EPTjaybrundage was taking a lot of pressure
So, if Z-Bo was scum, it would have been a bad timing to post his case against me, or maybe just to divert the attention...
Hero Mini Mafia - Page 140
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
jaybrundage was taking a lot of pressure So, if Z-Bo was scum, it would have been a bad timing to post his case against me, or maybe just to divert the attention... | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 21 2012 01:52 thrawn2112 wrote: lol what about my actual response to your question? not a lot to say really because I don't disagree really with any of it  I was hoping to find bones on contention so we could discuss it and maybe achieve something but there wasn't anything | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 21 2012 01:55 Djodref wrote: And at that moment, Adam was taking some fire from debears and Palmar jaybrundage was taking a lot of pressure So, if Z-Bo was scum, it would have been a bad timing to post his case against me, or maybe just to divert the attention... Looking at that votelist, I agree that Z-Bo-scum pushing another case there doesn't make much sense, given Vivax or Tunkeg were still possibilities at that stage. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Z-Bo was mainly interested in Tunkeg and me. He ignores the other situations. So yeah, I don't think he is scum, given his day 1 play, or he was totally not reading the scumQT. So far, if we count jay as scum (VE and Adam and him going after Vivax), day 1 actions exonerate Vivax and Grush. BlueLightz really looks town at that point as well. Munk-E is just like super scummy. We really have to lynch Hapa first imo, if jay flips scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Seeing stuff like the above should alert you to how much confirmation bias is involved in all of this. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
The problem I have are the incessant contradictions, and his attitude at the time of the VE claim really smacks of scum trying to find a way to not lynch VE right then. Contradictions? The ones you've pointed out seem pretty far from alignment indicative. I contradict myself in stupid ways as town all the time (remember your "Hapa the Hypocrite case). If there's a contradiction in my suspicion or core gameplay, I'll certainly address that, but what you're pointing out seems pretty meaningless. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On December 21 2012 04:31 Hapahauli wrote: Eh. You mind if I just play the demotivated card and not post? Seems like defending myself is literally a waste of time at this point. Seeing stuff like the above should alert you to how much confirmation bias is involved in all of this. @ Hapa Could you read again D1 assuming Jay is going to flip scum and tell me who is likely to be in the team, given what happened during that day ? Just based on D1 and assuming Jay is going to flip scum, tell me who is scum, ok ? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 20 2012 22:33 Djodref wrote: + Show Spoiler [Speculation on the mafia KP] + On December 20 2012 17:51 Hapahauli wrote: Some thoughts before I go to bed: There are three possible explanations for the mafia KP: 1) Mafia are inactive/demotivated and forgot to submit KP. 2) Mafia decided to withhold KP 3) Mafia are making some WIFOM play Option 2: I don't consider option two very likely. Withholding KP only makes sense as a play if someone is worried about explaining why they are alive so late in the game. The only person that makes sense for is marv, who made a similar play in Normal Mini Mafia III as scum. However, it's very doubtful that marv is scum at this stage. Firstly, his meta strongly suggests that he's town. While there's a temptation to think that scum marv is super active all the time, that's just not true. Scum marv can be very active in the early game to build town credit. After that, he seems just as content to coast on his town cred. This is the complete opposite from this game, where he's still active and still very clearly trying to figure things out. In addition, a hypothetical scum-marv could simply kill a player like thrawn (whom everyone has had a town read on since D1) and come out looking fine. There's very little chance that marv is scum, or that any other player would have made this play. Option 3: The only person that a WIFOM play makes sense for is a veteran player who is in danger of getting lynched trying to confuse the town. Rather, it only makes sense for me if I was scum. While it will ring hollow for me to say that "I wouldn't do such a thing," consider what possible scum motives I could have for such a play. There's zero strategical incentive here for me not to kill someone. In fact, if I were scum, I'd increase my chances of survival by killing a player like Djo, thrawn, or Vivax, who have been death-tunneling me for a few days now. But if you still think I'm WIFOM bombing or something, I refer you to Occam's Razor. What requires more insane assumptions... me pulling this play, or the scumteam simply being too inactive to submit a kill? Option 1: This is the only reasonable explanation for the lack of NK in my mind, and it pretty strongly points to a lurker scumteam. Jay: I'd rather not belabor the point - pretty much everyone in the thread has outlined the reason's he's scum at this point. Bluelightz: Bluelightz is the only reasonable lurker that could be scum. His filter is also not very pretty. I'll do