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Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 125

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Dienosore
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
November 24 2012 18:43 GMT
#2481
I realize I made a case on GoodKarma earlier, but it feels as if no one seems to consider him a threat right now. So, rather than waste my vote, I'm going to let the three mentioned to try to sway me.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 18:45 GMT
#2482
On November 25 2012 03:40 Dienosore wrote:
I'm going to be rather afk from now until the vote. Going to go ahead an lock something in. As far as I can tell, the three big candidates for the gallows are looking like either Sandroba, Kitaman, or TheChronicler. I'll delay my afk-ness for as long as possible so these three can make one last case for me why they shouldn't get my vote.

Rather than proving someone else is scum, I'd like for them to prove their innocence.

Have it it, boys. I don't have much time left. If none of you reply to this, then im going to have my sister who has no idea what mafia is to randomly pick one of your names.


This is ludicrous. I am town and I have no idea how I would go about 'proving my innocence' to you if I wanted to try.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9244 Posts
November 24 2012 18:45 GMT
#2483
Marv, in response to your case against me:

The purpose of my candidacy was quite clear; To get elected and to get my preferred team chosen. I provided my list of people I would bring along, explained my thought process, and then attempted to get syllo to reveal his team so I could provide input.

As for my scum reads, my initial scum post was 24 hours into the game. It was basically the people I didn't want to come along under any circumstances due to their play. The focus on day one was town hunting, which is what I also focused on. Today I think I've been quite open with my reads. I explained why Cave has to die, I explained why I am on the fence about sandroba, I explained why I have a scum read on nuke (which you don't even bring up).

You mention that I haven't been drawing on past games with my drazerk case. I read through pokemafia and aperture yesterday and steamship/one of the normal games today. I could bring up a bunch of examples of how he fake claims and posts nonsense, but that's common knowledge. I am well aware of the fact that he has a history of doing this as town. To me, the difference comes down to motivation. At the current point, I don't see how his post benefits town, rather than personal amusement. He has responded a couple times to my questions and completely dropped off the map.

The thing that you are completely overlooking is how open I am being. Every game as town, my number one goal is to share my thought process and hope that other people are seeing the same things.

Why do you ignore the 200 damage that I've been targeted with in your case. Do you think this is a town ability or that I'm lying about it?

@whoever asked me to reveal my guessing game pick, I picked the player I thought most likely to get lynched. At the point where I had to submit it, I wasn't sure who I'd be pushing and that seemed like the most logical choice.

@Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17957 Posts
November 24 2012 18:50 GMT
#2484
Toad, if this is true, why did you bring up this game as a proof of your "ability to read town"? Is this really the game you think your reads were best? I know it can happen. HRM is probably the game I'd label with my best reads despite completely missing Drazerk. Just interested in why you would pick this game.
+ Show Spoiler [Toad vs. Marvel] +
On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:
On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:
kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post...

Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because
He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far.
His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on

On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.

Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long.


His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern

##Vote: Toadsstern


You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation.

1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment.
2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game.

Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason.


Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle.
I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo.

So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong.
So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job.

On November 24 2012 23:19 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 23:14 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 24 2012 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
Toad, it's funny how you've called me scum like 50 times, but the only explanation you've given at all is that me/my posting seems "off".

Sincerely,
Someone-not-terrible.

I wouldn't say 50 times. And no the explanation I've given is that you're usually better than what you're showing.
I really disliked your d1 performance. I really disliked the points you were pointing out d1, like when I was voting Kita and you kept on harping about it like you're some guy in his 2nd game who never had a game with me. I really dislike the fact that you're not so much involved early on, like you did in whatever-the-name-was-the-one-were-I-was-mason and turned out to be mafia as well.
Can't say much about your d2 performace right now because again, I'm still catching up.


I didn't want to go there, because it didn't seem worth it, but you've been straight out lying about LV all game. Mainly to make yourself look better.

You excuse yourself in LV for inviting me into your mason chat as either "you were trolling" or there were 2 kenpachi-like people left to invite.

This is simple false. You invited me BEFORE confirmed town EchelonTee, because I appeared so town to you, and BEFORE extremely townie newbie austinmcc. You invited me because your read on me was wrong and you thought it was the useful thing to do.

Given I replaced in night 1 LV, and pushed a scum straight away who got modkilled, I was viewed as town from very early and that remained the case throughout the game. So saying "I wasn't so much involved early on" is once again a flat out lie.

Just to dig the boot in, mafia (me/wiggles) left you alive that game, despite you were confirmed town, for many many cycles because you were so completely and utterly useless.

