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On February 21 2014 07:25 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 07:22 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Toad
This wagon is terrible, I don't even know what idiot started it. Can you answer suki here about why you did vote kush in the first place? Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 06:05 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 03:15 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Vivax420 @Palmar why did you vote kush right after marv said kush looks scummy? Earlier in the game you thought kush looked town and provided a lot of quotes: On February 20 2014 21:59 Palmar wrote:On February 20 2014 21:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar why do you think kush is town? I like some points he's made. On February 20 2014 09:13 VIVAX420 wrote:On February 20 2014 09:09 Toadesstern wrote:
Why are you actively looking for a way to pseudo-unvote? I don't even see a reason why someone should care about that. wait so you are implying that scum is going to be afraid of the default votes enough to come up with a plan like that? On February 20 2014 10:36 VIVAX420 wrote:
toad you are backtracking so hard. it's not serious, yet you gave shitty but serious reasons for it. On February 20 2014 12:06 VIVAX420 wrote:
why vote prpl? just because of the contradiction in that post you quoted? it wasn't so much a contradiction as it was a realization that marv had a good point. On February 20 2014 12:09 VIVAX420 wrote:
rayn nvm that garbage you are pushing. I think you are misunderstanding the intentions behind that post. It's like "hmmm this was my argument, but then again marv has a good point"
prpl seems really pro town so far.
~~
What do you think of toad? What changed?
nah
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On February 21 2014 08:17 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 08:14 suki wrote:
CuteFluffyPuppy, why do you think this 'bravado' line of action is more likely to come from scum Koshi than town Koshi?
What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts? I'm curious what your answer to the 2nd question would have been when you made your case on him.
My case, which is to say he wasn't pressuring people, wasn't giving reads, and was just throwing around reads and sheeping.
All of these are things that scum do, to avoid contributing to town. It makes it easier as well if they don't have any hard reads that they will get called out on. Town on the other hand want to pressure, want to make reads, to figure out the game.
Who do you find scummy marv? Just toad?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important.
My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place.
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On February 21 2014 08:18 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 07:25 Balla24 wrote:On February 21 2014 07:22 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Toad
This wagon is terrible, I don't even know what idiot started it. Can you answer suki here about why you did vote kush in the first place? On February 21 2014 06:05 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 03:15 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Vivax420 @Palmar why did you vote kush right after marv said kush looks scummy? Earlier in the game you thought kush looked town and provided a lot of quotes: On February 20 2014 21:59 Palmar wrote:On February 20 2014 21:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar why do you think kush is town? I like some points he's made. On February 20 2014 09:13 VIVAX420 wrote:On February 20 2014 09:09 Toadesstern wrote:
Why are you actively looking for a way to pseudo-unvote? I don't even see a reason why someone should care about that. wait so you are implying that scum is going to be afraid of the default votes enough to come up with a plan like that? On February 20 2014 10:36 VIVAX420 wrote:
toad you are backtracking so hard. it's not serious, yet you gave shitty but serious reasons for it. On February 20 2014 12:06 VIVAX420 wrote:
why vote prpl? just because of the contradiction in that post you quoted? it wasn't so much a contradiction as it was a realization that marv had a good point. On February 20 2014 12:09 VIVAX420 wrote:
rayn nvm that garbage you are pushing. I think you are misunderstanding the intentions behind that post. It's like "hmmm this was my argument, but then again marv has a good point"
prpl seems really pro town so far.
~~
What do you think of toad? What changed? nah
I don't see any possible reason for you to withhold that reasoning. Regardless, if you think suki and I are scummy. Then why are you voting toad? What do you think of toad's case on me beyond "I don't believe it", why don't you believe it etc etc...
What about suki's case on me? and has your opinion of suki changed since you sheeped on rayn? She's posted plenty since then.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
also lol: "wasn't giving reads" -> "was just throwing around reads"
he was eating cake but also not eating cake. Curses!
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On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important.
My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place.
If you're saying I'm not giving reads and not analyzing . . . Well I am trying.
