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United Kingdom36161 Posts
jay, as far as I can see all you've said is 'gut read' and you've spent most of the rest of your time answering random questions and accusations. So, whatever.
Djodref, I just went over Hapa's post about night actions again. The issue I have with it from a scum-Hapa perspective is that he's almost painting himself as scum. He dismisses the option of a scum-marv witholding a shot, fine, but then gives two other options - himself doing so, or scum forgetting. He basically gave options where the likeliest option is that he did it. Having understood this I'm not willing to attribute a scumread to it.
The problem I have are the incessant contradictions, and his attitude at the time of the VE claim really smacks of scum trying to find a way to not lynch VE right then.
On a general note I worry at this stage of the game where things seem "preordained" that the final scum member is surprising and not what town is trending towards - like Z-Bo, grush, or BL. I've seen town lose too many games like this so we need to concentrate on the players who are probably town like this as well as Hapa.
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France3332 Posts
@ marv
Let's assume that jay is 100% going to flip scum for one moment.
In this case, what happened exactly during D1 ? The lynch candidates were Adam and jay and maybe Tunkeg a little. It means that mafia got totally rolled over the first day. I don't see scum Z-Bo or scum grush let that happen without at least trying to create interferences. Grush gave Adam away pretty early. I need to review Z-bo during D1 but I don't remember him pushing my lynch so hard.
Scum BL or scum Munk-E could totally explain this failure of the scumteam right off the start. Because they were not active enough to derail the town. Not to mention the activity of the town, and the fact that Palmar and you are imb4 
I'm planning on reading the whole game again when jay flips. I think that we could get good info from D1 only if it was indeed a choice between scum and scum...
And the Munk-E case is damning in my view. There is enough in his filter to justify a lynch on Hapa.
I don't remember what you think of Munk-E. Could you humor me please ?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I said Munk-E's absence + vote were atrocious and the scummiest vote on Day 1
Remember there was enough in your filter for the first couple of days to lynch the piss out of you, as well.
That was until you started shitting townie rainbows in the thread.
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France3332 Posts
lol
You say this and I was just thinking that I would lynch myself for my opening post only, if I was an objective observer.
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France3332 Posts
wow, I really sound mad at the beginning ^^
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agree with marv
munk-e pretty much only talked about wbg and his 80% thing, then he dropped wbg as a scumread. so he goes from 0 scumreads to this:
On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote:
Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch.
##VOTE Adam4167
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
thrawn, what are your general thoughts on BL, Z-Bo, grush (even Vivax)?
I know you had a scumread on Z-Bo earlier in the game, is he now probably not scum through process of elimination, or has his play changed things around for you?
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he played off a certain amount of investment into the game that i'm not buying
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I was hoping for a slightly fuller answer ^^
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On December 20 2012 14:59 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 12:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
you dont need to provide a big case just this very second, you can do that later. i just want as fast of a response as you can give. so who do you think is scum and why? I already said Z-Boson. Take at look at how he votes. For both the adam and the VE lynch he didnt even help them get lynched. He waited till they were already had enough votes and then threw his vote in. He hasn't helped us lynch scum yet (as in use his vote to get them lynched) I also find VE's last minute pointed fingers at Z-Boson a way to set him up to look more townie. Thoughts?
I see some effort here.
I especially liked the part where you said I voted for Adam.
Like thrawn said, that logic can be applied to many people this game, so yea.
You are also displaying some kush mafia thinking. "Bah I'm getting lynched regardless, so w.e.". Another example of how you are displaying scum mentality. The only advantage a dead townie has is that his cases when he was alive are 100% bullshit-free. What you are doing is just neglecting that and dismissing your opportunity to do some real scumhunting. Well you are flipping red anyways so, forget what I said 
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On December 20 2012 22:03 Djodref wrote:It reminds me something Also, just to give you some heads-up, I'm going to take a flight back to Paris in 12 hours for my annual holidays in France. My activity is going to drop very soon because I don't see my family and my friends in France often so they are going to resent it if I spend too much time in front of my computer. Also I don't have an internet phone back home.
Oh this reminds me, I'm going to go to california in the 23rd with my family, so from that point on I'm gonna be posting by phone, and not that frequently, should I still be alive
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After I made my case against him it was pointed out that the things I was saying about his meta could also be said about his play in mario where he was town. Then recently there was this post. He was the first person to respond negatively to ve's claim. The least significant point is that there seemed to be a good town atmosphere during ve's lynch and boson was included in that.
