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On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads.
2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either.
2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town.
3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right.
4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes.
Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again.
From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo.
Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
My daughter is having a princess tea party for her fifth birthday. This kita wagon popped up out of nowhere, and while I want to get to the bottom of it, I really have to go. :/
@Marv
Your case is the most recent and it's making at least a little sense without me going to filter the guy. I looked at Kita early on because of his bullshit campaign post and found trolly kita - not really alignment indicative...but yeah, this Draz thing and the fact that he keeps dancing around Sandroba is especially damning if you subscribe to the sandScum theory.
My problem with it is this: if Sandroba is scum and Kitaman is scum too, then why would they run against each other for leader?
Why not? 2 people running means at any point you can pull out and lend your support to the other guy if it seems like that's the best course of action. That kinda bs happens in politics all the time.
Bear in mind at the beginning of the day syllogism and me are very real party leader options. Like, scum could choose one scum to run, but they could choose 2 as well. Why not?
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On November 25 2012 03:10 Oatsmaster wrote:Lets bring the spotlight on some selected players. 1. Phagga. His reasoning is really weak for voting for Kita as opposed to voting for either Syllo/Sand. Furthermore he is not comfortable of 1 of the players in the party, Prome. Why would town phagga vote for kita when he is not comfortable with prome? If 1 scum is in the party, the party would fail, the thread thinks. Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 18:55 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 10:27 Z-BosoN wrote:@Phagga+ Show Spoiler +on november something phagga wrote:
You are therefore assuming that one of the vets is town, is able to read sandroba as scum(my) and is able to convince town about it, necessarly against other vets who might be scum as well? A couple of people have mentioned being familiar with his meta and being able to discern him scum from town. I am assuming that he is easier than syllogism to pin fdown, and according to my logic that I presented earlier (which no one seemed to want to discuss), I think this weighs heavier. Personally, however, I'm not familiar with either of their meta, so I'm trying to take in consideration the town as a whole. I can always read his filter and previous games if the situation is Dire.
I'm not liking how you aren't taking a stance, though. Here you outline this strategy: On November 21 2012 16:18 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 16:03 Oatsmaster wrote:
Nice post phagga.
Do you have a strategy on picking the party leaders/party members? I will pick a party leader who (priority in this order): 1.) I have a town read on2.) Is good at reading people D1 3.) has a sound plan how to choose his team 4.) Suggests/chooses team members that I agree with 1 and 2 are a must, 3 and 4 are nice to have. Saying that it's important you choose someone you have a townread on. Then, you seem a little hesistant to discuss town reads with other people, as (on a previous post you said) it makes it easier for scum to blend in. This post is an example of this: On November 21 2012 17:02 phagga wrote:
EBWOP: I am aware that we have to discuss the people who want to get elected and that this will eventually lead to townreads in the thread. This is unavoidable. Nevertheless, I find it dangerous if people go around and ask for townreads from people who are not candidating and/or will probably not get elected. Also, asking for townreads when the game is not even 12 hours old is unnecessary. So what I expect from you: go around interacting with town. This is pretty much what you do, fantastic. But now, game is much past 12 hours and you have yet to tell us your opinion on who you think is town and who you will be voting. Out of nowhere, you mention kita: On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote:
Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I'm very curious as to why you chose to comment on kita, out of all people. This seems utterly random, given your other posts. Also, you don't state opinions and you spend most of your time prodding around asking questions, but never saying anything conclusive. Explain yourself, because I can't discern in which direction you are going in order to consolidate your vote. I have not read all the posts yet, I just arrived at the point where Syllo addresses Sandro regarding unanswered questions here. I have not named a candidate yet because I do not have a clear town read on one yet. I was leaning on Sandroba the whole time, and I also tend to think that Syllo is town. However, I only have a very rough idea on how these guys play scum, and I don't trust them enough yet. Also I don't like it at all that they are almost uncontested. As someone said earlier, mafia should have an interest at getting this spot too, and somehow I would expect some heavier resistance. Unless Sand and Syllo are both scum, of course, but Orcams Razor probably says no. Kita was always in the back of my head because I liked his opening post. I was aware that he went MIA for a while, but I still thought that his candidature was serious. So when I realized that barely anyone talked about him, I thought I'd use Acros post to see if I could get some info on what people thought about him. Also, as I wrote earlier, I do think more competition is needed, and