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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Your point about Toad's activity is totally wrong. Do some research in the database if you lke.
Personally I meant that I didn't believe that Toad believed in his own case, as in it was fake. Dunno about Palmerston.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 21 2014 09:51 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 09:27 marvellosity wrote:
Where did I change my read on you Smurf? It's been pretty consistent. Further it's nothing to do with not reading properly - I said it was kinda odd and it was kinda odd, but I didn't make anything of it. For obvious reasons I don't think or talk about stuff that I don't make much of.
Is everyone stupid or something? I presumed you found it odd in a scummish fashion given Oats brought it up as a thing he thought I was scummy for. As you agreed with him on it being odd, I figured you found me questionable/scummy for it as a result.
I found it odd in an odd fashion. That's why I said it was odd. The "but I don't know how much to make of it though" means I didn't attach much alignment-indicative to it. I would have hoped this was obvious.
I need to stop assuming people understand posts (not just mine, everyone's :/)
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did rayn really call me mafia and then run away?
What terribly poor form.
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palmar also flaking out tonight
so we're really just railroading toad?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
we're only halfway through the day prplhz. A bunch of stuff will happen tomorrow. Maybe we still lynch Toad, yes. Maybe we don't. Who knows? Find out right here, same bat-time, same bat-channel!
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On February 21 2014 09:58 marvellosity wrote:
did rayn really call me mafia and then run away?
What terribly poor form.
I think he was waiting on suki to say something about it... not sure exactly what his goal was but I think it has something to do with her and not just you. She was just there though so I'm not sure why she disappeared right as he started doing that.
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Why would his vote on marv specifically have to do with me Balla and not anyone else?
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Pg 37-39
On February 21 2014 06:22 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 02:37 Balla24 wrote:This is weird, considering the two games we (suki and I) just played with Koshi were a towngame and a scumgame. His towngame entry more closely resembles this game (randomly townreading, randomly calling people bad and sheeping) whereas his scumgame he completely avoided that. It's just a complete no-consideration of what she just played with besides "I know koshi hates rolling scum". Beyond this I know she would feel like actually looking at his meta and seeing it because she started to become really good at that last game. For what I am talking about, a few quotes that resemble this game from the recent towngame i'm referencing: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Koshi is indeed town so I am going to beleive Balla his theory.
Balla let's get a town circle going. On February 07 2014 07:39 Koshi wrote:
I agree tbh. It felt awkward
##vote jaybrundage On February 07 2014 08:02 Koshi wrote:
Balla, let's give jayb a break for a sec.
What do you think about Jonny? Why is he gone? He wanted to talk, but there is nothing from him atm. I disagree. I think Koshi's townreads were a lot less random last game. I don't see him randomly calling people bad this game. And he lead the lynch on Jonny so I don't know what you're talking about sheeping. The reason I'm leaning town on Koshi right now is because of this: Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote:On February 20 2014 23:08 Palmar wrote:
I really like prplhz's point about koshi, don't you marv? doesn't it make you all warm inside? no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia. When I read this I thought, Koshi is playing quite freely right now. It makes sense to view his careless townreads and active sheeping as a free townie than a scum trying to appear free.
I'm curious why you thought Koshi looked scummy for it the first time. I know my own reason and I'm curious if they coincide.
On February 21 2014 06:39 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 06:31 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 13:22 Balla24 wrote:On February 20 2014 08:42 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 08:40 prplhz wrote:On February 20 2014 08:36 Balla24 wrote:On February 20 2014 08:33 prplhz wrote:
claiming Vanilli Townie What's the benefit of claiming green? I've seen it in a lot of old games and i've always been curious. it's because that while townies mostly ignore it, it turns out that there's like a 90% chance that the first guy who asks why someone else is claiming green is scum that's you it's called the kenpachi strategy and it's fool proof First scumread of the day too! The Kenpachi method only works if the person questioning it actually tries to paint the original poster as scum. Balla asked it in a curious way rather than look for an opening. Why is the fact that he misused said method scummy? Why did your 1st scumread get no pressure after this even though there was plenty said and he even did a few things. Also why is me being curious->townie? That doesn't really make sense considering if it's genuine curiousness why wouldn't I ask the same question as scum? Because scum wants to call people that aren't scum scum. I've used the same method myself. Making something out of nothing is what scum have to do, whereas town has little motivation for it. As for why he got no pressure; it's because I found Palmar more interesting by the time I got back, so I pursued that instead. I also came around on Prplhz simply for the amount of attention he was drawing to himself, which I find atypical of his scum game, though that's based on a small sample. What about me being curious -> townie? You gave an easy townread for me just asking a simple question.
Town wants to know why someone does something. Scum wants to call someone scum. You went for the former approach rather than seize an easy opportunity to call someone scum over it.
