EPTDo what Trfel did and case the host, vote him down.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/479252-mini-mafia-down-under-2?page=62#1221
Newbie Student Mafia VII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
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Do what Trfel did and case the host, vote him down. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/479252-mini-mafia-down-under-2?page=62#1221 | ||
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On March 17 2015 23:14 plotspot wrote: Thanks for the answers so far. I have a few other things I was wondering about like: Is a minimalistic game possible, where everyone is silent except for daily activities of voting and nightly activities of dispatching and other non-verbal functions? Assuming a yes, would such a game not favor the mafia, as no information is baited out from them through any sort of interaction whatsoever? I hope I can understand you correctly. Rules can be made such by the moderator in some of the veteran normals, but it's not the norm in most games at all, and silent nights (where posting is disallowed but night actions occur) never happen in these student games. But yeh I'd say they favour scumteam, and thankfully are rare. Also I think making goals for each game is a good idea Tronak, it's something I still do for myself. Also style of posting will change from student games to normal minis, so I think adaptability is key. But either way, right mindset in trying to make yourself more readable. | ||
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On March 18 2015 05:45 plotspot wrote: Ah ok, interesting. 20% (the actual number doesn't matter so much). So balance is indeed reached when both parties try to win. Does it mean that if the mafia is acting randomly instead of directionally, it also becomes a game of luck with the townsfolk winning 20% of the time? The problem I see for mafia to act randomly is that there will be cases where they have to explain themselves, and this will be difficult, unless they can really fit their apparent inconsistencies into a neat system. But they can randomly kill people, that is a valid strategy, right? So are there any comparison of success for random kill vs target kill strategies? Being naive to the game, I can imagine while it's good to prioritize targets, it also paves a way for others to recognize your motives. Maybe my English is bad at the moment, if I understand you right, I think you are misunderstanding balance. The hosts balance the game with typically 10 town and 3 scum in a game and give some sort of appropriate roles/abilities for certain people on each side. And regarding luck, and that's what the student games with coaches are for. If you RNG (randomly assigned) scum, you will have a scumteam coach that will teach you how to mislead town, your game relies on misconception/misdirection, that's your win condition. It's up to town to be able to detect that (you will hear a term called scumhunting in this forum) and there are many ways of doing so and when they do, they vote you down. There's filter reading and trying to trace inconsistency, voting analysis, process of elimination, etc. Just a few of many methods. There's no randomness to this. It's all subjective. At least not in a normal game. In more complicated themed games, there might be some more factor of randomness but for the purposes of this student game, no. Everyone has a defined wincon that is determined by their faction's collective strategy. Kills (nightkills) are never RNGed. If you are town vigilante at night you are asked to submit a target's name. If you are scumteam, you do the same. If you wish to yolo random your target, I mean, that's on you but it's obviously discouraged. | ||
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Would really prefer not to /in with Aperture 4 getting underway shortly. | ||
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/in | ||
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EDIT: nvm missed the DST correction post. Go me. | ||
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Need a fresh new start....*happy dance* | ||
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On April 07 2015 06:20 The Shining wrote: *secretly hoping someone doesn't confirm* Evil. | ||
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On April 07 2015 06:20 The Shining wrote: *secretly hoping someone doesn't confirm* Looks like you might be in luck. | ||
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On April 08 2015 21:15 The Shining wrote: I didn't do any voodoo or anything, I swear. *drops dead* ...from withdrawal, that is. EDIT: 12/13....omg yay!!!!! | ||
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On April 09 2015 01:52 Soren333 wrote: Has everyone confirmed yet? I'm dieing to play. OP says 12/13 and there is at least 1 replacement clamouring to play. *happy dance* | ||
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##vote Blazinghand Obligatory pre-game excuse: parts of this weekend will be yuck for me, but I will be around for EoD, and active otherwise. But otherwise, I'm stoked. I hope the first-timers are too  | ||
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On April 09 2015 07:05 Bourneq wrote: I'm nervous!! Don't be nervous. We won't bite On April 09 2015 06:24 Fecalfeast wrote: ##vote Half the Sky *sulks* I see how it is | ||
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On April 10 2015 00:48 rsoultin wrote: - pretty much any other metaread you can think of because people have yet to realize that my game is very flexible as both alignments xP Good luck with the uni visits. <3 I hear you on this. My activity has widely varied as all alignments and it's mainly because of my travelling for work. Even worse so on the weekends. i'll be home by day 2 though so then you'll see rsoul at full steam  Assuming your dear brother doesn't N1 you again hehe | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:03 Half the Sky wrote: Think you're nr 3 Bourneq, how does it feel to be playing in your first game at TL? Is that crickets I hear chirping? Bah, I must have scared him away. Anyone else around? | ||
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Ah, so your first ever mafia game, eh? | ||
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There's a bit of talk about video mafia around here, but unfortunately the times they have it are not EU friendly. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:06 prplhz wrote: i might or might not be scum any thoughts? I missed this post as I was typing. But why are you asking this question? I don't understand where it's going to get you....quite frankly as either alignment. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:09 Bourneq wrote: I am on a crappy phone and watching a movie so it just takes a while I hear you, I phone post a lot myself. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Hey, im not at least the last one Are you new to TL (mafia) too? Welcome either way. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:11 Bourneq wrote: My only experiance is watching ryuzilla and trump on twitch playing it. Looked like a blast! Well you're in for a treat if this really is first time ever for you, but there always has to be a first time for everything That said, what do you think of prplhz's comment? | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:08 prplhz wrote: i'm around why not talk to me seriously everybody hates me and i haven't a clue why am i reallly such a horrible person I don't think you're horrible (read: scum)....yet | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:14 Half the Sky wrote: That said, what do you think of prplhz's comment? EBWOP at Bourneq - specifically this: On April 10 2015 06:06 prplhz wrote: i might or might not be scum any thoughts? | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:15 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: First time playing. My only experience is SC2 arcade mafia that im playing right now while typing this Did LightningStrike bring you over here? I know he plays/played that format a bit. | ||
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I quoted after realising the fact - top of this page. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:19 Bourneq wrote: Sorry again the phone.. It does not help me gain any information of any kind so I am not bothered. Not even a tone read? The comment leaves no impression you whatsoever? | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:17 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Everybody has little scum inside them. Ah, then, let me ask this question, how scummy are you? | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:22 Bourneq wrote: I could not hear his tone over the internet. Okay, I think you could be taking me too literally. Let's try it this way. When I mention "tone read" does the fact that he's asking us this question, what does it make you think of him? That's what I am trying to ask. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:25 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I hope our cop or vigi is guud. I don't want to die :| We've barely started D1 and you're already thinking about dying? | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:25 prplhz wrote: because of his non committal stance on me I figured as much from your pov. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:23 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I dont want to tell you my dirty secrets Why do I get the sense you are tempting me to explore the depths of your foul mind? | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:29 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I dont know what you are thinking but are we thinking same? Well generally speaking my mind isn't in the gutter... I just figured yours was Typical men (And yes, rsoultin and I are two of the ladies here on TL.) | ||
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You had the vote and the explanation in two separate posts so that's why I said that. | ||
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On April 10 2015 07:24 prplhz wrote: alright so after reading some mafia on this forum and checking out the general guide, you decided it was a good idea to vote alphabetically? I'm interpreting the alphabetical vote as a joke vote - or NAI. I have seen it happen a few times in some of the newbie games. I know it has happened in Carol, and happened in Student IV. | ||
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On April 10 2015 08:12 Onegu wrote: My point was he made the post to clairfy before you made that post. He votes talks about something then clairifies why he voted ace. Then you asked him the question. I like this observation from Onegu, and his filter in general so far. His claiming VT is something he routinely does as town. Townlean (and partially based on meta). | ||
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On April 10 2015 09:27 Bourneq wrote: Why make a joke vote? Seems to me like its just going to drive the conversation in a confusing direction. Well here's my argument against that - alphabetical vote is just so far out there, and so absurd to use as a scum argument/behaviour that it would be unlikely that the intention would be confusion. Everyone can see through it. He's not being serious. | ||
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On April 10 2015 08:41 plotspot wrote: prplhz is 100% town. I can smell it.^^ I'm not sure I agree with this. I didn't like his entrance or his opening at all. I need to take a closer look at his filter. Scumreads so far on Bourneq and prplhz (pending filter recaps) and BD. Townleans on Soren, Onegu. | ||
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On April 10 2015 09:34 plotspot wrote: What does NAI mean? No Additional Information? or No Action Indicated? Why joke vote? It will stand as long as nothing else happens. It's not like Ace1312 feels totally threatened. At this time Bourneq will burn. Or even BloodyDwarf who a few people have on their list for certain acceptable reasons. NAI - non alignment indicative. As in his action is not indicative of alignment. As in he can do that reasonably as either alignment so it should not factor into the basis for a town or a scumread. People joke vote to draw reactions from people or to pass the time in the early phase of D1. If his vote is still on the guy with no added reason by EoD (end of day) then yes I would have a problem with that, and consider that scumlike behaviour. Time elapsed is a critical indicator in reads for many actions. | ||
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On April 10 2015 09:31 prplhz wrote: 1 the observation was incorrect 2 he just claimed town in mini mafia xxx and he was scum Townies can be incorrect. I pay attention to the tone and the timing. Onegu in his town games, for what I recall, claims VT or town early on in game. I know I played Hammertime with him and I don't recall a VT/town claim in that. Admittedly I did not pay as much attention to XXX. If I recall correctly though from the obs QT, I think that claim came on pretty late, or when he was in more trouble. | ||
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On April 10 2015 09:40 Bourneq wrote: Whats with the scumread on me? And prplhz is trying to lynch me so why do you think we are both scum? Before I AFKed, I didn't like your paralysis. I know you are extremely new to mafia (and I took this into account) so I tried to work with you on why you didn't think prp's comment drew no emotion. The "forum context" response I could not tell whether it was sarcasm or intentional evasion so I further questioned you and I get this: On April 10 2015 06:33 Bourneq wrote: It did not make me think anything. Now that you ask it seems he is at least trying to start a discussion. The problem I have with this is you are telling me what he is doing and not so much how it makes you feel as far his alignment is concerned. I realise maybe I'm hard to understand at times - not a native speaker here either - so I'm trying to spell things out as much as I can. Bussing has been a thing in D1 amongst scumteams lately. It's possible you both are scum. | ||
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On April 10 2015 09:47 Bourneq wrote: Its almost 3am over here. I am heading to bed but id love to get an answer from half the sky regarding the read on me. I will return in the morning. Just posted. | ||
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On April 10 2015 06:25 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I hope our cop or vigi is guud. I don't want to die :| On April 10 2015 07:55 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Dude, I answered to that later. No need to dig so old things I know some attention was already brought to the first quote, and I had questioned as to why he was so fearful of death so early in D1 and when he wasn't under any threat now. The "digging old things" and the fact he's said it three times - even with emoticons - gives me the impression he's trying to dissuade Soren from looking into him, even if he's trying to show it jokingly. The vote on prplhz without explanation also makes scumlike behaviour with a page of filter afterwards and Breshke calling that vote into question. | ||
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On April 10 2015 10:02 Onegu wrote: And why scum on prphz I really did not like his entrance or his first few posts. | ||
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On April 10 2015 19:45 Soren333 wrote: Is try hard a bad or good thing? What do you mean by not having an agenda? It is a good thing. To put what I've said in different words, you are calling out scumtells or potential scumtells in everyone without being selective about it (in this case regardless of vet/noob/etc) and just calling into question everything that seems off to you. | ||
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On April 10 2015 15:40 Breshke wrote: The lynchbait thing was because i felt a bunch of people were jumping on the wagon but i was actually wrong theres only 4 and one is sorren and one if me so it is still fairly pure. The other two are tube and ace and I am kinda town lean on tube but expect more from him. Ace's post where he votes didnt impress me much and thats another thing that attributed to me calling it lynchbait. The only thing I remember from Tube was a fear read on me and asking prplhz for help on my alignment based on a few games. I rated him null before I went to bed. What jumped to you as town? I feel he could be doing what I stated as either alignment. | ||