Stop referring to games where you've managed to talk yourself into having a really rosy view of the outcome when in reality your read on me was 100% wrong and you got completely outplayed, and left alive by scum for being an irrelevance. And stop lying about it now.

I giggled.

If you misrepresented your ability to read people, I am confused why you wanted to be party leader.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 18:51 GMT
#2485
On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote:
I explained why Cave has to die, I explained why I am on the fence about sandroba, I explained why I have a scum read on nuke (which you don't even bring up).

You mention that I haven't been drawing on past games with my drazerk case. I read through pokemafia and aperture yesterday and steamship/one of the normal games today. I could bring up a bunch of examples of how he fake claims and posts nonsense, but that's common knowledge. I am well aware of the fact that he has a history of doing this as town. To me, the difference comes down to motivation. At the current point, I don't see how his post benefits town, rather than personal amusement. He has responded a couple times to my questions and completely dropped off the map.

Why do you ignore the 200 damage that I've been targeted with in your case. Do you think this is a town ability or that I'm lying about it?



Everyone wants Cave to die, what you didn't do is explain why he is scum. Do you actually get a sense from these other games that he ever posts to benefit town? If so, could you provide examples, because I've never been able to see it.

I ignored the 200 damage because I have no way of telling whether it's a town ability, you're lying about it, or you're town after all targeted by scum, so I see no point in speculating about it.

Same with sandroba's damage and roleblock. I have no way of verifying that either.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 18:54 GMT
#2486
Although, kita, I will agree with you on this - Prome's absence is completely disgraceful given his earlier revelation and the fact that sandroba is the main wagon. That's pretty much completely unacceptable, whatever real life excuses he'll give us.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 18:56 GMT
#2487
It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 24 2012 18:56 GMT
#2488
@kita

I want a name with an explanation of why you thought he was prolly getting lynched.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 24 2012 18:58 GMT
#2489
On November 25 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying.


I would prefer to kill CJ in this case.
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
November 24 2012 18:59 GMT
#2490
On November 25 2012 01:11 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote:
On November 24 2012 14:18 kitaman27 wrote:
There are a couple people whose filters I've looked through that I believe warrent mention. The first would be nuke.

On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader.

No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today.

I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.

This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.

Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba


The thing that bothers me the most about this post is how much resolve nuke has that sandroba is the right man for the job. He doesn't question whether or not sandroba is actually town, which is the first thing I'd be looking for.

"Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination."

This quote is what I found the most off. When I think of sandroba, I think of a good late game scumhunter. What makes him think that sandroba is a great town hunter, compared to anyone else? It's as if he is coming up with a reason that is perfect for the job to justify his vote.

On November 21 2012 23:27 risk.nuke wrote:
No I read your arguments, but they sounded inadequate and non thought through. What really rubbed me the wrong way was your disregard for individual alignment amongst your list. Right now I feel you didn't care, you just wanted an elite team to go under the pretext that they would be best equipped. You purposefully ignored or didn't consider the risks of a team like that and I really don't like that.


At a later point, nuke attacks arco for his team selection based on experience instead of alignment. This appears to be exactly what he had based his own leader selection upon.

Throughout nuke's filter, he is asking tons of questions, but not providing any opinions of his own. This is something I find myself doing quite often as scum.

Towards the end of the day, after sandroba goes afk, he switches his support to goodkarma. Rather than convincing others that this is the best route, he is more concerned with his own personal selection. He lists two people as town reads, but provides no real reasoning and shows little effort to attempt to get them added to the party.

Today he has voted sandroba on the basis of inactivity. He has not contributed much on day two and hasn't provided any alternate scum reads. He is also not very aggressive, which is something I'm used to seeing when he is town.

I have one other person I'd like to bring up, but it will probably have to wait until morning. I'll choose my prefered lynch candidate after that.

Scummy post from a scummy player.


Oh really? So now I'm scummy? Funny because before I brought you up, you've never mentioned me. Strange considering I was one of the three main candidates yesterday, yet you completely ignored me.

Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote:
If you want opinions from me you're free to ask me for them and I may or may not give you an answer, but if you don't I'll be damned if I'll accept that you show up later accusing me of not sharing opinions when all game you've not given a fuck about them.


No need to get worked up. I know I mentioned how I'm used to seeing you aggressive, but it doesn't really count if it comes after I mention it. Why should I have to ask for your opinions? Why not give them yourself and then push your thoughts on people once you do post them?

I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you.

Main candidate... your campaign was a joke.

