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Bleh I just convinced myself that Promethelax is scum. His voting actions make absolutely no sense.
##Vote: Promethelax
1)Prom's attitude on "Consolidation"
Early in D1, he shows a desire to consolidate the campaigns:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=15#289
On November 21 2012 11:44 Promethelax wrote:
I propose that we limit the leader voting to a small pool of players (~3-5) that way they can run true campaigns for the position and all others run campaigns to be chosen as a member of their party. That is if the vote were between Me, Marv and Clarity each of us would say why you should vote us and everyone else would try to show what it is they bring to the team.
If we could limit the leader voting after 24 hours to a small pool we will be able to have a more productive d1, think of this as similar to a lynch consolidation but doing it early enough that everyone still has a chance to make a difference and no votes are left on players who have no chance of becoming leader.
However when things are "consolidated" on Syllo and Sandrob, he is really bothered by this, and starts voting other candidates basically for the sake of creating opposition. Some notables:
On November 22 2012 02:22 Promethelax wrote:
You know catching up with this thread is a million times worse than I was hoping, remember how I said that I was toning down the amount which I am posting? Could you all do me a favour and consolidate too. Thanks.
After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
## Vote: Acro
Come on boys, lets do this right and make Sand have to fight for his nomination.
I'll be out again for a few hours. See ya'll soon.
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My vote will be on Kita, the candidate I trust. The reasons I trust him 1) I am in his party and know that I am town. That leaves only three others in the party and I have a town read on all three. 2) I am very unhappy with how into Syllo/Sand this thread is. The lack of a real campaign away from theirs worries the shit out of me. Mafia would want to be leader or in the party and the only way that is confirmed is if one of them is mafia. Ergo ## vote: kitaman
2) Prom's Attitude on Syllo
Since Syllo is pretty much confirmed town at this point, it's worth looking at Prom's attitudes from that perspective. I mentioned in my previous post that Prom didn't view Syllo as a "credible" candidate. In addition, he has a general suspicion that one of Sandrob/Syllo is scum. But he NEVER explains this. Here are all the mentions of Syllo in his filter:
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After reading the last ~20 pages I have come to a conclusion as to who I want to vote. It isn't Sylo and it isn't Sand. Their abilities are, no doubt, incredible but I don't like the way Sand took over the thread early and no one challenged him. I feel that a mafia player would in fact have tried to take over. (Remember Matt's reed of Decundo in PP) as such I'll be voting away from the two of them and towards someone who I read as town right now and who is known for having good reads.
...
...
I did not address Syllo because he did not seem to be a credible candidate to me at that point. I'm not going to vote Acro as he did not try to generate momentum from my vote on him and I will be voting somewhere else instead.
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My vote will be on Kita, the candidate I trust. The reasons I trust him 1) I am in his party and know that I am town. That leaves only three others in the party and I have a town read on all three. 2) I am very unhappy with how into Syllo/Sand this thread is. The lack of a real campaign away from theirs worries the shit out of me.
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Kier: I've been thinking of that as well (encryption could solve this problem ) but the hell with it. I have town reads on everyone Kita plans on picking. I know I am town. I am very worried about Sand/Syllo. I was planning on voting away from them and won't vote for them even if Kita changes his party to exclude me.
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Oats: my scum reads, or non-town reads really I'm betting on a three party system, are pretty minor (if I were Marv they'd be pink or something)
Hapa reads as non-town to me he has not been the assertive, pushy in my face townie I expect and I don't like it.
I will bet that at least one of Syllo/Sand is scum. I think I explained well enough earlier and I'm sticking with that. If you need clarification I can give you that.
GK: it seems to me that scum want to be elected leader (an assumption but ah well, I have to go with what I have) or at least be a party member, since there were only two candidates who seemed like they would take each other in thier parties I was deeply unhappy. If scum wants be leader (which I believe) than one of Sand or Syllo must be scum. Otherwise a strong candidate would have appeared to oppose them, since that had not appeared I assumed that mafia was content with what we were doing and I was not content with that.
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Kita may not be the best leader but he is better than Syllo/Sand (though I would vote Syllo over sand) and I hate the party you chose. I think that Kita has a chance to be party leader and has a better chance of being town than Sand or Syllo. His town reads also agree with mine.
Hapa, you will not get my vote today. You come to late to change this election and I don't like that you push us away from Sand/Syllo but don't mention Kita except as a 'joke'
I agree with you that we should not be voting Sand based on his unopposed candidacy and I didn't want to vote Syllo since he seemed intent on bringing Sand with him on the mission. I still prefer Syllo over Sand and will vote him if things get tight, as it is though I am more comfortable with Kita than either of them, his town reads are still strong to me even though he is not as townine in my mind as any of the three he chose to take with him.