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On April 10 2015 21:00 plotspot wrote: Guys I'm at work, tonight when I have time I will try to detail out whats needed. Still concerning Onegu, before it crosses to real life, I said he was PLAYING LIKE a fucktard (for the couple of first posts that I saw at that moment), not that he is one. And he knows it. Judging by his tone he isn't offended. How is perceived poor play alignment indicative? IIRC you were scumreading or calling out scum behaviour based on him "playing like a fucktard?" Especially in a newbie game - yes I know Onegu is not a noob but the point still stands - how are you distinguishing between poor play and scum play? | ||
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On April 10 2015 22:59 Stutters695 wrote: So this game started apparently. What's up guys? Good afternoon! Are you caught up yet? If so do you have any reads or thoughts? | ||
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On April 10 2015 23:31 rsoultin wrote: did someone say he was? o_O i mustve missed it I know I didn't before I went to bed. The post that Onegu pointed out does make him look a little better. Ace I have a null read on. I want to see more from him before I make a conclusion. I read through his posts particularly some of the ones others didn't like. The post where he tried to give a scumhunting lesson, as Ras put it, read to me as logical from a newbie standpoint. Thing is I see him from either alignment ATM. It jumped out at me also because I made a similar point back in Student IV, my first game here. It seemed "too obvious" to the vets so of course they'd dismiss it. As for the lurker argument he's qualified his work schedule so let's see what he posts when he is around. That point on itself is NAI. We still have a little more than half of D1 left. | ||
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On April 10 2015 23:07 Onegu wrote: Don't buy his explanation for waffling either You don't think going through others' analysis and clarifying like he did with Ras and myself could possibly be town based perspective? He did explain out all his points why his alignment could swing either way. | ||
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On April 10 2015 23:50 Half the Sky wrote: You don't think going through others' analysis and clarifying like he did with Ras and myself could possibly be town based perspective? He did explain out all his points why his alignment could swing either way. EBWOP - That point was for Onegu regarding his scum reading Breshke. | ||
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On April 11 2015 02:40 rsoultin wrote: that didn't really answer what you were saying :/ Reading as I'm eating. I agree that also appeared TMI. Also Rasputin, I didn't articulate it well (and Onegu also called me on it but I'm pretty sure I answered him) but at the time I scumread prp his first few posts, especially his first post was just out there. It doesn't make sense as a reaction test even. His next few posts didn't seem like there was much effort to dig much into Borneq and anyone would question an alphabetical vote from Ace, I can see him as scum or town doing that. I am also ignoring meta on prp. I know I played Titanic with you both. but its also not hard to change a scum meta from jack all to some other approach. And that's the only game I've played with him. | ||
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On April 11 2015 02:59 rsoultin wrote: anyway, i'm out. have to finish up some schoolwork...i'll post a reads list tonight, but i'm actually hanging out with ls tomorrow lol so won't be here for EoD That's pretty awesome. Tell him I said hey! | ||
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On April 11 2015 03:02 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Sorry for noob question but what sheeping means? Sheeping, or following someone around, in this case, sleeping a vote means voting the same as someone else, or the majority. | ||
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On April 11 2015 02:36 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I wanted to be ...damn I had that word in my mouth but now I lost did.... mysterious!! Also, It feels really weird if somebody is replying to "old" chatty messages. At least it feels like that for me if somebody replys in whatsapp group to something "old". But this isn't whatsapp Right this isn't what's app but how is being weird alignment indicative? Were you actually scum reading Soren? Or were you still getting a feel? What do you think about some of the others now? | ||
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Tubesock is echoing much of the same sentiment on people so far as I am. I still think much of the material on his last few posts could come from either alignment but his statement on prplhz shows he is exploring both worlds of prp which is town thinking for someone who hasn't played with him. I'd say slight town read for now. | ||
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On April 11 2015 03:13 rsoultin wrote: -snorts- i find it really odd, hts, that you're willing to TR onegu for meta he's already broken but are disregarding how bad prp plays as scum + Show Spoiler + i will! i already dragged him to a sandwich shop in a gas station which was apparently a novel experience for him lolol >< I've played a few games with Onegu now and hosted at least two now with him in it. As either alignment he's not a shining beacon of towniness, and I pretty much have to read him as he does things. I've had mixed results on tone reading him so I'm trying something different. prp I'm ignoring meta because only one game played with him where he's done nothing and the game I hosted him (only one) he was MLed D1 IIRC and he wasnt particularly memorable. I have not database dove him yet though. | ||
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On April 11 2015 03:21 Bourneq wrote: And who the hell is rasputin? The mad monk? rsoultin, just my nickname for her. | ||
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On April 11 2015 03:20 Bourneq wrote: HTS who is your top lynch at the moment? Right now Dwarf. We're past the nicties part of this game and I don't recall reads from him. Others have given them and we're thirty pages deep at this point. | ||
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He qualified his inactivity with his work schedule. I would policy lynch 1) in the absence of a scumread around say 36h in and 2) if I don't see any original content based on the things that have transpired when he does. | ||
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On April 11 2015 03:32 rsoultin wrote: so it's not a real townread it's just a you're not sure so don't lynch read? i can buy that i think Yes exactly. | ||
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On April 11 2015 07:43 plotspot wrote: Wait. I didn't call him scum. I think you are awfully suspicious for talking like you know I'm 100% town. That's my original quote I only said I considered switching my vote, because he made 2 strange mistakes, like wanting a voting thread or saying I didn't explain myself to prplhz when easy checking could have confirmed I did. It was very early in the game, but why am I explaining things, isn't the uncertainty what he is obvious in the quote? No but you implied it. The fact that you are considering changing a vote to me implies you have some potential to scumread on him even if you aren't explicitly saying it. The bad play versus scum play was a natural followup not because I'm sure you're town, but because I was interested in seeing how you'd go about sorting his alignment. That's a common sentiment and challenge in newbie games tbh. As for Onegu, the way I see it, he's been caught out doing things where he could be checking the OP but he doesn't. For example, in Guardians, which I hosted, he questioned Trfel on usage of the orb with certain number of people when it was clear in the OP (and others corrected him) that the orb was gone with 11 players or fewer. | ||
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On April 11 2015 07:43 plotspot wrote: about Dwarf I don't know, looks like a victim so far. Why do you think he's a victim? He dissauaded Soren from digging into him (I'm not terribly convinced of his answer atm) but more concerning, at this stage in the game, he hasn't given reads. I've asked for them. Even you've given them. | ||
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On April 11 2015 03:52 Stutters695 wrote: HtS: what do you think of Breshke? You found my original accusation suspect yet haven't touched on either since you've been back. Breshke seems alright so far. He's voted Dwarf in the beginning which is a town tell - I know that in his scum games he delays definite scumreads until closer to the end of the day like he did in NYE Party and Titanic, although he replaced out the latter game but it was close enough to EoD and IIRC he hadn't scumread anyone yet. You said his vote on dwarf had no reasoning, and he posted a reason two posts before he voted (check his filter). On April 10 2015 08:11 Breshke wrote: Also @Thebloodydwarf I asked about your vote because random voting is w/e but im under the understanding that it is done to apply pressure. Yet you voted someone who was around and posting and actively trying to produce content with people. This leads me to think that you simply voted to just fit in with other people doing it. Then you said he was back to null. I think he was just evaluating the motivation of those (or trying to) of those also voting for BD. On April 10 2015 15:40 Breshke wrote: I'm actually still voting for him so i havnt exactly flipped. The lynchbait thing was because i felt a bunch of people were jumping on the wagon but i was actually wrong theres only 4 and one is sorren and one if me so it is still fairly pure. The other two are tube and ace and I am kinda town lean on tube but expect more from him. Ace's post where he votes didnt impress me much and thats another thing that attributed to me calling it lynchbait. Unless I'm looking at the wrong quote I didn't see anything wrong and I didn't think he was null esp after agreeing with my dissausion point. Also I don't think his post to Soren was necessarily a defence of prplhz, and I didn't think it was unnecessary. I think there's a difference between pointing a seeming contradiction or incongruency in behaviour and saying that "no prp is town". You could switch prp's name with someone else and it wouldn't be a defence of that person. You can also see later in Breshke's filter that he questions a TR on prp. | ||
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On April 11 2015 08:40 prplhz wrote: are you saying that just because a lot of people think something then it's justified to think it? Uh no, not in the least. To be blunt, prp, I don't like your answer at all. My focus in this question are the reasons people are scumreading him, not the number of people scumreading him. | ||
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On April 10 2015 09:34 plotspot wrote: Why joke vote? It will stand as long as nothing else happens. It's not like Ace1312 feels totally threatened. At this time Bourneq will burn. Or even BloodyDwarf who a few people have on their list for certain acceptable reasons. It's a bit contradictory in logic. | ||
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Still icing myself (ran a half marathon this morning \o/), but I'm back home. Another 30-45 and I'll be catching up. | ||
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On April 11 2015 09:10 plotspot wrote: I think the word "acceptable" is the bad boy here right? I should have written "acceptable for them, in their kind of logic, to which I can agree to a certain degree, but not nailingly sure for me". I think Dwarf is a victim because, he has to justify himself and looks helpless, but that's also because he hasn't post alot right? Oh geez, surely someone's caught this by now, but this is a horrible explanation. I mean I'd say he's a victim, but not because of other people, but because of himself, whereas, plot's prior statement had a context where he was the victim by others. Which doesn't make sense. | ||
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On April 11 2015 17:46 Tubesock wrote: So, I have this fascination with trying to read difficult/cryptic players. Players like Alakaslam, Sicklucker, Chezinu, and LightningStrike. It's dumb, but I absolutely love playing with those guys. I fall into big traps though, like finding deep meaning into statements and their word useage and once I think they are scummy I really get into confirmation bias. I'm really confused on TheBloodyDwarf. He hasn't done a single towny thing yet. He's blatantly ignoring requests for any type of read and isn't helping town at all. I mean it's so anti-town that mafia would at least try to fake something. He's not even doing that. He like doesn't care at all, he's trying to act as scummy as possible it seems. He made some posts which made me unvote him. At that time I was thinking he was basically softclaiming Vet. I didn't want to pursue anything and I think others were thinking the same thing. It would obviously defeat the purpose of him being vet. While at work i was thinking about him a lot. It just bugged me. A vet would play towny right? The entire point is to make MAFIA shoot you. But then you also have to avoid being lynched. And he's obviously not doing that. Then my tinfoil hat deflected an alien interrogation beam. TheBloodyDwarf is Godfather. BloodyDwarf comes from SC2 mafia arcade. So it's safe to say he plays SC2. He presumeably found TL mafia from the SC2 forums. He's not dumb, he's probably the more hardcore gamer type. TL Mafia does seem like the harder core version of many versions of mafia I think. So, he's fucking smart. He's not playing poorly at all. If he is Godfather, he KNOWS the setup. He knows if there is a cop/doc/vigi/vet. The OP says mafia knows. Reread his filter, doesn't it look like he's trying to make people think he's vet? "Don't shoot me" "I hope cop/vigi are guud". Yeah, he wants to make it look like he doesn't really know the setup but is telling the cop to check him so he returns town. He then knows who the cop is and mafia get to kill him. And he is basically confirmed town who gets to live at least another day. He softs vet knowing people probably won't push him since an outed vet is sooo bad for town. He then doesn't have to act towny. But in order to get cop checked he has to act really scummy so that the cop will check him over other question marks. I don't have a problem with you saying this, I'm used to your tinfoil theories But there's something I don't understand from a gameplay standpoint. (See bolded). Even if the cop, if we have a cop, checks him, how is he going to know who the cop is? How do you know the cop will out with a check esp this early in the game. I haven't played student game in awhile, checked the rules, and nothing is jumping out to me that indicates if he were scum, that he'd be getting any sort of added information this way. Am I misunderstanding you? | ||
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On April 12 2015 04:25 prplhz wrote: i don't understand first he says that tbd will get lynched because people want to lynch him then he says it's tbd's own fault i don't understand what the problem is also half marathon that's pretty impressive Okay, let me phrase it differently. Take a look at the quote in totality, it's extremely awkwardly worded. On April 11 2015 09:10 plotspot wrote: I think the word "acceptable" is the bad boy here right? I should have written "acceptable for them, in their kind of logic, to which I can agree to a certain degree, but not nailingly sure for me". I think Dwarf is a victim because, he has to justify himself and looks helpless, but that's also because he hasn't post alot right? 1 I point him out on the word "acceptable" 2 His quoted part of the sentence (which I've bolded) he is saying others are finding it acceptable but he's not so sure (not nailingly sure for me) 3 In his prior post, he said that Dwarf was a victim, but then by saying "he has to justify himself.....that's also because he hasn't posted a lot, right" he's already answered his own concern in #2 "not nailingly sure for me." On April 11 2015 07:43 plotspot wrote: [...] about Dwarf I don't know, looks like a victim so far. Onegu? 70% town. I think the host screwed up. Everybody is town^^. Or he is lazy giving out the roles according to the order on the front page.^^ This should be easy. Man don't read anything from this, I just enjoy the game ok?^^ I mean I observe, this game it really helps to know the posting style or habit or a person. I really cringe at some conclusion about me, you are all paranoid.^^ Of course when I go back here at how he said these things originally and esp how his wording has "evolved" on Dwarf, and I feel like he's trying to get around this read/conclusion in a wishy washy way. It's quite scumlike behaviour to me. | ||
