EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 70
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
On February 21 2015 23:08 Palmar wrote: Shining, do you intend to vote for me? As of this moment, yes. But I've been up all night at work, home now, I'll be back in a few hours after sleep. Give me a reason not to vote you. If you're town, you should be less concerned on where I'm voting and more concerned with scumhunting and finding an alternate lynch instead of yourself. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
The Shining, by no means do I intend to waste today. While I do not see myself lynching anyone other than Palmar, simply because I do not see him flipping town, that does not mean that I will stop reading and ignore arguments. Even though I don't see how it is possible, I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried that Palmar would flip town. Again, this is Palmar replacing into a game on a weekend.... which means that literally zero posts from Palmar wouldn't necessarily implicate him. I will look at other possibilities. | ||
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jarjarbinks
569 Posts
I honestly don't want to go to far into this because I want Tere to come back and play more games. You do deserve to know what points are the most important to defend yourself though. The point that struck home for me the most was Tere's switch on Trf when Silver was looking worse and worse. In Tere's reads, she clearly has Silver as very scummy and part of the mafia team with Trf. I think town Tere would have gone after Silver first, while telling people to look at Trf's filter and make her case on Trf the next day. Instead, she goes after a mostly townread (by everyone I believe) Trf with her case while the other scum is literally at the chopping block. The mafia Tere is much more likely to try to go after Trf to save silver for another round, while at the same time taking down one of the more active towns. Shining, I think your idea is a good one. We have time to relook at things just in case Tere/Palmar is town. I'm really struggling to do this because Tere looks so mafia right now, but I put down my thoughts. Trf has been making most of the strongest cases in this game, which really strengthens the argument that he is town. I think Tere's case showed how it might be possible that he is mafia, but his last mafia game is nothing compared to this one if he actually is mafia. He's been carrying the team on this game. I have been mostly townreading you throughout this game, and looking back through your filter, it's hard for me to see you being the mafia. If you were mafia, the activity you showed in Day1 to your rant is drastically different from your rant-now which would definitely help your end game which poses a red flag? The lack of people really scumreading you late game could also be a red flag. But I definitely believe your reasoning behind your activity change and your play throughout the game has been towny to me. Zlefin appears towny since D1. Looking back through his Day1 filter, I can see how town zlefin played D1 as well. I guess my only concern here would be that nobody has scumread him since D1 really (besides silver I guess). Most people have kind of left him alone. As a new player, you would think mafia would look at him. But he has looked very towny since D1 I believe. As far as carrying town, I think he has done the least out of the three (besides me) yet still appears very towny, so I think I would consider him very suspicious after a relook if Tere/Palmar actually turns town. I could see myself being mafia if I was any of yall lol I always get voted for in these games because of my play and I haven't yet. I had an outlier D1. I waffled on Trf D2. A lot of my reads were not original. My voting analysis has me as primary suspect after day 1 and still suspicious play in D2. And yet I haven't been scumread much lol | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
You have been in the game. I just replaced in. It is completely unreasonable on your part to expect me to read bs analyze multiple filters over me expecting you to explain a single read on a single player that you have had days to develop. So I ask again. Why am I mafia? I don't understand why that is a difficult question to answer. Surely if you intend to kill me you must have a good reason for doing so. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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jarjarbinks
569 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On February 21 2015 21:39 Palmar wrote: As a fun project, how about everyone that intends to lynch me puts together in their own words a summary as to why I must be mafia. Please demonstrate why my previous actions in this game must necessarily come from mafia. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes per player, there is virtually no downside in doing it, and a huge upside (you might dodge a mislynch!) I don't want to spend the time. I'd already had this lynch chosen before you subbed into the game; and nothing Tere could've said would change it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Actually, I'd prefer to see where Palmar stands on this first, if he is willing? Though I can't fault him for spending all of today (normal 24-hour day) defending himself and not filter diving like crazy. But if Palmar doesn't mind, it could be effective if everyone keeps their lynch alternatives to themselves until he shares. It would help get a read on Palmar, which is critical at this point. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On February 22 2015 01:56 Trfel wrote: While I will definitely take a look at lynch alternatives, I will not do so this very moment. Actually, I'd prefer to see where Palmar stands on this first, if he is willing? Though I can't fault him for spending all of today (normal 24-hour day) defending himself and not filter diving like crazy. But if Palmar doesn't mind, it could be effective if everyone keeps their lynch alternatives to themselves until he shares. It would help get a read on Palmar, which is critical at this point. Yeah no, this is not happening. Think about it logically. Who I think is mafia is technically quite irrelevant isn't it? My reads, based on at best loosely skimming end of days, filters, openings and other important things, are never (in theory) going to be as good as the reads of all the other townies in this game. Even if I suddenly became confirmed town, it'd be quite silly to trust me to lead the lynch, seeing as I'm working with far less information than everyone else in the game. I ask again, you say you wrote some case (that I haven't read). Summarize and/or link it here, in a single post, so I can see WHY you think I am mafia. