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The above was @ marv
On July 03 2013 21:33 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 21:20 Vivax wrote:
Lazer, can you tell me what you find scummy about those people outside or fuba or point me to previous arguments you still find strong? Well, Oats and stutters I haven't really looked much into yet. It's more that their claim doesn't really prove them to be town in any shape or form IMO. Solstice has been very lurky and didn't care for shit about the lynch D1 makes me suspicious of him. My initial impression from stutters was that he didn't really have any thoughts of his own but just sheeped whatever was going on at the moment but actually, reading through again, stutters is probably not scum if WoS is because WoS has been up his ass literally all game. And WoS is more likely scum than him I'd say.
What makes you think that WoS is scum?
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Say hi to the list with the order of claims
• Lt. Aldo Raine - American Veteran Vivax 7
• Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper Fuba 12
• Sgt. Donny Donowitz - American Vigi WoS 11
• Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz - German Miller Marv 1
• Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki - American Parity C Lazer 3
• Pfc. Smithson Utivich - American Townie Rayn Dead- 6
• Pfc. Omar Ulmer - American Townie Stutters 9
• Pierre LaPadite - French Townie S0lstice 8
• Pfc. Hirschberg - American Townie Vayne Dead - 4
• Pfc. Andy Kagan - American Townie Oats 10
• Pfc. Michael Zimmerman - American Tow JJ 2
• Shoshanna - French Vengeful Townie Gumshoe 5
As we see, WoS HAD to claim Vigi, there was literally no other role he could have taken, and given that the order of this mass claim was shit cause we didn't let fuba and WoS claim first, it gave him an out.
This is how I currently think the game looks like:
Scum has 3 goons.
No cop
No miller
No vigi.
Just me, the veteran, and a vengeful townie.
Knowing that scum has no Hitler, marv decided that a cop was unlikely, and as I pointed out multiple times, miller claim isn't as risky as he's trying to put it. He fakeclaimed in a game facing odds of 40 % to be counterclaimed, hence we know he doesn't mind risks as scum like he tries to tell us in this game.
Lazer claimed cop 4 minutes before the presumed deadline. He was afraid of getting counterclaimed and hence did it only when there was little time left, so any counterclaim couldn't have the time to processed properly. Scum would also have known at this point that there was no miller, hence some more odds in their favour.
WoS claimed the only thing left, leaving us with all blues in the game, which is highly improbable. I feel gumshoe's claim was legit cause of timing (he didn't fear getting cc'd) and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general, except I found him odd at one point for proposing a scum team theory I didn't share and found unlikely.
This is obviously something that looks almost paranoid, 3 scum with 3 fakeclaims. But I'm confident that lynching marv ALL of their play will fall apart, cause I'm confident that he won't flip miller, making Lazer's cop claim quite more suspicious, and WoS claim is suspicious in itself. The guy claims to have shot marv, I have yet to see him reflecting that intention during N1.
There is absolutely NOTHING in his filter that points towards him wanting to shoot marv.
Just follow me, lynch marv, and win the game. I already delayed scum victory by being so supertownie that scum shot me. You owe me this much.
These guys aren't afraid of bussing each other, they know the massclaim puts them into a bad spot, and only looking at their pla
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and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general
Cause I didn't feel he was scummy in general. A reformulation gone bad ^^
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Check out marv.
You care more than you try to make it look like if you keep trying to disrupt me.
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Cool, I'll repost my post with ordered claims, along with all other things that point towards marv being scum.
Read it please. The whole game depends on lynching one of those guys (Lazer,WoS, marv). And marv should be the first cause their shit falls apart then.
