EPTHero Mini Mafia - Page 138
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Bluelightz: Bluelightz is the only reasonable lurker that could be scum. His filter is also not very pretty. I'll do something in more detail tomorrow, but I'm very surprised why people are buying into his "demotivated" act. In Rockband Mini, I tunneled the hell out of him (along with several other players). Despite being tunneled under similar circumstances to this game, never once did he get demotivated - he was very proactive and resilient in his defense. Just read his filter... it's night and day from his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=235418 Furthermore, he's not getting tunneled at all right now. While I'd understand (and sympathise) with his demotivation earlier, there's just no reason for him to be so lazy in the current situation. He's not under major pressure or anything. In fact many players are trying to encourage him to post. Instead of being constructive, he offers random comments and leaves for hours on end. Agree? Disagree? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 20 2012 18:30 Hapahauli wrote: Honestly, it's somewhat insulting that you think I'm capable of doing something that stupid. meh, if you're scum it's honestly not that stupid considering it'd be your only real option at this point given how everyone thinks you're scum. do you see? this is why I don't like the topic. i dont think anything can be gained by us arguing about what you would do if you're scum i'll post some stuff about bl but I need to read through his filter and the voting thread again so it may take some time | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On December 20 2012 18:23 Hapahauli wrote: I realize you have respect for my scumplay, but show me one of my games where I attempt something even resembling a WIFOM play. Hell there's no incentive for a WIFOM play. If I was scum, it would be 10000000x more beneficial to shoot marv, or even you, rather than risk all this shit. On December 20 2012 18:30 Hapahauli wrote: Honestly, it's somewhat insulting that you think I'm capable of doing something that stupid. hmm? | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
i'm probably done for tonight as well, i'll talk about bl when i wake up. | ||
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
 Also, just to give you some heads-up, I'm going to take a flight back to Paris in 12 hours for my annual holidays in France. My activity is going to drop very soon because I don't see my family and my friends in France often so they are going to resent it if I spend too much time in front of my computer. Also I don't have an internet phone back home. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On December 20 2012 17:51 Hapahauli wrote: Some thoughts before I go to bed: There are three possible explanations for the mafia KP: 1) Mafia are inactive/demotivated and forgot to submit KP. 2) Mafia decided to withhold KP 3) Mafia are making some WIFOM play Option 2: I don't consider option two very likely. Withholding KP only makes sense as a play if someone is worried about explaining why they are alive so late in the game. The only person that makes sense for is marv, who made a similar play in Normal Mini Mafia III as scum. However, it's very doubtful that marv is scum at this stage. Firstly, his meta strongly suggests that he's town. While there's a temptation to think that scum marv is super active all the time, that's just not true. Scum marv can be very active in the early game to build town credit. After that, he seems just as content to coast on his town cred. This is the complete opposite from this game, where he's still active and still very clearly trying to figure things out. In addition, a hypothetical scum-marv could simply kill a player like thrawn (whom everyone has had a town read on since D1) and come out looking fine. There's very little chance that marv is scum, or that any other player would have made this play. Option 3: The only person that a WIFOM play makes sense for is a veteran player who is in danger of getting lynched trying to confuse the town. Rather, it only makes sense for me if I was scum. While it will ring hollow for me to say that "I wouldn't do such a thing," consider what possible scum motives I could have for such a play. There's zero strategical incentive here for me not to kill someone. In fact, if I were scum, I'd increase my chances of survival by killing a player like Djo, thrawn, or Vivax, who have been death-tunneling me for a few days now. But if you still think I'm WIFOM bombing or something, I refer you to Occam's Razor. What requires more insane assumptions... me pulling this play, or the scumteam simply being too inactive to submit a kill? Option 1: This is the only reasonable explanation for the lack of NK in my mind, and it pretty strongly points to a lurker scumteam. Jay: I'd rather not belabor the point - pretty much everyone in the thread has outlined the reason's he's scum at this point. Bluelightz: Bluelightz is the only reasonable lurker that could be scum. His filter is also not very pretty. I'll do something in more detail tomorrow, but I'm very surprised why people are buying into his "demotivated" act. In Rockband Mini, I tunneled the hell out of him (along with several other players). Despite being tunneled under similar circumstances to this game, never once did he get demotivated - he was very proactive and resilient in his defense. Just read his filter... it's night and day from his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=235418 Furthermore, he's not getting tunneled at all right now. While I'd understand (and sympathise) with his demotivation earlier, there's just no reason for him to be so lazy in the current situation. He's not under major pressure or anything. In fact many players are trying to encourage him to post. Instead of being constructive, he offers random comments and leaves for hours on end. Z-Boson I think there's an outside chance that Z-Boson could be scum, however given how hard that both Jay and VE pushed him on Day 2, I highly doubt he's mafia. Admittedly I have not read through his filter recently. I'll verify this tomorrow. Grush: My favorite post on GRush is this post by austinmcc in PTP3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357¤tpage=85#1693 I think it outlines the differences between scum and town GRush pretty well. In GRush's scumgames, there are certain posts in his filter for which the only objective is to be antagonistic or trolly. In this game, GRush is remarkably constructive. Even if sheepy, his posts are playful and straightforward. There's no trolling, no antagonism, and no traces of scum GRush this game. Why did you use mafia KP speculation as an argument to exonerate yourself and incriminate BL ? I didn't anyone but you giving this importance to the fact that there was no KP. This kind of thing generally indicates a mafia mindset, don't you agree ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Speculation like this or giving too much importance to night actions and night kills is generally a mafia trait. I admit that I used to do it as town but it has getting me mislynched ^^ | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
