EPTYes chroniclers idea is bad, get off his back. If the party had failed the event, there might not even be a lynch cycle so saying that a failed party might be better for scum hunting is irrelevent. Djo, now that BioSC has been replaced, who is your top scum read?
Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 115
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Yes chroniclers idea is bad, get off his back. If the party had failed the event, there might not even be a lynch cycle so saying that a failed party might be better for scum hunting is irrelevent. Djo, now that BioSC has been replaced, who is your top scum read? | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 15:38 Djodref wrote: @Prom If sandro flips town, would you like to lynch syllo after that ? Nope. At this point the success of the mission tips Syllo into a town read. I'm pretty confidant in Sand flipping scum. If I'm wrong I'll have to re think a lot of things. Back to my long post I gooooo! | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 01:23 Acrofales wrote: Just pointing out that your reasoning is complete shite. If Sandro is scum, he doesn't magically lose the ability to see who is appearing townie in the thread. Add to that that he already KNOWS who is town and it becomes even easier for Sandro to pick a team with three townie noobs in it. We then get to setup speculation about whether that would make the event succeed, but on the face of it I still think 1 scum is enough to sabotage a 4-player mission. So Sandro picking a townie team is indicative only and alone of his ability to pick a townie team, which was never in doubt in the first place. The above post is why I have such a strong town read on Acro, he said not only what I wanted to say in response to this point, he said it clearer and with more gumption than I would have. On November 23 2012 06:55 Hapahauli wrote: @ Promethelax It is a joke. Give me a reason to take him seriously and I will do so. Also, you need to hash out your read on me because I have no idea WTF you're thinking. You mentioned I'm "easy to read," that you are comfortable reading me and whatnot, but your rationale thinking I'm "suspicious" or whatever is absurd. For example, you mentioned that I'm not the "confrontational town hapa" when in fact I'm also super-confrontational as scum. Then I see things like this, where you don't mention a damn thing about the important parts of my candidacy (namely my proposed partY) and go off on how you just don't like my attitude on Kita or some crap like that. You should have taken him seriously because he was making a push that didn't involve Sandroba. He was, for a while, the only opposition candidate and an unopposed mayoral election either means we have confirmed town or someone in his proposed party was scum. My read on Hapa: not assertive enough to meet either of his metas, there were some early posts which rang false to me and I do not trust him. Too early for me to say scum but not to early for me to have you far from my green list. Your party didn't matter to me, you did. On November 23 2012 07:53 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Syllogism ##Vote: Hopeless1der Things and such. I know that this got mentioned before but I need to bring it up again. Hopeless: explain. On November 23 2012 06:29 Acrofales wrote: Happy birthday and have fun! But how are you so sure no scum ran today (or if they did have to be in Sandro/Syllo pair)? Kita, GK, Hapa and Toad all took a stab at it. Any of them could be scum. Why you fixing on the syllo/sandro situation? Because they are the only two who gained momentum? Plenty of reasons why scum is afraid to start a wagon (meaning that if nobody else does, it fails). Particularly because if the party fails they suddenly have their whole scumteam on a scummy wagon. Same as any mislynch really. Scum tends not to be the first to vote. Naw, I don't think starting a wagon of a scum (two man operation) would look too scummy. First voter is a pretty safe place to be. Decisiveness etc. As scum I love building false cases and getting my vote down early, makes me look townier and I think that scum could risk voting their buddy in this situation. I am indeed fixed on those that gained momentum. I tried to vote you but even you didn't vote you so yeh, momentum seems to matter. as to their 'whole scum team on a scummy wagon' I think 2-3 dudes could have started a pretty good wagon as long as one came in with good points which wasn't hard to do since they could bring three townies and still probably sabotage the mission . On November 23 2012 06:38 Acrofales wrote: Because the shitstorm is flying I want to point out this insightful comment by Clarity. I want this to be noticed by Prom when he gets back. I already replied to this. but it boils down to two points: 1) Marv was an early voted on Syllo, he could have been distancing himself and 2) Early game it seemed to me that Sand and Syllo would each include the other one in their party. 1 scum in, quest=fail. On November 24 2012 04:20 Dienosore wrote: IDK if I'm town, but I win with town. As for GK, he's popped up a couple times on my map, but the squigglies protruding and intruding his bubble are too varied for any reliable read right now. I havn't specifically examined him yet, so idk. My earlier leanings was scum, mostly because he attacked my credibility a few times for no real reason. Also, his demeanor was setting off some flags, but as many of you kindly have pointed out english isnt his first language. ummm...haven't gotten past this post but GK speaks the English purty darn well, it is Djo who was mentioned as a non anglophone. y u no read thread? Or you may still be high from your blunt in which case, I'm right there with you. Also: the "you win with town" thing means that you are town. (thanks for them birthday wishes bro) | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