+ Show Spoiler +
Say hi to the list with the order of claims
• Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz - German Miller Marv 1
• Pfc. Michael Zimmerman - American Tow JJ 2
• Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki - American Parity C Lazer 3
• Pfc. Hirschberg - American Townie Vayne Dead - 4
• Shoshanna - French Vengeful Townie Gumshoe 5
• Pfc. Smithson Utivich - American Townie Rayn Dead- 6
• Lt. Aldo Raine - American Veteran Vivax 7
• Pierre LaPadite - French Townie S0lstice 8
• Pfc. Omar Ulmer - American Townie Stutters 9
• Pfc. Andy Kagan - American Townie Oats 10
• Sgt. Donny Donowitz - American Vigi WoS 11
• Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper Fuba 12
As we see, WoS HAD to claim Vigi, there was literally no other role he could have taken, and given that the order of this mass claim was shit cause we didn't let fuba and WoS claim first, it gave him an out.
This is how I currently think the game looks like:
Scum has 3 goons.
No cop
No miller
No vigi.
Just me, the veteran, and a vengeful townie.
Knowing that scum has no Hitler, marv decided that a cop was unlikely, and as I pointed out multiple times, miller claim isn't as risky as he's trying to put it. He fakeclaimed in a game facing odds of 40 % to be counterclaimed, hence we know he doesn't mind risks as scum like he tries to tell us in this game.
Lazer claimed cop 4 minutes before the presumed deadline. He was afraid of getting counterclaimed and hence did it only when there was little time left, so any counterclaim couldn't have the time to processed properly. Scum would also have known at this point that there was no miller, hence some more odds in their favour.
WoS claimed the only thing left, leaving us with all blues in the game, which is highly improbable. I feel gumshoe's claim was legit cause of timing (he didn't fear getting cc'd) and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general, except I found him odd at one point for proposing a scum team theory I didn't share and found unlikely.
This is obviously something that looks almost paranoid, 3 scum with 3 fakeclaims. But I'm confident that lynching marv ALL of their play will fall apart, cause I'm confident that he won't flip miller, making Lazer's cop claim quite more suspicious, and WoS claim is suspicious in itself. The guy claims to have shot marv, I have yet to see him reflecting that intention during N1.
There is absolutely NOTHING in his filter that points towards him wanting to shoot marv.
Just follow me, lynch marv, and win the game. I already delayed scum victory by being so supertownie that scum shot me. You owe me this much.
These guys aren't afraid of bussing each other, they know the massclaim puts them into a bad spot, and only looking at their play.
Here are Rayn's reasons to remind you, the guy who got shot before the claimed cop and the claimed miller who is usually a good townie.
On July 03 2013 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Look at my filter for evidence: marv is mafia. - says he doubts Lazer's claim. Makes no sense as miller when everyone has posted after that. - says later on he now thinks Lazer is legit cop because of no cc, but in the same post says he would not cc Lazer to find out his scumbuddies. Earlier on in N1 when everyone had posted after Lazer's claim did not trust him. - his D1 voting behaviour i pointed out - sceptical towards massclaim, which would be good for town. USE MY PLAN ON D2 START!- has not questioned Vivax nor answered me about this: Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:marv, why are you not pushing Vivax? He has called me out for what i just said in my last post, he has mistakenly compared this game to Carnival and LXI and said the situations are similar. I was top lynch candidate at some point on D1 for that shit. Here you agree with my early game miller-analysis, yet your "i'm back post" is this: On July 02 2013 04:15 marvellosity wrote:
On page 15 and getting seriously bored with this miller shit Really, REALLY, REALLY???How much i have to find for you guys to lynch marv? Lazer is mafia.- His whole D1 besides a couple of his first comments, particularly his stance of Vayne and what he said about it on N1, rofl - HC-defends marv for no reason (him being legit cop does not make marv town) - really shitty answers to me, for example straight out lying about him knowing the deadline was +1 hours - completely disappearing when i try to set up a convo between him/WoS, as he had nothing more to argue - pointing out "hilarious stuff", which i could not know as i assumed scum had 1 KP. OF COURSE THAT FUCKING CHANGES MY POINT OF VIEW! Fuba is mafia.- Things from D1 that many people have pointed out. - Sudden change of reads in "marv/Lazer = both scum", see his 2 posts about it - general absence and his "hit-and-run" posts all over the game.