That's all the stuff from D1. There's no significant explanations. No nothing. He appears to be trying to discredit Syllo for no significant reasoning.
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@TheChronicle
You keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037
At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt.
Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked?
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On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:@TheChronicleYou keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked?
@Z-BosoN
He has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected.
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On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote: @Z-BosoNHe has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected.
This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?
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On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:@TheChronicleYou keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked? @Z-BosoNHe has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?
I don't know, you ask him.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
There are a couple people whose filters I've looked through that I believe warrent mention. The first would be nuke.
On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader.
No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today.
I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.
This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.
Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba
The thing that bothers me the most about this post is how much resolve nuke has that sandroba is the right man for the job. He doesn't question whether or not sandroba is actually town, which is the first thing I'd be looking for.
"Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination."
This quote is what I found the most off. When I think of sandroba, I think of a good late game scumhunter. What makes him think that sandroba is a great town hunter, compared to anyone else? It's as if he is coming up with a reason that is perfect for the job to justify his vote.
On November 21 2012 23:27 risk.nuke wrote:
No I read your arguments, but they sounded inadequate and non thought through. What really rubbed me the wrong way was your disregard for individual alignment amongst your list. Right now I feel you didn't care, you just wanted an elite team to go under the pretext that they would be best equipped. You purposefully ignored or didn't consider the risks of a team like that and I really don't like that.
At a later point, nuke attacks arco for his team selection based on experience instead of alignment. This appears to be exactly what he had based his own leader selection upon.
Throughout nuke's filter, he is asking tons of questions, but not providing any opinions of his own. This is something I find myself doing quite often as scum.
Towards the end of the day, after sandroba goes afk, he switches his support to goodkarma. Rather than convincing others that this is the best route, he is more concerned with his own personal selection. He lists two people as town reads, but provides no real reasoning and shows little effort to attempt to get them added to the party.
Today he has voted sandroba on the basis of inactivity. He has not contributed much on day two and hasn't provided any alternate scum reads. He is also not very aggressive, which is something I'm used to seeing when he is town.
I have one other person I'd like to bring up, but it will probably have to wait until morning. I'll choose my prefered lynch candidate after that.
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Regarding Kitaman: My biggest concern from the outset was that starting with his opening post he seemed concerned with getting elected and very little else. Add to that his general laziness with providing constructive reads, and I would argue his behavior is scummy. Again, though, not to the degree of Sandroba imo. He is definitely not the person I would like to see lynched today.
There is the chance that he is in fact telling the truth about the guessing game he brought up even as scum. As such, he may die even if he isn't lynched, making him a low priority for today.
I'm sticking with Sandroba.
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On November 24 2012 13:44 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:26 TheChronicler wrote:
on phone.
@djo
1) read my filter, already responded
2) my plan wasn't so much about winning the event as getting the information from for peoples decisions not just one. I think we got lucky winning the first event, and everyone now thinks we made the right decision because if that. But how strong are town/scum reads d1? How easily are they wrong? I've seen enough d1 mislynches to know things are more luck than actual hunting.
If you accept that luck p lays a huge factor, then choosing thee people to choose another three won't make a difference for the end result. However, you will get a lot of information from the choices of the three chosen.
I'm going home ams on my phone, I know the spelling and formatting is horrible.
@zbo
You're either scum or don't read actually read filters. I reasoned to acro's accusations. Afaik he still hasn't responded to my response, though. @TC1) it's wrong. You have never explained in details how and when you decided that syllo was town. I want you to explain it now and why you didn't to do it. 2) I don't care about what happened for us. Everytime we discussed about your plan, you say something like "what if the party leader was mafia and stuff". I want you to show in which situations your plan would have been useful for town. I want you to expand your thoughts about your plan. I don't care if everyone else thinks it's bad and that we shouldn't clutter the thread an so on. You still think that your plan is good right ? I'm giving you an opportunity to show it to everyone.
Probably because I didn't decide he was town. So me saying I chose him bc he was my town read would be wrong. I didn't have a scum read on him, his plan was pretty opposite of mine, and cave had been trying to say he wasn't a viable candidate when he actually was, which made me think he was trying to keep sylo from being town leader with no solid reasoning. Why do that? Hence my vote.