since Toad is out of the race, that leaves Kita as the most promising competitor to Sandro/Syllo. Regarding his proposed team: Dieno has claimed after I talked about the possibility to be 3rd party, and the way is behaving I think I could meanwhile accept him in the party, although there are other players that I would prefer. Prom is the one I feel really unsure about. I hope Kita thinks that one over. Nevertheless, for the time being, he gets my vote. ##Vote KitamanGoodkarmas candidature comes surprising, and I first liked his approach for the candidature. However, I voiced my suspicion of him yesterday, and his choice of Sandro for the team looks like a joke, as you can see in my questions to him. I will be very busy today. I should be in the thread for sure in the last 2-3 hours before deadline. Hopefully I will be able to interact some more earlier. However, other than this, his activity looks pretty town aligned to me. He shows interest in finding scum and his posts have good reasoning and logic. 2. VE. This player is interesting because he replaced BioSC, a player who was VERY EXCITED before the game began but posted practically nothing and asked to be replaced out. VE was also really excited for the game, before he knew he was replacing in. VE then posts a long ass posts with 2 scum reads which frankly are not very well explained. He then disappears. I find this interesting because 2 excited players, suddenly become extremely quiet when they are in the game. Could it be related to their role? or their alignment. For now I think that we should keep an eye on VE, if he continues to be silent, I would find it very suspicious
This only works if the role is one both players dislike, ish about bioscience but I think ve is the rare bet who doesn't hate playing scum
Unless you thing they're 3partt?
Anyway Starbucks is closing so ill have to find more Internet.
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Yes didnt get sniped by VE :D.
Have fun :D
I totally agree with marv on kita at this point.
Should we let Sandro slide on the basis of if he is town, he is brillant.
or should we vote Sandro because he has done nothing that benefits town so far.
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On November 25 2012 03:11 strongandbig wrote:
I don't like the case on prone from hapa
I don't see the scum motivation, the case boils down to "this guy voted weird get him"
Yes my entire case is about that, and not that he provided absolutely no reasoning for anything he was talking about.
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Acro sweetie do me a favor and vote me or I'll do stupid things.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes didnt get sniped by VE :D.
Have fun :D
I totally agree with marv on kita at this point.
Should we let Sandro slide on the basis of if he is town, he is brillant.
or should we vote Sandro because he has done nothing that benefits town so far.
kita is very strong as town too.
Actually I failed to talk about this in my case and I should have, although I have mentioned it elsewhere this game. I usually find kita strong, insightful, and powerful as town - this was reaffirmed reading Storm and LV. Here his push on CJ, repeatedly, and other shit like that feels weaker.
You don't let anybody slide on the basis of how good they might be as town. Honestly they both have a decent chance of flipping scum at the moment, and you should vote for who you think is likeliest to flip scum.
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@Strong&Big
I am speculating about the role being related to their activity, this is a GreyMist game, any role could be possible.
I just find it odd that 2 very excited players shut down immediately on their posting and caring about the game in general.
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@TC
How could you conveive a plan whose goal was not to ensure the success of the event ?
If you are town, what is your approach of this game ?
The main mechanic is going to be party leader election and events so what do you do with that ?
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On November 25 2012 03:16 Toadesstern wrote:
Acro sweetie do me a favor and vote me or I'll do stupid things.
You're still on my list of players to filter before the day is done. You and Prom. At the moment I'm still happy with my vote on Chronicler. Why you think Chronicler is town?
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Whatever the outcome of the vote, I think that barring an explosion of mafia awesomeness by either player, all the town KP should be allocated on the other dude who didnt get lynched.
For now though, I think that sandro is scummier.
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Sleeping now, should be back 1/2 hour before lynch :D
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So if I understand this right, Oats, you think that they are both scum? And they both just myseriously dropped their campaign halfway through the day. Someone please explain to me how two experienced players just flop over and give up halfway through the day.
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On November 25 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads.
2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either.
2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town.
3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right.
4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information.
How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
The final person I've been look at is Hopeless1der. I realize that I probably should have posted this last night after nuke, but I was too tired.
The thing that stands out to me from reading his filter is that he focuses on commenting on safe topics. He discourages setup speculation, he asks about marv's irrelevant color scheme (multiple times), and he's asking a bunch of questions, similar to nuke.