I want to hear your opinion on me because it seems you've been picking at my words for a while but not actually coming out and saying whether you think that makes me town or scum.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 21 2014 08:37 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important.
My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place. If you're saying I'm not giving reads and not analyzing . . . Well I am trying. I want to hear your opinion on me because it seems you've been picking at my words for a while but not actually coming out and saying whether you think that makes me town or scum.
That's not what I'm saying. I picked holes in your Koshi case and now you're picking effectively the same holes in what Mr Smurf said. Not that you're not giving reads or analysing or something, dunno how you even thought that? I thought your case made you quite suspicious but I don't have a firm opinion on you until I read your exchange with Balla again.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 21 2014 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Is marv scum too?
I have a 7 page filter halfway though day 1, statistically I have a roughly 100% chance to be town.
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Pg 25-27
On February 20 2014 22:51 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 22:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:35 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:31 Palmar wrote:
Toad who is scum and why is it you? I just got back in here finished reading... give me some time but it's actually up in there if you consider the fact that it's a write-up while reading and things changing a little On February 20 2014 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:29 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 14:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 10:40 Toadesstern wrote:
@rayn: Can't be #1 because I have no idea how someone could have come to that conclusion based on the phrasing from our lovevly host. On February 20 2014 11:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Your explanation is possible, that's the sad thing here. Toad how do these two comments go together? They go together as "#1 didn't cross my mind at that time because I have no idea how someone could come up with it, so I didn't take it into consideration before you mentioned it. Once you did mention it I figured it's possible" wait wait wait. what? "why didn't you think it's blue? - I have no idea what blue is, so I thought it might be green or yellow and thought that's weird, once you explained what blue is I realized it might be blue" So you are saying you didn't know how i came up with what i did after i said in thread why i came up with it. Explain to me where in your opinion i explain why i came up with what i did. In other words, what happened between the posts of your i quoted? no I'm saying I didn't have the same misunderstanding you had about the phrasing, therefore what you innitially thought didn't cross my mind and wasn't part of my theories what you might be doing with that plan of yours. Once you cleared up that you thought those votes would add up I realized it might make sense given that misunderstanding. I just never had that misunderstanding to begin with which is the reason I couldn't make sense of it. My problem is this. And now, please answer this properly and in detail: You make a post which says this: On February 20 2014 10:40 Toadesstern wrote:
@rayn: Can't be #1 because I have no idea how someone could have come to that conclusion based on the phrasing from our lovevly host. Then there is something that happens between here because you then say this: On February 20 2014 11:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Your explanation is possible, that's the sad thing here. Now what is that something that happens between these posts? Why do you change your mind and what's the particular post that makes you change your mind? You asked me about my reasoning earlier on. The first part is talking about my stance on you and how I got to that stance from my PoV before you did this post: + Show Spoiler +On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So here we go (marv i would have expected a bit more from you, i am sad):
There are three possibilities about my motives and here they are:
1) I am town and this is my thought process; I misunderstood the setup as i have already explained and thought the votes from previous days are added to the current days votes. That's why i made my plan in the first place. Now this would have been the most pro-town plan because i would have later on brought up the fact that we should treat this as a majority lynch and at the end of the day people who are not in the majority wagon put their votes on themselves. In that way we would have eliminated any cons for the town in setup we possibly can, which is pretty much everything other than the randomness which we can't eliminate.
However, that was not the case. Now, i still stand behind my "if you "unvote", vote yourself" plan because of this. If we do not push this policy it leads to possibly stupid and irrelevant questions like "you don't think this dude is scum anymore, why is your vote still on him?". We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at.
2) I did the same pro-town thing as mafia.
3) I just made all this up and and i was just saying shit for no reason at the start of the game.
Now here is my question, especially to prplhz, Toad, Palmar and suki;
Why did you not try to see what i was/am trying to do and how that would make me whatever alignment. What you did is you took some posts from me and painted them scummy without no thinking behind it. I want to know why.