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On April 12 2015 04:37 prplhz wrote: okay i tentatively don't want to lynch plotspot anyway lol can we lynch soren or stutters? Wha......why? (Still reading slowly and analysing - page 37 atm....if there's a problem on a latter page, which one?) As of last night, Soren was a townread, I know Ras has said he's fallen off, but when I briefly skimmed, I think he's posted since. What's the problem with him? | ||
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On April 12 2015 04:45 prplhz wrote: it just seems to easy to go in here and quote every other post and say "wtf" big text wall on me saying nothing and then jumping on plotspot same with stutters, don't like the way he's going on plotspot. says he wants to make a post, then doesn't and just half arsedly bandwagons. Now I haven't read Soren's latest post, but one thing Palmar had taught me in another game was one townie quality would be knowing how to sheep a good case or when to do so, especially after townie behaviour from the person you're sheeping. I'll see if my thoughts still hold up. On the other hand, it is D1, and most people's reads aren't great on D1. Will get through Soren's latter posting and I'll see if I have a problem with it. | ||
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On April 11 2015 23:45 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Stutters695. Checking his filter and I mostly see questions. Looks like he doesn't really have own opinion but is asking others what do they think. One read from Dwarf, and this is pretty much it. Then again all I remember from Stutters IS questions. Hmmm. | ||
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On April 12 2015 04:55 Half the Sky wrote: One read from Dwarf, and this is pretty much it. Then again all I remember from Stutters IS questions. Hmmm. EBWOP - if he hasnt posted anything new that IS scumlike behaviour. | ||
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On April 12 2015 04:57 Bourneq wrote: It would not get him any additional information but it would waste a cop check. Right I get that, but I read that as if the cop would out right away or he indicated that so I wanted to make sure I wasn't going insane. I've played with Tube before and he's rolled off his tinfoil hat theories before and I'll admit I've had trouble understanding him in the past when he's explained hah. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:00 prplhz wrote: scratch that, it's in 1 hour. check the OP there's a countdown at the top. My vote should be on plotspot, though I'm running through other filters to see if there's a better lynch than him. | ||
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##vote plotspot | ||
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On April 12 2015 01:46 plotspot wrote: Lol I'm found out, why don't you all vote me? Then you don't have to discuss anymore why to vote anyone else. This might spare distrust within town.^^ Top readers here. Obviously I've made it look too easy. Too bad.^^ On April 12 2015 02:03 Stutters695 wrote: ##vote: plotspot Generally if you're claiming scum you post a baby seal, but this works too I guess. This post is for prplhz. You don't like Stutters for this jumping on plotspot. Do you think 1 he's naturally reacting to plot claiming scum 2 pretending to misinterpret his sarcasm (Anyone else can answer this question too if they want.) | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:02 Tubesock wrote: Uh. This is pretty late in the day. Has anyone done the decoder with Plot? What the what? You guys should probably jump off Plot. This is I don't even know what this is. And the rest of his recent stuff. My question to you Tube is if you don't understand what he's saying why don't you (attempt to) interpret it? Or respond to some of the things I said (and maybe others) on trying to interpret plotspot? You said you needed a "rosetta stone" device or something to understand him. How do you know he's not playing dumb? I see too much crap from his end. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:10 Tubesock wrote: Town will jump off. While the real vet/doc weigh to CC or not. Then town wants to lynch him but maybe his team will talk town into letting the cop check him that night and mafia sort him out. Just like -Celestial- in that game you and I were in where you were Godfather. Plus, I just read Guardians and am a bit in awe of Toadessterns play. Anyway, I was thinking that mafia could convince the cop to check him and hopefully get a CC out of it. The cop would reveal his check and then mafia would know both blues. Prp and Breshke pointed out how that's just insane. But I'm still thinking Dwarf is mafia and the better lynch. Especially with the weirdness of whatever Plotspots is doing. Alright, now I understand what you're saying. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:13 prplhz wrote: it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post". some people are all "he's martyring, lynch him!" but that's just bad play. dunno if it's how stutters play and i'm not going to check his database entry for any fervent anti-martyrism. I mean if someone claims scum, there's not a whole lot really to analyse there now, is there? I mean he could have tried to analyse him and then in the midst of analysis, plot could have just made his life easier. I mean why is that possibility out of the question? | ||
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On April 11 2015 15:44 rsoultin wrote: Lol i actually have her as townish now...im kinda brain dumping as i go and only discussing things that stick out to me...my only issue with hts presently is i still dont feel like she explained her prp read going from null to scum...not sure if thats a language barrier though Alright Ras, just saw this, I will get to this post-flip. Trying to sort out a few more things before EoD. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:23 Tubesock wrote: I didn't really try because I was trying to figure out why Dwarf is doing what Dwarf is doing. I don't think I'm a very good multitasker. Plus, a lot of you were talking about him. So, I also reading through it, seeing you're putting in effort to do it. I concentrate on Dwarf, while you guys concentrate on others. I can see how critically thinking you are and then get two reads out of it. One for you (and others) and one for who the case is on. I can't read you HTS. I thought you were so helpful to me in that game you were godfather. So, I know helpfullness isn't a town tell really. So now I'm on a different theory for town reads. It's basically how much effort you put in. A mafia will put in work enough to avoid the lynch or to get some towncred. Then can relax a bit. Mafia isn't going to put in effort to solve the game though. Long story, mostly I was thinking about Dwarf. But I also wasn't too worried about others since people were doing stuff. My current towns Breshke, Soren, Prp, Rso, Jar, and you if you were posting as a smurf or something. Well that's (bolded) is pretty obvious. Even if you don't have thoughts on plot yourself, did you have any feedback on my thoughts on plot? Also you've been fear reading me. I understand why. Last I recall before this post, you said I was towny, but you were afraid of me. But you can't read me? | ||
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He corrected himself. It was one hour (and now 30m) at that time. 30m left. | ||
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His posts aren't exactly driving discussion. Also I looked at the timestamps of when Stutters said he'll look into plotspot and when he voted him. 15 hours and change. So my previous possibility of "being in the middle of analysis" is off the table. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:37 prplhz wrote: okay lets kill stutters then ##Unvote ##Vote Stutters695 i'm going for a run wont be back until after deadline I could be down for shennaning on him but I'm still not feeling good about plotspot. I'll illustrate another case that irks me on plotspot. | ||
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*slaps herself* And prplhz, I hope you're a 3min/km runner so you can get back here before EoD | ||
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On April 11 2015 23:24 plotspot wrote: Oh yeah why not. First of all people who are town and want to lynch me are overanalyzing my style of writing too much, since they have little experience with it. UNLESS you're mafia then you're of course playing the confused town, you're PLAYING the GAME. Congrats. 2nd I don't have any reads, as I think anyone is potentially suspicious and not at the same time. It's not certain enough for me to make any calls at the moment. Oh yeah is this suspicious? 50% of the people would think yes, 50% no. Yeah I'm calling the percentages.^^ Instead ask what other people think about you. From this thread I know that Half the Sky and Soren think I'm town. Many other people are unsure as to my aligment and a few people lean towards me as scum, but none are 100% sure I am scum. He will probably tell you now that he changed his opinion, due to progressed "interaction". Half the Sky provided some reasoning as to why she doesn't necessarily know that I'm town. But I'm not convinced. Based on the following post she thinks I think Onegu might be scum, although the reason I make this spontaneous post is because he was a disruptive element to the game by not paying attention, it doesn't matter what alignment he was. Well we have 11 other users here. Would you all agree that this post is 100% indicative of me implying Onegu is scum? If not than it's a conclusion only reached by Half the Sky, no matter how well-phrased her explanations are that it comes from the post and not from some hidden knowledge. Anyway, if Half the Sky is town, you have to protect her to the very end, otherwise eliminate her now. I agree with Rasputin that this post is awful. I'll point out what bothers me: 1 First paragraph - again sounds like dissausion, and funny that it comes after some of us forming reads based on his wording. 2 HATE that first sentence in second paragraph. 2nd I don't have any reads, as I think anyone is potentially suspicious and not at the same time. Like that's an excuse to not make reads. Of course there's more than one way of scumhunting so I move to his next paragraph to see if what he says DOES make sense.... Instead ask what other people think about you. From this thread I know that Half the Sky and Soren think I'm town. Many other people are unsure as to my aligment and a few people lean towards me as scum, but none are 100% sure I am scum. Using the word "instead" makes me think he's using this as a way to scumhunt, but where are the conclusions? 3 His followup on Soren. He will probably tell you now that he changed his opinion, due to progressed "interaction". Half the Sky provided some reasoning as to why she doesn't necessarily know that I'm town. But I'm not convinced. Based on the following post she thinks I think Onegu might be scum, although the reason I make this spontaneous post is because he was a disruptive element to the game by not paying attention, it doesn't matter what alignment he was. I disagree with this on many fronts. Reads SHOULD change if there's new evidence. Don't like it? Dispute it. And Onegu was disruptive only to you - to me, I knew better, and others probably just ignored it. I know Rasputin said she was uncomforable with him but IIRC that was on different evidence. I'm just smelling mafia agenda from this. And I don't know how it isn't. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:46 Onegu wrote: So we have a scum claim and you dummies don't want to lynch the shit out of him!? Please tell me what I am missing? Or is it just that you guys are being bad. prplhz for whatever reason isn't convinced. He had concerns on Stutters (which I sorta agree with, also along with Dwarf who said all he was doing was asking questions) and Soren (whom I still have to look into). Stutters seemed like a reasonable lynch, one page filter which hasn't done much or driven things forward. Ace/Shining is a policy lynch. There are two votes on Stutters. There are 5 minutes left. Who else is around? | ||
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He also voted plotspot and prplhz thinks that plotspot is martyring. I don't like either of plotspot or Stutters to be honest. But I can only vote one. | ||
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He's a veteran, but probably not. ##unvote ##vote stutters695 | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:57 Breshke wrote: Idk like i remember stutters making a read in me then trying to get ppl who townread me to talk about it. Seemed townie i probs wont swap. I realise there's practically no time to evaluate him now, but once prplhz and Dwarf drew attention to it, once I looked at the filter and the questions and the rest of what he had I'm just scratching my head. And that vote on plotspot, 15h afterwards, so he couldn't have been analysing him. If I'm wrong I'm going to slap myself. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:04 Onegu wrote: Thoughts we had do another hour hrmm We corrected you twice on that now. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:04 Breshke wrote: Sorry HTS my alarm didnt go off so i was still im bed on ohone so it was hard to consider stuff. I keep forgetting it's 6am there or 7 or something. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:07 Onegu wrote: I may or may not be on strong painless currently. Rsoul scum bang bang You think she afked the vote when vote sentiment was solidly on plotspot? She was active in thread whilst I was fast asleep or on the way to my race so I have to look into her and what she was doing/saying at that time. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:11 Tubesock wrote: Plot did claim scum. And literally had 2 posts that were town. Meh. Well I struggled with that until I saw the gap in time that Stutters said he'd analyse plot and then he just voted him 15h later. And that plus the rest of his filter plus him unlikely to be bussing D1 made it more likely that something was off. His vote onto plotspot came when vote sentiment was well on plotspot right? On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote: Final vote count: TheBloodyDwarf (1): Breshke (0): The Shining (1): plotspot Bourneq (0): plotspot (7): prplhz (0): Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky There were 5 votes on plotspot (not sure about Onegu, I know prp had switched only just now), at least 5 votes, so it's safe to say that sentiment was that way. A safe vote to hide within the masses as a scummer. Not many people around at EoD tonight either. That worries me a bit. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:29 prplhz wrote: one of my friends ran a marathon and i was like "how did you train for that?" and he said "well i ran 18km two days before just to make sure i could do it" and i was like "and up to that?" "nothing really but once you decide to run a marathon you don't just stop" people baffles me Eh that's not even close to how one should be training, if that's how he did it, well that jump from 18 to 42km is quite dangerous on the body. It takes 8-12 weeks depending on experience to train for a half, and 12-18 for a full again depending on experience. I also block extra weeks in there in the event of injury or life going insane on me. Back on topic though... | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:48 Soren333 wrote: lol he was town That's quite the reaction there. Any thoughts on EoD? | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:38 prplhz wrote: rso already said before the game that she wasn't going to be available all of d1 because she was going to a gas station with LS or something. Bah you're right. I stand corrected. | ||
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Reading the last few comments there are a few things that need clarified. 1 Vote change happened very close to EoD with not much time to deliberate. I think I voted with 2 minutes left. Not much time to convey "enthusiasm" aside from what went into my vote. I weighed heavily whether I should switch. 2 Back of my mind, there were too many people on plotspot. That had me antsy. The fact that there weren't many people around, before I realised it was a Saturday night, made me wonder if people had afked the vote. I know the pile on happened when I was asleep. 3 This point is for Rasputin. The 15h point that I made against Stutters was not because it was 15h between posts that he voted. The 15 hours point was used to justify that Stutters was unlikely to have been deliberating his vote on plotspot and that the vote came out of the blue. prplhz said that his vote came out of the blue and scumread him for that IIRC. I questioned that asking why he was eliminating the possibility that a scumclaim could have made his life easier in the middle of deliberation. Only when I further looked closely at Stutters' filter, did I notice the 15 hour gap. He said he'd look into plot. Then gap. Then boom. "Scumclaim, voted" (paraphrasing) Are you following my logic? | ||