| ||
|
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On November 24 2012 15:08 TheChronicler wrote: 2) You're right, I didn't. Why should I influence other people's choices? The best information is given by people making choices that haven't been influenced. The "reads" you quoted there at the end is referring to any reads by a single person. We're supposed to trust the reads of a single person who could very well be scum? Sylo isn't even confirmed town and we have Keir in thread saying he's near confirmed scum. What? No, all we know is that he picked a successful team. I think there's equal motivation for scum to succeed as there is to fail it, maybe more to succeed. I don't even know what happens if we fail the event, but it didn't look like anything happened when we won it. Maybe scum knows the results of a win/loss, maybe having a near confirmed leader was more valuable than risking another of their members to force a loss since that narrows the fault to the four people on the team, while success has now given them the chance to put the entire thread under suspicion. I guarantee if we failed the scrutiny would have fallen on the four and we would be lynching one of the four. How is that good for scum? Why am I the only one thinking of this? Huh? Are you saying that I'm nearly confirmed as scum, or that I've said that syllo is nearly confirmed scum? Because neither are true. I said syllo was most likely town, but that him choosing me for the party leaves some room for doubt. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 24 2012 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Djo, as much as I like my name to be called repeatedly town, it's really too much. Yes chroniclers idea is bad, get off his back. If the party had failed the event, there might not even be a lynch cycle so saying that a failed party might be better for scum hunting is irrelevent. Djo, now that BioSC has been replaced, who is your top scum read? @Oats TheChronicler is my top scumread. His plan was some bullshit plan he made on purpose. BioSC was just a scummy lurker and my vote on him was just a pressure vote. Right now, I don't like how VE entered the thread (i.e. "I vote sandro until he comes back telling me that I'm stupid and who I should vote for"). It's almost like he is preparing the field for a town sandro to come back. But I have to hear more from him. Leaning scum at the moment but that's a weak read. | ||
|
Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Do you have specific stuff that showed that he didnt care about the plan but was doing it for appearences sake? Do you have any other reads? Scum or otherwise? What do you think about Sandro's defence post? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 24 2012 16:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont see how is the plan made 'on purpose' Do you have specific stuff that showed that he didnt care about the plan but was doing it for appearences sake? Do you have any other reads? Scum or otherwise? What do you think about Sandro's defence post? I think the plan was made "on purpose" because he knew he was not going to be elected from the beginning because he is a smurf. You can find it here in his filter. On November 21 2012 12:56 TheChronicler wrote: I figured I'd add in a system that got us as much information as possible.I never expected to be elected since I'm on a smurf, but I really wanted my idea to be used because I think there's a good enough chance we don't get a townie elected (I've lynched enough townies d1 not to be overly confident in my d1 reads) If you are town and come a with a plan, even a bad plan, you always have town interest in mind. His plan was not reliable to assure the success of the event. It was a gamble at most. I conclude that town TC is not really interested in the event success. Ok, maybe, why not, but it's something strange to begin with. His plan was not about to find town players. He is opposed to the fact that people are openly giving their town reads. I conclude that town TC doesn't want to figure out this game by finding town players. His plan is all about getting information. So, I conclude that town TC values information more than anything. Would you agree with me on that point. And yet, this very town TC who values information has made the following choices
For the moment, I have plenty of town reads because I have been looking for town players through D1. The strongest one are Dieno, Clarity and you. Then I'm leaning town on Acro, Z-Bo, Hapa and syllo. A little less on Hopeless, marv and Keir. TheChronicler is my top scumread. I don't like at all the way that risk.nuke and VE are playing at the moment. Weak scum reads on them. Regarding sandro, I believe in his explanations for not being here and I still believe that he is town. The wagon against him is retarded in my opinion. I should look at kita and Prom more closely. Null for both of them now. | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Could you have a look again at TC's filter and check all the remarks and questions he made here and there and tell me
| ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 03:41 Acrofales wrote: The "probably bad" was your first (and only, up until just now) mention of the plan being bad. It is here: From this I don't infer that you are actually convinced your plan is bad. You leave space open for it to go any way. I did feel convinced you were disabused of any thoughts about your plan when you responded to me, though: You didn't try to play it up as if the plan was good, or your idea should be brought back to the table. You simply gave your reasoning behind it. However, the problem is now. Your reasoning for voting for Syllo doesn't feel right at all. Lets look for any indication you think syllo is town: Not here. Not here. And least of all here. This reinforces my suspicion that you are scum and didn't need to "think" Syllo was town, because you knew Syllo was town. If someone at any point had asked me (and I believe they did) why I was voting for Syllo, my answer is: I believed Syllo to be town and trust his judgement to pick townie party members. You skip over the "I think Syllo is town" part in every one of your explanations for your vote and justify it with contrived excuses that give post-hoc rationalizations for a sheep vote. Ergo: you're scum This is a pretty convincing case and honestly, reading it and looking at TC's filter I'd say this is my answer Djo, I'd like to see TC swing if Sandro won't. I'd love the smurf to claim, I have a theory on who he is and why he won't reveal that which makes me hesitant to lynch him but if he refuses to claim I will assume I'm wrong and just play as if he is any other player. On November 24 2012 05:48 Keirathi wrote: Mmm, busy day today. Some comments: TheChronicler The points against him are really strong (particularly the "giving town reads is anti-town" opinion, when his day 1 plan relied exactly on that). Waiting on him to explain more, but I'm liking him for the vote today right now. sandroba Nothing in his filter jumps out to me as anti-town mindset. Really, the only point against him is that he's been lurky, when I observed Looney and he was pretty lurky there too as town. Not enough for me to vote him right now. Promethelax He's someone else I think we should be talking about today as a lynch candidate. Let's take a look at his first two posts: So, he's already thinking about voting the towniest person into the group as a leader, because he didn't want an all scum party. He even goes so far as to suggest putting a "liability" into the group to test if they are townie or not. But, he doesn't pick people for his group because they are TOWN. He just picks them because he respects them as good players. They are two very different lines of thinking within just those two posts. Then: And: But, marv was one of his proposed team, and, he was proposing to put a 'liability' player into the group to test if they were scum. However, those earlier thoughts don't line up with his thinking that a single scum could cause the event to fail. Now, I'll grant him a little benefit of the doubt here. His first two posts were still during the period of the game when people were guessing that the events were more of a "challenge" rather than a "plug townies in and you win" thing, so the change of opinions could make some sense. But he was still worried about having a part without scum in it earlier, but his picks didn't show that at all. And now, what really got me thinking about Prom more: In the first post, he addresses Syllo as a serious candidate, then in the second he says "I didn't address syllo because he wasn't a serious candidate at that point". 1) I do think he was a serious candidate and 2) Prom did actually address syllo. Which makes me wonder why the hell he even said that. His whole argument about there not being a counterwagon to syllo/sand only makes sense if BOTH of them are scum. If one of them is scum, then the other IS the counterwagon. But what really bugs me is how he jumps off of the Acro vote because "Acro didn't try to gain any momentum with my vote" and onto kita, SOMEONE HE HAD NEVER EVEN MENTIONED. First off, that argument for jumping off of Acro doesn't make any sense. Does not trying to gain momentum make Acro scum? Certainly not. Scum would 100% want to garner support to get elected as party member if he already had some modicum of support behind him. Of course, he still has a town read on Acro because Acro is in kita's proposed party. But, it really feels like he's just looking for justification to hop off of Acro and onto the candidate who has him as a party member (and I actually find kita's justification for putting him in the party pretty weak anyways. I'm not positive if that makes me think kita is scum yet, though). Now, like I said earlier, I can see a townie doing that if at least one of the following two condition are met: 1) he, knowing he is town, believes that all 4 people of the proposed party are, in fact, town (which was what he said) 2) has a scum read on all the other available candidates. But there are a TON of benefits for a scum to do this. Especially a scum who ostensibly believes that 1 scum could cause a mission to fail. Bah, I'm kind of rambling a bit. TL;DR - Ran smear campaign on every other potential candidate in an effort to get the one candidate that had him in the party elected. Kier: you have some good points but you surround them with a lot of fluff. I have not been playing up to my usual standards and probably should be pushed here but adding the early d1 crap where my knowledge of the set up was changing by the minute is silly. Acro not voting himself was a reason to unvote him because clearly he didn't feel confidant to be leader. He