EPTChrono Trigger Mafia - Page 122
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:08 Toadesstern wrote: But telling people who he picked probably isn't good either, at least not if he's town. There is always the angle he could play, "Here is who I picked, a vote not for him is a vote against me" Of course there would be no way to tell a lie here, and no way to tell if he actually took damage. Could be used as a good way for mafia to influence the vote. HOWEVER, I remember kita saying that if he guesses wrong, he will die. For a towny whose head is on the chopping block, he seems rather content with just taking his pick to the grave with him and not trying to survive. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:13 Dienosore wrote: HOWEVER, I remember kita saying that if he guesses wrong, he will die. For a towny whose head is on the chopping block, he seems rather content with just taking his pick to the grave with him and not trying to survive. You misread. If I guess wrong I do not die. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=112#2236 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=113#2241 | ||
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote: TheChronicler I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards. 1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads. 2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either. 2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town. 3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right. 4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game. Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads. Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Can someone other than marv confirm that Drazerk would be a coinflip at the point? the stories I told about BM and drazerk weren't actually made up. The guy claimes bulletproof, unroleblockable medic telling people not to protect *insert townish looking VET* if you're a medic yourself because he'll do that himself just to tell us the next day he lied, he's just a VT and he's sorry that the VET died because he wasn't able to protect people as a VT. Yep, that's Drazerk. No idea if it's really a coinflip but that guy is hard to read and is playing anti-town no matter of alignment. And yeah I stand by what I said: Shoot those guys, don't lynch them. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
From the way the elections went only Sand and Kita were in the running at one point or another, are you willing to say that if Prome is scum one of these two is as well, and if so whom? I realize it is, in a way, an association case with a flip, but I'm curious what you think about this. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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TheChronicler
Macedonia260 Posts
On November 24 2012 21:39 Acrofales wrote: Is not pushing reads a scumtell? Especially if so blatantly obvious about it? I agree. Today, I want to figure out Kita, GK and Prom. I also feel that I am starting to figure out Chronicler, which will allow me to go over his filter again and see if it makes sense as town. I am more cautious. I honestly feel that Toad could also have been the scum in the running. I haven't analyzed his play yet, but Sandro is giving answers that feel right. As stated before, his absense of caring can be explained by him simply going afk at the wrong time. His failure to give constructed reads seems fairly in line with what I know about him in the thread. Syllo seems to be trying to read Sandro as if they are skyping each other, which is simply not the case here. I feel Sandro is not playing any different from the town games I have seen him in, except for a noted drop off in activity. I also think his claim of using "shadow" is indicative of a townie use, but he might be bamboozling us. I realized before he replied that his self-pity could be explained as a townie who is quite unused to getting mislynched feeling himself powerless to convince people (or Syllo) that he's town. Additionally I am a bit suspicious of the way the Sandro wagon formed. It is basically one giant sheep of Syllo, which is way too easy for scum to just hop on with no-to-little reasoning. While I realize this would happen regardless of Sandro's alignment (based only off what Syllo thinks), it doesn't mean I like it. Agree 100%. Really happy we're on the same page for something in this game. | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:17 kitaman27 wrote: You misread. If I guess wrong I do not die. Ah, my mistake. I misread an earlier post of yours that said something about scum knowing how much they need to take you out | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:27 TheChronicler wrote: Agree 100%. Really happy we're on the same page for something in this game. If that's how you feel you should probably vote me. Saves me a lot of trouble. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
Are you giving up and waiving the white flag? because that's what it feels like. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:24 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa your case on Hapa focusses a lot on his opposition to syllo getting elected, from a scum perspective I don't see this making sense unless there is a scum running at that time and Prome is indirectly supporting that person. From the way the elections went only Sand and Kita were in the running at one point or another, are you willing to say that if Prome is scum one of these two is as well, and if so whom? I realize it is, in a way, an association case with a flip, but I'm curious what you think about this. Well that's based (as you say) on associative tells and that's not very good reason to not suspect someone. In addition, there's plenty to suggest from previous games (such as Resistance) that only 1 scum is needed in the party for the mission to fail. Prom (as scum) has plenty of incentive to support a person (kita) who wanted to take him on his team, regardless of allignment. The stuff on Syllo is valid because he tears him down for no reasoning. He just pushes passive suspicion on Syllo, which is really scummy, especially since we know that Syllo is town. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I want to know who you guessed as our final lynch candidate for today and why you pick this guy. I'm serious. ##Unvote ##Vote: kita | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
There's just a couple of things I want to concentrate on with kita. Firstly is his party leader campaign. On November 21 2012 10:57 kitaman27 wrote: I'd like to nominate myself as our heroic leader! The success of these missions appear to carry significant weight and it's something I'd want direct control over. A successful day one will make each of the following days that much easier. I think these mechanics play to my strengths, which is identifying pro-town players early on. I promise to be active and open and not disappear once elected *shakes fist at wiggles* --- Plus in 30+ games I've never won a mayoral election. Give me the pity vote! <3 Firstly, especially on day 1, it's arguable how active he was. He ran for party leader and then disappeared for large stretches of time. He says in his party leader speech bit here that the missions are very important and that he wants control over it. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote: THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba! ![[image loading]](http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/17971151/2/stock-illustration-17971151-thanksgiving-day-in-america.jpg) I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks Party More to come. Stay tuned! So after one of said absences comes the above post. lololol only one troll post he's already repeated, but whatever. If he genuinely believed he was the best player to lead town and pick out townies for his candidature, and given how important he said it was and how he wanted control, do you really come back after a long absence with a troll post? How was that supposed to help his possible candidature? His reasons for running for party leader and then his attitude when running for it seem totally incongruous. He said the leadership is very important but his actions in running don't line up with this stated attitude. I do not understand the townie motivation for this. Secondly I want to look at his scumreads, or lack of them, or lack of good reasoning... you get the idea. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote: I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv: I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nuke Besides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbig His opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4sta I'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself. These are people he wouldn't take on his party. Just ... weak. Why specifically call out strongandbig as someone whose opinions have been pretty vanilla and haven't earned a spot? It's pointless. "hey guys, this player is unremarkable! but i'm gonna remark on him!" risk is called scum for no reasoning, and iamp is "annoying". Great, it's a big bunch of nothing. I bring this up because it's the closest we get to any kind of scumread from kita for a super long time. His repeated attacks on Cave without ever demonstrating why it made Cave scum: On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote: I had one joke post and one joke read on risk. That's like 5% of my posts, yet you've brought it up three different times. Is this really your biggest concern. I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns) He's clearly lying about his success modifier. It's a hidden value and he has no benchmark to lead him to believe 4 is a high number. He isn't keeping up with the thread. He's likely lying about his role and has a history of lying about his role. For whatever reason, he claims to think he would be a likely roleblock target. He has a history of never contributing in any game he has ever played in (and I mean that in the nicest of ways <3) Seriously, read the bolded. kita *knows* drazerk habitually lies and is habitually useless. Where here is there any attempt to demonstrate that Drazerk is scum? + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: In the early game, Cave brings up his identity and reveals that it would be quite damaging to the town to tell us who he is. When someone takes a guess at his identity, he tells us to keep guessing, conflicting with his initial post. Finally, he reveals his identity with an off-the-wall roleclaim. Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote: I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote: He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote: I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched. He does it again. A big case against Draz without ever saying why it made Drazerk scum. I pushed kita on it not so long ago because I know kita isn't really a fan of policy lynches. I find his answers pretty lacking, especially his equation to his pushing Storm mafia which I talked about here: On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote: I do realise this given how I have read your filter from that game about 2 hours ago. Difference? You specifically gave examples of why his absence made him likely scum. You drew examples of excuses to contribute from previous games where he was scum, and you pushed the idea that RoL went absent much more as scum than as town. In no way have you demonstrated, or at least tried to demonstrate, why Drazerk's behaviour makes him more likely to be scum (*for Drazerk*) than town. Don't bullshit me, please. In that game he was pushing RoL for being scum due to his absence, and he's pretending here that his push on Drazerk is similar, which it is not. He made a clear effort in Storm demonstrate that RoL was scum, by drawing on past games. No effort to do so on Cave here. For whatever reason kita keeps saying he's going to look at sandroba next but never actually has. On November 24 2012 08:04 kitaman27 wrote: Right now I'm looking at sandroba, Cave, and two other individuals. More to come. On November 24 2012 09:11 kitaman27 wrote: My remarks on sandroba proved to be quite accurate. He disappears and here we have people screaming that it exactly matches his scum meta of being lazy, while we have other people that are convinced that his absence is something he would never do as scum. I'll be looking at him next most likely.. There are several mentions of sandroba in kita's filter but always in passing, always something in the future. Also I've pointed this out before, but remember: On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote: I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns) Literally the first time he mentioned he's in favour of a sandroba lynch. How can he be 'still' in favour of it? Nothing makes sense in kita's approach to sandroba's this game. To summarise briefly: kita ran for party leader on the basis that he wanted control because his town reads are good and he wanted to help town and that was done best by leading. He then did he best to trivialise his campaign by being absent for stretches and making a massive joke post. His scumhunting has not been scumhunting at all. With his first reads post he gives no reason why anyone is scummy. He gives no reasons why Cave is scummy, merely that he continues to be Drazerk. He is in favour of a sandroba lynch by magic, although he keeps putting off talking about him. kita is seriously not hunting for scum. ##Vote: kitaman27 Having said all this  I'm not averse to a sandroba lynch either. I find his lack of contributions remarkable. People have been comparing his play to Looney lynch mafia, where he was almost lynched Day 1. Do you know the difference? In that game sandroba had OriginalName as his clear scumread with a good explanation, and during Night 1 he told town to lynch both da0ud and prplhz with reasons. That sandroba, while absent for long periods, was clearly looking to find and lynch scum. That's absent here. I would consolidate on sandroba if needed to secure a lynch. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:38 Hapahauli wrote: Well that's based (as you say) on associative tells and that's not very good reason to not suspect someone. In addition, there's plenty to suggest from previous games (such as Resistance) that only 1 scum is needed in the party for the mission to fail. Prom (as scum) has plenty of incentive to support a person (kita) who wanted to take him on his team, regardless of allignment. The stuff on Syllo is valid because he tears him down for no reasoning. He just pushes passive suspicion on Syllo, which is really scummy, especially since we know that Syllo is town. I wasn't aware of that, thanks. Marv you said you were checking out Sand, any conclusions? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18112 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Can someone other than marv confirm that Drazerk would be a coinflip at the point? I believe I have said so repeatedly. Toad has said so too. Take one look at his profile and you would see it is so. | ||
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