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Ahhh, I need to get dinner, and I haven't finished reading the thread yet... Point made, I am the slowest reader ever.
More thoughts will come after dinner. For now, I will talk about the Bridges method.
I think that it is a bad idea to use the Bridges method in this game. The main reason for this is that so far, seven players have commented on it (all except for Silverarte and Mimeux/replacement), and six of them seem to have said that they don't think it is a good method (jarjarbinks is the only player who I might be misinterpreting here, though). The only one clearly in favor of it is its creator, Hier.
That said, I still think that it is a suboptimal way to play the game. My reasons for this have been stated many times, by myself and others. Therefore, I do not think that we will be using the method in this game, and I expect everyone to agree with this, since we need to work together.
Hier, it seems to me that your reason for creating the Bridges method is to make the game more objective, and more based on logic instead of guesswork. Mafia can, and often is, played with the focus on logic instead of randomly guessing. Cases involving logical arguments are extremely powerful.
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On February 16 2015 09:29 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you actually believe Hier is scum or do you just disapprove of his idea? Town can be wrong right?
Maybe next game you can be mother hen xD lol
Town can never be wrong. Your statement is wrong, so you are scum.
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On February 16 2015 09:07 The Shining wrote:
Um, is no one going to even remotely address my slight push on Zlefin? Odd.
Hmm, I would say that Zlefin will probably need to address more opinions than what he has. You were commenting on the inactives before your push on zlefin too. That being said, you have given your reads while he has not.
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By all means, take your time. You played in the only 2 games I've played here, you know how bad I can be at responding. I understand. Thankfully its freezing here in NY so work is quiet enough for me to be on here.
Thank you for answering me too, Ely. You parroted thoughts on it being a pressure vote. Looking forward to seeing your Hier response analysis.
Hier, I dove RSo in response to your push to see how much weight your case holds. And eh. She is adamant about her read on you. She evolved from null to tonal town on Trfel. JJB was questioned, red flagged for something, immediately rescinded once it was explained. Looks like scumhunting and more than just nulls to me.
Your oracle reply was nice and witty, too. So you have no other reads as they haven't come to completion yet? We have at least 5 pages of active posts. I find it a bit hard to believe.
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On February 16 2015 09:30 Trfel wrote:
Ahhh, I need to get dinner, and I haven't finished reading the thread yet... Point made, I am the slowest reader ever.
More thoughts will come after dinner. For now, I will talk about the Bridges method.
I think that it is a bad idea to use the Bridges method in this game. The main reason for this is that so far, seven players have commented on it (all except for Silverarte and Mimeux/replacement), and six of them seem to have said that they don't think it is a good method (jarjarbinks is the only player who I might be misinterpreting here, though). The only one clearly in favor of it is its creator, Hier.
That said, I still think that it is a suboptimal way to play the game. My reasons for this have been stated many times, by myself and others. Therefore, I do not think that we will be using the method in this game, and I expect everyone to agree with this, since we need to work together.
Hier, it seems to me that your reason for creating the Bridges method is to make the game more objective, and more based on logic instead of guesswork. Mafia can, and often is, played with the focus on logic instead of randomly guessing. Cases involving logical arguments are extremely powerful.
Unless there is something we are missing from this method that magically makes our reads easier, I would have to say that it isn't a good method. I think it would work better if we were playing a mafia game where we could see each other's faces or something along those lines.
I agree we should all decide NOT to use the method. Most people are more confident in their vote analysis (including me) than in something they haven't used before. It doesn't make sense for 1 or 2 people to use the method while everyone else doesn't in my mind.
My read on Hier based on his play: I think he's town. Made up a strange method that he obviously believes in. Does it work? Probably not. He was willing to stand up for it though. I don't see why he would suggest this idea as a trap. Maybe it is hindsight, but I also don't see him doing it to get towncred. I think he should now focus on getting an idea of reads on people instead of fighting angry Rso.
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On February 16 2015 09:31 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 09:29 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you actually believe Hier is scum or do you just disapprove of his idea? Town can be wrong right?
Maybe next game you can be mother hen xD lol Town can never be wrong. Your statement is wrong, so you are scum.
lolz dang it you caught me! lol
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JJB seems to be the only one even remotely open to the Bridges method, provided proof that it would actually help town win. I do think it would've been better if it was actually explained how this would better town to win. As of right now, it has only caused confusion and chaos, which is unfortunately a scum tactic. And besides RSo, no one is really willing to push him yet. I need to see him come back to the thread.