If what i was doing was (1), then i am town.
If what i was doing is (2), you can't tell my alignment.
If what i was doing is (3), then you are saying i am some random noob which this post already proves i am not because i would have came up with a decent explanation on the fly.
So again, why am i mafia? Especially prplhz and Toad?The second part you're quoting is explaining how I realized that your explanation (the above post) makes sense if we take the misunderstanding as a given, which I did not consider before you cleared it up simply because I did not have that same misunderstanding.
Toad's explanation regarding the Rayn plan has left me with more question marks than anything. His initial comment doesn't specify anything about how it's about his reads without the explanation, especially since he referred to the comment as "can't be #1" which indicates he read the actual arguments, yet it's supposedly about his explanation as to why he thought Rayn was scum. It feels to me like a reason he thought of after the events. Not going to push it as per marv's proposal.
On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 23:08 Palmar wrote:
I really like prplhz's point about koshi, don't you marv? doesn't it make you all warm inside? no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia.
Don't you think Koshi would know how you're likely to respond to this? It's fairly clear to anyone reading games that carelessness is seen as town. With someone as forthcoming with their thoughts as Koshi usually is, I don't find it unlikely at all. It's an easy way to look town without putting much effort in the game, and Koshi abhors playing scum.
On February 21 2014 08:14 suki wrote:
CuteFluffyPuppy, why do you think this 'bravado' line of action is more likely to come from scum Koshi than town Koshi?
What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts?
Because Koshi does not like playing scum. The way he's playing is the laziest way to still get read as town. I think a town Koshi would take the opportunity to do a more thorough read and get a good read on some players. He hasn't really tried.
Koshi's objective is to get read as town with the least amount of effort.
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On February 21 2014 08:32 marvellosity wrote:
also lol: "wasn't giving reads" -> "was just throwing around reads"
he was eating cake but also not eating cake. Curses!
Wasn't giving meaningful reads. Throwing around useless junk that doesn't serve to move discussion in any direction.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 21 2014 08:40 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Pg 25-27 Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 22:51 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:35 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 22:31 Palmar wrote:
Toad who is scum and why is it you? I just got back in here finished reading... give me some time but it's actually up in there if you consider the fact that it's a write-up while reading and things changing a little On February 20 2014 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 22:29 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 14:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 10:40 Toadesstern wrote:
@rayn: Can't be #1 because I have no idea how someone could have come to that conclusion based on the phrasing from our lovevly host. On February 20 2014 11:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Your explanation is possible, that's the sad thing here. Toad how do these two comments go together? They go together as "#1 didn't cross my mind at that time because I have no idea how someone could come up with it, so I didn't take it into consideration before you mentioned it. Once you did mention it I figured it's possible" wait wait wait. what? "why didn't you think it's blue? - I have no idea what blue is, so I thought it might be green or yellow and thought that's weird, once you explained what blue is I realized it might be blue" So you are saying you didn't know how i came up with what i did after i said in thread why i came up with it. Explain to me where in your opinion i explain why i came up with what i did. In other words, what happened between the posts of your i quoted? no I'm saying I didn't have the same misunderstanding you had about the phrasing, therefore what you innitially thought didn't cross my mind and wasn't part of my theories what you might be doing with that plan of yours. Once you cleared up that you thought those votes would add up I realized it might make sense given that misunderstanding. I just never had that misunderstanding to begin with which is the reason I couldn't make sense of it. My problem is this. And now, please answer this properly and in detail: You make a post which says this: On February 20 2014 10:40 Toadesstern wrote:
@rayn: Can't be #1 because I have no idea how someone could have come to that conclusion based on the phrasing from our lovevly host. Then there is something that happens between here because you then say this: On February 20 2014 11:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Your explanation is possible, that's the sad thing here. Now what is that something that happens between these posts? Why do you change your mind and what's the particular post that makes you change your mind? You asked me about my reasoning earlier on. The first part is talking about my stance on you and how I got to that stance from my PoV before you did this post: + Show Spoiler +On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So here we go (marv i would have expected a bit more from you, i am sad):
There are three possibilities about my motives and here they are:
1) I am town and this is my thought process; I misunderstood the setup as i have already explained and thought the votes from previous days are added to the current days votes. That's why i made my plan in the first place. Now this would have been the most pro-town plan because i would have later on brought up the fact that we should treat this as a majority lynch and at the end of the day people who are not in the majority wagon put their votes on themselves. In that way we would have eliminated any cons for the town in setup we possibly can, which is pretty much everything other than the randomness which we can't eliminate.
