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On October 18 2012 15:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
slOosh and ZBos with a DP/Shiao kicker if I was wrong about Kush, which as I said, I didn't think was the case.
DP you fucking smashed me - you zeroed in on my weakness (penchant for setup speculation when shit goes wrong, tendency to lose my shit) and nailed me to the wall with it at the exact right moment. I attribute this loss to your craftiness as much as if not more than I blame apathetic, non-reading townies for it. Which is a lot. So good job.
Thanks. <3
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On October 18 2012 15:50 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 15:43 slOosh wrote:
Also, don't know why people assumed all the roles were in the game. It would have been heavily punished in any other game I feel. Probably because it was said clearly in the OP that we knew the names of all the roles in the game. Which means they are in the game. Which means at least one person is each role (but more than one can be said role, a misunderstanding made by me in the obsQT)
That's like every single open setup excluding the few that explicitly say "not all roles may be in game". If there was more room to fake claim town would have (and I think should have) been punished so hard. I mean it wasn't even like, talking about stuff from a balance perspective, e.g. "oh we had 2 town vigs, so a 3rd is improbable", but straight up "oh no one counter claim I guess he town".
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GG.
Quite an annoying game due to how many clear lycnhes there were and how powerful the roles were. Only the Mattchew and Shady lynch seemed to be coming from discussion (although slightly fuelled by 3rd party). The rest was just 2 paramedic lynches, 1 obvious lynch on a "scum" claimed by a cop and the last on the cop who mis-claimed. All very role-focused.
I probably tunneled too much, but I dont see the VE lynch being strange. Take 100 games where a supposed cop claims hes found a scum and he hasnt. How many games out of those 100 are due to a role+alignment framer hitting the right target with like 15ppl left, and how many are due to the cop being scum and have fake-claimed? I dont know the answer to that, someone more experienced tell me, but I strongly doubt the role+alignment framer is more common (yea yea I know circumstances bla bla, but then at least admit there were other scummy parts of VEs play, just as with about anyones play, too). I regret my tunneling because it was clearly stopping me from finding other scum, but I dont regret the VE lynch. Thats what happens when theres so many powerful roles in the game. The paramedics fucking mafia, the framer fucked town. Mafia got the better of it. I'll likely push for a lynch on the same guy making the same incorrect claim VE did next game, and the game after that.
Next time I'd very much prefer less power roles and less powerful roles.
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
And really, HOW THE FUCK DID BC KNOW ABOUT MY ROLE!? I wouldve defended him to death, including revealing myself, had votes started going BCs way. And also, what was the "passive roleblocks" all about BC?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum.
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On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum.
We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor.
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On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. 
Haha, I feel the opposite. :p
Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 18 2012 16:47 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum. We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor.
Why wasn't the lack of a counter claim a factor? You expected him to flip as a red rolecop, but not as a blue rolecop? This still means there's an unaccounted-for blue rolecop, right?
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On October 18 2012 17:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:47 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum. We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor. Why wasn't the lack of a counter claim a factor? You expected him to flip as a red rolecop, but not as a blue rolecop? This still means there's an unaccounted-for blue rolecop, right?
No, not according to the OP......right?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On October 18 2012 17:02 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:01 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:47 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum. We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor. Why wasn't the lack of a counter claim a factor? You expected him to flip as a red rolecop, but not as a blue rolecop? This still means there's an unaccounted-for blue rolecop, right? No, not according to the OP......right?
So the assumption is that VE was a mafia rolecop, and there is no town rolecop, in a game with godfather and miller? >.>
Far be it from me to speculate on setup, but that sounds literally insane. Hell, given the fact that he claimed a red check on a player who was already suspicious, AND the fact that he's VE, it seems profoundly unlikely that he wasn't a town rolecop.
Then again, by then I was dead and not reading very heavily, which changes your perception of things. I just don't know why the claimed cop was lynched.
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Because BC told them to...and because the care was beaten out of me.
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On October 18 2012 17:04 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:02 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 17:01 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:47 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 16:45 Blazinghand wrote:On October 18 2012 16:35 Kreb wrote:
Oh, and everyone calling the VE lynch bad play, imagine VE being scum and us letting him sit on his fakeclaim all game long into mafia victory. What would you have thought of that town play? Yea....
I'd have thought the town play is fine, but the cop not counter-claiming him would have been quite bad had he been scum. We were banking on him being Private Investigator, not being scum goon claiming PI. The lack of counter claim wasnt a factor. Why wasn't the lack of a counter claim a factor? You expected him to flip as a red rolecop, but not as a blue rolecop? This still means there's an unaccounted-for blue rolecop, right? No, not according to the OP......right? So the assumption is that VE was a mafia rolecop, and there is no town rolecop, in a game with godfather and miller? >.> Far be it from me to speculate on setup, but that sounds literally insane. Hell, given the fact that he claimed a red check on a player who was already suspicious, AND the fact that he's VE, it seems profoundly unlikely that he wasn't a town rolecop. Then again, by then I was dead and not reading very heavily, which changes your perception of things. I just don't know why the claimed cop was lynched.