something in more detail tomorrow, but I'm very surprised why people are buying into his "demotivated" act. In Rockband Mini, I tunneled the hell out of him (along with several other players). Despite being tunneled under similar circumstances to this game, never once did he get demotivated - he was very proactive and resilient in his defense. Just read his filter... it's night and day from his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=235418 Furthermore, he's not getting tunneled at all right now. While I'd understand (and sympathise) with his demotivation earlier, there's just no reason for him to be so lazy in the current situation. He's not under major pressure or anything. In fact many players are trying to encourage him to post. Instead of being constructive, he offers random comments and leaves for hours on end. Z-Boson I think there's an outside chance that Z-Boson could be scum, however given how hard that both Jay and VE pushed him on Day 2, I highly doubt he's mafia. Admittedly I have not read through his filter recently. I'll verify this tomorrow. Grush: My favorite post on GRush is this post by austinmcc in PTP3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357¤tpage=85#1693 I think it outlines the differences between scum and town GRush pretty well. In GRush's scumgames, there are certain posts in his filter for which the only objective is to be antagonistic or trolly. In this game, GRush is remarkably constructive. Even if sheepy, his posts are playful and straightforward. There's no trolling, no antagonism, and no traces of scum GRush this game. Why did you use mafia KP speculation as an argument to exonerate yourself and incriminate BL ? I didn't anyone but you giving this importance to the fact that there was no KP. This kind of thing generally indicates a mafia mindset, don't you agree ? Talking about KP = me being scum. Sigh. Do you agree with it or not? I thought I laid it out really clear why I'm thinking what I am. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 19 2012 05:28 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding the Thrawn Case http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=124#2461 Munk-E I can't defend Munk-E beyond the fact that he's lynch-bait. I once again refer you to his newbie game filter (town D1 mislynch) as well as the fact that he replaced out (possibly he didn't have enough time to play). You've been content to ignore both of these factors over and over again. Munk-E looks "scummy." I get that. However he looks pretty damn scummy in his town play. I'm not pretending his play is townie, but you should realize that it could come from town-Munk-E and that his play at the very least should be "null" in your eyes. Hapa's Opening Posts I think everyone forgets that I'm a replacement in this game. I made a post about something I was not-caught-up-on the second I replaced in, and changed my mind when I realized my mistake. I get that "you don't like it", but what about that is scummy? Also... you think "responding to something too quickly" is scummy? I can' only read that as "Hapa put too much effort into replacing in, therefore he's scum." What the tits is that? I was excited to replace in and play the game initially (still had time, oh the memories...), and I was commenting on everything in the thread instantly and without a second thought. You should be reading that as townie buddy. Hapa's Scumhunting I get I haven't posted some giant "Wall-O-Text," however you have to keep in mind that I do this as both scum and town. In fact I'm really really good about posting long cases as scum. Tunneling people, pursuing reads, pushing reads... etc. All of those are hallmarks of my scum-play. The same thing with "passivity" - name me one of my scum-games where I'm remotely passive. I know my activity explanations may be unsatisfying to you, but they are true. Also, outside of that 48 hour period of activity, I've been really active. Like seriously, does anyone realize that I have a 10-page filter as a replacement in this game? As a replacement. VE's Lynch This is pretty selective on your part. First of all, you ignore that I was the first to park my vote on VE in the thread. You also say that I was "too trusting" of the VE claim, when any post I have on the subject should be clear about my hesitation regarding the subject. You can't dismiss cop-claims so quickly. I still disagree with how some of you immediately pegged his claim as a lie - it's something that an inactive townie can do in that spot. Ultimately though we had no choice but to lynch him in that spot since the claim was too convenient and he wasn't doing much to help himself (and you'll notice, I never moved my vote). You also mention my attitudes on Jay as "against the thread." 1) Why would I pick an opinion deliberately against the thread as scum? 2) What about my attitudes on Jay make me scummy? This seems to be more about you disagreeing with my opinion rather than connecting a scum motive to it. I don't know whether people have chosen to ignore it or dismiss it, but what's even the point of putting any effort in this game if you guys don't read what I type? I could pull a Bluelightz card, but I'm not. I have no idea why you read town into his "eh I don't feel like playing" behavior. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
