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On March 27 2012 03:05 Alderan wrote:
@Mattchew- You seem to think that Risen my actually be DT. Is that accurate, and if so who would you rather vote for? Currently your vote is still on Risen...
If risen is detective, he is either dead or roleblocked tonight anyway. My hope is that we can actually get a 1 for 1 out of this situation, and the only way to do this is flip both risen and acro. Right now im voting Risen because I don't want any scum picked candidate being lynched.
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On March 27 2012 03:06 Zealos wrote:
Oh, and the only argument against me is that I am voting and making a case against him. If anyone can show me anything he's done right, he might have some kind of defense.
On March 26 2012 04:22 Mattchew wrote:
for the most part it sounds like people are saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do that as DT" or "he must be an idiot to do that as DT" or "This way of playing DT doesn't help town"
2 of these say nothing about alignment. playing stupid or different from how you would play it dont mean scum. and there are a ton of examples of townies playing in a not pro-town manner.
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That post was... incredibly irrelevant? I'm saying as anything, whether or not he is DT, what has he done pro-town?
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On March 27 2012 03:04 Zealos wrote:Aha, this is where it gets good, and if you'd had read the thread properly, you'd see I had pretty sound reasoning for this:
Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:On March 24 2012 07:21 Acrofales wrote:On March 24 2012 07:15 GreYMisT wrote:On March 24 2012 07:10 Acrofales wrote:
Lol. Are we seriously putting our lynch in the hands of either mafia or littlefinger?! This is really retarded. However, I have no idea where to put my vote. My earlier reads were Mattchew, Gumshoe and Zealos. Nobody else seems to want to vote for them, although for the life of me I don't know why not.
I guess I could add Evantrees to my lynch targets, if we're going to policy lynch a hardcore lurker. Another option is to lynch Nicolas. Chaoser said he'll probably be modkilled anyway?
Anything seems better than leaving it so that a mobster switches before the end with some bullshit excuse and we mislynch a townie due to derp. Or WBG jumps and we can't even retaliate by vig shotting him. You "Guess you could add Evantrees to your lynch targets?" What the crap? This entire post is just asking other people to make decisions for you. Don't read shit into it that's not there. I don't want to policy-lynch, I want to lynch Mattchew, but that is clearly not going to happen. Rather than wasting my vote there and having whoever the fuck wants switch at the last second to mislynch a useful townie, I'd rather policy-lynch a lurker or someone who's going to get modkilled. I chose the modkilled. Now stop confusing shit more than it is already and consolidate your own vote somewhere useful, or make a better case against Oberyn, because so far it has been: he's useless. He is a lot LESS useless than Evantrees or Nicolas, so if that's your criteria, your vote's in the wrong place. I'm almost positive Acro is scum, and Mattchew needs to be checked tonight. VOTE ACROFALES Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 23:08 Risen wrote:On March 23 2012 21:11 Mattchew wrote:
lol coming from littlefinger i dont suspect it will hold much weight Unfortunately it does not, we don't know his sanity. If someone were to check you tonight and confirm then maybe it would. Why on earth if he said this, and he was DT, didn't he check Mattchew last night? It makes no sense whatsoever, instead he claims he checked Acro, and backed up his argument by saying he thought a rolechecker should check Mattchew (derp)
Once again, if you are DT and you think someone is scum you check them. You always confirm them. He could have checked me the next night.
-You're argument "He did the wrong thing"
Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 07:32 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention even if there was a rolechecker it is a flawed argument, as summed up here by chaoser:
This isn't a good excuse even IF rolechecker WAS a role. Why would you take a risk and depend on someone else to do your job? Why not do it yourself? That doesn't even make any sense. That's like saying, I want to check this guy, but oh well, I won't. I'll check this other guy that I already am sure is mafia and hope that 1) someone else checks the guy I want to know about and 2) they then out themselves somehow to give us that information. WTF?
