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On October 18 2012 14:30 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:11 strongandbig wrote:
holy crap
mafia won despite free lynches of two very good players, wow
although that coroner role is pretty ridic Those weren't free lynches and a weak medic isn't that strong a role. Marvel just gave up for no reason at all despite risen making that "if i die he is mafia" post like 2 hours before deadline. Would have been easy to argue mafia shot him to frame marvel.
Argument would not have been easy. It's kind of like a red cop check after the cop has flipped and been confirmed a cop. You have to lynch the red check, no matter what, imo.
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On October 18 2012 14:33 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:30 syllogism wrote:On October 18 2012 13:11 strongandbig wrote:
holy crap
mafia won despite free lynches of two very good players, wow
although that coroner role is pretty ridic Those weren't free lynches and a weak medic isn't that strong a role. Marvel just gave up for no reason at all despite risen making that "if i die he is mafia" post like 2 hours before deadline. Would have been easy to argue mafia shot him to frame marvel. Argument would not have been easy. It's kind of like a red cop check after the cop has flipped and been confirmed a cop. You have to lynch the red check, no matter what, imo.
I actually agree with Risen here. The smart move is to lynch the red check anyways, no matter what the person says or does.
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On October 18 2012 14:33 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:30 syllogism wrote:On October 18 2012 13:11 strongandbig wrote:
holy crap
mafia won despite free lynches of two very good players, wow
although that coroner role is pretty ridic Those weren't free lynches and a weak medic isn't that strong a role. Marvel just gave up for no reason at all despite risen making that "if i die he is mafia" post like 2 hours before deadline. Would have been easy to argue mafia shot him to frame marvel. Argument would not have been easy. It's kind of like a red cop check after the cop has flipped and been confirmed a cop. You have to lynch the red check, no matter what, imo.
No, it's not like that at all. More like a cop announcing during night who he is going to check and there being a possibility of a framer in the game.
On October 18 2012 14:34 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:33 Risen wrote:On October 18 2012 14:30 syllogism wrote:On October 18 2012 13:11 strongandbig wrote:
holy crap
mafia won despite free lynches of two very good players, wow
although that coroner role is pretty ridic Those weren't free lynches and a weak medic isn't that strong a role. Marvel just gave up for no reason at all despite risen making that "if i die he is mafia" post like 2 hours before deadline. Would have been easy to argue mafia shot him to frame marvel. Argument would not have been easy. It's kind of like a red cop check after the cop has flipped and been confirmed a cop. You have to lynch the red check, no matter what, imo. I actually agree with Risen here. The smart move is to lynch the red check anyways, no matter what the person says or does.
Incorrect, the smart move is to read the posts of the red checked player first to see if there is any possibility of him being mafia. People have correctly identified someone as town miller despite there being a red check on him.
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On October 18 2012 14:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:27 HiroPro wrote:On October 18 2012 14:23 Risen wrote:
At the end of the day, I just really, really want everyone reading this, for the sake of my future sanity if I'm ever in games with you guys, to remember this lesson.
DON'T LYNCH THE COP OR MEDIC WHO HAS NO COUNTERCLAIM!
Alrighty, I'm done. Gg scum, gg BC. evaluate a claim on its circumstance and the play of the individual. otherwise you end up with situations like prplhz in NMM II riding to victory on an uncontested cop claim. Now the corollary is that no one should ever lynch a blue claim just because "I wouldn't claim like this". Exactly and the circumstances in this situation matched up perfectly with a VE fake claim. Added to the fact he survived 2 nights after he claimed which is incredibly risky scum play. It is not as black and white as Risen is making out to be IMO.
No they did not. VE fake claiming to lead a lynch on kush made very little sense. Survival is not a strong indication of guilt. It is just something that should be considered.
If people had carefully read VE's play in the beginning of the game and if they had looked at his play around the claim in relation to the way that he has claimed blue in other games, they should have realized that he was probably town. When BC flipped third party, people should have immediately disregarded what he had said before about VE's claim not making sense and instead focused only on BC's last post, which clearly indicated that he considered VE to be town.