And watch JJB and Trfel closely. RSo's case is pretty convincing, imo. Trfel decided to post a wall of text solely addressing a method that is almost surely at this point not going to happen. In all that time, you could've read a filter, made a case, something other than that long post that told me absolutely nothing. Anyone other than Hier posting that much about it is a bit troublesome.
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I am curious to see where Zfelin's and Elyas's reads are right now. Has the last few pages changed things?
Rsoultin: if say no one joined your bandwagon, do you have anyone else you are suspicious of?
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EBWOP this is like the third time I post something and a post RIGHT before it makes it wrong. Damn I can't wait to get home. That first line saying JJB seems to be the only one even remotely entertaining the Hier theory was before I saw the post where he thinks its a bad idea.
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I'm actually having trouble analyzing the rsoultin - Hier exchange. It's late in my timezone and i'm starting to doze off.
First impression is that Hier is a misguided town, but i'm not convinced on that read, because he has mainly done two things :
1)Defend his Bridges plan.
2)Attack rsoultin.
Hier, can you really not share your reads, even if they are not complete ? Any insight can be useful at this point in the game.
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On February 16 2015 09:00 kitaman27 wrote:
Mimeux will be replaced once I hear back from a few people.
Lol, if that was because of my post I'm sorry but lol >< Dude I cannot be that scary xP
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On February 16 2015 09:29 jarjarbinks wrote:
Rsoultin: Do you actually believe Hier is scum or do you just disapprove of his idea? Town can be wrong right?
Maybe next game you can be mother hen xD lol
My vote is not because of his idea, and in fact his idea may actually be effective if used properly even though I don't think so xP Hard to tell before the idea is tried.
I do think there is the potential that he is scum, yes.
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On February 16 2015 09:58 jarjarbinks wrote:
I am curious to see where Zfelin's and Elyas's reads are right now. Has the last few pages changed things?
Rsoultin: if say no one joined your bandwagon, do you have anyone else you are suspicious of?
Yes lol. We still have about 24 hours, and some of the participating players I haven't looked into very closely yet. Also, angry Rso? ;o; I'm just animated.
If you think Hier is town solely for his creation, who do you think is scum, JJB?
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The reason that I posted yet again about the Bridges method is because Hier is still supporting it. I want to decide conclusively if we are going to use it or not, because we absolutely cannot proceed if we don't know how we are going to be playing the game. We seem to be clearly on the same page, and we will NOT use the method, so that is settled.
The Shining, your point would have validity if I didn't eventually get through reading the thread and checking people to the extent that I would like. However, since I fully intend to do that, the few minutes I spent typing that post are largely irrelevant.
I am also suspicious of Hier at this point. His proposing the Bridges method does not really seem to be mafia motivated, and his defense of it seems to be genuine, but he really hasn't done anything that scum coudn't do. While putting himself in the spotlight isn't something that mafia!Hier would really want, it isn't that unexpected, either. In my one game as mafia, I put myself in the spotlight early on.
I don't like how Hier has attempted to defend his method, but has not answered questions pertaining to its biggest flaws.
However, Hier's counter push on rsoultin actually isn't terrible. Rsoultin's view on Hier did change somewhat, and it is standard to explain yourself when you start a wagon.
On February 16 2015 07:32 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 01:16 rsoultin wrote:
So I have a problem with you, Hier.
First you're nitpicking a post that has already been corrected xP Bad form.
Second, while I find your little set-up thing interesting (read: a concept I haven't seen put into practice before) it has flaws. Namely, it puts everything on auto-pilot and actually makes it less likely for people to do any work or analysis unless they're the ones on the block. Yuck. Admittedly I could still see a townie bringing up the idea and thinking it's good.
Third, and most damning...all you've done all game is blather on about setting up an automated circle lynch. Got any reads, Hier? Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 03:11 rsoultin wrote:I'll poke silverarte. Also, Trfel, same thought on JJB's post. JJB, can you show me how you arrived at the 47% number? I'm not as good at math but I can at least verify that it's valid when I see it in front of me.  Not as quick to read Hiel...hie...whatever his name is lol >< as town, though. Throwing things into a random number generator and drawing an (MSpaint?) graphic isn't exactly a ton of work, and he's done nothing to show that he cares about finding scum. Maybe when he comes back he'll change my mind. Pretty simple there, Hier. Now where are those reads?