##vote: risen Most of this argument is explained in easy to understand terms by WBG: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 06:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On March 26 2012 06:34 Risen wrote:
I'm done for a while. Can't keep arguing in circles. I think my logic is clear, you don't. It's over. herp derp I wanted a rolechecker to check Mattchew herp derp without even checking that there was a rolechecker herp derp my logic makes sense no matter what you say herp derp despite the fact that you just showed it's complete shit herp derp herp Sounds more like, "before I had the foresight to plan a DT claim I tried directing DTs into Mattchew and now I'm grasping at straws trying to make the statement make sense in retrospect"
The rolechecker thing is the only thing I don't understand. The desperation of explaining himself is a little scummy. Also, for giggles
On March 22 2012 03:29 Zealos wrote:
On the topic of Wherebugsgo, I'd love to completely ignore him if possible, though I doubt that will end up happening....
On top of which, he completely avoids answering my direct question: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 06:12 Zealos wrote:
Even if you flipped DT, there is no reason that puts me into a scum position. You are just using threats as an attempt to stop me from pressing my case. Give us a good reason to believe you're DT, before I roleclaim as Godfather and claim you're one of my mafia buddies, as your reasoning is that roleclaims are always truthful. Not to mention calling me and others scum with very very little to no evidence to back up his claims: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 05:29 Risen wrote:On March 26 2012 05:21 Zealos wrote:
Risen first, when he inevitably flips vanilla scum we can move on. EBWOP: And he solidifies his "really dumb townie" position well here (If I didn't make it clear in my previous post I think he's scum, I think Mattchew is scum, and I think Greymist is scum). He'll OMGUS me once I'm lynched and be in the clear. He deserves looking into tonight, imo. The only argument he's made against anyone is the whole "I'm DT, lynch Acro" Doesn't this smack you as mindbogglingly stupid? Risen is the lynch we should make today, with absolutely no exceptions, he is super scummy.
This all reads "I'm mad."
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On March 27 2012 03:23 Zealos wrote:
That post was... incredibly irrelevant? I'm saying as anything, whether or not he is DT, what has he done pro-town?
lynching a townie is always bad. whether or not he is "pro-town"
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On March 27 2012 03:16 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 03:05 Alderan wrote:
@Mattchew- You seem to think that Risen my actually be DT. Is that accurate, and if so who would you rather vote for? Currently your vote is still on Risen...
If risen is detective, he is either dead or roleblocked tonight anyway. My hope is that we can actually get a 1 for 1 out of this situation, and the only way to do this is flip both risen and acro. Right now im voting Risen because I don't want any scum picked candidate being lynched.
Ok that makes sense, I must have missed where that was being discussed.
The only wrench in that plan is if he flips vanilla townie, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Where the fuck have gumshoe and lyter been?
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On March 27 2012 02:27 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 01:36 Acrofales wrote:
GUMSHOE: WHERE ARE YOU? I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. What do you think about that?
Remember when i did this to you and you called me scum? atleast mine was early day 1
Yeah, I overreacted. Overall that seems to be the only part of day 1 where any useful information was gathered at all, with people like MrZentor, Zealos and SLJ chipping in to have their say.
Another difference is that Gumshoe is currently my second-most-favourite lynch after Risen. It'd be great to get more information for the day 3 lynch.
Just to be clear, you're still not off the hook and I find your reasoning today exceedingly suspicious. I just think there are better targets to focus on for the moment.
Even so, it can't really hurt to show how your reasoning is just really suspicious. At the very least it'll further the discussion and allow me to decide whether you're actually scum or not. Your reasoning is pretty much explained here:
On March 26 2012 04:22 Mattchew wrote:
can someone tell me why we would want to take a risk of lynching the guy who claims dt first?
for the most part it sounds like people are saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do that as DT" or "he must be an idiot to do that as DT" or "This way of playing DT doesn't help town"
2 of these say nothing about alignment. playing stupid or different from how you would play it dont mean scum. and there are a ton of examples of townies playing in a not pro-town manner.