On February 21 2014 06:48 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 06:41 Balla24 wrote:On February 21 2014 06:36 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 06:25 Balla24 wrote:
What suki? Isn't what marv said basically the same thing as I said, I gave specifics of what I was referring to but it's essentially the same point. Can you spell it out for me cuz I don't know what you're talking about here. -_-; Basically my whole point with that post was that Koshi would most likely do all that stuff YOU were pointing that you thought was scummy out as town rather than as scum. Marv is saying the same thing. Yet you're trying to say you disagree with me but you agree with marv. Here's what I said Show nested quote +
I think he is scummy because he is not analyzing people, not pressuring people and generally just calling people scum or town randomly and making it known he's going to be sheeping.
The fact that he's not analyzing and not pressuring people I still think is true. Calling people scum or town randomly and saying he's going to sheep, I now think is more townie on koshi, so my read here changed. I see now that you were saying the same thing where I said 'I disagree', but I don't think this game resembles last game the way you're making it out to be. But my case was shit so the end result is I agree with you and marv that Koshi looks townie for his play thus far.
You still think he's not analyzing and pressuring people, but you think he looks townie for his play? Can you explain this to me?
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On February 21 2014 10:05 suki wrote:
Why would his vote on marv specifically have to do with me Balla and not anyone else?
He's specifically pinging both you and marv as scum together. What set him off was you and marv's interaction about koshi/fluffypuppy, which means there is probably some associative reasoning within there as well.
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On February 21 2014 10:07 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 10:05 suki wrote:
Why would his vote on marv specifically have to do with me Balla and not anyone else? He's specifically pinging both you and marv as scum together. What set him off was you and marv's interaction about koshi/fluffypuppy, which means there is probably some associative reasoning within there as well.
I see... Why should I care that rayn is calling me and marv out as scum when he doesn't provide any reasons at all? It's just noise.
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On February 21 2014 10:09 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 10:07 Balla24 wrote:On February 21 2014 10:05 suki wrote:
Why would his vote on marv specifically have to do with me Balla and not anyone else? He's specifically pinging both you and marv as scum together. What set him off was you and marv's interaction about koshi/fluffypuppy, which means there is probably some associative reasoning within there as well. I see... Why should I care that rayn is calling me and marv out as scum when he doesn't provide any reasons at all? It's just noise.
You shouldn't. What you should do is try to see what he's seeing or try to figure out what he's doing. What do you think he sees in regards to marv? What do you think his goal was?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Usually when rayn calls me mafia he is mafia (say ##, Vengeful). Not sure that's the case here though, he might just be deranged.
At the very least it's interesting or I care about it, dunno why you wouldn't suki. Unless you're that sure he's town that you don't have to care about it...
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pg 40-present
I have no idea how to read Kush. Pls help. He never explains any of his reads as either alignment so I'm at a loss.
I'm feeling town on Balla right now. He's pressuring people for his own reasons rather than sheeping town sentiment. When Suki put words in his mouth, he corrected her in a way that makes me feel he's confident in why he believes the things he believes.
On February 21 2014 08:41 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 08:40 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Pg 25-27 On February 20 2014 22:51 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:35 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:31 Palmar wrote:
Toad who is scum and why is it you? I just got back in here finished reading... give me some time but it's actually up in there if you consider the fact that it's a write-up while reading and things changing a little On February 20 2014 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:29 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 14:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Toad how do these two comments go together? They go together as "#1 didn't cross my mind at that time because I have no idea how someone could come up with it, so I didn't take it into consideration before you mentioned it. Once you did mention it I figured it's possible" wait wait wait. what? "why didn't you think it's blue? - I have no idea what blue is, so I thought it might be green or yellow and thought that's weird, once you explained what blue is I realized it might be blue" So you are saying you didn't know how i came up with what i did after i said in thread why i came up with it. Explain to me where in your opinion i explain why i came up with what i did. In other words, what happened between the posts of your i quoted? no I'm saying I didn't have the same misunderstanding you had about the phrasing, therefore what you innitially thought didn't cross my mind and wasn't part of my theories what you might be doing with that plan of yours. Once you cleared up that you thought those votes would add up I realized it might make sense given that misunderstanding. I just never had that misunderstanding to begin with which is the reason I couldn't make sense of it. My problem is this. And now, please answer this properly and in detail: You make a post which says this: On February 20 2014 10:40 Toadesstern wrote:
@rayn: Can't be #1 because I have no idea how someone could have come to that conclusion based on the phrasing from our lovevly host. Then there is something that happens between here because you then say this: On February 20 2014 11:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Your explanation is possible, that's the sad thing here. Now what is that something that happens between these posts? Why do you change your mind and what's the particular post that makes you change your mind? You asked me about my reasoning earlier on. The first part is talking about my stance on you and how I got to that stance from my PoV before you did this post: + Show Spoiler +On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So here we go (marv i would have expected a bit more from you, i am sad):
There are three possibilities about my motives and here they are:
1) I am town and this is my thought process; I misunderstood the setup as i have already explained and thought the votes from previous days are added to the current days votes. That's why i made my plan in the first place. Now this would have been the most pro-town plan because i would have later on brought up the fact that we should treat this as a majority lynch and at the end of the day people who are not in the majority wagon put their votes on themselves. In that way we would have eliminated any cons for the town in setup we possibly can, which is pretty much everything other than the randomness which we can't eliminate.