On November 24 2012 06:43 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 06:40 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:24 Keirathi wrote:On November 24 2012 06:21 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote:On November 24 2012 06:17 TheChronicler wrote:
I still like a Sandro lynch. My problem eith him is that I think he knows too much. He's also got the most people consolidated on him. How the fuck does that make him scum? It doesn't? Why read into it like that? You were giving reasons for why you wanted to lynch him. Our goal is to lynch scum. Therefore the bolded part of your post is completely, 100% irrelevant. So why did you even say it? No, I was giving reasons for a Sandro lynch. There's a difference there. It went 1) reason I think he's scum 2) reason I think he's still a good lynch candidate you mean you'd lynch for reasons OTHER than being scum? ##Vote: TheChronicler
With his post on his vote today, he jumps on what I consider to be a "gotchya" quote. There is little support behind his vote and it looks as if he is looking for a place to put his vote, rather than push his scum reads.
On November 24 2012 07:12 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 07:07 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:59 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 24 2012 06:46 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:43 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 24 2012 06:40 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:24 Keirathi wrote:On November 24 2012 06:21 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 06:19 Keirathi wrote:On November 24 2012 06:17 TheChronicler wrote:
I still like a Sandro lynch. My problem eith him is that I think he knows too much. He's also got the most people consolidated on him. How the fuck does that make him scum? It doesn't? Why read into it like that? You were giving reasons for why you wanted to lynch him. Our goal is to lynch scum. Therefore the bolded part of your post is completely, 100% irrelevant. So why did you even say it? No, I was giving reasons for a Sandro lynch. There's a difference there. It went 1) reason I think he's scum 2) reason I think he's still a good lynch candidate you mean you'd lynch for reasons OTHER than being scum? ##Vote: TheChroniclerp.s. I've been skimming the thread, Chronicler is very scummy looking, I'll be back in 5ish hours to, you know, actually play the game instead of sitting by the sidelines. You don't take other people's opinion into account when choosing who to lynch? This is really flimsy reasoning for voting me. You're suggesting that the scummiest player is the one with the most votes. That's ludicrous and is a terrible way to determine who you want to lynch. I don't think it's an unfair suggestion to say that the person with the most votes is the one who is currently thought of as most scummy. I didn't say he's scum because he has votes. I said he was a good candidate because a lot of people find him scummy and you can therefor lynch him. If your problem is that a Sandro lynch seems too easy then you need to say that. Right now you're misrepresenting what I'm saying and I have to wonder why. My problem with sandro's lynch is that I don't think he is scum. My problem with your reasoning to lynch him is that they aren't centered around him being scum.
In his defense of sandorba, he provides a town read. I honestly don't see what would lead him to that conclusion unless he has additional knowledge. From my perspective, sandroba could be either afk lazy mafia or null based on the fact that he isn't around.
I really feel like there is one piece of information that we need before deciding on the lynch. Prom claims some type of tracking ability on sandro. Where are you prom and what is your role description? Does the fact that you got a result mean that sandroba was lying about his roleblock?
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##Vote: Sandroba
For reasons I've already stated. Marv, I just feel like Kita cares more about the game right now and I'm getting a distinctly scum feel from Sandroba's posting since his absenteeism. I have far more confidence in a Sand vote right now.
With that, I'm gonna go watch a gaggle of preschoolers geek out over regal accouterments and spiral into a sugar induced torpor (ideally). Wish me luck everybody.
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On November 25 2012 03:23 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads.
2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either.
2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town.
3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right.
4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information. How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it.
I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you.
Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
I'm going to be rather afk from now until the vote. Going to go ahead an lock something in. As far as I can tell, the three big candidates for the gallows are looking like either Sandroba, Kitaman, or TheChronicler. I'll delay my afk-ness for as long as possible so these three can make one last case for me why they shouldn't get my vote.
Rather than proving someone else is scum, I'd like for them to prove their innocence.
Have it it, boys. I don't have much time left. If none of you reply to this, then im going to have my sister who has no idea what mafia is to randomly pick one of your names.
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Oh, add VE to the list of people I want opinions from.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:23 TheChronicler wrote:On November 25 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads.
2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either.
2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town.
3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right.
4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information. How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it. I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you. Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum.
He could be scum, but he could be town. I think kita and sand both have significantly higher chances of flipping scum. If TheChronicler continues to be useless in the coming days, I'll look at him again. I just don't think he's the best lynch for today.
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EPT