If we flip acro first and he flips scum or miller, we save the life of a townie and save a lynch.
if we flip acro first and he flips town, we get to see what happens to risen at night, and then lynch him.
if we flip risen first and he flips scum, we don't learn anything about acro BUT HURRAY WE LYNCH SCUM
if we flip risen first and hes town DT, we waste a lynch on a confirmable townie, and acro gets lynched the next day
I feel it is a lot safer to lynch acro first
You seem to have the four cases pretty clear. However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence. I haven't seen anybody make a case against me lately. The only evidence being taken into account seems to be Risen's DT check. Apparently, for you, a DT claim is automatically enough reason to disregard all other posts by said person, OR the one he claims on, and say that he should not be lynched because he DT claimed. Wow, if I ever play a mobster I will keep that in mind!
Now lets look at the rest of the evidence:
Risen
Risen has been playing exceedingly erratically. I initially had a town read on him (as you can see if you go through my posts), although I found his analysis exceedingly weak (once again, in my posts). He then suddenly panicked at WBG's supposed kill power + Show Spoiler [pointless WBG speculation] +Littlefinger does not like to get his own hands dirty and a kill power does not fit the lore at all.
Given his insistance that I was scum from almost the start of the game, this caused me to post the pages of refutals of his analysis, as I thought he had been crumbing vigilante, not DT. At this point I still believed him, although I was both angry enough and thought he was playing terribly enough that I should vote for him on basic principle (also in my night posts).
The next morning he roleclaimed DT in an exceedingly vague and dumb manner. He claimed DT without stating his actual role name, he never crumbed DT OR his rolename beforehand and he completely ignored any possibility of me being framed or a miller and continued throughout the morning to ignore any such possibilities.
In addition to his ballsup of a DT claim, his only somewhat useful contribution to this game has been to spam a full page of really bad analysis.
Acro
I am awesome and a contributing townie. Someone should make a proper case against me if they have one that is not based on all this WIFOM around Risen's DT check.
Now, given the evidence, we have to consider PROBABILITIES of each of the four cases and then things change drastically. We can lynch me, confirmed townie, based on a somewhat decent plot by a scumster (or, I'll grant him the inkling of doubt I don't really have: an incredibly shitty DT). Or we can lynch a mobster (with a tiny tiny chance that he is actually an incredibly shitty DT).
And that is why I think your reasoning is suspect. If there was no prior knowledge then you would be right, but you are reasoning as if the DT check is the only information you have.
To be completely honest, I have no clue what way you lean at the moment. Day 1 I could've sworn you were scum. Night 1 you seemed to be playing townie and Day 2 you're back to looking scummy. I can't read you at the moment, but given that I have two reads I am far more confident in I don't mind too much. If both Risen and Gumshoe flip red, then I am quite sure you are too.
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On March 27 2012 03:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 02:27 Mattchew wrote:On March 27 2012 01:36 Acrofales wrote:
GUMSHOE: WHERE ARE YOU? I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. What do you think about that?
Remember when i did this to you and you called me scum? atleast mine was early day 1 Yeah, I overreacted. Overall that seems to be the only part of day 1 where any useful information was gathered at all, with people like MrZentor, Zealos and SLJ chipping in to have their say. Another difference is that Gumshoe is currently my second-most-favourite lynch after Risen. It'd be great to get more information for the day 3 lynch. Just to be clear, you're still not off the hook and I find your reasoning today exceedingly suspicious. I just think there are better targets to focus on for the moment. Even so, it can't really hurt to show how your reasoning is just really suspicious. At the very least it'll further the discussion and allow me to decide whether you're actually scum or not. Your reasoning is pretty much explained here: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 04:22 Mattchew wrote:
can someone tell me why we would want to take a risk of lynching the guy who claims dt first?
for the most part it sounds like people are saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do that as DT" or "he must be an idiot to do that as DT" or "This way of playing DT doesn't help town"
2 of these say nothing about alignment. playing stupid or different from how you would play it dont mean scum. and there are a ton of examples of townies playing in a not pro-town manner.