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On April 12 2015 04:45 prplhz wrote: it just seems to easy to go in here and quote every other post and say "wtf" big text wall on me saying nothing and then jumping on plotspot same with stutters, don't like the way he's going on plotspot. says he wants to make a post, then doesn't and just half arsedly bandwagons. but i don't really know if i can lynch plotspot. he is around and he is sort of defending himself in his own way but again it's a super bad way. it's like he's super mad at town for getting lynched (keeps saying he hopes scum wins) even when given outs (me and rso both said he should defend himself and that it's not over yet). this dumb stubborness just seems more likely to come from town than scum. i also don't think my original points hold up about how he wanted the threads approval for changing his vote and then when i push him to change to bourneq he refuses. whatever he's thinking he's certainly not thinking "i need to change this dumb alphabetical vote". now he also just said "i just noticed in my filter that it's impossible to see what i'm talking about when i don't quote people", looks like he's going over his own filter and sees townie things but he's just resigned and doesn't want to explain them so he's just taking "i need to quote posts or nobody knows what i'm talking about" with him to next game. like it seems like he thinks he's town, he thinks he can show he is town, but he doesn't give a fuck. On April 12 2015 05:13 prplhz wrote: it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post". some people are all "he's martyring, lynch him!" but that's just bad play. dunno if it's how stutters play and i'm not going to check his database entry for any fervent anti-martyrism. Also besides the votes was the realisation that after I looked through Stutters and agreed that I didn't like what I saw from him for D1, I was scumreading BOTH Stutters and plotspot, and that Stutters had voted plotspot. That's when the question of him bussing plotspot (which I know I mentioned somewhere) and the likeliness of both of them being scum popped up. Was it a snap decision? Yes. I can understand why the lack of reflection might be troubling, but it was in those last few minutes a lightbulb popped in my head. | ||
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On April 13 2015 10:05 prplhz wrote: well i do see some lack of enthusiasm as well. i was hoping that you'd do something for the lynch after i went for a run but you just sat around and then voted 2 mins before deadline. breshke had shown up and said "no" at that point so plotspot was pretty dead, don't know why you waited for that before changing your vote. Not many people around. Bourneq already said he wasn't switching. Neither was Breshke. | ||
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On April 12 2015 05:52 Bourneq wrote: Plot still seems like the obvious lynch to me. Stutters is certinatly a suspect but I see no reason in keeping plot around. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote: Final vote count: TheBloodyDwarf (1): Breshke (0): The Shining (1): plotspot Bourneq (0): plotspot (7): prplhz (0): Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky I'm trying to consider all worlds here. Do note that I have not taken a good look at either of Shining or JJB's filters yet. Possible scum votes: 1 Ace/Shining - an isolated vote, general rule of thumb 2 Likely two votes on the plotspot wagon 3 Likely one vote on the Stutters wagon For #2 I'm thinking one or both votes had to have come late in the game when people thought plotspot was likely to be lynched. This reinforces the possibility of Stutters being a guilty party or Bourneq. I need to take a closer look at their timestamps and what they were saying/thinking at the time they voted. Also didn't see much reaction from Bourneq at all post-lynch. The only other person I will admit I have not taken a closer look at is JJB, largely because I haven't been able to interact with him all game. For #3 I'm thinking back to my Godfather game as to who in this group wants to look good counterwagoning if there was any such player. prplhz had the martyring argument, and Tube had his reasoning that he seemed to genuinely believe in. If I had to pick a scum in this wagon, I'd say Dwarf. When I see this: On April 13 2015 04:19 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Well, there is no way to prove this but since this post I decided to vote for Stutter Before this I was going to vote for Ace. Last time I checked thread was ~21:00 and went to play heroes I was checking clock after games but I still almost forgot to vote Why I didnt vote before 21:00? I wanted to see if anything new comes up. Particularly the timestamp he realised it, compared to prplhz, it makes him all the more likely to be the scum. Furthermore, whilst he might be newb, he could very be newb scum, which is what I'm starting to feel after looking through his filter. A lot of emphasis on how he's used to SC2 mafia play. At least that's the impression I'm getting. | ||
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On April 13 2015 10:15 prplhz wrote: meh i totally agree and that's why i poked it. why change 2 mins before deadline. it has no practical effect so it's something you do just to look different and townies don't care about that. On April 13 2015 10:20 prplhz wrote: anyway it's not that simple because townies change votes at last minute too. but this time it just had zero purpose, she agrees to that herself. Which means, based on your previous quote I should be town right? I put my thought process out there, and I didn't care about looking good. If I'd wanted to look good, I would have stayed on plotspot with all the rest of the votes on him, but I still kept considering all possibilities. Also for Rasputin, this isn't the first time I've deliberated things like this between two people and voted town. I know I was third party in JOAT, but this follows the same premise. Deliberated like crazy, looked through filters between the two vote candidates (Sandroba and SL in that case) and ultimately voted on town. Just saying. | ||
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On April 13 2015 10:10 rsoultin wrote: what's really bugging me, hts, is both of those posts from prp came before your long post on why you thought plot was town and you further go on to say that you think both look scummy with four minutes left? i find it hard to believe that those posts from prp convinced you >< then there's this post: which honestly is the only reason i'm not voting you right this second, given your explanation just now actually makes this post make more sense than how i was reading it, cause otherwise i don't know how you come to the conclusion that stutters is not bussing and then vote him the problem is, hts, your explanation is completely after-the-fact and not really supported by your posting except this very last one where do you stand on stutters now? First, that long post, I didn't conclude plotspot was town. I said I didn't understand how it wasn't a mafia agenda. I concluded he was mafia. After the fact, yes, but again, supports the fact I'm thinking hard about both candidates. The issue I had with plot concerned his wording which required more explanation. The arguments on Stutters were quite the opposite in some regards, lack of content, and points brought up by others. The questions coming to lack of a conclusion on certain players and Stutters's vote on plotspot, that last element which made me think twice about everything. If there was more time I'd have tried pushing the issue. I did try to push Breshke, so the point about me doing nothing (at prplhz) doesn't really hold either. On April 12 2015 05:56 Half the Sky wrote: Breshke - look at Stutters filter. I haven't switched yet. One page. Mostly asking questions. He's stopping short of conclusions. He also voted plotspot and prplhz thinks that plotspot is martyring. I don't like either of plotspot or Stutters to be honest. But I can only vote one. On April 12 2015 05:57 Breshke wrote: Idk like i remember stutters making a read in me then trying to get ppl who townread me to talk about it. Seemed townie i probs wont swap. | ||
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On April 13 2015 10:10 rsoultin wrote: what's really bugging me, hts, is both of those posts from prp came before your long post on why you thought plot was town Uh, I know I'm not going insane here, but that's what I was responding to >_< | ||
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On April 13 2015 10:52 rsoultin wrote: the point was that you made a post after prp's on why you thought he was scum, which is why it makes no sense for you to say that his posts convinced you on stutters and that second quote you clearly weren't picking sides yet either the post from breshke saying he wouldn't switch actually came before your vote on stutters, too like literally nothing in this defense disproves anything i said The post came after but that still doesn't discount that I went back to his post and reconsidered. That should have been quite clear actually when I said "oh shit, now I see what prplhz and dwarf said" The last part of that defence was aimed at prplhz who said this: On April 13 2015 10:05 prplhz wrote: well i do see some lack of enthusiasm as well. i was hoping that you'd do something for the lynch after i went for a run but you just sat around and then voted 2 mins before deadline. breshke had shown up and said "no" at that point so plotspot was pretty dead, don't know why you waited for that before changing your vote. | ||
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On April 13 2015 11:12 rsoultin wrote: like i'm gonna be frank with you here, hts...unless i'm just completely missing something, your behavior at EoD is basically indefensible. if stutters is town, you may very well have scum-slipped saying you voted an unflipped townie you need to either point out something i missed (not make up reasoning i can't verify) or convince me someone else is scummier than you, cause i don't think this argument is getting you anywhere Eh, I'm not really making anything up. If you are mafia deliberately choosing not to understand it, it wouldn't surprise me if you were but if you're town not getting what I'm trying to say, it wouldn't surprise me either. Not the first time this has happened. | ||
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On April 11 2015 19:17 Tubesock wrote: I've read Plot's filter, and I don't think he looks that great. My problem with him though is that there are at least three posts where I feel I need a rosetta stone. I have no idea what he's saying. The stuff I did understand, I don't remember having any eureka moment, or a sharing a brain type moment either. So far he hasn't been useful to me at all. That's not towny. I haven't invested any energy in him though. Sorry this isn't very helpful for you. On April 11 2015 19:35 Tubesock wrote: These reek of covering his ass as mafia. It's pretty waffly. I think it's different than how Breshke waffled on Dwarf though. I feel like Breshke didn't actually care what people though of his waffle. Yet, this is very much defensive. Then we get this. On April 12 2015 02:22 Tubesock wrote: Town, don't do any stupid shinanny shit. Vote Dwarf or vote Plotspot. He's not looking good either. Now wait a minute - here's the kicker - this comes RIGHT after prplhz calls attention to lynching Soren or Stutters On April 12 2015 05:13 Tubesock wrote: Stutters. Well, he has like 5 posts but they seem to have content and I read them and think he's at least thinking about the game. I think he's WAY more towny and useful than Dwarf or even Plotspot considering his weirdness. So this tells me that Tube is townreading Stutters. Then Tube says THIS about Plot. I then immediately question why he's not trying to interpret Plotspot when he brought the rosetta stone thing up and he said he wasn't a good multitasker. A cop out? On April 12 2015 05:23 Tubesock wrote: You guys should probably jump off Plot. This is I don't even know what this is. And the rest of his recent stuff. (Note: butched the quote bracket from Tube) I didn't really try because I was trying to figure out why Dwarf is doing what Dwarf is doing. I don't think I'm a very good multitasker. [...] Long story, mostly I was thinking about Dwarf. But I also wasn't too worried about others since people were doing stuff. My current towns Breshke, Soren, Prp, Rso, Jar, and you if you were posting as a smurf or something. And then BOOM. Vote on Stutters. Why didn't I see this before. On April 12 2015 05:37 Tubesock wrote: If this can save Plotspots for now I'll shenanny to Stutters695. ##Unvote ##Vote: Stutters695 There is no rationale - I'm not seeing it in his filter of any progression on Stutters other than "sheeping prp" and wanting to save plotspots. You think I look bad for my switch? Tube was townreading Stutters and then he voted him. In page 3 of his filter, he says he's sheeping prplhz. On April 12 2015 05:55 Tubesock wrote: Basically, Plots been doing some weird weird scumclaimy play. Just in the last 3 pages. Makes me queasy and Prplhz also. I'm basically sheeping Prp. I realise this is a wall post - But basically he's townreading Stutters and then he votes Stutters. I have no idea how Tube plays scum. But just taking a sharp look at his filter (pages 2-3) this looks pretty bad. | ||
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prp looked fine, On re-examination, Tube did not. That long wall post is me illustrating why Tube's switch to Stutters is problematic. | ||
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Tube townreads Stutters. At the very least I'm understanding from him Stutters is higher on the townie totem pole for him than Plot. Why doesn't he question his townread? I asked him to grasp plotspot but he used the rosetta stone/mutitasking argument and then sheeped prplhz onto a townread. prplhz had a decent thought process for the switch. But with Tube something isn't adding up. | ||
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On April 13 2015 16:41 Tubesock wrote: Continuing reading from that link, it can't be possible that she gave Stutters695 any deep real analysis. She did continue to case Postplot. She was still asking me stuff about Dwarf. I think it looks like she's contemplating him. She does make another big case post on Postplot that lands at 7 minutes prior to deadline. She's really thinking about Stutters AND building a fairly big post on Postplot??? Then she "pushes" Stutters in 3 posts all within 5 minutes of deadline. Can someone tell me how this makes sense as town? My problems is why would mafiaHTS basically start a wagon off town? But then she still pushed the original wagon? I'd like you to at least think how you would push someone with three minutes until EoD. If you can type up a sparkly case in 90 seconds, I applaud you. But to think I should have some detailed analysis (which you infer to be a good, or town-based push) in that timeframe is unreasonable. It is not hard to look at the case on Stutters and come to the conclusion I did. It does not require detailed analysis, at least based on your criteria. Also I did not start the wagon on Stutters, prplhz did. I read her cases and I think some of them are contrived. In the JoaT game she was ninja. I scummed and cased her HARD for her actions prior to the town lynch of Sicklucker. I kind of caught her? She was 3P (third party) and NotTown. I'm feeling the same thing here (nottown). She was caught up on why Dwarf said something 3 times like it makes him scummy but not the other half billion things he was doing that was scummy. She has mentioned how "not having new" ideas is scummy. I think in that bringing up past 3 times thing is her way of bringing "new" information. Trying to look towny. Her other stuff is just nitpicky. It's not the motivation behind her targets actions it's the inconsistencies of it. Well, town can be inconsistent. It happens. It's all about motivation. I'm pretty sure this is an opportunistic vote but I'm going to highlight for the others the flaws in this argument. 1 In games where a third party exists, third party roles can be either pro or anti-town. Regarding my role in JOAT, third party assassin has a town agenda aside from attempts at killing the other assassin (or ninjas as they were called in JOAT). If town lose before assassins find each other, they lose, end of. It is in their interest to stay and play pro-town especially in a game where scum had a shittonne of KP. (In large games, scum will generally have more than 1kp, unlike here). That said, in JOAT, I was third party but was operating on a town agenda for the basis of that particular vote. This is the example I tried to highlight earlier. In fact, Kitaman in particular noted how I was reading the thread, and taking into consideration how each of the candidates (SL and Sandroba) could be scum, and that's exactly what I did here. The difference is that in that game, is that I had a considerable amount of time to consider each of the candidates. In this game, I had an epiphany with minutes to spare and made a judgement that was reasonable 1) in the amount of time that I had and 2) with the material I had in front of me for Stutters. Which again, doesn't require the analysis that Tube seems to be setting as criteria. 2 The other billion things where he was scummy was shot down or explained away by others as either him being new or being NAI. Post-lynch he needed to be examined on how he voted plotspot (which I see Breshke is already doing). That said, I'm going to move on to finding the (likely) 1-2 scum on the plotspot wagon. At first glance, Bourneq and Stutters themselves will be a good place to start. I'm in meetings for a few hours here at work, but will field questions when I return. Also Rasputin, you asked me about Stutters, but Stutters actually looks worse after reading his filter. | ||