However if by a miracle jay isn't scum, and if hapa isn't scum he's gonna be one of the first people I look at. I do not think grush/marv/djo are scum. I read bl's filter a few hours ago and it does look pretty bad.... but mostly only in the amount of content. I was initially having a little trouble exactly understanding his posts but I've gone back and read carefully and I think I see a town thought process. Those two are who I'm most considering as the second scum if it isn't hapa.
I still think hapa matched the profile of a scum replacement rather than a town replacement. My recent conversation with him was interesting and I'm less sure of him being scum but more paranoid about it as I was before. The fact that that specific topic (wifom about night kills and what scum hapa would do) was coming from hapa himself is too obviously self serving to ignore. That also seems to be part of his defense, that he wouldn't try to wifom a defense for himself. Based on my all my town coaching from him I would not expect him to make that defense as either alignment. My overall feeling during that conversation was that he was using wifom maliciously.
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On December 20 2012 23:36 marvellosity wrote:Firstly Djodref, don't ask people to concede, because that is the opposite of respectful ^^ Let's go through a couple of hypotheticals. If I'd died last night, would that have made it more or less likely that Hapa was scum (let's remove other behaviour for the moment). Or is it just the fact that Hapa has talked about the night actions a few times that are making you lean more heavily that Hapa is scum? If we take the base assumption that last night mostly town was thinking jay and probably Hapa, what do you think Hapa is gaining from doing what he's done and said about the night kills? If anything, it's made people think he's *more* likely to be scum, correct? I'm not getting my point across very clearly :/ What I'm trying to say is that you're actually yourself wifoming the night actions, and who knows if the night actions weren't made to incriminate Hapa further? It can be argued that Hapa *wouldn't* draw attention to the night-kills if it was a cunning plan. What I want from Hapa is for him to explain his play. I've pointed out two or three contradictions in things that he's said, and there's always been an explanation (that was dumb, dunno what I was thinking, whatever) and thrawn pointed out another further up on this page. The issue is not any single one contradiction but the fact they keep popping up indicates a longer-term pattern of not being able to keep a story straight. Z-bo - what's your opinion on Hapa right now? From your recent filter it seems like you're more suspicious of BL, but it's not totally explicit. Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 19:25 Bluelightz wrote:
Cant post too much today guys - flying soon and real life is a bitch. So BL, knowing you were flying and real life, yesterday's contributions were your best attempts?
His lack of presence makes it harder for me to read him. He makes some valid points on BL, which I agree with, but that's nothing alignment-indicative when it comes to hapa.
I'm going to look at him more carefully once jay flips. Since Jay is most likely flipping red, I'll need to see if his push on Jay looks like a bus and all of that. There was a time where hapa gave him a slight town read:
On December 13 2012 12:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Also, I'm really not getting any scummy vibes from Jay. Other than Adam's vote on him, there's some stuff like deliberately antagonizing Palmar (YOUR vs. YOU'RE), which seems fairly townie in context. Palmar didn't like Jay's posting, and Jay turns around and starts poking Palmar with a stick. I think scum would have more of an inclination to hide and appear diplomatic rather than antagonizing your accuser.
And I'll have to see at what point exactly did he choose to bus, assuming he's scum.
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And with that I'm gonna go lunch and run some errands. Be back in a couple of hours.
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oh forgot vivax lol
honestly i haven't read his filter in awhile, i decided awhile ago that he was town and that i don't like interacting with him
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France3332 Posts
I have grush as town for this post
On December 11 2012 05:44 grush57 wrote:
Also Adam is reminding me of his scum play.
At that point, nobody cared about Adam anymore, and the scumteam (VE and jay) were pushing a lynch on Vivax.
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On December 21 2012 01:17 marvellosity wrote:
I was hoping for a slightly fuller answer ^^
that should have been an edwop to my post about munke's vote
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
ok, I was a bit confused, thrawn. Now what you say makes more sense :>
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lol what about my actual response to your question?
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France3332 Posts
I really think that the scumteam wanted to push Vivax for their mislynch for D1...
On December 11 2012 10:27 HiroPro wrote:Day 1 Vote Count thrawn2112 (2): Djodref, grush57, wherebugsgo marvellosity (0): VisceraEyeswherebugsgo (1): thrawn2112 debears (1): Adam4167 jaybrundage (4): Clarity_nl, Djodref, Bluelightz, Vivax Adam4167 (1): debears Vivax (2): VisceraEyes, jaybrundageTunkeg (1) marvellosity No one currently set to be lynched. Deadline in 23.5 hours at 01:00 GMT (+00:00).
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EPT