If we flip acro first and he flips scum or miller, we save the life of a townie and save a lynch.
if we flip acro first and he flips town, we get to see what happens to risen at night, and then lynch him.
if we flip risen first and he flips scum, we don't learn anything about acro BUT HURRAY WE LYNCH SCUM
if we flip risen first and hes town DT, we waste a lynch on a confirmable townie, and acro gets lynched the next day
I feel it is a lot safer to lynch acro first You seem to have the four cases pretty clear. However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence. I haven't seen anybody make a case against me lately. The only evidence being taken into account seems to be Risen's DT check. Apparently, for you, a DT claim is automatically enough reason to disregard all other posts by said person, OR the one he claims on, and say that he should not be lynched because he DT claimed. Wow, if I ever play a mobster I will keep that in mind! Now lets look at the rest of the evidence: RisenRisen has been playing exceedingly erratically. I initially had a town read on him (as you can see if you go through my posts), although I found his analysis exceedingly weak (once again, in my posts). He then suddenly panicked at WBG's supposed kill power + Show Spoiler [pointless WBG speculation] +Littlefinger does not like to get his own hands dirty and a kill power does not fit the lore at all. . Given his insistance that I was scum from almost the start of the game, this caused me to post the pages of refutals of his analysis, as I thought he had been crumbing vigilante, not DT. At this point I still believed him, although I was both angry enough and thought he was playing terribly enough that I should vote for him on basic principle (also in my night posts). The next morning he roleclaimed DT in an exceedingly vague and dumb manner. He claimed DT without stating his actual role name, he never crumbed DT OR his rolename beforehand and he completely ignored any possibility of me being framed or a miller and continued throughout the morning to ignore any such possibilities. In addition to his ballsup of a DT claim, his only somewhat useful contribution to this game has been to spam a full page of really bad analysis. AcroI am awesome and a contributing townie. Someone should make a proper case against me if they have one that is not based on all this WIFOM around Risen's DT check. Now, given the evidence, we have to consider PROBABILITIES of each of the four cases and then things change drastically. We can lynch me, confirmed townie, based on a somewhat decent plot by a scumster (or, I'll grant him the inkling of doubt I don't really have: an incredibly shitty DT). Or we can lynch a mobster (with a tiny tiny chance that he is actually an incredibly shitty DT). And that is why I think your reasoning is suspect. If there was no prior knowledge then you would be right, but you are reasoning as if the DT check is the only information you have. To be completely honest, I have no clue what way you lean at the moment. Day 1 I could've sworn you were scum. Night 1 you seemed to be playing townie and Day 2 you're back to looking scummy. I can't read you at the moment, but given that I have two reads I am far more confident in I don't mind too much. If both Risen and Gumshoe flip red, then I am quite sure you are too.
"However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence." I am. If asked before all this shit, I would have said that I have a town read on both of you. After this shit, I still see no case against either of you that holds any weight, however it does appear to me as if 1 of you is scum and 1 of you is town. That is why my logic has no outside factors involved with the decision making process.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2012 03:04 Zealos wrote:Aha, this is where it gets good, and if you'd had read the thread properly, you'd see I had pretty sound reasoning for this:
Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:On March 24 2012 07:21 Acrofales wrote:On March 24 2012 07:15 GreYMisT wrote:On March 24 2012 07:10 Acrofales wrote:
Lol. Are we seriously putting our lynch in the hands of either mafia or littlefinger?! This is really retarded. However, I have no idea where to put my vote. My earlier reads were Mattchew, Gumshoe and Zealos. Nobody else seems to want to vote for them, although for the life of me I don't know why not.
I guess I could add Evantrees to my lynch targets, if we're going to policy lynch a hardcore lurker. Another option is to lynch Nicolas. Chaoser said he'll probably be modkilled anyway?