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I'm taking the approach of evaluating each of the main wagons D1 with the working theory there are 2 scum on the plot wagon and one on the Stutters counter wagon. I evaluated the Stutters counterwagon last night with Tube and possibly Dwarf being suspect. I have Rasputin/others wanting to lynch me for faulty logic (namely my changing votes on Stutters 2m before EoD) without considering the possibly that 1) I can't consider all possibility simultaneously and 2) it being completely unreasonable to expect a detailed case with the scant amount of time left. I've explained it enough, so I'm filter diving the people on the plot wagon atm. | ||
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Trfel, vote count analysis is pretty common in these games. You should recall Damdred doing this in Guardians. | ||
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On April 14 2015 00:07 rsoultin wrote: this is true hts, i already said i'm not stuck on you, but i do need you to convince me someone is more scummy than you, yeah? stutters said he'd be playing today so he has no excuse not to, but dwarf and bourne seem to have dropped off the face of the earth lol >< i'm not going to ignore you, hts. i've grown past the blindly tunnel phase as a player (i'd like to think, anyway xP) Fair enough. I'm stuck in meetings, will do once I'm out.... | ||
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On April 14 2015 00:17 rsoultin wrote: you're right, hts, but usually people do it combined with reads? it isn't pure oh vote looks scummy therefore scum like i caught -celestial- because he was vocal that he didn't like the main wagon but still wasted his vote instead of trying to save him (lol sound a little familiar here? ) and i cleared breshke in a later game cause even though his vote looked scummy, the lead-up to it looked genuineif you're town i get what you're trying to do, but it doesn't really work the way you're doing it, ya know? Pretty sure I've been analysing the context of the vote (arguments around it) aside from the placement of vote and timing? Particularly with Tube? Unless you meant my response to Trfel. I'm free for an hour so a bit more mobile on the laptop on this forum atm \o/ Anyhow, carrying on. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote: Final vote count: TheBloodyDwarf (1): Breshke (0): The Shining (1): plotspot Bourneq (0): plotspot (7): prplhz (0): Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky So looking at the plot wagon - off the cuff I would say that Onegu, Bourneq and Stutters would be the three most suspicious on this wagon. Not all three would be scum under the working theory of 2 on this wagon and one on the counterwagon, but it's most likely there's 2 in the 3 I listed. But this gives me a starting point. Timing and context of each vote - Starting with Onegu Onegu - Voted him twice. First was for the random alphabetical vote on Ace fairly early in the game. He unvoted (approx 10m) after that when prplhz showed him the timestamps. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=14#265 Votes Breshke halfway through for the lynchbait comment, also saying that he didn't buy his explanation for waffling. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=23#444 (Breshke's justification is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=23#447) The issue here is not only he doesn't push Breshke if he believes in this lynch but when Rasputin and I both call him on it respectively: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=30#582 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=27#531 His responses are pretty darn evasive. Also of note - all this while, there is zero mention of plotspot whilst he's focusing on Breshke. Now he AFKs for a bit and then comes back as we're deliberating over Stutters. Another thing for Onegu (or now his slot) that doesn't add up is that he's looking at Rasputin as potential scum. This was way before, but then he votes with her and then concludes post deadline that she is scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=22#432 Another thing that doesn't make sense (disclaimer: metaread) is that Onegu is VERY familiar with martyring as he's done it himself AND he's made a similar counterargument for someone martyring and he didn't seem to consider that in his decision. Supporting links here: - from a game I played with Onegu, Hammertime Mafia 1 Onegu actually martyring himself as town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=40#788 2 Onegu making an argument that someone is martyring: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=39#768 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=39#775 If he's somewhat skeptical, it doesn't make sense he's look at a scumclaim AND then vote with a potental scumread WITHOUT considering it could be a martyr. Note that his vote is thrown on at the end when a number of us are piled onto plotspot. I bring up the counterarguments to Stutters over plotspot as the better lynch: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=46#908 For which there is no reaction from Onegu. So here are the following things that don't make sense for Onegu: 1 Breshke being the best lynch - doesn't push him, is challenged on "waffling" by 2 players and is evasive with subsequent answers. 2 Drops plotspot once, and then votes him in a context that makes no sense for his experience. He is familiar with scumclaims and doesn't consider it himself. 3 Votes with (same wagon) as a potential scumread - Rasputin - whom he then concludes after deadline is quite scummy. Comments/questions would be appreciated. I realise Onegu is out of the game. But his slot needs to be challenged as scmmy. Client dinner pretty soon. I will get to continue with Bourneq and Dwarf afterwards. | ||
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On April 14 2015 05:25 Trfel wrote: I disagree with your assessment that page 14 was basically a decade ago. And I disagree with your scumread of prplhz. When I read his play, even from page 16, he is one of the two most influential players in the game (along with Soren333). He's constantly pushing things, not just asking questions. You claim he isn't doing anything, I disagree. Trfel, I think you might need to read Stutters' post again (bolded). On April 14 2015 02:30 Stutters695 wrote: Still a bunch of one-liners, but if you look at a town Prpl game when he's trying to lead a lynch, he provides reasoning, even if its lumped in between 10 one-liners. Scum Prpl tries to avoid being accountable by providing loose reads which barely justify his vote enough to not be lynched himself. [...] He again shifts his suspicion off of his lynch target for no apparent reason. He's basically done nothing consistently, hiding it behind empty accusations and frequent posting. I realise Stutters has said "done nothing consistently" but the crux of his argument as I understand his case is that the quality of prplhz's reads are poor or unsupported/misleading, etc as scum. Stutters, it might help those of us not familiar with prplhz's town play to illustrate the progression in reads when he's town versus what he's just illustrated to be scum and you're calling his reads loose reads. I say this because two of us (namely Rasputin and myself) are used to a scum prplhz who did absolutely nothing (Titanic 7) and afked much of the game. The only question I have for Trfel is how he knows or concludes that prplhz isn't misleading, since the difference in reads according to Stutters indicates intentional misleading. And a player can be influential and push things (or mislynches in this case) as mafia. | ||
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On April 14 2015 05:59 Trfel wrote: Uh, what gives you this idea? I mean, I'm sure it's technically possible, but it's also possible for a 50+ page filter Artanis to be mafia (Guardians). It's just extremely unlikely. There are only a small number of mafia players on this site who will actively lead the thread as mafia, and given what I've heard about prplhz's scum play (which seems to be in complete agreement with what you are saying), I feel that prplhz would almost never push the thread this much as scum. Here's what I was getting at. I didn't recall whether you have ever played with prplhz and were coming up with that conclusion yourself or whether you were just going off of what others said. Especially as Stutters paints a slightly different perspective of his scumgame than what I'm recalling. | ||
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On April 14 2015 02:19 rsoultin wrote: :/ that case against oneg looks pretty good hts lol >< mrt, i need to get some food myself and read through everything again, clearly Did you have any initial thoughts by the way if you've re-read? Especially as I recall you were uncomfortable with Onegu early on and he provided some reasons for scumming you post lynch D1 that you took issue with IIRC. | ||
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On April 14 2015 06:16 Trfel wrote: I'm mostly going off of what others (particularly rsoultin) have said (before this game began). I have experience playing with town prplhz, and in this game, he's been noticeably better than I remember him being in games where he was town. Because of this, I don't feel that I need to check his scum meta, it's clear enough already.Here's what I was getting at. I didn't recall whether you have ever played with prplhz and were coming up with that conclusion yourself or whether you were just going off of what others said. Especially as Stutters paints a slightly different perspective of his scumgame than what I'm recalling. If there is actual reason to be suspicious of him (possibly the points that Stutters695 made about prplhz's end of day actions, which I'm not in a position to evaluate at this time), I can revisit him later.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. | ||
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On April 14 2015 06:16 Trfel wrote: I'm mostly going off of what others (particularly rsoultin) have said (before this game began). I have experience playing with town prplhz, and in this game, he's been noticeably better than I remember him being in games where he was town. Because of this, I don't feel that I need to check his scum meta, it's clear enough already. If there is actual reason to be suspicious of him (possibly the points that Stutters695 made about prplhz's end of day actions, which I'm not in a position to evaluate at this time), I can revisit him later. Fair enough. | ||
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On April 14 2015 07:53 rsoultin wrote: meh rereading onegu i think half of why i dropped him is cause he was in the hospital lol >< there were several things bugging me about his play, and while i still think it's hugely risky for him to push that mislynch so vocally as scum, it's not like it's impossible i'm very susceptible to townreading people i like >< (that's not to say i don't like you if i scumread you xP lol) When you say push that ML, you mean the plotspot mislynch? I think he made the one comment and that was it. Or do you mean Breshke being risky? Well Onegu had voted after (and you can see on page 46 of the thread) Breshke and Bourneq weren't switching and only 3 were on the Stutters wagon (I switched right after he voted), so his vote was also inconsequential. His scumclaim comment initially came with 2 people on the wagon. He would have been a solo vote on Breshke had he not switched and taking the scumclaim/martyr thing into consideration as well as the fact he wasn't considering plotspot before that scumclaim makes it more likely he did what he did to get on a wagon so he wouldn't look as poor. | ||
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On April 12 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote: Final vote count: TheBloodyDwarf (1): Breshke (0): The Shining (1): plotspot Bourneq (0): plotspot (7): prplhz (0): Stutters695 (4): prplhz, Tubesock, TheBloodyDwarf, Half the Sky Overview From the looks of voting, Bourneq had voted once all of D1 on plotspot as other players piled up on him. On page 40 of the thread, he wants to vote Ace before voting plotspot, after Rasputin asked him why he wasn't voting Dwarf. To put his actions into the proper context, I asked him very early game his experience in mafia and he'd responded (paraphrasing) that whilst he had watched some video mafia, this was his first ever time playing it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=8#147 Read Progression After making some initial comments on Ace, Onegu and plotspot, he starts off by discussing Dwarf as scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=322&topic_id=480171 He supports his points (when asked) why Dwarf is scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=18#342 My initial read on Bourneq was scum but Bourneq replies with a plausible explanation for why he's newb town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=18#344 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=18#349 The only problem here is that newb scum could still fake that explanation and after prompting him to think about people's alignment in my initial scumread, let's see if he takes that to heart. His first mass list post has the following as scum reads: JJB as possibly mafia Ace possibly mafia or a quiet town not contributing prp as looking "more and more" scum to him plotspot "screaming" scum to him http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=28#541 When challenged on this, he furthers his points on plotspot as mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=28#559 First potential sign of trouble - policy lynch over scum lynch He suggests that if he had to vote "right now" it'd be Ace for inactivity. This was after he hard scummed plotspot. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=31#614 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=32#625 THIRTEEN MINUTES LATER (per timestamp) prp asks him "who is most likely to be scum" - he replies Bloody Dwarf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=32#627 prp calls attention this (page 33) whilst he's AFK, and Rasputin pinged him prior. About fifteen hours later - he re-cases plotspot and ultimately votes him. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=39#767 That said, it's apparent that he has jumped from scumread to scumread. Let's see what happened in those 15 hours when Bourneq was afk. Aside from him getting pinged. 1 Breshke votes plotspot (page 34). 2 2h later Shining replaces Ace - may lend some credence to not voting Ace's slot. 3 rsoultin and prplhz both vote plotspot (page 35) 4 Tube votes TBD. (page 37) But later comtemplates a switch to plotspot. So overall we have a general shift towards plotspot, and to re-emphasize his explanation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=40#789 On April 11 2015 23:30 Bourneq wrote: My reasoning at the time that if Ace is not a mafia scared of posting or just flat out staying out of the game as a tactic, then he is at least to most useless town. Since he is not posting and thus not contributing anything then even if he was town it would not be a massive loss for us since he is not helping anyway. That being said I would wrather lynch somebody we can say is the most likely mafia and I will not be voting ace today. In fact, ##Vote Plotspot There are a few issues with this post. On one hand he discusses Ace for being useless, 15 hours later, and well after Ace replaced out. This would imply that he's out of touch with the thread right? Problem is, if he's out of touch with the thread, he should be voting his most likely scumread, and that's The Bloody Dwarf before he AFKed... Although he's cased plotspot before, he responded with TBD as the most scummy. What makes this even worse is that when Stutters queried him on having too many scumreads, he gives a noncomittal if not evasive answer to Stutters on the two people he'd lynch. I'd checked the context and it makes me think that he's trying to keep his options open here and vote where the thread is swinging. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=32#622 On April 11 2015 05:12 Bourneq wrote: I only count 2 people I put as scum. I said I was leaning towards this or that on some people but I did not list them as scum. Bourneq proceeds to hang around at EoD. When we talk about Stutters, he does not switch. No posting since post-lynch. Summary: 1 Open-ended (quoted) answer to Stutters on scum reads. I interpret this as keeping options open. 2 Was queried multiple times on the read switches from plotspot to TBD to Ace (who would be policy) to plotspot. Gives an answer to prplhz saying that TBD was most likely scum. 3 Vote on plotspot occurred after thread sentiment swung plotspot's way I feel these are all scum traits/behaviour, not considering the inactivity. I also feel something is not adding up in the jump from TBD as "most likely scumread" to plotspot as "most likely scumread" and taking the context of progression, it looks too much like #1 to me. | ||