Also, nice selective quoting and responses. Cutting out my defence of your bullshit.
here is the uncut post.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2012 14:18 kitaman27 wrote:
There are a couple people whose filters I've looked through that I believe warrent mention. The first would be nuke.

On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader.

No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today.

I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.

This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.

Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba


The thing that bothers me the most about this post is how much resolve nuke has that sandroba is the right man for the job. He doesn't question whether or not sandroba is actually town, which is the first thing I'd be looking for.

"Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination."

This quote is what I found the most off. When I think of sandroba, I think of a good late game scumhunter. What makes him think that sandroba is a great town hunter, compared to anyone else? It's as if he is coming up with a reason that is perfect for the job to justify his vote.

On November 21 2012 23:27 risk.nuke wrote:
No I read your arguments, but they sounded inadequate and non thought through. What really rubbed me the wrong way was your disregard for individual alignment amongst your list. Right now I feel you didn't care, you just wanted an elite team to go under the pretext that they would be best equipped. You purposefully ignored or didn't consider the risks of a team like that and I really don't like that.


At a later point, nuke attacks arco for his team selection based on experience instead of alignment. This appears to be exactly what he had based his own leader selection upon.

Throughout nuke's filter, he is asking tons of questions, but not providing any opinions of his own. This is something I find myself doing quite often as scum.

Towards the end of the day, after sandroba goes afk, he switches his support to goodkarma. Rather than convincing others that this is the best route, he is more concerned with his own personal selection. He lists two people as town reads, but provides no real reasoning and shows little effort to attempt to get them added to the party.

Today he has voted sandroba on the basis of inactivity. He has not contributed much on day two and hasn't provided any alternate scum reads. He is also not very aggressive, which is something I'm used to seeing when he is town.

I have one other person I'd like to bring up, but it will probably have to wait until morning. I'll choose my prefered lynch candidate after that.




Scummy post from a scummy player.
I don't question that Sandroba is town or not? You're not the first person to bring it up so perhaps I've phrased it poorly but I did absolutely believe Sandroba was town at the time. As I said his activity was promising and from what I had seen at that time he looked townier by far then anyone else. The next person who disagrees with that better be able to tell me why Sandroba was scummy at that time.

You other point is bullshit. I had a townread on sandroba. Acrofales didn't have townreads on his three candidates. He just wanted to send them because they were good players and for that reason.

If you want opinions from me you're free to ask me for them and I may or may not give you an answer, but if you don't I'll be damned if I'll accept that you show up later accusing me of not sharing opinions when all game you've not given a fuck about them.

I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you.

Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 24 2012 18:59 GMT
#2491
On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote:
Marv, in response to your case against me:

-snip-

@Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once.



Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a list go to waste...
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 19:01 GMT
#2492
The thing is, kita, we're like 4 hours from lynch and yet you've never actually pushed to get anyone lynched.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 24 2012 19:02 GMT
#2493
A lot of people haven't, why does this condemn him but not others? This is not a defense of him, just curious.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Dienosore
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
November 24 2012 19:02 GMT
#2494
On November 25 2012 03:59 goodkarma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote:
Marv, in response to your case against me:

-snip-

@Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once.



Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a list go to waste...


"Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a perfect opportunity to paint a target on you if you are close".
Dienosore
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
November 24 2012 19:03 GMT
#2495
go to waste..." T_T
TheChronicler
Profile Joined October 2012
Macedonia260 Posts
November 24 2012 19:03 GMT
#2496
On November 25 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying.

Giving yourself a way back onto sandroba?
Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 24 2012 19:04 GMT
#2497
On November 25 2012 04:02 Dienosore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 03:59 goodkarma wrote:
On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote:
Marv, in response to your case against me:

-snip-

@Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once.



Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a list go to waste...


"Could you provide your top five scum suspects? It would be a shame to let such a perfect opportunity to paint a target on you if you are close".


No, GK is right. He might get lynched tonight.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 19:04 GMT
#2498
On November 25 2012 04:03 TheChronicler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying.

Giving yourself a way back onto sandroba?


I already gave myself a way back on to sandroba, quite openly, and said I would be happy to lynch him.

What is the point of these pathetic little snipes at everybody?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Dienosore
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
November 24 2012 19:05 GMT
#2499
Is that so, clarity? Plan on whipping a up a mob against him hours before the noose drops, eh?
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36160 Posts
November 24 2012 19:05 GMT
#2500
On November 25 2012 04:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
A lot of people haven't, why does this condemn him but not others? This is not a defense of him, just curious.


because most people are useless and kita is not
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
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