However, that was not the case. Now, i still stand behind my "if you "unvote", vote yourself" plan because of this. If we do not push this policy it leads to possibly stupid and irrelevant questions like "you don't think this dude is scum anymore, why is your vote still on him?". We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at.
2) I did the same pro-town thing as mafia.
3) I just made all this up and and i was just saying shit for no reason at the start of the game.
Now here is my question, especially to prplhz, Toad, Palmar and suki;
Why did you not try to see what i was/am trying to do and how that would make me whatever alignment. What you did is you took some posts from me and painted them scummy without no thinking behind it. I want to know why.
If what i was doing was (1), then i am town.
If what i was doing is (2), you can't tell my alignment.
If what i was doing is (3), then you are saying i am some random noob which this post already proves i am not because i would have came up with a decent explanation on the fly.
So again, why am i mafia? Especially prplhz and Toad?The second part you're quoting is explaining how I realized that your explanation (the above post) makes sense if we take the misunderstanding as a given, which I did not consider before you cleared it up simply because I did not have that same misunderstanding. Toad's explanation regarding the Rayn plan has left me with more question marks than anything. His initial comment doesn't specify anything about how it's about his reads without the explanation, especially since he referred to the comment as "can't be #1" which indicates he read the actual arguments, yet it's supposedly about his explanation as to why he thought Rayn was scum. It feels to me like a reason he thought of after the events. Not going to push it as per marv's proposal. On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote:On February 20 2014 23:08 Palmar wrote:
I really like prplhz's point about koshi, don't you marv? doesn't it make you all warm inside? no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia. Don't you think Koshi would know how you're likely to respond to this? It's fairly clear to anyone reading games that carelessness is seen as town. With someone as forthcoming with their thoughts as Koshi usually is, I don't find it unlikely at all. It's an easy way to look town without putting much effort in the game, and Koshi abhors playing scum. On February 21 2014 08:14 suki wrote:
CuteFluffyPuppy, why do you think this 'bravado' line of action is more likely to come from scum Koshi than town Koshi?
What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts? Because Koshi does not like playing scum. The way he's playing is the laziest way to still get read as town. I think a town Koshi would take the opportunity to do a more thorough read and get a good read on some players. He hasn't really tried. Koshi's objective is to get read as town with the least amount of effort. It's extremely difficult to look "naturally" careless. I've played more scumgames than anyone else on TL Mafia and I have an exceptional record and I can't really do it.
You have different standards though. For a player like Kush, it'll be easy to look naturally careless. Everything is always relative.
On February 21 2014 08:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay this answer is scum.
marv is mafia.
##unvote
#vote: marvellosoty
OH GOD THIS IS SO GOOD!
Why would you go afk after this? Rayn please.
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On February 21 2014 10:07 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Pg 37-39 Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 06:22 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 02:37 Balla24 wrote:This is weird, considering the two games we (suki and I) just played with Koshi were a towngame and a scumgame. His towngame entry more closely resembles this game (randomly townreading, randomly calling people bad and sheeping) whereas his scumgame he completely avoided that. It's just a complete no-consideration of what she just played with besides "I know koshi hates rolling scum". Beyond this I know she would feel like actually looking at his meta and seeing it because she started to become really good at that last game. For what I am talking about, a few quotes that resemble this game from the recent towngame i'm referencing: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Koshi is indeed town so I am going to beleive Balla his theory.
Balla let's get a town circle going. On February 07 2014 07:39 Koshi wrote:
I agree tbh. It felt awkward
##vote jaybrundage On February 07 2014 08:02 Koshi wrote:
Balla, let's give jayb a break for a sec.