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On April 14 2015 08:37 Stutters695 wrote: [...] In Titanic it's more of the same. He "has a hard time" establishing actual scum reads, while in his town games he's much more sure of himself. Phone posting so I can pull up specifics later, but if you read just his filter in those games you'll see what I mean. Fair enough. I'm up a little later tonight again, so I can look into this. Thanks for the detailed explanations. | ||
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1 He didn't name his two scumreads when prompted by Stutters 2 What made plotspot the most likely scum when 15 hours before TBD was the most likely scum and he was AFK that time. 3 Why push a policy lynch over any of his scum lynches. 1 and 2 being the more of the important questions IMO. | ||
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On April 14 2015 07:43 jarjarbinks wrote: got in and read up lol hey Trf.....sooooo....its been awhile...lol first readthrough of hts's case was pretty good. really looking forward to the other two. also i'm pretty sure Trf's first case is longer than at least two people's filters in this game lol Case on Bourneq is on previous page. Would appreciate your feedback. | ||
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On April 14 2015 09:24 rsoultin wrote: lol i don't disagree with you? it's the main thing that's been keeping me from voting him up to this point, just because...such a god-awful obviously bad way to play scum >< like i'd feel like the biggest imbecile on the planet if at end of game he ends up being scum just cause he's like the poster child for scummy play this game lol i'm just confused how you have a townread on him My first tinfoil hat theory this game: What if this game is like Down Under 2 where the mafia team is relatively inactive? Pass the tinfoil anyone? | ||
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On April 14 2015 09:31 rsoultin wrote: that said...the almost sleepy nature of the thread lends credence to that theory? i wouldn't call it tinfoil Yeh, PoE is generally something I give more weight to in latter stages of the game, and we're still in D2 atm. But given that it's happened, it does weigh in the back of my mind, but I feel we'd need help in part from the blues to help connect the dots on that one before definitely pushing that direction in lategame (D4 or beyond). Similar to how Slam came out with his DT checks in Titanic D5 (I think). | ||
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Rasputin - what are your arguments in favour of Bourneq being town? Or if you said it before, can you quote it please? | ||
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D1, you expressed that Breshke was mafia. You considered prplhz and plotspot for lynch. You pushed Breshke in two posts, and I know you were AFK a bit from the thread D1, but ultimately voted plotspot after a load of people had done so. I have two questions for you. 1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was scumclaiming and not martyring? I understand some vets are familiar with martyring happening and prp has brought it up himself. 2 I know someone else queried you on it but I'm not seeing the response in your filter - had your thoughts on Breshke changed since D1? And if you were sure of Breshke, why didn't you push him further D1? | ||
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Last post was directed at Stutters. | ||
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I associate scumclaiming with knowing that scum is positively claiming scum versus town claiming scum (or giving up), which I saw as martyring, and doing it as town. So if my definition/understanding is off, I'll rephrase the question as follows: 1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was positively claiming scum as opposed to a townie giving up? Ultimately that is what I was trying to get at. | ||
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On April 14 2015 10:12 rsoultin wrote: now the biggest thing against bourne apart from the tbd/plotspot thing which i find confusing more than anything is how long he's been afk, imo so again, if i'm missing something, will someone please enlighten me? Last thing he mentioned was "shit" post-lynch and I don't recall any RL excuses in the filter. | ||
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On April 14 2015 10:33 rsoultin wrote: i fail to see how this post is relevant xP the question was intention, not end result -flicks- trfel made a post as scum that "got discussion going" but that didn't make him town lol >< I think Soren made a similar argument earlier about useful and useless discussion actually and saying that driving the latter was scumlike behaviour. | ||
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On April 14 2015 10:38 Trfel wrote: I also find it ironic, since Soren333 himself was one of the main people to respond to prplhz's opening, and he apparently called it useless discussion? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=15#284 Not making this up. Anyhow, back on topic. | ||
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However, and this is a big however, the third quote you cite, if anything makes him town, that would have to be it. It's original thought and content from him. | ||
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On April 14 2015 10:26 Stutters695 wrote: 1. I wasn't. D1 is a bitch and I hate it. Once it was obvious Bresh/Prpl weren't options, I wanted to see one of the newbies hang because if one of them didn't, we'd be in the same predicament d2 and had basically wasted d1. I've played enough games where people martyr/give up as scum once caught early that I really don't know what to think anymore. 2. I've learned pushing lynches that won't happen just distracts town. Especially on d1 when we can afford a mislynch. I'd rather have a mislynch on someone I can't read, but I think is scum than someone I don't think is scum because I split a wagon, when d1 is a crapshoot anyway. They have changed due to his n1 posts, but I still want to see more out of him to decide. Considering you are the lead proponent of his lynch and (I could be wrong here?) you have yet to play with him, so... | ||
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Last night I did a VCA (vote count analysis) starting with the people I felt looked most suspicious. You were one of the most likely though I still need to look into the "less" suspicious individuals, but looking through you, my biggest beef with you was not your activity, but that you appeared to jump reads. The 15 hour gap between you wanting dwarf and Ace (now Shining) gone and then thread sentiment swung plotspot's way made me assess whether you were going along with the crowd when you'd been able to keep your options open by casing him earlier. I can see where you cased plotspot before and after ranking your scumreads, but Rasputin did point out ONE redeeming quote where you seemed to have original content and thought on prplhz. If you can answer the questions that I (and I know a few others posed for you) I think it would help greatly. Also if you can clarify where you stand on prplhz given his activity/etc D2, that would also help greatly. | ||
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He did clarify his meta points on prplhz (which I'll admit I did not get to last night before I had to go to bed). His explanations for pulling off Breshke/prplhz make sense and voting plotspot makes sense when he cannot distinguish between scum claiming scum and townies giving up. He said he's seen it "so many times" and I checked the database - he does have an extensive amount of experience. Finally what appears to be his most redeeming quality is his conviction on prplhz. | ||
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I don't think Stutters should be considered scum after what I asked last night. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=64#1274 On April 14 2015 09:19 Half the Sky wrote: Following what I just posted on Bourneq I need to know why 1 He didn't name his two scumreads when prompted by Stutters 2 What made plotspot the most likely scum when 15 hours before TBD was the most likely scum and he was AFK that time. 3 Why push a policy lynch over any of his scum lynches. 1 and 2 being the more of the important questions IMO. Those are the questions I was referring to. I'm out the next two hours for meetings, but will be back. | ||
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My issue personally with Trfel's post is that D2 is a bit too premature to conclude the entire scumteam is inactive. Now I don't think he's PoEed everyone else yet, from what I recall, I believe it's a result of whoever he's rated the lowest in his latest page of analysis. It is possible and it has certainly happened, but given the nature of scumteams on TL on average, it is unlikely. It IS likely there's one lurker, possibly two on a three-person scumteam, but all three being inactive would be extremely rare. I also know that from talking with Kitaman when we have cohosted the last newbie game, inactivity amongst newbies is fairly common regardless of alignment, so (not sure if you were in thread) exercise extreme caution before voting someone down solely for inactivity, especially a newbie in a newbie game. Like I said before, I feel that blue(s) should be the ones investigating that throughout the game and resolving only lategame (D4 or later IMO). | ||
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On April 14 2015 21:48 Bourneq wrote: So to answer "2 Was queried multiple times on the read switches from plotspot to TBD to Ace (who would be policy) to plotspot. Gives an answer to prplhz saying that TBD was most likely scum. " I am not sure what you meant by "read switches". Early on in the day I was getting bad vibes from tbd who was acting pretty suspicious to me. But it was early on in the day so I was going to give him time to redeem himself. He did not do much of anything for the rest of the day while plotspot was making a very bad case for himself and I thought that my reads on him were stronger than thoose I had on tbd. Somewhere in the middle of d1 I am asked who I would vote on if I had to vote that very second. I answered Ace because I did not feel enough information had surfaced on anybody so a policy lynch would be in good order. Bourneq to clarify this - | ||
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On April 15 2015 00:04 rsoultin wrote: htssssss lol >< very preachy and sweet but if you haven't noticed we've got 3-4 lurkers, so unless you have someone scummy you'd rather "vote down"? also he directly said it wasn't for inactivity so...sermon unnecessary The plan on my end was looking into the concerns on prplhz and sorting out Bourneq's reasoning for doing what he did. ATM I'm filter diving prplhz. | ||
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On April 15 2015 00:26 rsoultin wrote: lolol >< tempted to jump up and down, put on a clown nose and stand on my head if it'll get you to engage with me hts xP and that would look hella strange cause i can't stand on my head :/ you've cased...tube, onegu(trfel), bourne and the 1 of 3 is making me go ;o; about not seeing a third lol who i'm assuming is stutters. i kinda agree with (my bro i think it was?) that some of those cases look stretched, but that's neither here nor there at the moment. who do you actually want to lynch? If I had to lynch now it'd be Onegu/Trfel. Bourneq I didn't like. Your last quote on him as I said last night gave me pause that he could be newb town over newb scum, so I followed up. Read up on Tube and went back to his original read on me. I know from Newbie LX he is susceptible to tunnelling. A town Tube could be just doing that to me. My lynch pool is between Onegu/Trfel, and Bourneq, though the latest things on prp make me want to doublecheck honestly. The quote from Trfel when I re-read from last night also made my eyes pop (and not in a good way) because I didn't get that prplhz was forceful at all in his reads. Stutters I think its fine. | ||
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On April 14 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote: I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing. He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia. I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself. I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads. When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people. The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me. | ||
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On April 15 2015 01:24 Trfel wrote: Half the Sky, I'm interested to see what you have to say about the argument above. In about an hour and a half, I need to head out, and then I won't be back until 30 minutes to the deadline (plus or minus another 15 minutes.....). So if you want to lynch me or prplhz, I would like to talk about that now. If you ignore me now, while I am present, and then start trying to kill me only once I'm gone, I won't be very pleased (and I would like to think that you would be under quite a bit of suspicion after). If you are concerned about my scumreads not having a balance of lurkers and non-lurkers, I'm sorry. I could falsify my scumreads to make them "perfect" in every way, but that isn't good for town at all. I realize that I most likely missed at least one mafia. I'm just saying that at this point in the day, I'm not going to have the time to try and catch them today, and so I'll go with the people I initially judge as scummy and make the best lynch from them. I am highly confident that at least one member of my lynch pool is mafia. I'm back. Still at the damn office trying to get stuff done :/ Reading through your stuff quick though. | ||
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Regarding your previous post Trfel, you provided a lynch pool. I couched that wrong (concluded scumteam) I stand corrected. The point I was driving at there was that you had a pool of scummy lurkers. However, the analysis just now though makes my decision harder though. I know in past games you (Trfel) have provided these sequential page by page reads. I am following where you're putting the "scum" in the scummy lurkers. But I'm still having issues with prplhz. My next post is the one voting situation I did not consider. | ||
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On April 15 2015 01:15 Trfel wrote: At this point, I would be suspicious of prplhz. Asking one person to switch and then not doing anything when they don't switch isn't very impressive (still something town does all the time, but isn't a very good play). But then Tubesock comes back, and says that he doesn't want to lynch plotspot. Prplhz immediately jumps and asks him who he wants to lynch.Prplhz seems to be more interested in not lynching plotspot than lynching a specific player, and that's fine. Still, despite asking who Tubesock wanted to lynch (Tubesock initially said TheBloodyDwarf), prplhz still argues for a Stutters695 lynch. Then Tubesock shows desire to talk about plotspot and Stutters695, as well as a lack of confidence in lynching plotspot, so it can be assumed that he is willing to lynch Stutters695. And Half the Sky rereads Stutters695's filter, and said that she understands why he is scummy (implying willingness to lynch him). Prplhz immediately switches his vote, the first one to do so. If I recall right, you're townreading Tube. Now focus on the bolded. Tube had discussed a theory where if a scum prp knew that Stutters was town and Stutters has the potential to be town given his conviction on prp, what is the likelihood of a scum prp wanting to counterwagon on Stutters to set up a possible mislynch? Now I'll admit I'm a little biased here because following this he tried to pin blame on me for switching off plotspot, but it was he who led that charge. If you think Stutters' case is valid (or at least the presentation is a town trait) do you think there's credence to the possibility that prp is doing what Tube thinks he's trying to do by counterwagoning? Does the bolded look at all opportunistic? That's what I'm driving at. If you think I've missed something, quote it. | ||