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On October 18 2012 14:34 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:33 Risen wrote:On October 18 2012 14:30 syllogism wrote:On October 18 2012 13:11 strongandbig wrote:
holy crap
mafia won despite free lynches of two very good players, wow
although that coroner role is pretty ridic Those weren't free lynches and a weak medic isn't that strong a role. Marvel just gave up for no reason at all despite risen making that "if i die he is mafia" post like 2 hours before deadline. Would have been easy to argue mafia shot him to frame marvel. Argument would not have been easy. It's kind of like a red cop check after the cop has flipped and been confirmed a cop. You have to lynch the red check, no matter what, imo. No, it's not like that at all. More like a cop announcing during night who he is going to check and there being a possibility of a framer in the game.
With such little time left? Could have happened. Also have to consider my meta of saying "lynch marv if I die" whenever I get the chance so maybe changing the shot wouldn't have been a good idea. Scum didn't know I was a suicide bomber doc. Still have to lynch him, though *shrugs*
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Boson and Keir I was with you all the time!!  Really I dont understand how that baddy did not get lynched xD
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Can someone link to a case that was made against VE? Because all I'm seeing is people vaguely alluding to him being "scummy" (I hate that word for this very reason)?
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On October 18 2012 14:35 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:29 DarthPunk wrote:On October 18 2012 14:27 HiroPro wrote:On October 18 2012 14:23 Risen wrote:
At the end of the day, I just really, really want everyone reading this, for the sake of my future sanity if I'm ever in games with you guys, to remember this lesson.
DON'T LYNCH THE COP OR MEDIC WHO HAS NO COUNTERCLAIM!
Alrighty, I'm done. Gg scum, gg BC. evaluate a claim on its circumstance and the play of the individual. otherwise you end up with situations like prplhz in NMM II riding to victory on an uncontested cop claim. Now the corollary is that no one should ever lynch a blue claim just because "I wouldn't claim like this". Exactly and the circumstances in this situation matched up perfectly with a VE fake claim. Added to the fact he survived 2 nights after he claimed which is incredibly risky scum play. It is not as black and white as Risen is making out to be IMO. No they did not. VE fake claiming to lead a lynch on kush made very little sense. Survival is not a strong indication of guilt. It is just something that should be considered. If people had carefully read VE's play in the beginning of the game and if they had looked at his play around the claim in relation to the way that he has claimed blue in other games, they should have realized that he was probably town. When BC flipped third party, people should have immediately disregarded what he had said before about VE's claim not making sense and instead focused only on BC's last post, which clearly indicated that he considered VE to be town.
Yes. I agree. But the point is that the situation wasn't so clear cut as for it to be unfathomable. If it was. He would never have been mislynched and town probably wins.
That being said, none of this would have happened without a clutch Kush frame. hehe.
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On October 18 2012 14:37 ShiaoPi wrote:Boson and Keir I was with you all the time!! Really I dont understand how that baddy did not get lynched xD
<3
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On October 18 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 18 2012 14:19 Keirathi wrote:On October 18 2012 14:17 Z-BosoN wrote:What you talking about, I tried lynching DP with all my might, but no one would listen  EDIT: you = keir  You still voted Matt over him Haha, I'll quote this sad sad post again: On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ I basically gave up when despite me writing 2 full cases, making extensive posts on him, and being insistent as fuck that he was scum, nobody seemed to find him scummy, not even you (you did so after I gave up, basically). So I just figured I was making a bad read and moved on Honestly it felt like you guys were just yelling back and forth at each other. Neither of you were convincing. I decided DP was scum because of the reasons he was pushing Kush the night after Hapa died, but I was more sure of slOosh. Then during the kush wagon and end of the night, I decided that he was even scummier than slOosh so I started pushing him. Then I brainfucked myself and was terrible.
Problem was, I actually engaged in the flame war. So people started reading it as: bleh just two townies fighting each other.
But dude, the comment he made regarding "me milking town cred" was in NO WAY townie.