is still on of my srongest town reads but town read =/= leader read. As to my reasoning to vote Kita instead of Syllo (the only guys with votes on them at that time) Kita's party included me (I looked at my role pm, I know I'm town) and Acro, my town read. As well as Deino a guy I think all of us have a town read on. also Kita posted this early: On November 21 2012 11:15 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree, I think someone being clearly town should take priority over everything else, even if they aren't the most reliable of players. which is as townie as it gets, now he (Kita) was the least townie of the bunch but he was still a light green while the three party members were dark green. That was way better than any of the other options in my eyes. You even say at the end of your case that I could be town or scum...that isn't the scumhunter I used to know. Where did your common sense go? You state two things which would have to be true for a town me to do what I did and hey look both of those things are true and present in my filter. (not the town read on Kita but eh, I only developed it when I looked at him again after his platform was proposed). I still thought and think that based on how d1 played out up til that point that either Syllo or sand was scum, now of course I think it is Sand and think that Syllo is town though. On November 24 2012 06:08 marvellosity wrote: I am still pretty concerned at Prome's alignment and your post makes sense. Right now I'm trying to get a read on kita out of syllo though ;p I'm hurt that you think that makes sense. Being conerned about my alignment=fair, liking that case=fucking stupid On November 24 2012 10:39 Dienosore wrote: Also, who is this VE guy, and why do you all immediately start calling him by a nickname? Should I be concerned? Be afraid, be very afraid. VE: you still owe us some pictures from LC, I won't love you until I see them. Hapa made a case on me but it is long and I'll just link to ithere I guess I didn't explain well in the early game why I thought that one of Sand/Syllo had to be scum butI think I have since that point. If you want to hear it again here goes + Show Spoiler + there were two gyus who both seemed content to put each other in their parties, there was no strong opposition to these two guys except each other. If both of these players were town mafia would have tried to push a candidate as I believe 100% that mafia wanted to be in the party. ergo one of Sand/Syllo was scum. I was more comfortable with Syllo because he did not explicitly state that he would take Sand, and his play in general gave me more of a townie vibe. If I'd had my way Acro would have been elected but sine things worked out I have to admit that I was wrong to oppose Syllo Consolidation that I asked for was shut down, consolidation was on the Obama/Romney ticket and no one else. The one party system wasn't working for me. Z-bo: you are worried that I am playful towards Marv even though I have a scum read on him. Sorry. I like Marv, he is a good guy. I like to tease him and am more comfortable with him as a person than I am many of the other players in this game. I also am aware that my reads are not always right and interacting with players helps me in that respect. | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
| ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth What does this mean ? Are you kind of a tracker ? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth @Prom Sandro claimed to be roleblocked by the way... On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked. | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote: @Prom Sandro claimed to be roleblocked by the way... I know who he was pointing at when he got blocked, okay? | ||
|
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:31 Promethelax wrote: I know who he was pointing at when he got blocked, okay? Did you also know that he was blocked ? Like "sandro was blocked but his action was pointing at syllo" ? I would understand if you don't want to elaborate on this subject but I'm curious and I would like you to tell us more. It's up to you  | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:38 Djodref wrote: Did you also know that he was blocked ? Like "sandro was blocked but his action was pointing at syllo" ? I would understand if you don't want to elaborate on this subject but I'm curious and I would like you to tell us more. It's up to you I'll explain more if it becomes relevant. At the moment the knowledge which I will share with scum is the part that will actually help town. the rest of my role I'm keeping to myself for now. | ||
|
syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
| ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:46 syllogism wrote: That doesn't read like a town sandro post. It misconstrues parts of the case and the tone is off. It doesn't provide us anything useful. My vote isn't moving. what quote are you talking about? Maybe I'm retarded but I don't see it. | ||
|
syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:48 Promethelax wrote: what quote are you talking about? Maybe I'm retarded but I don't see it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17006956 | ||
|
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 24 2012 17:54 syllogism wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17006956 Would you do me the great kindness of going through that post piecemeal and explaining why each piece gives you a scum read. I agree with your read but want to know how you think. | ||
| ||