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On April 14 2015 12:45 Tubesock wrote: Well, I can still lynch Dwarf. I'm thinking about Prplhz. I don't understand why he's so hard defending him. Well, I mean I see his reasons. But why were Plot and Bourneq any different? Or Stutters prior to his Prp case? My tinfoil is saying that he set up the shenany to set up a mlynch the next day. It's pretty easy to see that EoD weirdness will get a lot of talk. We've done nothing but scum random people all for the same reasons. Directed at Trfel - this is the quote to support what he was working through. | ||
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On April 15 2015 01:11 rsoultin wrote: actually lol rereading his filter i don't. looks more like someone trying to push his lynch than someone withholding reads. the pressure on prp looks pretty solid to me :/ meh i hate policy lynches on principle too, hts lol >< gonna filter prp and tube again i guess :/ tube mostly cause i kinda ignored him after his tinfoil From what I can tell looking at Tube's argument on prplhz is that he's queasy on 1) he can do the same things as town as he can do scum 2) something about his defending Dwarf compared to Bourneq and Tube hinting at a double standard. Like I was scumreading Bourneq here too but to me, activity wasn't the problem, it was the read progression. Look at prplhz. Maybe this is what Stutters means by loose reads. The first few lines from prp to scum Bourneq is (paraphrasing but can quote on request) "Can someone tell me why Bourneq is town" "I see nothing town" etc. You don't need to go into a crazy case. But you see these quotes: On April 10 2015 09:04 prplhz wrote: i don't know i have a better feeling about bourneq On April 10 2015 09:09 prplhz wrote: like i have zero reason to think bourneq is town. he doesn't seem to be doing any sort of thinking about the game unless prodded. bloodydwarf comes in here and says some weird shit about cops saving him. that seems very poorly thought out and like it's just something his fingers wrote and then he pressed enter. doesn't seem like something scum would just say. considering that scum know the setup i imagine they'd actually be inclined not to talk about it if they can avoid it. These quotes were from early D1. I tried to context Bourneq as a very new player to mafia well before I cased him. On April 13 2015 10:10 prplhz wrote: can anybody show me one single reason to think bourneq is town, one single incident of him trying to win the game for town? that would really help me. On April 13 2015 04:20 prplhz wrote: what i'm saying is that dwarf is looking townie so far and i'm not going to lynch him tomorrow unless something new happens that radically changes how i feel about him. which i consider highly unlikely. Followed by several one-liners of differentiating between bourneq and dwarf. (pages 8-10 of filter) I mentioned this before and Tube even pinged him out and so did Rasputin... What I'm driving at is we can't follow how he's setting one standard for Dwarf and one for Bourneq. I'm being more specific in what I was scumming Bourneq for, but this honestly gives a little credence to how Stutters is talking about loose reads. Like Page 1, Bourneq makes a noncomittal read and I am pretty sure I queried him on it to make sure it was a noob issue. The thing is I get the sense from the filter that he's hung onto that. I am hoping this makes sense. Filter diving is probably the best way to understand what I'm saying. | ||
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I honestly didn't consider him before because his slot in general has just been so inactive. I know in Newbie LX he was lurky town. Has he ever been borderline inactive as town? But I know you play with him elsewhere, and if his meta is a lurky scumgame, your vote makes perfect sense. | ||
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"People" aren't defending Dwarf. It's just prplhz whom some of us take issue with and we're hinting at a double standard in teh way he's treating Bourne and Dwarf. Most of us are nulling him, he's a policy vote for most of us. | ||
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Do you mean activity? Because after D2 he picked it up. Can you clarify that? | ||
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I'm not lynching Tubesock. No way. Dwarf is a policy lynch for me. I'm still extremely uncomfortable with the manner of prp's reads. Even with the argument that his actions EoD don't make him scum. The point Stutters keeps bringing up about bailing EoD for a run is irksome. A family/wife/whatever emergency is one thing, but... grrrrrrr.....game is hard. | ||
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On April 15 2015 04:41 The Shining wrote: Aside from what I said about him afking his "placeholder" vote on me for sleep, even though he hasn't so much as acknowledged my presence beforehand? See, others like you and Trfel have looked into me and questioned my activity. I couldn't find myself anywhere in his filter until the vote. It just feels like an effortless vote that can be defended as policy lynch. Also, his filter is very setup-centric and role centric. I can quote examples if asked but I'm on a phone. But time and again I see him talking about roles. Picking at Stutters possible bread crumb post. It feels less like genuine game solving and more like blue fishing. Also I tried to find some original thoughts in his filter. There are a lot of questioning of others' reads, then sheeping those. His possible scum list is basically Trfels. What? I'm not sure I agree on the setup centric argument. I know the vet/vig/roleblocking Holyflare thing came up N2, and honestly I didn't see anything wrong with it. Was there something specific that seemed off about that? I would think it's relatively standard to claim roleblocks - I know it was done in Student IV, and people claimed RB notifications in Titanic every night, so him asking to claim RBs isn't scummy inherently. | ||
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On April 15 2015 05:08 rsoultin wrote: lol what case hts? there was no case Word should have been argument, yeh, I know it wasn't a case, in the sense of a "shiny" case like I posted for instance. If I had to vote between prplhz and Breshke though, I'd be voting prplhz. I've explained the issues I've had with his reads. | ||
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Breshke's scum games are where he defends a lot of people and doesn't have/produce scumreads until closer to EoD. I know Stutters argued the meta can be changed but he seemed fine on this D1. | ||
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On April 13 2015 08:48 Breshke wrote: I am really interested what stutters means by the bolded.. On April 13 2015 14:25 Breshke wrote: Also i kind of want to vote stutters until he explains why we would all understand he was town on D2 because there's no point pretending he didn't say that. Shining - is this what you mean by the breadcrumbing post? I went over Breshke's filter with a fine tooth comb. Most of his discussion on Stutters was him focusing on the EoD switch to Stutters. | ||
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For the record, I re-read Titanic, I re-read the filter in his game, I even read Down Under 2. I still can't shake off the reads. | ||
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On April 15 2015 05:41 Breshke wrote: I would also lynch stutters for not taking a stance on me when he is trying to push his lynch since as town you shouldnt let arguments like this fester without trying to help out. Im also done with my reason for giving him the pass. Stutters has been pushing prplhz all of D2????? How is that not town behaviour pushing a lynch you believe in? All cycle long? | ||
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On April 15 2015 05:45 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Are you thinking that what if all 3 mafia are active? Inactive lynches are bad in this case. But I was going to do same, I was going to vote The Shining or Stutters. ##Vote The Shining | ||
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EBWOP from previous post - you're saying inactive lynches are bad but you're voting a relative inactive? | ||
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On April 15 2015 06:03 rsoultin wrote: tch -_- if i had a bullet >< though lol why does breshke try to hammer scummate prp stutters that i don't follow I'd have to agree here, I don't think those two are the same alignment given that. | ||
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On April 15 2015 06:07 The Shining wrote: FFS. Welp when you have town like that, you pretty much make life easy for scum. Fuck man. was that when you were godfather? I was bassically useless until D3 when I was almost mislynched. I came back and pinged two of the 3 scum but sheeped my townread instead of voting one and we lost in mylo. Yeh I was GF that game. | ||
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On April 15 2015 06:06 Bourneq wrote: Well prplhz has been defending dwarf the entire game, do you think he would do that knowing he would be very likely to be lynched anyway? I give prpl a lot of town points for that. He was defending Dwarf and willing to lynch you though, that was one of the things I had trouble with. | ||
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On April 15 2015 06:20 Trfel wrote: Anyway, I need to step back and take another look at this game. Re-filter everyone, check prplhz's meta, etc. But certainly not right now. When you do, read Roulette (Stutters linked it), Titanic 7, and Down Under 2 at the very least - he was MLed D1 and I realise the last one was a low-postcount game but you can see the difference. The irony is that I think his read formation, etc in this game is actually worse than it was in Titanic 7. Roulette though, read pages 4 and onwards, massive difference in the way he reasons. | ||
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I'm around for another 30-45 before I sleep. | ||
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Default Suspicions WH Champ 2 Carnival Cruise The first two games further supported the points brought up previously for him as a townie. But most notably, in the third game, Carnival Cruise, where he was mafia, he voted 2-3 players for being mafia on doing nothing or adding nothing of value to the game, which is what he's doing here to some extent. Kushm4sta was one of them, can't remember the other two offhand. Which gives even more credence to the theory has trouble coming up with scumreads as mafia. | ||
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On April 15 2015 06:17 Stutters695 wrote: Yeah, they are like 99% not the same alignment. I still think prpl is scum but I don't like that Breshke went from not wanting to lynch me but suspecting me to wanting to lynch me to sheeping my case. I don't have time for full on analysis, but his d2 seems worse the more I think about it. His D2 play was closer to his scum meta. I want to say the vote on him came approx 6-7h prior to EoD, but I'd have to double check since he was going to bed where he lives. Mafia agenda in his voting processes (from switching from Shining when he was scumreading Stutters, and unwilling to lynch Dwarf, switching to Shining and then possibly hammering prp) could be wanting to look good. He sheeped Trfel. On April 15 2015 05:48 Breshke wrote: This is true and a really good point. its the morning and im grumpy with people. I havn't looked at prp enough to vote him. So i really can't see myself doing. I think shsining is the way to go. Add trefel to my townlist Key is the bolded. | ||
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By hammering a nullread, he effectively saved someone he was townreading, prplhz. The vote was tied at 4-4, though Dwarf was first to 4 votes per the counter, anyone could have hammered prplhz. | ||
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On April 15 2015 09:28 jarjarbinks wrote: HTS do you think breshke and prp could be on the same team? Stutters (whom I'm townreading) provided the following explanation. On April 15 2015 06:33 Stutters695 wrote: Also, scum motivations for Breshke attempting to hammer: If prpl is town, he gets lynched and everything I've done all game is for naught making me a relatively easy mislynch with how divided we are. If prpl is scum, he gets lynched and gets massive town cred for hammering him. If this is the case that would mean that the third member thinks prpl is doomed anyway which has it's own implications. Or they're both town and we're royally fucked, but I doubt any of these are happening. We need to ask a few questions here: 1 Is Breshke a high-risk high-reward player? Like Toadesstern? Like sicklucker? 2 How likely is it that any player on D2 would hammer like this in a newbie game especially? | ||
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Scum claim time? | ||
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On April 15 2015 09:30 Half the Sky wrote: Shining, looking at the voting order, Trfel was townreading prplhz and his choices were hammering a townread in prplhz (vote would have been 4-5 with prp being lynched), hammering a nullread in Dwarf, or keeping his vote where it was. By hammering a nullread, he effectively saved someone he was townreading, prplhz. The vote was tied at 4-4, though Dwarf was first to 4 votes per the counter, anyone could have hammered prplhz. EBWOP - I think this is town agenda from Trfel. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Breshke] + [W] Newbie LVIII - Disney Princess Mafia Town Vanilla Town Killed Night 2 Newbie Mini Mafia LIX Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Campus Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 4 Student Mafia IV Town Vanilla Survived Day 6 Metal Mini Mafia! Mafia Vanilla Killed Night 1 New Years Eve Party Mini Mafia Mafia Roleblocker Killed Night 2 Student Mafia V Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 4 Horn of Africa Mini Mafia Town Vigilante Survived Day 3 | ||
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I'd like Rasputin to comment on that if she can since she played in that game. Even then this is a towngame Breshke. Not scum. A yolo play from him as scum would better support. Absent this, there isn't enough information to support the high-risk argument which would draw the conclusion that prplhz and Breshke are not the same alignment. But then again this is a student game. If yolo plays have fooled veterans.... >_< | ||
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Still nearly everyone is struggling to make sense of his switch. | ||
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On April 15 2015 09:49 jarjarbinks wrote: Hmm I liked the way breshke defended hts though, granted it was defending someone other than scumming them. I think I earlier give some cred because he liked one of my posts. biased and I shouldn't have thought that. still, could bresh acted poorly EOD because he was flustered town? does he get flustered often and play illogically in past town games? That is a fair question. I know he's scumsided at times as town, but to be straight up illogical I am not sure. And if the answer is yes, it would support the opposite alignment. From a town perspective, he was nullreading (as I understand he "didn't have the info") prplhz, would not lynch Dwarf and couldn't get the support for Shining. So he chose between a nullread and a (possible?) townread, and picked the nullread despite voting with a scumread. On April 15 2015 05:57 Breshke wrote: I will hammer prp to save dwarf. Prp has him as top town its what he would want. Also shining and rso pushing for him makes me feel even betetr about saving him I don't like the bolded in this first quote because you should vote based on your own alignment. If he's sheeping prp on the Dwarf read, then his vote on prp makes less sense. But I know he was scumming Shining and I think this is the second time he's mentioned Rasputin and those votes on Dwarf - if he is town - would keep him away from that wagon. On April 15 2015 05:59 Breshke wrote: sorry trefel i think tbd is more likely town than prp and scummers probaly on tbd wagon | ||