Well, there was still a "Detective" in the game too. But I guess thats a fair argument. To me it looked like what you say was overshadowed by other happening. But that might have been me tunneling I guess. Point taken.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to the thread after I died, so I can't say it one way or another. The fact that he had a red check on a guy and the guy flipped green, though, in general shouldn't be a sign of a fakeclaim.
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On October 18 2012 17:18 Blazinghand wrote:
I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to the thread after I died, so I can't say it one way or another. The fact that he had a red check on a guy and the guy flipped green, though, in general shouldn't be a sign of a fakeclaim.
I guess the right choice should have been to vote sloosh (which many seemed to agree on was scum), check him flip and if the flip in any way cleared VE (which it wouldnt have done  ) then potentially get back on VE next day if hes still alive. Had mafia kept VE alive though I see no reason why we shouldnt have voted VE the day after though.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, hindsight is 20/20 as they say. My only regret is letting Kush distract me from my ShiaoPi.
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On October 18 2012 17:23 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, hindsight is 20/20 as they say. My only regret is letting Kush distract me from my ShiaoPi.
Who were you?
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On October 18 2012 16:58 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. Haha, I feel the opposite. :p Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better.
I don't think That the frame was entirely 'luck'.There was ground work put into the kush frame. Several people were casting suspicion on him to the point where it was a fairly reasonable choice to check him. It is not as much as 1/15 chance to frame someone as it is creating and identifying situations in which a frame would be useful.
Like we were tossing up between a Coag/Kush frame. It turns out coag was checked the night before kush. So it is was less 'luck' than you think.
This set-up was heavily town favoured also. So if anyone should be complaining about set-up and roles it is scum.
we had GF and Framer that messed with a singular cop and a roleblocker.
Town had
Watcher, Watcher, Paramedic, Paramedic, Veteran, Madhatter, Cop
5 investigative roles, 3 night kill stopping roles. and a Conditional Vig
I feel very satisfied with my play this game.
-Edit apart from missing the night kills like a newb 
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Paramedics aren't investigative roles.
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On October 18 2012 17:25 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 16:58 Kreb wrote:On October 18 2012 14:53 DarthPunk wrote:Well. I feel a lot better about winning this game than I did at the end of the last game winning at LYLO because Grush voted himself and blew up BM. Haha, I feel the opposite. :p Last game I told you I thought mafia deserved it because mafia was better and town wasnt getting many read right. And I told you you should feel good. This game I dont feel like it was anywhere near as clear that mafia > town. I feel 100% shafted by the framer, thats a part of the game and I dont mind it, but I dont feel mafia won due to their good play. At the end of the game I had Sloosh, you and Shiao down as the most likely team with Sloosh being very clear (risk was so bitter it would require quite a good mafia to play that bitter I-know-best town role so I pinned him down as town towards the end). Yea I know its easy to say afterwards but thats how it was. Overall Im satisfied by my play and by town play compared to last game. This was a "lucky" framing win as opposed to last game imo, where mafia was straight up better. I don't think That the frame was entirely 'luck'.There was ground work put into the kush frame. Several people were casting suspicion on him to the point where it was a fairly reasonable choice to check him. It is not as much as 1/15 chance to frame someone as it is creating and identifying situations in which a frame would be useful. Like we were tossing up between a Coag/Kush frame. It turns out coag was checked the night before kush. So it is was less 'luck' than you think. This set-up was heavily town favoured also. So if anyone should be complaining about set-up and roles it is scum. we had GF and Framer that messed with a singular cop and a roleblocker. Town had Watcher, Watcher, Paramedic, Paramedic, Veteran, Madhatter, Cop 5 investigative roles, 3 night kill stopping roles. and a Conditional Vig I feel very satisfied with my play this game.
Well I didnt mean you randomly hit right (hence "lucky" not lucky), if you had good reason to frame him then kudos. But I just kinda mean you hit bullseye with one move which gave you the game. Had you not done it, I think town would have won. Partially due the double paramedics of course, which definitely would have been reasonable by mafia to blame the loss on in that case.
As I said, too many too good roles means roles win games not good play. This time a mafia role got you the win imo. Less quantity of roles and less powerful roles please :<
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On October 18 2012 17:30 risk.nuke wrote:
Paramedics aren't investigative roles.
You what?
-edit-
How are they not investigative roles? If you catch scum you die and are instaconfirmed. if not you medic save and have a confirmed townie....
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Oh and I agree the setup was town favored. But the reason you overcame that wasnt because of sick mafia play where you tricked us all.
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EPT