Anything seems better than leaving it so that a mobster switches before the end with some bullshit excuse and we mislynch a townie due to derp. Or WBG jumps and we can't even retaliate by vig shotting him. You "Guess you could add Evantrees to your lynch targets?" What the crap? This entire post is just asking other people to make decisions for you. Don't read shit into it that's not there. I don't want to policy-lynch, I want to lynch Mattchew, but that is clearly not going to happen. Rather than wasting my vote there and having whoever the fuck wants switch at the last second to mislynch a useful townie, I'd rather policy-lynch a lurker or someone who's going to get modkilled. I chose the modkilled. Now stop confusing shit more than it is already and consolidate your own vote somewhere useful, or make a better case against Oberyn, because so far it has been: he's useless. He is a lot LESS useless than Evantrees or Nicolas, so if that's your criteria, your vote's in the wrong place. I'm almost positive Acro is scum, and Mattchew needs to be checked tonight. VOTE ACROFALES Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 23:08 Risen wrote:On March 23 2012 21:11 Mattchew wrote:
lol coming from littlefinger i dont suspect it will hold much weight Unfortunately it does not, we don't know his sanity. If someone were to check you tonight and confirm then maybe it would. Why on earth if he said this, and he was DT, didn't he check Mattchew last night? It makes no sense whatsoever, instead he claims he checked Acro, and backed up his argument by saying he thought a rolechecker should check Mattchew (derp) Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 07:32 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention even if there was a rolechecker it is a flawed argument, as summed up here by chaoser:
This isn't a good excuse even IF rolechecker WAS a role. Why would you take a risk and depend on someone else to do your job? Why not do it yourself? That doesn't even make any sense. That's like saying, I want to check this guy, but oh well, I won't. I'll check this other guy that I already am sure is mafia and hope that 1) someone else checks the guy I want to know about and 2) they then out themselves somehow to give us that information. WTF?
##vote: risen Most of this argument is explained in easy to understand terms by WBG: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 06:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On March 26 2012 06:34 Risen wrote:
I'm done for a while. Can't keep arguing in circles. I think my logic is clear, you don't. It's over. herp derp I wanted a rolechecker to check Mattchew herp derp without even checking that there was a rolechecker herp derp my logic makes sense no matter what you say herp derp despite the fact that you just showed it's complete shit herp derp herp Sounds more like, "before I had the foresight to plan a DT claim I tried directing DTs into Mattchew and now I'm grasping at straws trying to make the statement make sense in retrospect" On top of which, he completely avoids answering my direct question: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 06:12 Zealos wrote:
Even if you flipped DT, there is no reason that puts me into a scum position. You are just using threats as an attempt to stop me from pressing my case. Give us a good reason to believe you're DT, before I roleclaim as Godfather and claim you're one of my mafia buddies, as your reasoning is that roleclaims are always truthful. Not to mention calling me and others scum with very very little to no evidence to back up his claims: Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 05:29 Risen wrote:On March 26 2012 05:21 Zealos wrote:
Risen first, when he inevitably flips vanilla scum we can move on. EBWOP: And he solidifies his "really dumb townie" position well here (If I didn't make it clear in my previous post I think he's scum, I think Mattchew is scum, and I think Greymist is scum). He'll OMGUS me once I'm lynched and be in the clear. He deserves looking into tonight, imo. The only argument he's made against anyone is the whole "I'm DT, lynch Acro" Doesn't this smack you as mindbogglingly stupid? Risen is the lynch we should make today, with absolutely no exceptions, he is super scummy.
I'd really like Risen to respond to this. I have a thought but I don't want to say anything prior to his response.
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On March 27 2012 03:30 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 03:16 Mattchew wrote:On March 27 2012 03:05 Alderan wrote:
@Mattchew- You seem to think that Risen my actually be DT. Is that accurate, and if so who would you rather vote for? Currently your vote is still on Risen...
If risen is detective, he is either dead or roleblocked tonight anyway. My hope is that we can actually get a 1 for 1 out of this situation, and the only way to do this is flip both risen and acro. Right now im voting Risen because I don't want any scum picked candidate being lynched. Ok that makes sense, I must have missed where that was being discussed. The only wrench in that plan is if he flips vanilla townie, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Where the fuck have gumshoe and lyter been?
Ald with this post I would lynch you off meta in a heartbeat. You are blending in being agreeable but looking like you are helping to create content just like the last time we played together. I think that you are a better scum hunter then what you have shown thus far. Who are your scum reads (outside the risen/acro debacle) and why?
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Alderan, could you please answer this.
On March 26 2012 10:19 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 09:47 Alderan wrote:
Been running around like a chicken with my head cut off today with work.
I have a couple more hours to tie up some loose ends and I'll catch up on the past 5 pages. I think you're scum. How do you feel about that?