The scumteam certainly didn't forget to send the KP. And they could have done it to make Vivax go crazy about marv. Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because today is pretty straightforward. It doesn't change anything from my point of view, Jay is scum, and nothing would have changed if one player was missing... | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Why do you support my lynch against someone who's openly not giving a shit about the thread (Bluelightz)? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I forgot to add something regarding what happened during D1... Please explain me how BL fits as a member of the scum team during D1. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 04:45 Djodref wrote: No, I don't agree on your view on the lack of KP. The scumteam certainly didn't forget to send the KP. And they could have done it to make Vivax go crazy about marv. Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because today is pretty straightforward. It doesn't change anything from my point of view, Jay is scum, and nothing would have changed if one player was missing... Also "eh, I don't feel like reading your posts or thinking 'cause Jay is dead" Is a really fun attitude for the thread to have when I'm trying to defend myself from a mislynch. This is fun gais! | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 04:47 Djodref wrote: @ Hapa I forgot to add something regarding what happened during D1... Please explain me how BL fits as a member of the scum team during D1. You're right, he does go after Jay early on which is something I noticed in his filter. However, the scum team seemed to have no problems going after one another and even bussed one of their own fairly early. Furthermore, it's not like his case on Jay is original or early for that matter. It could just about as easily be a distancing case. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On December 21 2012 04:46 Hapahauli wrote: Riddle me this Djo: Why do you support my lynch against someone who's openly not giving a shit about the thread (Bluelightz)? Because you didn't defend me yesterday when I was a great mislynch potential. Because of Munk-E. Because of your attitude towards VE fakeclaim and jay during VE lynch. And because I don't see BlueLightz as part of the scumteam when I go back reading D1, especially if I assume that jay is scum. And also, I prefer to lynch you before BL, because it's less risky from my point of view. And I have to lynch you by elimination. | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
He votes Jay here... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=12#238 A post in which he fingerpoints four players in total. He then proceeds to never talk about Jay ever again for Day 1. It reads really clear as a distancing case to me. Keep in mind that even VE tried to get Jay lynched on day 1 (was the 5th vote on Jay) Then, he's asked a few questions about Adam, says he's "suspicious" and stuff, goes afk, then votes Adam: On December 12 2012 01:43 Bluelightz wrote: Aight. From the thread, I'm gonna vote ##Vote: Adam4167 Because of Palmar's case and my own reasons. I believe this is the most helpful vote I can put in before I sleep as I have school so can't be here @ the deadline. Bluelightz was the 4th vote on Adam. That's not enough to dismiss a bussing attempt. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 21 2012 04:51 Djodref wrote: Because you didn't defend me yesterday when I was a great mislynch potential. Because of Munk-E. Because of your attitude towards VE fakeclaim and jay during VE lynch. And because I don't see BlueLightz as part of the scumteam when I go back reading D1, especially if I assume that jay is scum. And also, I prefer to lynch you before BL, because it's less risky from my point of view. And I have to lynch you by elimination. Soooo ...1) Because I was busy ...2) Because of lynch-bait townie that you are too lazy to look into meta for ...3) Because I actually bothered to think about situation rather than putting the blinders on in either way ...4) Because you're giving BL's stuff far more town credit than it's worth (see my previous post) | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On December 18 2012 07:38 Hapahauli wrote: interesting. I'll have to think about whether it's true or not. If no one counterclaims, I could get behind a Jay lynch. His tunnel on Djo felt really forced all through today. I'm ready to trust VE and lynch Jay. On December 18 2012 08:08 Hapahauli wrote: Well it is rather risky given he's one counter-claim away from an insta-lynch. I wouldn't dismiss his claim as an outright lie until I see some more from him. I'm really ready to trust VE, I'm just waiting so I can see what you guys decide On December 18 2012 08:15 Hapahauli wrote: This is true. Also Djo brought up the point that VE never attempted to defend him (Djo) the entire day. I'm not sure if that's due to VE being afk or just lurking though. I really would like to believe this guy On December 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote: I can't figure out a player that I'd feel comfortable switching onto. Jay's reactions so far don't seem scummy. He's setting himself up to draw alot of attention to himself regardless of how VE flips. Even Z-Bo seems alright. ...and who else? Bluelightz? Seems like a coin-flip. Ok, look ! jay is pants on head. I don't want to lynch him anymore. He is going to look good when VE is gonna flip (red) I'm sorry if you are town, but this is how I interpret your posts at that time... | ||
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