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On February 22 2015 01:56 zlefin wrote: I don't want to spend the time. I'd already had this lynch chosen before you subbed into the game; and nothing Tere could've said would change it. This is such a monumentally stupid stance to take. If you follow through with this, and you happen to be town, you will be the most to blame of everyone in the game for this mislynch. You refuse to play the game because you're terrible (or maybe mafia? in which case I'm fine with it). | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 22 2015 02:03 Palmar wrote: I linked it to you when I first greeted you. Here it is.Yeah no, this is not happening. Think about it logically. Who I think is mafia is technically quite irrelevant isn't it? My reads, based on at best loosely skimming end of days, filters, openings and other important things, are never (in theory) going to be as good as the reads of all the other townies in this game. Even if I suddenly became confirmed town, it'd be quite silly to trust me to lead the lynch, seeing as I'm working with far less information than everyone else in the game. I ask again, you say you wrote some case (that I haven't read). Summarize and/or link it here, in a single post, so I can see WHY you think I am mafia. In summary, I think that you are mafia because Tere's reads showed a lack of critical thinking, she had suspicious interactions with our Day 1 (mis)lynch Hier, her interactions with flipped mafia Silverarte were suspicious, and her Day 2 push to get me lynched was a complete departure from logic, so I don't see how town could do that. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On February 22 2015 02:08 Trfel wrote: I linked it to you when I first greeted you. Here it is. yeah already found it. It's massive and I will never be able to respond to every single post in it, I'm probably not going to read it. I haven't even read Tere's filter. But your summary is interesting. On February 22 2015 02:08 Trfel wrote: In summary, I think that you are mafia because Tere's reads showed a lack of critical thinking, Okay so a general statement. Can you show me one specific instance of exactly this? On February 22 2015 02:08 Trfel wrote: she had suspicious interactions with our Day 1 (mis)lynch Hier, I don't quite understand how this can be the case. Show me one specific instance (feel free to copy/paste some specific part from your case). On February 22 2015 02:08 Trfel wrote:her interactions with flipped mafia Silverarte were suspicious, Again, show me exactly one specific instance. On February 22 2015 02:08 Trfel wrote:and her Day 2 push to get me lynched was a complete departure from logic, so I don't see how town could do that. Actually it's usually townies who throw away logic, but ok. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 21 2015 01:55 Trfel wrote: Then come Tere's massive Walls of Text at the start of Day 2. Her vote analysis implicates ElyAs and The Shining. She says that ElyAs's vote looks bad for constantly expressing doubt and suggesting that he needs to look for counterwagons, but never actually doing so. Note that Tere suggested several times that she should look for counterwagons, and never did so, either. Of all of us, ElyAs put by far the most effort into looking for counterwagons. Conclusion: Tere's read is perhaps not genuine. As for The Shining, his vote on Hier did not look that good on the surface, but he is honest about it, and I really like that. We all agreed that most of the lynches didn't look good at that time, so it's okay if he is uneasy about it. That said, Tere completely ignores the fact that The Shining's initial pressure on zlefin is exactly that, a pressure (The Shining stated this significantly before this post from Tere). And as a pressure, it actually looks rather towny. Conclusion: Tere's vote analysis is designed to implicate her scumreads, not the other way around. Also note that yet again, Silverarte gets townread for something that I find suspect. Silverarte's vote is ill-explained, and for an easy target, which makes up for her being the second one on the wagon. I also find myself townread for a vote which I don't think looked towny at all. I recently asked The Shining for his opinion on my vote, and here is his response. As for Tere's suspicious behavior towards Hier, everything is just a ton of minor points, and I can't take one specific instance and have it mean anything. In summary, Tere expressed the desire to look for counterwagons and said that it was good that my stance was to go easy when talking to Hier to prevent him from quitting. However, as soon as Hier appeared in the thread, Tere was extremely aggressive towards him and immediately, all of her doubt over his alignment seemed to vanish. Here are Tere's stances on Silverarte and why they are suspicious. The strongest point is that Tere was so determined to lynch Silverarte instead of me, while scumreading us both to the same degree. + Show Spoiler + On February 21 2015 01:55 Trfel wrote: This is Tere's first read on Silverarte. It seems rather easy to accept Silverarte as a bad lynch for Day 1. Tere's link is broken, but in that time period, Silverarte only had one interesting post, describing why she was scumreading Hier. But Silverarte's post is boring and does not show critical thinking. At the end of Night 1, Tere posts her overall reads and voting analysis. Both contain a poor read on Silverarte. In particular, Tere's voting analysis on Silverarte seems rather poor, I get the opposite impression from Silverarte's vote and reasoning. Then I scumread Silverarte. Silverarte immediately and suspiciously enters the thread, and Tere uses this suspicious entrance to scumread Silverarte as well. After several town reads on Silverarte, it seems that Tere is taking this opportunity to leave herself the option to scumread Silverarte if it is necessary. I also note that Tere investigated Silverarte's previous game (a town game), and decided that her play in this game was very similar to her play in last game. Even from the first few posts, they are extremely different. Take a look for yourself. Also extremely suspect is Tere's clear desire to lynch me before Silverarte. As for Tere's push on me.... She decided to suddenly push a player who she had been townreading all game. A player who had been leading town, contributing cases, and sharing thoughts on basically everything in the thread. And she had been following my reads all game long to that point. You don't sheep someone all game long and then decide they are sure scum while keeping all of the reads you copied from them. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On February 22 2015 02:05 Palmar wrote: This is such a monumentally stupid stance to take. If you follow through with this, and you happen to be town, you will be the most to blame of everyone in the game for this mislynch. You refuse to play the game because you're terrible (or maybe mafia? in which case I'm fine with it). Since you're being rude I'm just going to ignore you after this. There are plenty of good reasons, and they have all been detailed in the thread by myself and others. I don't want to do extra work because someone else subbed in last minute into a position which was already going to be lynched. I already did a lot of analysis and thinking and talking which points to where the best lynch is. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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