Everyone else is more or less town to me, except WoS/Solstice who are null. Rest in order (town -> less town): JarJar(claim+timing,otherwise kinda useless), gumshoe(claim,step up more please), Vivax(towniest motherfucker in thread who has not claimed!!!!), Stutters, Oats.
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On July 03 2013 07:30 Vivax wrote:Well yeah like I said, your argument is that there is no one counterclaiming Lazer yet, or within the hour after his claim. Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 05:37 marvellosity wrote:On July 02 2013 05:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What do you marv think about Lazer having Vayne as a scumread for all the game and not pushing him at any point until 30min before the lynch? That does not raise red flags at all? haven't got time to work all that out, i'm just looking at Vayne's filter and it's pathetic. Lazer's filter looks like he's trying. I'd like to talk more about your reasons . I mean, you read through the whole game as far as I saw, but you didn't work all that out, yet Rayne presented you with the reasons for having Lazer as scumread, and you skip over the reasons and judge two filters by the amount of trying.
I realize this is accusatory, but I don't see how someone points you to something being scummy and you say you didn't have time to work it out, but one guy posts more than the other and hence is less scummy. Even afterwards you had plenty of time to comment on the Lazer stuff.
Go look at the time of these posts to get into the context please, this was at the time when me and Rayne were gunning marv, before we got shot.
On July 03 2013 07:50 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 07:48 marvellosity wrote:On July 03 2013 07:46 Vivax wrote:
I endorse a shot on marv or Lazer as well.
Hardly seen town marv give a townread based on tryharding and skip on everything else presented. It was fucking deadline man, you don't skip on reading a guy and brush him off cause he's tryharding. That reflects lack of caring.
Lazer/Marv interactions have bad taste to them, too.
Also cause it's funny when marv gets mad. No, it reflects using my time wisely. Also it's funny cause you're a dick and also possibly scum. The list lengthens  Wtf dude. You were still in time to talk about Lazer. We are talking about Lazer all the fucking time. You defend his claim. You say we put words in your mouth when we say you think he's town. You don't think "Oh well these guys might actually be right I'll go read him and give my opinion on him". You become all pissy and defensive, and still show zero doubt about and information gathering on lazer, which is scummy regardless of his alignment.
On July 03 2013 07:52 Vivax wrote:
Like, all you're doing is like from a viewpoint where you're sure that you're right about what you say.
But you don't even have a definite opinion on Lazer you could be right about.
On July 03 2013 08:40 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +
not necesarily my order of scumminess (though close) but this is the order I think people should claim. Use it if I die:
Put marv before gumshoe. The guy isn't pushing any reads. Only defending himself, talking about how his claim would be too risky, and hating. He said himself he fakeclaimed miller in another game. He says the claim isn't risky although he can still outplay the other miller if it comes to it. Look at how he pushes the wagons D1. He was pretty much throwing shit everywhere (WoS, Vayne, fuba) except on Lazer and see what sticks. He said Lazer looked like he was trying, but ignored Rayn saying that Lazer didn't push his scumread Vayne all day long. He just finished reading the thread and showed zero doubt. Even cockiness has a limit.
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On July 03 2013 22:19 Lazermonkey wrote:
Vivax, I don't hear a single argument for me being scum that I haven't answered yet. Do you not agree with my answers? If so, then show why.
Well, I remember exactly how you skipped on my arguments to push for Vayne together with marv @ deadline:
On July 02 2013 03:39 Vivax wrote:Here's a summary of Lazer's play from my perspective: First of all, I noticed that Lazer called his scumread Vayne a lynch bait, WoS called him out for it. Lazer said he can't be scum for that cause scum wouldn't call their targets lynch bait. That kinda gives me the impression that the two can't be scum together cause Lazer's answer was pretty defensive, but it's not to be taken for granted: + Show Spoiler +
I don't get how the sentences are contradicting each other : /. And its not really that much of WIFOM. If I am scum, couldn't I just say "hey, these posts by Vayne probably means he is scum" and then just push for his lynch, not giving a fuck? Instead I said "hey, these posts by Vayne are suspcious, but if he usually plays like this then its not that big of a scum tell".