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Do I need to remind anyone who Acrofales felt was the best lynch on day one? It was the guy who was getting modkilled :/
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On March 27 2012 03:26 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 03:04 Zealos wrote:Aha, this is where it gets good, and if you'd had read the thread properly, you'd see I had pretty sound reasoning for this:
On March 24 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:On March 24 2012 07:21 Acrofales wrote:On March 24 2012 07:15 GreYMisT wrote:On March 24 2012 07:10 Acrofales wrote:
Lol. Are we seriously putting our lynch in the hands of either mafia or littlefinger?! This is really retarded. However, I have no idea where to put my vote. My earlier reads were Mattchew, Gumshoe and Zealos. Nobody else seems to want to vote for them, although for the life of me I don't know why not.
I guess I could add Evantrees to my lynch targets, if we're going to policy lynch a hardcore lurker. Another option is to lynch Nicolas. Chaoser said he'll probably be modkilled anyway?
Anything seems better than leaving it so that a mobster switches before the end with some bullshit excuse and we mislynch a townie due to derp. Or WBG jumps and we can't even retaliate by vig shotting him. You "Guess you could add Evantrees to your lynch targets?" What the crap? This entire post is just asking other people to make decisions for you. Don't read shit into it that's not there. I don't want to policy-lynch, I want to lynch Mattchew, but that is clearly not going to happen. Rather than wasting my vote there and having whoever the fuck wants switch at the last second to mislynch a useful townie, I'd rather policy-lynch a lurker or someone who's going to get modkilled. I chose the modkilled. Now stop confusing shit more than it is already and consolidate your own vote somewhere useful, or make a better case against Oberyn, because so far it has been: he's useless. He is a lot LESS useless than Evantrees or Nicolas, so if that's your criteria, your vote's in the wrong place. I'm almost positive Acro is scum, and Mattchew needs to be checked tonight. VOTE ACROFALES On March 23 2012 23:08 Risen wrote:On March 23 2012 21:11 Mattchew wrote:
lol coming from littlefinger i dont suspect it will hold much weight Unfortunately it does not, we don't know his sanity. If someone were to check you tonight and confirm then maybe it would. Why on earth if he said this, and he was DT, didn't he check Mattchew last night? It makes no sense whatsoever, instead he claims he checked Acro, and backed up his argument by saying he thought a rolechecker should check Mattchew (derp) Once again, if you are DT and you think someone is scum you check them. You always confirm them. He could have checked me the next night. -You're argument "He did the wrong thing" Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 07:32 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention even if there was a rolechecker it is a flawed argument, as summed up here by chaoser:
This isn't a good excuse even IF rolechecker WAS a role. Why would you take a risk and depend on someone else to do your job? Why not do it yourself? That doesn't even make any sense. That's like saying, I want to check this guy, but oh well, I won't. I'll check this other guy that I already am sure is mafia and hope that 1) someone else checks the guy I want to know about and 2) they then out themselves somehow to give us that information. WTF?
##vote: risen Most of this argument is explained in easy to understand terms by WBG: On March 26 2012 06:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On March 26 2012 06:34 Risen wrote:
I'm done for a while. Can't keep arguing in circles. I think my logic is clear, you don't. It's over. herp derp I wanted a rolechecker to check Mattchew herp derp without even checking that there was a rolechecker herp derp my logic makes sense no matter what you say herp derp despite the fact that you just showed it's complete shit herp derp herp Sounds more like, "before I had the foresight to plan a DT claim I tried directing DTs into Mattchew and now I'm grasping at straws trying to make the statement make sense in retrospect" The rolechecker thing is the only thing I don't understand. The desperation of explaining himself is a little scummy. Also, for giggles Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:29 Zealos wrote:
On the topic of Wherebugsgo, I'd love to completely ignore him if possible, though I doubt that will end up happening.... Show nested quote +On top of which, he completely avoids answering my direct question: On March 26 2012 06:12 Zealos wrote:
Even if you flipped DT, there is no reason that puts me into a scum position. You are just using threats as an attempt to stop me from pressing my case. Give us a good reason to believe you're DT, before I roleclaim as Godfather and claim you're one of my mafia buddies, as your reasoning is that roleclaims are always truthful. Not to mention calling me and others scum with very very little to no evidence to back up his claims: On March 26 2012 05:29 Risen wrote:On March 26 2012 05:21 Zealos wrote:
Risen first, when he inevitably flips vanilla scum we can move on. EBWOP: And he solidifies his "really dumb townie" position well here (If I didn't make it clear in my previous post I think he's scum, I think Mattchew is scum, and I think Greymist is scum). He'll OMGUS me once I'm lynched and be in the clear. He deserves looking into tonight, imo. The only argument he's made against anyone is the whole "I'm DT, lynch Acro" Doesn't this smack you as mindbogglingly stupid? Risen is the lynch we should make today, with absolutely no exceptions, he is super scummy. This all reads "I'm mad."