My plan was useful regardless of town leaders alignment because it gave us information based on the choices made by the leader and whoever the leader chose. I just gave a situation where it was useful for town. Honestly, I feel like nothing I say will appease you. Why is that? I think you're trying to justify your bad posting earlier.
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On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:@TheChronicleYou keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked? @Z-BosoNHe has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"?
Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together.
On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote:
Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...
Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
![[image loading]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg) Really, no contradiction? At all?
Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.
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On November 24 2012 14:21 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:44 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 13:26 TheChronicler wrote:
on phone.
@djo
1) read my filter, already responded
2) my plan wasn't so much about winning the event as getting the information from for peoples decisions not just one. I think we got lucky winning the first event, and everyone now thinks we made the right decision because if that. But how strong are town/scum reads d1? How easily are they wrong? I've seen enough d1 mislynches to know things are more luck than actual hunting.
If you accept that luck p lays a huge factor, then choosing thee people to choose another three won't make a difference for the end result. However, you will get a lot of information from the choices of the three chosen.
I'm going home ams on my phone, I know the spelling and formatting is horrible.
@zbo
You're either scum or don't read actually read filters. I reasoned to acro's accusations. Afaik he still hasn't responded to my response, though. @TC1) it's wrong. You have never explained in details how and when you decided that syllo was town. I want you to explain it now and why you didn't to do it. 2) I don't care about what happened for us. Everytime we discussed about your plan, you say something like "what if the party leader was mafia and stuff". I want you to show in which situations your plan would have been useful for town. I want you to expand your thoughts about your plan. I don't care if everyone else thinks it's bad and that we shouldn't clutter the thread an so on. You still think that your plan is good right ? I'm giving you an opportunity to show it to everyone. Probably because I didn't decide he was town. So me saying I chose him bc he was my town read would be wrong. I didn't have a scum read on him, his plan was pretty opposite of mine, and cave had been trying to say he wasn't a viable candidate when he actually was, which made me think he was trying to keep sylo from being town leader with no solid reasoning. Why do that? Hence my vote. My plan was useful regardless of town leaders alignment because it gave us information based on the choices made by the leader and whoever the leader chose. I just gave a situation where it was useful for town. Honestly, I feel like nothing I say will appease you. Why is that? I think you're trying to justify your bad posting earlier.
@TC
1) So basically, the election of the party leader and the process we should apply to pick up the other party members, it was just a big gamble to you. You based your vote on the fact that CJ was opposed to syllo's candidature. What do you know about CJ and his motivation to do this ?
2) I'm saying that your "give us information" mantra is some bullshit you made up. Give me a concrete example with players and alignments.
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On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:@TheChronicleYou keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked? @Z-BosoNHe has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"? Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote:
Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...
Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
Really, no contradiction? At all? Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.
Association based scum read on two unflipped players? Even a scrub like me knows that's sloppy play... -_-
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@TC
Can I ask you what do you think was town main goal yesterday ?- Was is to ensure that the event would be a success ?
- Was it to find some mafia players ?
- Was it to build a consensus on a town player ?
Maybe you thought of another goal. In this case, please explain it to me.
Anyway, given the goal you think town should have tried to achieve yesterday, please explain me in details how yor plan was bringing some advantage to your position.
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On November 24 2012 14:32 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:21 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 13:44 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 13:26 TheChronicler wrote:
on phone.
@djo
1) read my filter, already responded
2) my plan wasn't so much about winning the event as getting the information from for peoples decisions not just one. I think we got lucky winning the first event, and everyone now thinks we made the right decision because if that. But how strong are town/scum reads d1? How easily are they wrong? I've seen enough d1 mislynches to know things are more luck than actual hunting.
If you accept that luck p lays a huge factor, then choosing thee people to choose another three won't make a difference for the end result. However, you will get a lot of information from the choices of the three chosen.
I'm going home ams on my phone, I know the spelling and formatting is horrible.