On February 01 2015 04:59 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 04:52 Trfel wrote:On February 01 2015 04:49 rsoultin wrote:On February 01 2015 04:45 Half the Sky wrote:On February 01 2015 04:42 rsoultin wrote:
If this is truly the best case, this thread needs life support xP
Daaaammmdred. You're not helping yourself here exactly...you aren't particularly assertive this game. At all. This is my fourth game with you so I am qualified here to say that something isn't quite right. Step it up m'lady. ##unvote
##vote Rasputin Ya know, I do kinda get where y'all get the misconception that I'm always aggressive, but I actually need something hitting me in the face to want to chase after. I'm not seeing that. And I'm really not understanding where anyone else is seeing it, either. Not going to just RNG someone to tunnel to satisfy y'all's expectations of my "bulldog" reputation, thank you much. I still don't know why have (or at least think you have) a tunneling reputation. Your play seems fine to me. But you really aren't scumreading anyone at this point? Lol, it sounds bad and I should just throw out names to appease the masses, but I'm not seeing it. Your entrance has been better. Others are just question marks. I'm not certain about several people, including Damdred, SL and Robik...Palmar for me would be a policy lynch though the vets are calling it a meta read... But as for strong lynch them now scum, no. For reference, the first quote is from Linux Mini Mafia, in which rsoultin was town. I believe I have made my point, though. While it is certainly poor for Hiel to have no reads other than the rsoultin scumread, it is still possible to come from town.
I'm not going to townread Hier for his Bridges scheme, and I don't believe that his play since then has been very impressive. There is a fair chance that he is scum, but at the moment I don't want to jump on it.
I don't really see the case on zlefin. He hasn't done anything remarkable, but he hasn't done anything scummy, either. Mentioning policy lynching is normally considered a scummy thing to do, but in my experience it is null. People always yell at the first player to suggest policy lynching, and they often end up being town.
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On February 16 2015 10:38 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 09:58 jarjarbinks wrote:
I am curious to see where Zfelin's and Elyas's reads are right now. Has the last few pages changed things?
Rsoultin: if say no one joined your bandwagon, do you have anyone else you are suspicious of? Yes lol. We still have about 24 hours, and some of the participating players I haven't looked into very closely yet. Also, angry Rso? ;o; I'm just animated. If you think Hier is town solely for his creation, who do you think is scum, JJB?
lol angry because you scared away the newbie!
Hmm you have a point there. I don't have a legitimate scumread that I would be confident in voting on right now. Let me go reread and see if I can pick up something xD Initially I would be worried about Zfelin and Shining (although I really liked Shining's last post about me and Trf). Silver still hasn't posted, so hopefully that happens soon. I didn't like Trf's pocket comment/joke (was it a joke?). While I thought that making a weird strategy was townie, it would be nice for Hiel to answer all of the questions people asked him.
I have like Elyas's posts so far to a degree. Much better than my first game on here that's for sure lol
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My comment about mafia!rsoultin having me pocketed was only partially a joke. It was more of a safety mechanism, so to speak.
To explain, rsoultin and I appear to be thinking in rather similar ways at the moment (if not acting in identical manners). Thus, I am inclined to think that she is town. The reason that I directly acknowledged that is to ensure that I don't townread rsoultin too strongly. If I want to solidly defend her, my comment ensured that I will need to find reasons in addition to her push on Hier.
There's a very good chance that what I just said makes no sense to anyone but me. Oh well.
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Cool Cool Trf. Just checking. Trf is Hier your biggest scumread as of now? I was looking through your filter and didn't find many scumreads/scumhunting besides that last one on Her.
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Zfelin: Do you mind answering my previous question? Not much scumreading/scumhunting there either. I guess there was the impression read on me, but I haven't seen much else. If you are suspicious of me, please feel free to ask me questions about my posts. I have been told I don't always make much sense lol
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I retract my position on the shining. Has scumhunted/given reads a lot. I like a lot of the posts too. Solid filter, despite not having many posts. Probably one of my strongest townreads right now.
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EPT
