EPTShow nested quote +
On December 19 2012 02:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Regarding jay.
First of all, I don't agree with his WIFOM defense. He's on a team with VE, lord of WIFOMs, and if he acknowledges it would be the "dumbest" play as scum, then that's a play he would be willing to do.
If we don't take WIFOM into consideration, the only thing that results is his actions - trying to stop a VE lynch, which is 100% mafia agenda. He was also quite quite convinced of his "logic" on how VE was town (which to me makes no fucking sense).
Let's take a gander at this other topic, which I think is quite damning.
Jay's stance on Djo
In the beggining of the day, jay is mega-fucking-power convinced that Djo is scum. He cites Palmar on how he wanted Djo dead (whilst ignoring VE, but we'll get to that). Observe:
There's no mistaking it, he really does think Djo is scum (or so he makes it look like). Once VE starts getting a few votes in, he flips the switch. 1[/b]And decides to vote... ME! No reasoning at all. The only mention he has of me that's earlier than that is when he "pressure voted" me on my joke-slip.
So he initially disagrees that I'm a scumread. He didn't push me, didn't mention me, so I'm cool with him right?
So now he for some reason, decided that he would try to sway the vote onto ME, of all people. Why me? Why not Djo, why not Vivax, why not someone else he's been suspicious of this game?
And his suspicions on Djo totally disappeared. He suddenly treats Djo as if he's townie:
And also this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=123#2456
Normally I'd agree with Hapa that he's setting himself up to attract too much attention to himself, but what makes the deal for him is how little sense he makes in his choices. A regular townie would likely have tried to sway onto someone he had actually thought suspicious at least one other time in the game.
He also acknowledges that as scum he'd have to be really stupid to do that, so this means he's self-aware of this.
He also would have been a team with VE, who would have told him to do that and would thus justify the biggest 180 I've ever seen.
How "misunderstood" he is
This is evidence that lines up with his actions. He keeps referring to himself as how he's misunderstood, at how easy it is for him to get mislynched. I view this as a setup for him to make the nonsensical decisions he has made this game as well. I'm lazy to quote them, but multiple times this game he's made it a point to say such a thing.
His blatant misdirection on Palmar's post
I decided to separate this from the original quote he cited from Palmar. I noted this earlier, but I'll emphasize it right now because I think it's important. Let's take a look at this interaction with me:
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
He took one part of the post that Palmar made to support his wanting to go after Djo, but let us remember that Palmar also specifically said that VE was perhaps a better lynch due to how "certain" it was that he was scum. Why did jay simply ignore this? Why didn't jay bother discussing on VE at all?
How in the goddamn hell does he feel VE is a mislynch when a confirmed Palmar said he specifically wanted Jay dead? If Jay really thought him to be town, why didn't he defend VE earlier when town was still indecisive?
This even more supports the idea that Jay was asked to do this in the scum QT or something like that.
I'm gonna be real clear and specific here, because I think we just hit the spot.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but prior to this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=117#2333
Jay hadn't mentioned or talked to VE at all. Jay hadn't mentioned me as a scum read at all. This post instantly and out of nowhere introduces two things that were never discussed nor made clear in jay's filter.
tl;dr
Everything points towards him purposefully drawing attention to himself (his self-awareness, his remarks on how mislynchable he is, his sudden and abrupt turnaround on TWO aspects of his game).
His play makes no sense a billion times over from townie perspective (Djo thing is just... wtf).
WIFOM aside, he's pushing a mafia agenda.
Jay is scum.
Discuss.
Regarding jay.
First of all, I don't agree with his WIFOM defense. He's on a team with VE, lord of WIFOMs, and if he acknowledges it would be the "dumbest" play as scum, then that's a play he would be willing to do.
If we don't take WIFOM into consideration, the only thing that results is his actions - trying to stop a VE lynch, which is 100% mafia agenda. He was also quite quite convinced of his "logic" on how VE was town (which to me makes no fucking sense).
Let's take a gander at this other topic, which I think is quite damning.
