because it seems like justanothertownie is a player who is very self-confident and prides himself in always being right. Thus, when people disagree with him and push him all game, I can see him getting caught up arguing with them when it clearly isn't going anywhere, I can see him constantly insulting and throwing scum on people he later says are probably town, I can see him sort of playing like this. In the end, I'm torn. I think that his play is objectively bad, but I'm not sure if that makes him scum here. The biggest problem I have with him is that he simply isn't pushing his reads. Here's justanothertownie's filter with only the read progression (only including the main scum reads, excluding all of the stuff to rsoultin/Palmar due to previously mentioned reasons) On August 26 2015 20:11 justanothertownie wrote:Yeah? I would like to know what's the point of this when marv had done absolutely nothing at that point in time: Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 13:21 Trfel wrote:
Otherwise, I'm interested to see what Palmar has to say about marvellosity. He goes on to explain this several more times, and say that it is the best thing mentioned in the thread.
On August 27 2015 01:01 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, Wave is voting me because Palmar caught HIM as mafia in the past. Makes a huge post and talks about everything but me except for this statement. This might be the first mafia joining the push.
On August 27 2015 02:18 justanothertownie wrote:
Currently I would look for scum between WoS, Trfel, Moosy and possibly CC between the people that have posted a little. Why MoosyDoosy? (not throwing suspicion, actually wondering, and a note to self (that I probably will forget about) to look into this)
On August 27 2015 02:23 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 02:22 Palmar wrote:On August 27 2015 02:18 justanothertownie wrote:
Well, I am leaving now. It is wednesday and wednesday night is pubquiz time. Maybe I will return for a short while later, maybe I won't. Can make any promises about tomorrows activity since it is my birthday.
When I return I will flat out ignore any further bullshit brought up against me unless I think it is alignment indicative.
Currently I would look for scum between WoS, Trfel, Moosy and possibly CC between the people that have posted a little. Explain exactly why you think CC is mafia. He is a little too correct I think. Very very clean posts. This is interesting, because this is the opposite impression I got from Mr. Cheesecake at this time. When later questioned on this, justanothertownie used an example that happened after this post was made.
Between the start of the game and this post, Mr. Cheesecake said the following (abbreviated):
+ Show Spoiler +Rsoultin is town for tone
MoosyDoosy is town for claiming VT
Palmar and marvellosity are probably town
KelsierSC is probably mafia
Justanothertownie is probably town
Goes back a little on his reason to townread justanothertownie
I'm labeling this list very subjectively. Strikethrough reads are reads that are easy to make (meaning that they are low risk reads for mafia, in that they won't have repercussions and likely won't be questioned later, or are just obvious). Red reads are reads that justanothertownie disagreed with.
Assuming that justanothertownie thinks that his own reads are correct, Mr. Cheesecake didn't actually make any reads that are significant that aligned with his own, except for saying that justanothertownie is town.
I don't see how justanothertownie sees Mr. Cheesecake's posts here as being clean or accurate.
And that's all that I see. What I don't see is an actual push. He's said the same point about me (Trfel) many times (saying it's one of the best things in the thread), and people have disagreed. But he hasn't said much about the rest of my play. He hasn't commented on a single thing I've done being towny, but he doesn't seem convinced that anything I've done outside of that one post makes me scum. I don't see him really pushing WaveofShadow, either. He said that WaveofShadow might be the first mafia joining the push [on himself], but never said more (other than agreeing with Mr. Cheesecake's posts about him). Justanothertownie hasn't seemed very motivated at trying to convince people or push one of his scumreads. He hasn't even voted yet. It almost feels like he's too frustrated to lead an actual push himself, and is throwing some suspicion and waiting to vote with whatever people like. Which is a mafia-motivated mindset. Not making much progress on WaveofShadow, going to just go to bed. I don't really feel like I want to lynch justanothertownie right now, though that could change. Also, it's funny how nicely my reads list matches the player list XD This is pretty strange. How do I go from a town lean to a mafia lean based on things that happened BEFORE the post where you townread me? You can't even really say that "Oh I didn't know about those things until I filtered" because you were literally THERE when the stuff with Wave was going on. Yet at one point you townread me and later on your mafia read me. WTF?
I really like this post from VE btw.
And when I consider how my "meta" has been abused this game by trfel and kelsier I'm calling that the scum team. There is a lot of back and forth between CC and Kelsier, so it feels kind of weird but the (incorrect) cases on wave are coloring my reads quite heavily.
Things like this from Wave: On August 27 2015 23:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
KSC also hinging on CCs nit-picking points as a reason to lynch me makes him look even worse imo.
He even voted me before CCs huge case iirc and now he uses that to justify
Rsoul I think it was with you we talked about ksc? And I think at the time I felt I was maybe being unreasonable and you convinced me. Still think the same about ksc?
ctrl+f "Vivax" in trfels filter
On August 28 2015 03:29 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 03:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Shenanigans lynch Vivax boys
##Vote: Vivax Hm, okay. ##vote Vivax
Was this a joke or something? He goes back to me a half hour later, but I have zero comprehension for how he was okay with voting vivax in the first place. As best I can tell, this was also thoroughly ignored when vivax brought it up earlier
tbh I'd rather go after KSC or trfel first, but thats not where the votes are, so:
##Vote: Mr.Cheesecake
(For RNGesus!)
I'll maybe be able to phone post towards eod
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Yea I asked you something. Would also help if you point out which questions you are referring to.
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Trfel is the only other player critically evaluating this game, he has to be town or we are fucked.
Vivax: I think ive had a lot more reserved, internal readings of Palmar than ive outwardly vocalized. I can understand why you dont see my read on him evolving, but focusing on that one read is not indicative of my alignment. Ive evaluated everyone as best i can thus far.
Im actually more convinced of KSC being mafia than Vivax, but i dont have time ornthe computer to post here at work.
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EPT