It all it reads is "I'm mad" then you clearly need to read better. What reasoning do we have to believe he is DT?
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On March 27 2012 03:47 MrZentor wrote:Alderan, could you please answer this. Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 10:19 MrZentor wrote:On March 26 2012 09:47 Alderan wrote:
Been running around like a chicken with my head cut off today with work.
I have a couple more hours to tie up some loose ends and I'll catch up on the past 5 pages. I think you're scum. How do you feel about that?
you have to be joking
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On March 27 2012 03:50 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 03:26 Mattchew wrote:On March 27 2012 03:04 Zealos wrote:Aha, this is where it gets good, and if you'd had read the thread properly, you'd see I had pretty sound reasoning for this:
On March 24 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:On March 24 2012 07:21 Acrofales wrote:On March 24 2012 07:15 GreYMisT wrote:On March 24 2012 07:10 Acrofales wrote:
Lol. Are we seriously putting our lynch in the hands of either mafia or littlefinger?! This is really retarded. However, I have no idea where to put my vote. My earlier reads were Mattchew, Gumshoe and Zealos. Nobody else seems to want to vote for them, although for the life of me I don't know why not.
I guess I could add Evantrees to my lynch targets, if we're going to policy lynch a hardcore lurker. Another option is to lynch Nicolas. Chaoser said he'll probably be modkilled anyway?
Anything seems better than leaving it so that a mobster switches before the end with some bullshit excuse and we mislynch a townie due to derp. Or WBG jumps and we can't even retaliate by vig shotting him. You "Guess you could add Evantrees to your lynch targets?" What the crap? This entire post is just asking other people to make decisions for you. Don't read shit into it that's not there. I don't want to policy-lynch, I want to lynch Mattchew, but that is clearly not going to happen. Rather than wasting my vote there and having whoever the fuck wants switch at the last second to mislynch a useful townie, I'd rather policy-lynch a lurker or someone who's going to get modkilled. I chose the modkilled. Now stop confusing shit more than it is already and consolidate your own vote somewhere useful, or make a better case against Oberyn, because so far it has been: he's useless. He is a lot LESS useless than Evantrees or Nicolas, so if that's your criteria, your vote's in the wrong place. I'm almost positive Acro is scum, and Mattchew needs to be checked tonight. VOTE ACROFALES On March 23 2012 23:08 Risen wrote:On March 23 2012 21:11 Mattchew wrote:
lol coming from littlefinger i dont suspect it will hold much weight Unfortunately it does not, we don't know his sanity. If someone were to check you tonight and confirm then maybe it would. Why on earth if he said this, and he was DT, didn't he check Mattchew last night? It makes no sense whatsoever, instead he claims he checked Acro, and backed up his argument by saying he thought a rolechecker should check Mattchew (derp) Once again, if you are DT and you think someone is scum you check them. You always confirm them. He could have checked me the next night. -You're argument "He did the wrong thing" On March 26 2012 07:32 chaoser wrote:
Not to mention even if there was a rolechecker it is a flawed argument, as summed up here by chaoser:
This isn't a good excuse even IF rolechecker WAS a role. Why would you take a risk and depend on someone else to do your job? Why not do it yourself? That doesn't even make any sense. That's like saying, I want to check this guy, but oh well, I won't. I'll check this other guy that I already am sure is mafia and hope that 1) someone else checks the guy I want to know about and 2) they then out themselves somehow to give us that information. WTF?