Jay's stance on Djo
In the beggining of the day, jay is mega-fucking-power convinced that Djo is scum. He cites Palmar on how he wanted Djo dead (whilst ignoring VE, but we'll get to that). Observe:
On December 16 2012 08:06 jaybrundage wrote:
I would be down for a djo lynch.
I would be down for a djo lynch.
On December 16 2012 14:17 jaybrundage wrote:
I support a Djodref lynch.
I support a Djodref lynch.
On December 16 2012 14:22 jaybrundage wrote:
##Vote Djodref
##Vote Djodref
On December 17 2012 11:19 jaybrundage wrote:
Just to be clear i think it would b a mistake to lynch anyone but you;.
Palmar wanted you dead for good reason.
On December 17 2012 11:05 Djodref wrote:
Please notice how jay is pushing my lynch !
-> not so strong, right ?
Please notice how he ran away from the questions I've just asked him !
-> so who is more likely to be scum and town between him and me ?
Please notice how jay is pushing my lynch !
-> not so strong, right ?
Please notice how he ran away from the questions I've just asked him !
-> so who is more likely to be scum and town between him and me ?
Just to be clear i think it would b a mistake to lynch anyone but you;.
Palmar wanted you dead for good reason.
There's no mistaking it, he really does think Djo is scum (or so he makes it look like). Once VE starts getting a few votes in, he flips the switch. 1[/b]And decides to vote... ME! No reasoning at all. The only mention he has of me that's earlier than that is when he "pressure voted" me on my joke-slip.
On December 15 2012 09:30 jaybrundage wrote:
Nope nope nope.
My reason last time was to stop a no lynch. We didn't have enough to lynch adam until i stepped in.
Also if tunkeg is scum like adam was scum. Why wouldn't I want to keep the lynch on him. Im just following what town wants to do. (If town is indeed the reason we reached this majority)
Back to catching up.
Oh and if anyone is curious. On my Z-Boson Vote yesterday. It was just a pressure vote.
On December 15 2012 09:19 marvellosity wrote:
this is like the 2nd day out of 2 that your reasons for voting have basically been "to stop a last minute vote change". What gives?
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 09:18 jaybrundage wrote:
Sorry guys for not being here. I threw my vote for tunkeg as we already have 7 on it, and to stop a last minute vote change. Im like 250 posts behind catching up now.
Sorry guys for not being here. I threw my vote for tunkeg as we already have 7 on it, and to stop a last minute vote change. Im like 250 posts behind catching up now.
this is like the 2nd day out of 2 that your reasons for voting have basically been "to stop a last minute vote change". What gives?
Nope nope nope.
My reason last time was to stop a no lynch. We didn't have enough to lynch adam until i stepped in.
Also if tunkeg is scum like adam was scum. Why wouldn't I want to keep the lynch on him. Im just following what town wants to do. (If town is indeed the reason we reached this majority)
Back to catching up.
Oh and if anyone is curious. On my Z-Boson Vote yesterday. It was just a pressure vote.
So he initially disagrees that I'm a scumread. He didn't push me, didn't mention me, so I'm cool with him right?
So now he for some reason, decided that he would try to sway the vote onto ME, of all people. Why me? Why not Djo, why not Vivax, why not someone else he's been suspicious of this game?
On December 18 2012 09:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hmm I dont think VE is scum. In fact i would say that im pretty dam postive VE isnt scum. Seeing how easily this lynch is going.
And considering that my vote isnt on VE and they already hit 7. This isnt a bus. This is a Mislynch. Switch to Zboson plz.
##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson
Hmm I dont think VE is scum. In fact i would say that im pretty dam postive VE isnt scum. Seeing how easily this lynch is going.
And considering that my vote isnt on VE and they already hit 7. This isnt a bus. This is a Mislynch. Switch to Zboson plz.
##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson
And his suspicions on Djo totally disappeared. He suddenly treats Djo as if he's townie:
On December 18 2012 09:50 jaybrundage wrote:
Djo are you here too. get off the lynch wagon we can do this
Djo are you here too. get off the lynch wagon we can do this
On December 18 2012 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:
Considering that he is actually considering this. I would say no.