@zbo
You're either scum or don't read actually read filters. I reasoned to acro's accusations. Afaik he still hasn't responded to my response, though. @TC1) it's wrong. You have never explained in details how and when you decided that syllo was town. I want you to explain it now and why you didn't to do it. 2) I don't care about what happened for us. Everytime we discussed about your plan, you say something like "what if the party leader was mafia and stuff". I want you to show in which situations your plan would have been useful for town. I want you to expand your thoughts about your plan. I don't care if everyone else thinks it's bad and that we shouldn't clutter the thread an so on. You still think that your plan is good right ? I'm giving you an opportunity to show it to everyone. Probably because I didn't decide he was town. So me saying I chose him bc he was my town read would be wrong. I didn't have a scum read on him, his plan was pretty opposite of mine, and cave had been trying to say he wasn't a viable candidate when he actually was, which made me think he was trying to keep sylo from being town leader with no solid reasoning. Why do that? Hence my vote. My plan was useful regardless of town leaders alignment because it gave us information based on the choices made by the leader and whoever the leader chose. I just gave a situation where it was useful for town. Honestly, I feel like nothing I say will appease you. Why is that? I think you're trying to justify your bad posting earlier. @TC1) So basically, the election of the party leader and the process we should apply to pick up the other party members, it was just a big gamble to you. You based your vote on the fact that CJ was opposed to syllo's candidature. What do you know about CJ and his motivation to do this ? 2) I'm saying that your "give us information" mantra is some bullshit you made up. Give me a concrete example with players and alignments.
1) anyone saying they have a strong read d1 is lying. I made a decision based on small things, yup.
2) I'm leader, I'm town. I select my three scum reads at the time (which is really just near random). Say I choose Keir, die, Marv. Doesn't matter if kier is scum, he now has a choice proposed to him and his choice gives us information. Same for Marv/die. Information is pro-town.
Instead we got sylo and his three choices. So we got lucky, woohoo. What information do we have now? Don't lynch into those 4 because theyre more likely town than scum. Awesome. Now what? You're relying on people's night actions to give us information now. Sweet.
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On November 24 2012 14:40 Djodref wrote: @TCCan I ask you what do you think was town main goal yesterday ? - Was is to ensure that the event would be a success ?
- Was it to find some mafia players ?
- Was it to build a consensus on a town player ?
Maybe you thought of another goal. In this case, please explain it to me. Anyway, given the goal you think town should have tried to achieve yesterday, please explain me in details how yor plan was bringing some advantage to your position.
Town's main goal yesterday was to get information from as many people as possible and send up a prayer to win the event.
Instead we sent up a prayer and won the event. Sweet, we got lucky. Too bad we got the least information possible from the win.
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On November 24 2012 14:33 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:@TheChronicleYou keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked? @Z-BosoNHe has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"? Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together. On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote:
Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...
Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
Really, no contradiction? At all? Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation. Association based scum read on two unflipped players? Even a scrub like me knows that's sloppy play... -_-
Sloppy but is it scummy?
Go look at the orginal plan that chronicle thought was good in his mind. He believed that it would give the most information to town for whatever reason and now he has people saying he was scum for just coming up with. I dont see how he could manipulate the process in his orginal plan if everyone was dumping reads all over the place what would be the scum motivation for that in day 1 i dont see it. People being as open as possible is basically what he advocated and plan.
Now the contradiction comes from nothing to do with the plan. I dropped the town read not in any part of a plan or for the election of any kind and i didn't advocate dino being on the team to a little later. that what it looks like to me that chronicle was getting all worked up to me was that i just dropped the read with small reasoning like i usally do and it upset him. So i think the situation is being misrepresented.
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but maybe its best to ask chronicle to explain but thats what it looks like to me
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On November 24 2012 14:40 TheChronicler wrote:
1) anyone saying they have a strong read d1 is lying. I made a decision based on small things, yup.
thats bs though i get very strong reads on day 1 all the time. your just wrong here.
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On November 24 2012 14:29 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 14:11 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:@TheChronicleYou keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked? @Z-BosoNHe has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"? 1) Lol, you have to be scum. There's absolutely no way I can see you as town. I sat here for like five minutes trying to find the contradiction, then I realized this was just so much easier to explain if you/acro were scum together. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 05:12 TheChronicler wrote:
Again there's no contradiction and I have a hard time believing acro is that bad. Where do I say I'm convinced my plan was bad acro? I still think its what we should have done and what we should do. However, I'm not so blind as to stick to my plan if everyone else thinks its horrible. Do you expect me to scream and shout shitting up the thread? No one liked my plan, I gave it up because shitting up the thread with discussion about it is stupid. Kind of like what you're doing right now...
Where did I say the people I chose would be my town reads? You're grasping at straws here trying to make me look bad. I can't help but look at the person who I think started this and then dipped from the thread, Z-Bo On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
Really, no contradiction? At all? 2) Really? Two people jumping on the same thing and both being equally wrong? I've given a lot of leeway with reading for this, but I can't find anything in my posts that say I would choose town reads. Why try and make something so easily checked like that up? Something so purposefully misleading only has scum motivation.
1) Except I didn't mention a contradiction. I just can't fathom what sort of "reads" you are gonna use if not town reads. refer to point no. 2.