Also, kush was obviously acting differently, yet DP didn't comment on that. In the other game, he actually unvoted the flammable scum kush as town, despite kush being scum.
This was a very VERY strong tell, because I know his meta, but DP flamed it away pretty nicely.
And then he used his own "trying to setup on a mislynch" argument against me, this was about the most WTF thing I had ever heard.
But again, people weren't taking me or him seriously and just dismissed it as two townies gnawing against each other and didn't bother reading much into it.
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On October 18 2012 14:38 syllogism wrote:
Can someone link to a case that was made against VE? Because all I'm seeing is people vaguely alluding to him being "scummy" (I hate that word for this very reason)?
I will go one further. Can anyone link me to an actual case against the two people who were lynched the final two days?
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@syllogism
from this exchange I started viewing him as scum:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=134#2672
my main problem is that I overestimated VE (no offense, it's because you coached me in my first game so I naturally had too high of expectations). He actually knew my scum meta and I couldn't fathom him still thinking I was scum despite everything due to that day one Node thing. Also, Kreb was like my biggest town read, and I also couldn't fathom him thinking that he was scum for the reasons he gave.
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Wow SloOsh, didnt move that one night mementoss watched. Pretty gosu scum desicion making. The NKs were actually amazing early game by scum, compared to blue actions.
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On October 18 2012 14:40 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:On October 18 2012 14:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 18 2012 14:19 Keirathi wrote:On October 18 2012 14:17 Z-BosoN wrote:What you talking about, I tried lynching DP with all my might, but no one would listen EDIT: you = keir You still voted Matt over him Haha, I'll quote this sad sad post again: On October 14 2012 08:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP is my top scumread, I've been trying to push him since forever, but no one seems to find him scummy, so =/ I basically gave up when despite me writing 2 full cases, making extensive posts on him, and being insistent as fuck that he was scum, nobody seemed to find him scummy, not even you (you did so after I gave up, basically). So I just figured I was making a bad read and moved on Honestly it felt like you guys were just yelling back and forth at each other. Neither of you were convincing. I decided DP was scum because of the reasons he was pushing Kush the night after Hapa died, but I was more sure of slOosh. Then during the kush wagon and end of the night, I decided that he was even scummier than slOosh so I started pushing him. Then I brainfucked myself and was terrible. Problem was, I actually engaged in the flame war. So people started reading it as: bleh just two townies fighting each other. But dude, the comment he made regarding "me milking town cred" was in NO WAY townie. Also, kush was obviously acting differently, yet DP didn't comment on that. In the other game, he actually unvoted the flammable scum kush as town, despite kush being scum. This was a very VERY strong tell, because I know his meta, but DP flamed it away pretty nicely. And then he used his own "trying to setup on a mislynch" argument against me, this was about the most WTF thing I had ever heard. But again, people weren't taking me or him seriously and just dismissed it as two townies gnawing against each other and didn't bother reading much into it.
That was so much fun. When Perfection came in and voted for you at the end I lol'd.
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If anyone is expecting some analysis btw, they should just write it themselves or read on their own again. I don't have the time to write anything big like that.
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On October 18 2012 14:44 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Wow SloOsh, didnt move that one night mementoss watched. Pretty gosu scum desicion making. The NKs were actually amazing early game by scum, compared to blue actions.
Mementoss was a watcher, not a tracker.
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On October 18 2012 14:44 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Wow SloOsh, didnt move that one night mementoss watched. Pretty gosu scum desicion making. The NKs were actually amazing early game by scum, compared to blue actions.
?
Blues outed two scum n1 and n2. I don't know how you think blues didn't do very well early on.
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Im sorrry Boson, but I had a hard time getting over you're posting style this game. Day 4 and 5 was pure setup speculation which gets nowhere as town. Despite what you may think about setup speculation, it seems less helpful in thread from a townie perspective.
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Why were people thinking I was scum in the obsQT?
Was is that Node thing?
EDIT lol bke, nice snipe.
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Our searching roles didnt do well, our meds did great, I thought that was universally known.
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EPT