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On April 15 2015 09:58 rsoultin wrote: i'm not an authority on bresh, hts, but honestly i would not call him a high-risk player lol >< i would not call him a high-risk person in general. one thing i've always admired about him is how rational and even-keeled he tends to be Nothing in any scum play jumps at me as high-risk. I know in NYE Party, I battled a wagon for 90 minutes and scum Breshke was defending BOTH wagons. Meta point - lot of defending others in his scumgames, including Titanic 7. But in NYE, no high-risk play from him at all until he was vigi shot. I don't think he did jack all D2 in that game and town lost two in that day cycle - Oats was mislynched and I was modkilled. The support isn't there. | ||
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On April 15 2015 10:07 rsoultin wrote: breshke intimated more than once that he thought i was scum for scumreading him ^^ so assuming he's town that would make sense, hts Indeed it would. | ||
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On April 15 2015 06:01 LoneMeow wrote: Final vote count: TheBloodyDwarf (5): Bourneq, The Shining, Tubesock, rsoultin, Trfel Breshke (0): The Shining (1): Bourneq (1): prplhz Half the Sky (0): prplhz (4): Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Breshke Stutters695 (0): Bourneq voted Dwarf pretty darn early. He was scumming both prplhz and Dwarf. Could be a townie that's wrong or could be a scummer that saved prplhz and I think he was around EoD and did nothing. | ||
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On April 14 2015 22:04 Bourneq wrote: Prplhz activity in d2 is really poor. He has been consistent in 2 things, defending dwarf and trying to lynch the 1 person I can be absolut sure is town. D2 he seems to be sure about his scum read on stutters yet pushes a lynch on me instead. On April 15 2015 04:20 Bourneq wrote: I have always looked closely on prplhz but when I made a case against him I was acused of OMGUS so I dont think I would be the best person to make a good case against him. Comparing his filter to Dwarfs made me settle on a dwarf lynch seeing dwarf has contributed nothing. Newb town or newb scum? I can see either. I know I've asked him why he's defending policy reads over scum reads, but would that mean from a newb scum perspective he's wanting to look good for not wanting to vote someone for OMGUS reasons. Concern about appearance? Thoughts? | ||
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On April 14 2015 08:46 jarjarbinks wrote: So I'm trying to figure out stutters because most people are scumming him and I wasn't. I can take two conclusion from what he's done so far. 1. He is scum and not really trying. This is evident in his first read on bresh. His posting is rather small for someone who has played and knows the game. He seems to focus on himself and people talking to him over others His largest case is on prp, the guy who got the train started for him D1. 2. He is town and is going for a low content/high quality kind of game. Is probing and looking for reactions. His first read on Bresh didn't have much right? He was probably looking for a reaction there and didn't like the reaction, which is evident in his later post on him (i'll quote after this). He sets a trap for Trf. He doesn't really defend himself (I guess he's confident he won't get lynched?) but instead focuses on figuring people out in this game. The more I read his filter, the more I believe in #2. IF THIS IS TRUE, than I'm much more suspicious of the people on his train: tube, hts , and prp. With his low content posts, he appears to be an easy target. You could call it a trap? And guess what? All three were on my lists I drew up earlier. hts and prp drew red flags from me earlier. This also helps make the NK make more sense. Looks like I know where to look to find some scum lol On April 14 2015 13:28 jarjarbinks wrote: Prp- I wish I got to this. If I magically have free time tomorrow I will make a case. If not pretend I did and check him. Red flag + worse filter than HTS + earlier case I posted + on my list for most TR ##vote: Prp Looking through a few filters and trying to trace some progression here. It seems JJB, you didn't get to take a full case but I can see partially how you set some of the criteria for where your reads changed from D1 to D2 on prplhz. I see where you got the "worse filter" part and the "on my list for most TR" and I think I know what you mean by that second part even if you acknowledge it as faulty. But I went over your filter with fine tooth comb. What is the "red" flag you describe for him and "earlier case I posted" Page 3 of your filter/near end D1 you were townreading prplhz and the read change was based on you townreading Stutters and the prp filter. So I'm not clear on what you mean by the bolded in your list. To clarify, when you said you liked his earlier prodding of me early D2, so I'm trying to transpire what this "red flag" was that occurred later in D2 before you left for work. I realise you AFKed the vote because of RL, but I generally consider this NAI when RL is the issue. You AFKed just south of 12h before EoD. | ||
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On April 15 2015 22:53 Stutters695 wrote: Complete WIFOM, but I'm starting to think that them giving up on Prpl and him trying to get cred from the bus is actually viable based on how Prpl has been since and Bresh's reasoning. Got a bit before we need to deal with that though. AFK Work I also just realised looking at the votes that a thing to consider from the voting is that it was a possibility that the BloodyDwarf could have voted prplhz to save himself at any time, and especially if he'd done so before Trfel, the Breshke/Dwarf combination would have successfully hammered prplhz at 5-5 with prplhz being the tiebreaker. Final vote count: TheBloodyDwarf (5): Bourneq, The Shining, Tubesock, rsoultin, Trfel Breshke (0): The Shining (1): Bourneq (1): prplhz Half the Sky (0): prplhz (4): Stutters695, jarjarbinks, Half the Sky, Breshke Stutters695 (0): | ||
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As of now, I feel okay about JJB's rationale for the prplhz vote. There are some gaps I'd like to clear up since I'm not clear on the major points where he went from "probable town" on prplhz to "lynchables" though he's highlighted some of the other criteria which is in line with the rest of his progression. Regardless of where Breshke stands, we know there's one scum guaranteed on the Dwarf wagon and though he mentioned he wasnt' confident in his reads and the whole OMGUS thing if he was still scumreading prplhz, why he didn't take the other points we discussed on prplhz into consideration. (I don't think he was scumreading Stutters.) The points that he had on prplhz and the points discussed were all scummy behaviour and he still policy lynched. What bothers me a bit is that he gave prplhz town points for hard defending Dwarf all game. I want to question why he is so sure this is from a town motivation when 1 Dwarf wasn't close to being lynched D1 2 the train on Dwarf only really started taking off at 18:30 my time or 3.5h before EoD (Shining's vote was #2) and well after prplhz had afked for the day. I want to look into Tube as well to make sure I didn't miss anything in terms of read progression and Shining reads particularly from D1 to D2. | ||
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Regardless of where Breshke stands, we know there's one scum guaranteed on the Dwarf wagon and though Bourneq mentioned he wasnt' confident in his reads and the whole OMGUS thing if he was still scumreading prplhz, why Bourneq didn't take the other points we discussed on prplhz into consideration. (I don't think he was scumreading Stutters.) The points that he had on prplhz and the points discussed were all scummy behaviour and he still policy lynched. | ||
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One argument potentially in favour of Breshke is whether it is likely for him (or whether he has a history of) to do illogical things as town. Because as we all know, townies can do dumb things at times. I mean, I sure as hell did in several of my town games (or aligned) with voting (reference: Carol voting a null read in Tubesock over a scumread, I scumsided hard every night in Aperture, voting down in JOAT a paranoia/fear read on sicklucker over a more hard scumread in sandroba) so I think that is probably another thing to check on him before being absolutely sure. Which is why I'm trying to ferret out other people on the Dwarf wagon, seeing as I'm mostly confident the remaining three of us on the prplhz wagon are pure. Being confident of prplhz as scum, should be able to locate at least one suspicious person on the Dwarf wagon. Bourneq is my top candidate atm. If two people are looking bad or potential scum on the wagon then we can PoE Breshke as town. | ||
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I know he does have a history of AFKing at times as either alignment so I'm going to ignore the drop in activity alone. | ||
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I know the world of Liquidia generally loathes list posts but here we go: Confirmed town: TBD, plot, Soren/HF, myself Town Rasputin - well, duh Trfel - the analysis is there, and I'm seeing change in reads based on evidence Stutters - post d1 activity and pushes have been spot on Townlean: JJB - Decent filter - some gaps in the prplhz change in reads, but could mostly follow. Doesn't seem to have an agenda. Under review: Breshke - D1 activity okay, D2 activity illogical, need to check town meta Tubesock - Trace all read progression. Did town him for tinfoil/GF theories, but needed to see how he drove the Dwarf lynch. Need to review why he dropped prplhz as a scumread. Shining - Super low activity from him and Ace. Meta-ed him post-lynch and didn't look good but need to check latest posts. Probable scum: Bourneq - Did scumread prplhz, could have explored others' scumreads on prplhz but effectively policy lynched. Newb scum error? Lynch it with fire prplhz - Do I need to beat a dead horse with this one? | ||
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I also knew something was off given how serious JJB was and Ras-pew-tin didn't call him out on his tone. I should have had at least Tubesock though. I am so bad at this game. Just fuck it. GGs scumteam </3 | ||
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The fact it happened a third time...I mean it seemed too easy but I see why the decision was made to go that way - ignorance by the scum team. If someone's THAT forgettable (Bourneq in this case). I am curious though, and I don't mean to ping any coaches on this one, but it seemed a number of the newbies were a bit overwhelmed this game. Did you lot have help or enough feedback from your coaches? I would encourage you to sign up for the Student 8 game - you will have coaches again if under 4 games. For the vets, sign up for Hajime no Ippo - a manga-themed game. I'm helping develop it and we have a good show going down. It will be loads of fun. | ||
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On April 18 2015 07:47 Damdred wrote: Just want to say new. People use your coaches more IDK how the others were but one of my qts had 3 posts. It made me sad but meh, good job Scum I had job and tube as Scum though My coaching QT was about ~170 posts when I got NKed. It didn't help me because I'm one of the worst town players in TL. xD Seriously newbies. the coaches are there to help you. Ask questions and link posts and actively read the thread. We had a good set of coaches too. If you are pressed for time, find ways to manage your priorities in thread. Focus on the scummiest players or a smaller group of players. | ||
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Also town had terrible RNG, nerfed setup (no DT, christ we needed a DT this game) and Holyflare subbing in at night instead of start D2. Bad luck there. Ras-pew-tin would have been DOA there. | ||
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Artanis was my coach. Much <3 to the protoss. | ||
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On April 18 2015 07:56 Holyflare wrote: don't replace till end of cycles next time plz ty <3 100% | ||
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On April 18 2015 07:34 Trfel wrote: I'm so sorry, I threw this game all by myself............. If I just didn't block town from playing the game normally, we would have been okay. I thought we were set, and I could afford to sidetrack the entire thread by arguing with mafia. I was so, so wrong. Tubesock, just a warning, if you're going to try and lynch me, you really need to do a better job. And next time I won't let you interfere with the entire thread, I'll actually use my head once in a while. No you didn't. I think everyone had one or two fatal mistakes in them. It happens. It's not one person's fault for throwing necessarily. Tubesock's read progression was questionable and I wanted to case him but I didn't get a chance to. I was hoping my legacy post would get someone to at least look that direction. I've also never gotten nightkilled, and I was shocked when I was because like I said before I'm pretty terrible at town. | ||
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EDIT: Yeh, figures it was.....damn you lady </3 | ||
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On April 18 2015 07:56 Trfel wrote: Protoss! XD Yeh...he hasn't taken too well to me being a dota player. He is trying to corrupt me into the Starcraft/BW sort of thing....no, I'll take dota over that shit anyday. | ||
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On April 18 2015 08:01 Trfel wrote: I kind of flamed Tubesock pretty badly.... Tubesock, I'm sorry. I won't do it ever again. Promise. The tiff between you and Tubesock was NOTHING compared to some of the things going down between some of the vets in the large games. | ||
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On April 18 2015 08:05 The Shining wrote: THIS IS WHY YOU END GAMED ME WHEN I JOINED. League for life. >.> NO. JUST NO. OMG. My husband plays League. It bugs me to NO end. And he makes fun of me for playing dota. HATE so much. | ||
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You heard it here first. | ||
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On April 18 2015 08:04 rsoultin wrote: lol it wasn't to get even hts you actually were the unlynchable townie after day 2...it was very obvious you were town and you were considering everything, whereas players like stutters/prp/bresh were just tunneled you were the biggest threat Ehhhhhhhhh......I was pretty focused on prplhz....eh I dunno. I guess that gives me some confidence in my townplay? | ||
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On April 18 2015 08:56 rsoultin wrote: if you're talking about robik i did that on purpose lol ^^; so just...don't do it on purpose? Plotspot - I moderated that game, so I can definitely say this - and most other mods will agree but here's the thing with that situation: The vast majority of moderators will never have a problem if you use a forceful tone/a few swear words when focusing on an argument. It is when you start using personal attacks and start attacking the person (like saying I hope you get AIDS or not wanting to play with the person again in a certain game) then it becomes grounds for a warning or a modkill depending on the extent. In that situation, this individual - Robik - went through nearly a page of personal insults, and one particular post was borderline criminal. It had zero place ever in a TL game. I had no choice but to remove him from the game especially as he was subsequently forum banned. See, ripping a case apart is okay. Calling someone's argument absurd/idiotic/bullshit/rubbish/whatever is okay. But once you wade into the ad hominem territory depending on the moderator, you risk either a warning to a modkill and if you get modkilled, you will have been issued a standard behaviour ban in post-game. There's nothing wrong with showing passion for or against a position, but you need to do it in a way that is appropriate. | ||
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On April 18 2015 22:24 marvellosity wrote: jarjar + rsou were pretty catchable as a pair because jarjar wasn't very crazy (scummy for him) and rsou was never calling him out (so scum together) I told Artanis this D1 in my coaching qt but was discouraged from making such associative reads. :/ | ||
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explanation. Buuuuuttttttt still no scumhunting....