As scum would be against it.
I could see a scum team being. Vivax, Z-Boson, And my favorite Marv.
Anyone down for a Vivax or Zboson lynch
But regardless if we dont consoldate i think we should get of VE
Considering that he is actually considering this. I would say no.
As scum would be against it.
I could see a scum team being. Vivax, Z-Boson, And my favorite Marv.
Anyone down for a Vivax or Zboson lynch
But regardless if we dont consoldate i think we should get of VE
And also this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=123#2456
Normally I'd agree with Hapa that he's setting himself up to attract too much attention to himself, but what makes the deal for him is how little sense he makes in his choices. A regular townie would likely have tried to sway onto someone he had actually thought suspicious at least one other time in the game.
He also acknowledges that as scum he'd have to be really stupid to do that, so this means he's self-aware of this.
He also would have been a team with VE, who would have told him to do that and would thus justify the biggest 180 I've ever seen.
How "misunderstood" he is
This is evidence that lines up with his actions. He keeps referring to himself as how he's misunderstood, at how easy it is for him to get mislynched. I view this as a setup for him to make the nonsensical decisions he has made this game as well. I'm lazy to quote them, but multiple times this game he's made it a point to say such a thing.
His blatant misdirection on Palmar's post
I decided to separate this from the original quote he cited from Palmar. I noted this earlier, but I'll emphasize it right now because I think it's important. Let's take a look at this interaction with me:
[spoiler]
On December 17 2012 11:53 jaybrundage wrote:
I feel more confident in my Djodref lynch. I think his diverting attemps day 1. Also the crazy resistance to his lynch day 2 are likely cause he is mafia.
Also Palmar was having trouble reading VE.
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 09:17 Palmar wrote:
VisceraEyes cannot be anything but scum at this point. If this is his new town game, I hate it, because the VE I knew and loved was loud, didn't take shit, took random leads and stabs at people. This chilled back non-active VE is either his scum play, or some shitty ridiculous new town meta.
Djodref is almost certainly scum, the resistance to his wagon on day 2 was just ridiculous for someone who got caught lying like a retard. I have zero understanding of why anyone who is town would even consider not lynching him. It's strictly the wrong play not to kill him. He must be killed or this game is lost.
Jaybrundage has very little to defend him, but there's just so many people that need much more attention than him in this game. He could very well be scum, but after killing VE and Djodref you guys should have a clearer picture to look at. don't let scum push this false wagon.
VisceraEyes cannot be anything but scum at this point. If this is his new town game, I hate it, because the VE I knew and loved was loud, didn't take shit, took random leads and stabs at people. This chilled back non-active VE is either his scum play, or some shitty ridiculous new town meta.
Djodref is almost certainly scum, the resistance to his wagon on day 2 was just ridiculous for someone who got caught lying like a retard. I have zero understanding of why anyone who is town would even consider not lynching him. It's strictly the wrong play not to kill him. He must be killed or this game is lost.
Jaybrundage has very little to defend him, but there's just so many people that need much more attention than him in this game. He could very well be scum, but after killing VE and Djodref you guys should have a clearer picture to look at. don't let scum push this false wagon.
I feel more confident in my Djodref lynch. I think his diverting attemps day 1. Also the crazy resistance to his lynch day 2 are likely cause he is mafia.
Also Palmar was having trouble reading VE.
On December 17 2012 12:11 Z-BosoN wrote:
Jay this is the part that needs to be bolded:
I don't see that as "trouble reading VE". It looks to me like he read VE just fine and made a concessive remark in case VE flips town.
I also corroborate on this with my above post using Liquid City as an example.
Jay this is the part that needs to be bolded:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 09:17 Palmar wrote:
VisceraEyes cannot be anything but scum at this point. If this is his new town game, I hate it, because the VE I knew and loved was loud, didn't take shit, took random leads and stabs at people. This chilled back non-active VE is either his scum play, or some shitty ridiculous new town meta.