And no, I'm obviously not giving him auto-town status just because he is a lynch bait, that would be retarded Lol. But there is a reason lynch baits are lynch baits. They get lynched.
Lazer starts with having stutters as scumread. Goes on to call Vayne scummy. Proceeds to write some stuff up against Oats (and gets mad when attacked) "Checks this JarJar dude" after gumshoe posts his case. Makes a push out of it. Until this point, he doesn't write more about his former scumreads. Afterwards claims he still has Vayne as scumread and would lynch him too. Says I give him bad vibes for tunnelling. His read on WoS goes from slightly scummy to neutral. He didn't communicate his thought process on the guy, he only talks about him when asked. No pushes except for JarJar. No questioning his scumreads.
Quote collection, chronologic:
Show nested quote +Some good points raised by Ray regarding stutters! Let's get this wagon rolling, shall we?
##Unvote
##Vote: Stutters695
Show nested quote +Like I already said, I think your points against stutters are good. The fact that he is very fast to doubt Marv's claim yet does not take a clear stance, the fact that he said that his french is rusty instead of just translating the sentence and the fact that he asks why his own posts are bad and then goes on to afk is rubbing me in a bad way.
WoS isn't contributing in anyway, which is bad. His posting is careless though and its bad no matter what alignment he is basically. Mildly suspicious. Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 19:42 Lazermonkey wrote:Is Vayne a lynch bait or something? Makes a post about why I am scummy for several bad reasons. Then what? nothing... He makes 4 addiotional posts but doesn't follow up at all. Thhese posts are just general BS about why we shouldn't policy lynch him and that gumshoe is town because On June 30 2013 14:10 VayneAuthority wrote:Btw I find gumshoe to be town due to him looking at people in terms of losses and weighing our options instead of just jumping on something. He looks to be like some one who is turning the cogs but is unsure of himself. There's my reasoning now Pretty suspicious of him calling me out for not wanting to scum hunt, yet he doesn't follow up his own suspicions a singel bit. Why doesn't he try to convince others that I am suspicious rather than defend himself when he is in no danger of dying? Show nested quote +
I do find Vayne's play scummy, that's why I asked. And no, I don't mean a policy type of lynch. I mean a you-are-likely-scum type of lynch. What is your take on his post about me that he ends up doing nothing with, and instead tries to defend himself from attacks that aren't really attacks?
Also, I don't understand why me trying to recognize him as a lynch bait makes me look suspcious in your eyes. If he is a lynch bait, everyone will know that sooner or later. Thing is, scum can just ignore the fact he is a lynch bait and just push him because he looks scummy. Applying your logic in the case of a Vayne lynch, I would bad because I questioned if he was a lynch bait whereas scum looks better because they didn't.
And this is the last, go read his filter thx lol.
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Marv "ignored" those arguments too, cause he "didn't have time to work through Lazer", even when the host revealed that we still had an hour.
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It's totally not suspicious that WoS claims a roleblock when you would expect the cop to get roleblocked.
This post formally screams for my theory to be correct:
On July 03 2013 17:27 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hi everyone, didn't get RBed last night (checked marv) interestingly enough. First I thought it wasn't very indicative of anything, I don't have to get RBed/ killed untill N2. But WoS's claim changes alot of stuff.
First off, its really funky that scum would RNG their RB on WoS, sure stuff like that happends but its not really helping WoS in any way.
But what I really find interesting is, now that we "have" both a cop and a vigi with a shot AND are not at MYLO today, even if vigi hits townie, scum cannot prevent both of these at the same time with a single roleblock, which means scum will either have to shoot me (which is kinda good, given so many are suspicious of me now, Lol : D) or they'll have to let WoS take his shot and risk it hitting scum.
