EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 10
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Hier, really not liking the OMGUS. Really not liking it at all. Doesn't make you mafia, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it, either. Also, Hier, I don't believe that we are going to be following your Bridges plan this game. Whether or not it is a good strategy, it won't work unless people agree to use it, and I believe that at the moment, you are the only one who wants to use it. While I appreciate you sharing the strategy with us, and it is very interesting, and I will definitely try to use people's reactions to it to help discern people's alignments, I don't think that we will actually be using it this game unless it gathers significantly more support in the near future. Zlefin, votes don't always mean that you want to lynch someone right now. Votes can be used for pressure, or to make a statement. Using my vote in a larger variety of ways is something that I need to improve on, since I usually only wait until later in the day and then vote who I want to see lynched. I could be better about using my vote to gather information. Rsoultin, I like the push. I just got back, I'll have more detailed thoughts in a bit after I reread the thread. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
Zlefin has a couple of posts that lead nowhere and weak and unexplained reads. Mentions WIFOM, game voting rules, some parroting. Says Hier and RSo could both be town or both be scum but wont commit to his reads. Seems to be all for policy lynching inactives when there were only 2. How likely is it both scum members are inactive? Likely my leading candidate for a shot at D1 scum lynch. On that note, TSM VS CLG is starting so I'll be back in an hour ish if anyone has questions or wants to interact with me. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 16 2015 01:16 rsoultin wrote: So I have a problem with you, Hier. First you're nitpicking a post that has already been corrected xP Bad form. Second, while I find your little set-up thing interesting (read: a concept I haven't seen put into practice before) it has flaws. Namely, it puts everything on auto-pilot and actually makes it less likely for people to do any work or analysis unless they're the ones on the block. Yuck. Admittedly I could still see a townie bringing up the idea and thinking it's good. Third, and most damning...all you've done all game is blather on about setting up an automated circle lynch. Got any reads, Hier? On February 16 2015 03:11 rsoultin wrote: I'll poke silverarte. Also, Trfel, same thought on JJB's post. JJB, can you show me how you arrived at the 47% number? I'm not as good at math but I can at least verify that it's valid when I see it in front of me.  Not as quick to read Hiel...hie...whatever his name is lol >< as town, though. Throwing things into a random number generator and drawing an (MSpaint?) graphic isn't exactly a ton of work, and he's done nothing to show that he cares about finding scum. Maybe when he comes back he'll change my mind. Pretty simple there, Hier. Now where are those reads? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:32 rsoultin wrote: Pretty simple there, Hier. Now where are those reads? Uh, are you reading the thread? He made it pretty clear that he is scumreading you. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 16 2015 06:38 The Shining wrote: Personally, I was against Hiers Bridges as I read it as it would take vote analysis away from me, which along with posting inconsistencies are my strongest scumhunting tools. Most points I would make against it have already been elaborated on so I won't beat a dead horse. Just not for it. That being said, Hier is a very slight townread for me. I don't think scum would put themselves in the spotlight so early with a strategy that unwittingly favors scum. RSo feels like townRSo. She's in like every game I've played recently, here and elsewhere, and I'm not picking up anything out of the norm. Direct questions and responses, scumhunting, engaging. However, see above for why I think you're wrong about Hier. Does scum, especially in a newbie game, have the balls to suggest something like that? I could see it being misguided town. This particular point is one I'm sick and tired of xP It was used to defend Trfel when you and him were scum together. To me, it's null. Just as it was null with Trfel. Until I see something from Hier to make me think he could be town (i.e. actively trying to figure out the game) my vote remains. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:33 Trfel wrote: Uh, are you reading the thread? He made it pretty clear that he is scumreading you. Lol an OMGUS vote for pisspoor reasons when I've been saying why I'm not townreading him throughout the game? xP Where are his other reads? Super easy to go they're scum cause they called me scum lol. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote: jarjarbinks, Trfel: Purely numerically completely off the wall random lynches win out over the Bridges method by a little over 2 percentage points at the second lynch; it is negligible. In both cases mafia’s odds of escaping 2 lynches in a row are a little better than a coin flip. Better blind mathematical odds are not, however, what I’m advocating. I am selling a platform, a canvas, through which reads can be made. You say people will be content with the predetermined 2nd lynch and activity will drop – I say you’re wrong. As long as there are 2 sides that want to win arguments will always arise, except in this case they will be of a different nature: justification of substitution, rather than a timed mandatory witch hunt. Bandwagons will certainly not be eliminated, but through this method they will demand sturdier foundations, which eliminates chaos. Let’s spice things up. rsoultin: In 3 separate posts you have described your reads to be null towards people that have posted, and despite you not liking the Bridges method, which is fine, said that it is something a town player may suggest thinking it’s good. Later, after someone mentioned they weren't a fan of my model, you've gone to suggest that I've done nothing to show that I care about finding scum, all the while you proclaim your reads are null and just ask what other players’ reads are. That is the way mafia players probe the scene to start a bandwagon. Why else, out of the blue, without any further analysis, would you vote me to be lynched with the phrase “Tell me why I’m wrong, or get onboard.”? No, it is your job to tell everyone the reasons behind your vote, not to tell everyone to get onboard. I vote rsoultin. I know who your follower is. Should you turn green the town will have a sure scum locked. Should you turn red, someone will bail me out before the 2nd lynch. Okay, bby, let's take a closer look at this one. I've already got some preliminary townreads on Trfel (tone, and now more or less echoing my thoughts) and JJB (spreadsheet pans out) which you'd see in my filter. Who has been scumreading you that would make my starting a lynch on you "probing the scene"? You explicitly said you'd have reads once people started reacting to your model. If all you ever intended to do was vote the first person who voted for you, that's a pretty terrible way to generate reads Yes, you're my follower. I highly doubt we're playing your little game, and if you think that by scumreading me you can generate a sense of fearlessness so they don't lynch you next (or first) that's cute and naïve xP Talk to me about someone other than me. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
K srsly I'm missing my League match. I'll be back. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Given the responses currently in the thread, it seems like the answer is that we will not use it? | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote: Trfel: It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it. Can you please explain to me how it is good for town if one player is playing by the Bridges method and all of the other players are playing as they normally would? That just seems like the players would be forced to ignore the player following the Bridges method, while that player avoids partaking in the discussion and gameplay. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
I am not an oracle, I will give out reads as soon as I come to their conclusion. In turn I must ask for some analysis from other people as well. Despite what you are saying my accusation of rsoultin was not an OMGUS. Within the first paragraph of rsoultin's section I describe why his or her play is scummy, which does not mention his or her vote. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote: Trfel: It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it. Didn't you say that you'd just made this method up? And again, you're focusing on the model and not what I'm asking you for. @Trfel - I am not in favor of Bridges. Clearly. Even if Hier would be the next "auto-lynch" and I'd laugh my ass off if he flips scum, caught in his own mechanism | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
As as I said, if you have the slightest town read on me, support the model. This will entice others to join. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:56 Hier wrote: The Shining: I am not an oracle, I will give out reads as soon as I come to their conclusion. In turn I must ask for some analysis from other people as well. Despite what you are saying my accusation of rsoultin was not an OMGUS. Within the first paragraph of rsoultin's section I describe why his or her play is scummy, which does not mention his or her vote. Do you have a response to my rebuttal, or do you just intend to ignore it? ^^ | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 16 2015 07:58 Hier wrote: Trfel: As as I said, if you have the slightest town read on me, support the model. This will entice others to join. My read on you and my support (or lack thereof) for the Bridges model are completely unrelated. I have stated why I don't think that the Bridges model is a good idea, and while I will take another look at it and your response, I don't think that you have said anything that changes my opinion. If you can't convince anyone else to follow your model, I would expect you to not follow it for this game (regardless of whether or not you still think it is a good method). Unless of course you can explain how it is good for town if one player follows the Bridges method and no one else does. If we don't use your method in this game, I'm sure you can discuss it after the game and potentially use it in a future game. That doesn't mean that it will never see use. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
Unfortunately, you did not give me much to work with. Your response can be summarized as "Your post is bad, Hier." Anyway, I'll be back in a few hours. | ||
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