2) You also did not post a single fucking thing on what sort of reads they should be. What other reads could there possibly be for you too chose your candidates? You didn't go into detail on this, and this is something important and supposedly an integral part of your plan.
This was an attempt, and the only one I actually found in your filter:
On November 21 2012 12:33 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:31 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 12:29 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 12:27 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong. Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event. Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you? Because you're throwing a second layer of wifom into the mix. I'll take the information given by that choice over information given by a leader choosing based on his "reads". Seems pretty simple to me. Do you want information from the choice of one person, or do you want information given from the choices of three people (four, kind of, since you still get information from who the leader chooses)?
But I view this as absurd and vague. How are you gonna choose? What's going to be your thought process? How are you gonna judge what gives more information and what does not?
I can't view someone choosing a scum read over a town read in this brilliant plan because it would give "more information". So my question remains: What sort of "reads" are you referring to??.
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On November 24 2012 14:46 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:40 TheChronicler wrote:
1) anyone saying they have a strong read d1 is lying. I made a decision based on small things, yup.
thats bs though i get very strong reads on day 1 all the time. your just wrong here.
You're lucky with your day 1 reads then. It's either horrible scum or pure luck. With nothing to go on and no real interactions no scum should slip up that early. Strongly disagree.
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On November 24 2012 14:40 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 14:32 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 14:21 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 13:44 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 13:26 TheChronicler wrote:
on phone.
@djo
1) read my filter, already responded
2) my plan wasn't so much about winning the event as getting the information from for peoples decisions not just one. I think we got lucky winning the first event, and everyone now thinks we made the right decision because if that. But how strong are town/scum reads d1? How easily are they wrong? I've seen enough d1 mislynches to know things are more luck than actual hunting.
If you accept that luck p lays a huge factor, then choosing thee people to choose another three won't make a difference for the end result. However, you will get a lot of information from the choices of the three chosen.
I'm going home ams on my phone, I know the spelling and formatting is horrible.
@zbo
You're either scum or don't read actually read filters. I reasoned to acro's accusations. Afaik he still hasn't responded to my response, though. @TC1) it's wrong. You have never explained in details how and when you decided that syllo was town. I want you to explain it now and why you didn't to do it. 2) I don't care about what happened for us. Everytime we discussed about your plan, you say something like "what if the party leader was mafia and stuff". I want you to show in which situations your plan would have been useful for town. I want you to expand your thoughts about your plan. I don't care if everyone else thinks it's bad and that we shouldn't clutter the thread an so on. You still think that your plan is good right ? I'm giving you an opportunity to show it to everyone. Probably because I didn't decide he was town. So me saying I chose him bc he was my town read would be wrong. I didn't have a scum read on him, his plan was pretty opposite of mine, and cave had been trying to say he wasn't a viable candidate when he actually was, which made me think he was trying to keep sylo from being town leader with no solid reasoning. Why do that? Hence my vote. My plan was useful regardless of town leaders alignment because it gave us information based on the choices made by the leader and whoever the leader chose. I just gave a situation where it was useful for town. Honestly, I feel like nothing I say will appease you. Why is that? I think you're trying to justify your bad posting earlier. @TC1) So basically, the election of the party leader and the process we should apply to pick up the other party members, it was just a big gamble to you. You based your vote on the fact that CJ was opposed to syllo's candidature. What do you know about CJ and his motivation to do this ? 2) I'm saying that your "give us information" mantra is some bullshit you made up. Give me a concrete example with players and alignments. 1) anyone saying they have a strong read d1 is lying. I made a decision based on small things, yup. 2) I'm leader, I'm town. I select my three scum reads at the time (which is really just near random). Say I choose Keir, die, Marv. Doesn't matter if kier is scum, he now has a choice proposed to him and his choice gives us information. Same for Marv/die. Information is pro-town. Instead we got sylo and his three choices. So we got lucky, woohoo. What information do we have now? Don't lynch into those 4 because theyre more likely town than scum. Awesome. Now what? You're relying on people's night actions to give us information now. Sweet.
@TC
1) First time players like Oats are easy to read. You can easily feel if you they are town or not and my intuition on them is usually correct. I had a strong town read on Oats, Clarity and Dieno at the end of D1. Maybe I'm subconsciously convincing myself that they are strong reads, but I'm not lying.
2) I really doubt that the information which we would have obtained would be reliable. And your plan was really risky if you take into account that we would prefer the event to succeed.
Anyway, if you want to find scum, the best method is always to scum hunt. That's the most reliable way imho.
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EPT