So really, not me nor WoS should get lynched today. We will be able to do stuff with night action if we are both town and if we are scum you can just kill us later.
WoS has to claim a roleblock for his claim to be swallowed, and Lazer has to help him and says the roleblock doesn't help WoS in any way (why not?) , after saying it's not indicative of anything and that WoS claim changes a lot of stuff (how?).
He even assumes scum RNGd the roleblock (why?), not for a moment does he suspect that WoS could be scum, or that he has been roleblocked by a survivor and that scum has no roleblocker.
I'll tell you why, cause he knows WoS didn't get roleblocked, and scum has no roleblocker, and if WoS didn't have to claim vigi, Lazer could have claimed the roleblock. It's just convenient that Lazer comes into the thread after WoS has already posted his shit.
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On July 03 2013 22:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Yeah, I just can't buy into roleclaimgate™ . Just seems too crazy for a # of reasons. I'm sure rayn is cursing @ me from the obs deck but sorry I just can't buy into it.
So I'm gonna mark marv and lazr down as legit for now. WoS on the other hand has got to be scum.
- Last blue to claim.
- Claims roleblock when I can't see any reason for hitler to have targetted him.
- Claims to have shot @ marv which as has been pointed out seemed unlikely for him to do.
- Plus @ the deadline yesterday the votes seemed to want to go anyone but him.
Not sure who's the better lynch between fuba and WoS.
Marv and Lazer aren't legit at all.
If we lynch someone today who isn't marv, it's gonna be WoS.
I'm sure as hell not skipping on reducing scum KP today, lynching the survivor doesn't help town in any way.
I'm not even sure if town loses if the survivor wins lol. He wins with the winning fraction and could have possible uses as medic, that would be an interesting question to be resolved.
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On July 03 2013 22:49 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 22:46 Vivax wrote:It's totally not suspicious that WoS claims a roleblock when you would expect the cop to get roleblocked. This post formally screams for my theory to be correct: On July 03 2013 17:27 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hi everyone, didn't get RBed last night (checked marv) interestingly enough. First I thought it wasn't very indicative of anything, I don't have to get RBed/ killed untill N2. But WoS's claim changes alot of stuff.
First off, its really funky that scum would RNG their RB on WoS, sure stuff like that happends but its not really helping WoS in any way.
But what I really find interesting is, now that we "have" both a cop and a vigi with a shot AND are not at MYLO today, even if vigi hits townie, scum cannot prevent both of these at the same time with a single roleblock, which means scum will either have to shoot me (which is kinda good, given so many are suspicious of me now, Lol : D) or they'll have to let WoS take his shot and risk it hitting scum.
So really, not me nor WoS should get lynched today. We will be able to do stuff with night action if we are both town and if we are scum you can just kill us later. WoS has to claim a roleblock for his claim to be swallowed, and Lazer has to help him and says the roleblock doesn't help WoS in any way (why not?) , after saying it's not indicative of anything and that WoS claim changes a lot of stuff (how?). He even assumes scum RNGd the roleblock (why?), not for a moment does he suspect that WoS could be scum, or that he has been roleblocked by a survivor and that scum has no roleblocker. I'll tell you why, cause he knows WoS didn't get roleblocked, and scum has no roleblocker, and if WoS didn't have to claim vigi, Lazer could have claimed the roleblock. It's just convenient that Lazer comes into the thread after WoS has already posted his shit. Are you really this immune to logic? first the milller thing and now this. The only resonable alternative to WoS being scum is that scum RNGed their RB on him, right? I shouldn't have to explain this to you like you are 3 years old, because you are not...
And you dismiss that WoS claims the roleblock to protect his claim cause?
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Oats seriously.
I'll hate you forever if you screw this up. And Rayn will hate you even more.
Use some fucking logic man, Marv, a strong town player, is alive after claiming miller, and Lazer, the cop, gets neither roleblocked nor killed.
The two guys pushing them, me and Rayn, get shot.