However, that was not the case. Now, i still stand behind my "if you "unvote", vote yourself" plan because of this. If we do not push this policy it leads to possibly stupid and irrelevant questions like "you don't think this dude is scum anymore, why is your vote still on him?". We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at.
2) I did the same pro-town thing as mafia.
3) I just made all this up and and i was just saying shit for no reason at the start of the game.
Now here is my question, especially to prplhz, Toad, Palmar and suki;
Why did you not try to see what i was/am trying to do and how that would make me whatever alignment. What you did is you took some posts from me and painted them scummy without no thinking behind it. I want to know why.
If what i was doing was (1), then i am town.
If what i was doing is (2), you can't tell my alignment.
If what i was doing is (3), then you are saying i am some random noob which this post already proves i am not because i would have came up with a decent explanation on the fly.
So again, why am i mafia? Especially prplhz and Toad?The second part you're quoting is explaining how I realized that your explanation (the above post) makes sense if we take the misunderstanding as a given, which I did not consider before you cleared it up simply because I did not have that same misunderstanding. Toad's explanation regarding the Rayn plan has left me with more question marks than anything. His initial comment doesn't specify anything about how it's about his reads without the explanation, especially since he referred to the comment as "can't be #1" which indicates he read the actual arguments, yet it's supposedly about his explanation as to why he thought Rayn was scum. It feels to me like a reason he thought of after the events. Not going to push it as per marv's proposal. Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote:On February 20 2014 23:08 Palmar wrote:
I really like prplhz's point about koshi, don't you marv? doesn't it make you all warm inside? no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia. Don't you think Koshi would know how you're likely to respond to this? It's fairly clear to anyone reading games that carelessness is seen as town. With someone as forthcoming with their thoughts as Koshi usually is, I don't find it unlikely at all. It's an easy way to look town without putting much effort in the game, and Koshi abhors playing scum. Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 08:14 suki wrote:
CuteFluffyPuppy, why do you think this 'bravado' line of action is more likely to come from scum Koshi than town Koshi?
What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts? Because Koshi does not like playing scum. The way he's playing is the laziest way to still get read as town. I think a town Koshi would take the opportunity to do a more thorough read and get a good read on some players. He hasn't really tried. Koshi's objective is to get read as town with the least amount of effort.
It's extremely difficult to look "naturally" careless. I've played more scumgames than anyone else on TL Mafia and I have an exceptional record and I can't really do it.
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I thought this was about Koshi? WHAT??!?!!!
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On February 21 2014 08:39 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 08:37 suki wrote:On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important.
My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place. If you're saying I'm not giving reads and not analyzing . . . Well I am trying. I want to hear your opinion on me because it seems you've been picking at my words for a while but not actually coming out and saying whether you think that makes me town or scum. That's not what I'm saying. I picked holes in your Koshi case and now you're picking effectively the same holes in what Mr Smurf said. Not that you're not giving reads or analysing or something, dunno how you even thought that? I thought your case made you quite suspicious but I don't have a firm opinion on you until I read your exchange with Balla again.
I think you're town and I like your line of thinking marv. Yes, I am picking the same holes that you picked in mine. I think it's a valuable line of questioning.
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this talk about hole picking is making me uncomfortable
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Okay this answer is scum.
marv is mafia.
##unvote
#vote: marvellosoty
OH GOD THIS IS SO GOOD!
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then, lynch suki after. 2 scum down.
EASY!
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EPT