To be fair, here is my view about the lack of NK. But first, let's assume that jay is scum, which is rather safe at that point. Given what happened yesterday and last night, jay was doomed. There was no way he could escape his lynch today. The mafia knows it and town knows it as well. So the general activity for today was naturally going to drop, especially if the town feels safe, which happened thanks to the lack of KP. Marv, if he is town, is not going to change totally the outcome of the game today. Mafia can totally wait to kill him and another guy for the next night. I guess that the KP automatically stacks, so it doesn't even matter if it was intentional or not. This game is not going to play out today, but tomorrow, when we have to find the last scum. And tomorrow, we are going to miss 2 town players, for the time when it really matters. So, yeah, as a town player, I don't really give a fuck about the lack of KP. On the other hand, mafia can hope to achieve the following objectives: - Creating confusing in the town if people take the bait, get town players into spirals of useless WIFOM - Getting players like Vivax into "Marv, Y U NO DIE ?" mode, stating that marv town meta is to die N1 (lol) - Allowing the remaining scum to use mafia KP speculation to serve his interest Who is interested in why there was no KP tonight ? Hapa Can I respectfully ask you to concede ? We have another game to play and I go back to France soon, I want this game to end <3 | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
On December 20 2012 17:13 thrawn2112 wrote: whatever, just answer when you see it To Jay: (a lot of these are "hypothetical" so just go with it. just try to answer as naturally as you can.) 1. if you were a random person in the obs thread watching this game and you think jay is scum, who do you think is the other scum? 2. who else do you think is mafia besides boson and why? 3. why did you vote for boson after saying "Just to be clear i think it would b a mistake to lynch anyone but (djo)" 4. which 2 people would you be most surprised about if they flipped scum? 5. at this point in the game, who are you the most paranoid/scared about being scum? 6. if you are town thinking you are going to be mislynched, why are you being so passive? 7. if boson is scum like you say, what advice do you think ve gave him before ve got lynched? 8. if you are town.... pretend you are scum. pick any other player you wish to be your scum partner. what is your strategy to win the game? 9. if you're town, pretend you are scum. what happened to the mafia kp last night? if you are scum, are there any reasons why you would withhold kp? 10. what are your thoughts about this survey? 1. IDK and its dumb to even answer this as im not scum. 2. Z-Boson was just a gut read. I dont have enough of a read on anyone else. Maybe hapa? 3. Because VE already had a vote on him. Also VE wasnt posting as badly and the thread decided not to lynch him. 4. Grush and Marv 5. Djo still might be scum it was wierd that VE tried to paint him as town instead of scum for the fake cop call but thsi is just WIFOM 6. Because I always get mislynched. Plus life can be hectic sometimes and its not easy to write up good cases. 7. Lynch Jay 8. Marv lead the town and kill townies. 9. Well as town they are obv gonna wait till i get mislynched and then have 3 townie deaths in a row. Leaving only questionable players around. Forcing mass confusion. 10. Pretty sweet. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Let's go through a couple of hypotheticals. If I'd died last night, would that have made it more or less likely that Hapa was scum (let's remove other behaviour for the moment). Or is it just the fact that Hapa has talked about the night actions a few times that are making you lean more heavily that Hapa is scum? If we take the base assumption that last night mostly town was thinking jay and probably Hapa, what do you think Hapa is gaining from doing what he's done and said about the night kills? If anything, it's made people think he's *more* likely to be scum, correct? I'm not getting my point across very clearly :/ What I'm trying to say is that you're actually yourself wifoming the night actions, and who knows if the night actions weren't made to incriminate Hapa further? It can be argued that Hapa *wouldn't* draw attention to the night-kills if it was a cunning plan. What I want from Hapa is for him to explain his play. I've pointed out two or three contradictions in things that he's said, and there's always been an explanation (that was dumb, dunno what I was thinking, whatever) and thrawn pointed out another further up on this page. The issue is not any single one contradiction but the fact they keep popping up indicates a longer-term pattern of not being able to keep a story straight. Z-bo - what's your opinion on Hapa right now? From your recent filter it seems like you're more suspicious of BL, but it's not totally explicit. On December 20 2012 19:25 Bluelightz wrote: Cant post too much today guys - flying soon and real life is a bitch. So BL, knowing you were flying and real life, yesterday's contributions were your best attempts? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I know it is not totally respectful but for me it is also part of the game. Let's just say that it is psychological warfare ^^ If the remaining scum is effectively among BL and Hapa, I'm just that they already feel defeated. And that's going to be transparent in their posts, whenever they concede or not... Also you can expect different reactions to this kind of stuff from a town player and a mafia player. Regarding the night actions, yeah, I may be speculating, but the truth is that I don't really give a fuck. On the other hand, the fact that Hapa latest post had a big focus on night actions is scummy. And that's basically my point. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
On December 20 2012 23:39 marvellosity wrote: hi jay. How about that case on Z-bo? Hmm? I dont have much to add besides what i already said | ||
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