What do you think was scum thinking when they chose their targets? Renounce on killing two claim-confirmed "townies" to kill two other plyers who are supposedly on the wrong track?
We don't lynch outside of WoS/marv/Lazer today, I hope we can agree on this.
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On July 03 2013 22:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think fuba is more likely scum than survivor.
Marv thoughts?
The reason why WoS couldve claimed at daybreak is because scum already knew all the blue roles.
Lazer claimed Cop
Gum claimed vengeful
1 missing kp.
And only 1 kp.
so therefore the remaining role is Vig.
This is from info from the day post.
Stop using that to justify the lynch.
Scum KP is factional. #/2 rounded up.
Fucks sake read the thread.
I'm seriously starting to get pissed, I'll go do something useful rather than arguing with meatheads.
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Apologies Oats, but I'm just too sure about this stuff to accept resistance.
Nice pointing it out.
Marv can only claim that WoS had real intention to shoot marv if he thinks WoS is town.
He says WoS bad = WoS scum.
He doesn't argue from a point of view where he assumes the shot is fake.
Why would scum WoS claim that he shot marv in the first place? Marv has to explain that first of all.
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On July 03 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont know marv, you couldve included the word 'claim' in there.
Also, why as scum would he fakeclaim such a terrible shot?
I'll tell you, cause it's a way of distancing himself.
WoS doesn't show anywhere reasons to want to kill marv. The day after he votes Lazer.
I already wrote this ffs.
You also ask me for my reasons to lynch WoS, they are in my filter, both in D1 and in this day. So please, read bro.
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On July 03 2013 23:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 23:05 Vivax wrote:
Apologies Oats, but I'm just too sure about this stuff to accept resistance.
Nice pointing it out.
Marv can only claim that WoS had real intention to shoot marv if he thinks WoS is town.
He says WoS bad = WoS scum.
He doesn't argue from a point of view where he assumes the shot is fake.
Why would scum WoS claim that he shot marv in the first place? Marv has to explain that first of all. Only once you've explained what I keep pointing out to you. Except you can't, because it would involve me being a completely retarded scumplayer.
You don't want to explain why your scumread is scum?
Do you need incentives from me to push your scumread?
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Marv, how did you misread that post of mine when you refused to explain the stuff about WoS?
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There is no logic in arguing that a miller claim is too risky for you to do it.
That is my answer.
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On July 03 2013 23:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax, is it lylo/mylo?
Thanks to me I would dare say that it's not mylo.
Rayn said it'd be mylo with 2 NKs tonight.
I didn't do the numbers and I'm too lazy frankly.
Just use your logic man.
There must be scum among the blues.
No Vanilla has been counterclaimed.
6 vanilla names
1 miller
1 Landa
4 blue names
8 townies.
1 survivor.
3 scum.
6 townies can have vanilla names.
Scum NEEDS to fakeclaim blues or the massclaim outs them. If marv was aware of that, the claim was a risk he had to take.
That means that with no interferences among the vanillas so far, scum HAS fakeclaimed up to 3 blues and/or miller, holy shit. The scummiest claims are marv, Lazer and WoS. Their interactions tell it all.
I don't think you are scum despite being the last vanilla name to claim.
That means the HAS to be scum among the blues. They are here, in the thread, disrupting shit and not pushing their reads like you'd expect townies to.
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Just sheep me man.
I'm right, trust me.
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On July 03 2013 23:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
tell me Vivax, what do you think the chances are that there is only 1 town blue role?
Well with 6 vanilla names and 4 blue names + 1 miller name, 2 townies have to have either
1 blue and a miller
2 blues
2 millers
Leaves you with 3 scum who have to fakeclaim their name either way.
I think all the claimed vanilla names are legit, the guys before you weren't afraid to claim them, and you don't look like scum.
That's why I think all of scum claimed blues and/or miller.
Gumshoe's claim looks legit to me and I don't think he's scum.
Leaves me with WoS, marv and Lazer.
By play and by setup.
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EPT