Djodref is almost certainly scum, the resistance to his wagon on day 2 was just ridiculous for someone who got caught lying like a retard. I have zero understanding of why anyone who is town would even consider not lynching him. It's strictly the wrong play not to kill him. He must be killed or this game is lost.
Jaybrundage has very little to defend him, but there's just so many people that need much more attention than him in this game. He could very well be scum, but after killing VE and Djodref you guys should have a clearer picture to look at. don't let scum push this false wagon.
VisceraEyes cannot be anything but scum at this point. If this is his new town game, I hate it, because the VE I knew and loved was loud, didn't take shit, took random leads and stabs at people. This chilled back non-active VE is either his scum play, or some shitty ridiculous new town meta.
Djodref is almost certainly scum, the resistance to his wagon on day 2 was just ridiculous for someone who got caught lying like a retard. I have zero understanding of why anyone who is town would even consider not lynching him. It's strictly the wrong play not to kill him. He must be killed or this game is lost.
Jaybrundage has very little to defend him, but there's just so many people that need much more attention than him in this game. He could very well be scum, but after killing VE and Djodref you guys should have a clearer picture to look at. don't let scum push this false wagon.
I don't see that as "trouble reading VE". It looks to me like he read VE just fine and made a concessive remark in case VE flips town.
I also corroborate on this with my above post using Liquid City as an example.
On December 17 2012 12:20 jaybrundage wrote:
Z-bo right after Palmar says that. He then goes on to speculate if VE could be town. He wasnt as confident in that read as he put out.
Regardless its not just Palmar's reasoning that I want to lynch Djodref. Hes been scummy for a while.
Z-bo right after Palmar says that. He then goes on to speculate if VE could be town. He wasnt as confident in that read as he put out.
Regardless its not just Palmar's reasoning that I want to lynch Djodref. Hes been scummy for a while.
[/spoiler]
He took one part of the post that Palmar made to support his wanting to go after Djo, but let us remember that Palmar also specifically said that VE was perhaps a better lynch due to how "certain" it was that he was scum. Why did jay simply ignore this? Why didn't jay bother discussing on VE at all?
How in the goddamn hell does he feel VE is a mislynch when a confirmed Palmar said he specifically wanted Jay dead? If Jay really thought him to be town, why didn't he defend VE earlier when town was still indecisive?
This even more supports the idea that Jay was asked to do this in the scum QT or something like that.
I'm gonna be real clear and specific here, because I think we just hit the spot.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but prior to this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=117#2333
On December 18 2012 09:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hmm I dont think VE is scum. In fact i would say that im pretty dam postive VE isnt scum. Seeing how easily this lynch is going.
And considering that my vote isnt on VE and they already hit 7. This isnt a bus. This is a Mislynch. Switch to Zboson plz.
##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson
Hmm I dont think VE is scum. In fact i would say that im pretty dam postive VE isnt scum. Seeing how easily this lynch is going.
And considering that my vote isnt on VE and they already hit 7. This isnt a bus. This is a Mislynch. Switch to Zboson plz.
##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson
Jay hadn't mentioned or talked to VE at all. Jay hadn't mentioned me as a scum read at all. This post instantly and out of nowhere introduces two things that were never discussed nor made clear in jay's filter.
tl;dr
Everything points towards him purposefully drawing attention to himself (his self-awareness, his remarks on how mislynchable he is, his sudden and abrupt turnaround on TWO aspects of his game).
His play makes no sense a billion times over from townie perspective (Djo thing is just... wtf).
WIFOM aside, he's pushing a mafia agenda.
Jay is scum.
Discuss.
[b]1 I made it clear that I was throughly convinced that VE was town and a cop. I assumed as a vet he would know a good target sheep ftw. Also I also said that we should switch to anyone i was advocating a no lynch cause i was (wrongly) convinced that VE was town.
2 My VE defense makes sense if you were convinced someone was town and they were getting lynched