What do you think about Jonny? Why is he gone? He wanted to talk, but there is nothing from him atm. I disagree. I think Koshi's townreads were a lot less random last game. I don't see him randomly calling people bad this game. And he lead the lynch on Jonny so I don't know what you're talking about sheeping. The reason I'm leaning town on Koshi right now is because of this: On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote:On February 20 2014 23:08 Palmar wrote:
I really like prplhz's point about koshi, don't you marv? doesn't it make you all warm inside? no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia. When I read this I thought, Koshi is playing quite freely right now. It makes sense to view his careless townreads and active sheeping as a free townie than a scum trying to appear free. I'm curious why you thought Koshi looked scummy for it the first time. I know my own reason and I'm curious if they coincide. Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 06:39 Balla24 wrote:On February 21 2014 06:31 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 13:22 Balla24 wrote:On February 20 2014 08:42 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 08:40 prplhz wrote:On February 20 2014 08:36 Balla24 wrote:On February 20 2014 08:33 prplhz wrote:
claiming Vanilli Townie What's the benefit of claiming green? I've seen it in a lot of old games and i've always been curious. it's because that while townies mostly ignore it, it turns out that there's like a 90% chance that the first guy who asks why someone else is claiming green is scum that's you it's called the kenpachi strategy and it's fool proof First scumread of the day too! The Kenpachi method only works if the person questioning it actually tries to paint the original poster as scum. Balla asked it in a curious way rather than look for an opening. Why is the fact that he misused said method scummy? Why did your 1st scumread get no pressure after this even though there was plenty said and he even did a few things. Also why is me being curious->townie? That doesn't really make sense considering if it's genuine curiousness why wouldn't I ask the same question as scum? Because scum wants to call people that aren't scum scum. I've used the same method myself. Making something out of nothing is what scum have to do, whereas town has little motivation for it. As for why he got no pressure; it's because I found Palmar more interesting by the time I got back, so I pursued that instead. I also came around on Prplhz simply for the amount of attention he was drawing to himself, which I find atypical of his scum game, though that's based on a small sample. What about me being curious -> townie? You gave an easy townread for me just asking a simple question. Town wants to know why someone does something. Scum wants to call someone scum. You went for the former approach rather than seize an easy opportunity to call someone scum over it. Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 06:48 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 06:41 Balla24 wrote:On February 21 2014 06:36 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 06:25 Balla24 wrote:
What suki? Isn't what marv said basically the same thing as I said, I gave specifics of what I was referring to but it's essentially the same point. Can you spell it out for me cuz I don't know what you're talking about here. -_-; Basically my whole point with that post was that Koshi would most likely do all that stuff YOU were pointing that you thought was scummy out as town rather than as scum. Marv is saying the same thing. Yet you're trying to say you disagree with me but you agree with marv. Here's what I said
I think he is scummy because he is not analyzing people, not pressuring people and generally just calling people scum or town randomly and making it known he's going to be sheeping.
The fact that he's not analyzing and not pressuring people I still think is true. Calling people scum or town randomly and saying he's going to sheep, I now think is more townie on koshi, so my read here changed. I see now that you were saying the same thing where I said 'I disagree', but I don't think this game resembles last game the way you're making it out to be. But my case was shit so the end result is I agree with you and marv that Koshi looks townie for his play thus far. You still think he's not analyzing and pressuring people, but you think he looks townie for his play? Can you explain this to me?
My first case on Koshi which everyone thought was bad is pretty much the reason why I got scum vibes on Koshi. I'm used to Koshi pressuring people and hunting scum and this game he's just flopping around sheeping the strong players.
And yes, Koshi is not analyzing or pressuring people. However, I also think there's some truth to the idea that his playstyle is very free this game and that that freeness is townie. I am in no rush to lynch Koshi and am currently just observing how he continues the game.
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Also I'm never doing this again. That was way too much effort.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 21 2014 10:13 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:
You have different standards though. For a player like Kush, it'll be easy to look naturally careless. Everything is always relative.
Koshi's play is *extremely* stylistic, so i think what i said holds pretty true for him.
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Exactly marv, it's very interesting. Regardless of what alignment rayn is he ALWAYS has a reason to do something. If he votes someone it's likely that he DOES see something.
This is the second time he's done a "does anybody else see what I see?" type of play.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 21 2014 10:18 Balla24 wrote:
Exactly marv, it's very interesting. Regardless of what alignment rayn is he ALWAYS has a reason to do something. If he votes someone it's likely that he DOES see something.
This is the second time he's done a "does anybody else see what I see?" type of play.
That's not how I'd term it. I think he thinks it's self-evident. I read it again and apparently because I said it's hard to fake looking careless as mafia then I'm mafia? No idea really.
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On February 21 2014 10:11 marvellosity wrote:
Usually when rayn calls me mafia he is mafia (say ##, Vengeful). Not sure that's the case here though, he might just be deranged.
At the very least it's interesting or I care about it, dunno why you wouldn't suki. Unless you're that sure he's town that you don't have to care about it...
Rayn is a tough one for me. I don't know why he does half the things he does. I think his haphazard style of play feels like the town game I played with him so I do think he is town.
People have already asked him what his vote on you is for so I don't see the need to ask it myself, and really that's the only question I would ask regarding that vote.
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EPT