##vote: risen Most of this argument is explained in easy to understand terms by WBG: On March 26 2012 06:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On March 26 2012 06:34 Risen wrote:
I'm done for a while. Can't keep arguing in circles. I think my logic is clear, you don't. It's over. herp derp I wanted a rolechecker to check Mattchew herp derp without even checking that there was a rolechecker herp derp my logic makes sense no matter what you say herp derp despite the fact that you just showed it's complete shit herp derp herp Sounds more like, "before I had the foresight to plan a DT claim I tried directing DTs into Mattchew and now I'm grasping at straws trying to make the statement make sense in retrospect" The rolechecker thing is the only thing I don't understand. The desperation of explaining himself is a little scummy. Also, for giggles On March 22 2012 03:29 Zealos wrote:
On the topic of Wherebugsgo, I'd love to completely ignore him if possible, though I doubt that will end up happening.... On top of which, he completely avoids answering my direct question: On March 26 2012 06:12 Zealos wrote:
Even if you flipped DT, there is no reason that puts me into a scum position. You are just using threats as an attempt to stop me from pressing my case. Give us a good reason to believe you're DT, before I roleclaim as Godfather and claim you're one of my mafia buddies, as your reasoning is that roleclaims are always truthful. Not to mention calling me and others scum with very very little to no evidence to back up his claims: On March 26 2012 05:29 Risen wrote:On March 26 2012 05:21 Zealos wrote:
Risen first, when he inevitably flips vanilla scum we can move on. EBWOP: And he solidifies his "really dumb townie" position well here (If I didn't make it clear in my previous post I think he's scum, I think Mattchew is scum, and I think Greymist is scum). He'll OMGUS me once I'm lynched and be in the clear. He deserves looking into tonight, imo. The only argument he's made against anyone is the whole "I'm DT, lynch Acro" Doesn't this smack you as mindbogglingly stupid? Risen is the lynch we should make today, with absolutely no exceptions, he is super scummy.This all reads "I'm mad." It all it reads is "I'm mad" then you clearly need to read better. What reasoning do we have to believe he is DT?
i like how you take 1 line out of the post and only respond to that in a trivial way. If you have a town read on someone (as i did/kinda do) and they claim something, I believe them until counterclaimed or proven wrong. The only reason I am voting risen is because he is slightly more scummy than acro to me.
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On March 27 2012 02:38 Mattchew wrote:lol and how do you know that he is lying? (do you see where i am going with this)
Could you please wifom that for me again. I couldn't hear you above all the wifom you're wifoming.
I may be new at this game, but I'm pretty good at logics (I did just hand in my PhD on AI after all). So let me logic it out for you.
In order to decide whether you should actually believe the claim that "Acro showed red" made by Risen, that is the only information you should not take into account.
You should go through his filter and look at his history and disregard who he's pointing a finger at. Then, if you decide that, yes, Risen is a credible DT, you should believe that he read "Acro is red".
This, btw, is entirely independent of whom you think the best lynch target is. It is just more evidence. Based on all the evidence in the thread, you should then decide who is most likely to be scum. You should then post your evidence, and vote for that person, not just sheeple Risen because he will be killed by mobs at night regardless.
For the record, I have posted my findings a number of times here. Risen is scum.
I think you have homework to do (unless you're mafia, in which case you should continue to confuse and confound everybody and keep wifoming about Risen's DT claim).
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On March 27 2012 03:34 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 03:30 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2012 02:27 Mattchew wrote:On March 27 2012 01:36 Acrofales wrote:
GUMSHOE: WHERE ARE YOU? I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. What do you think about that?
Remember when i did this to you and you called me scum? atleast mine was early day 1 Yeah, I overreacted. Overall that seems to be the only part of day 1 where any useful information was gathered at all, with people like MrZentor, Zealos and SLJ chipping in to have their say. Another difference is that Gumshoe is currently my second-most-favourite lynch after Risen. It'd be great to get more information for the day 3 lynch. Just to be clear, you're still not off the hook and I find your reasoning today exceedingly suspicious. I just think there are better targets to focus on for the moment. Even so, it can't really hurt to show how your reasoning is just really suspicious. At the very least it'll further the discussion and allow me to decide whether you're actually scum or not. Your reasoning is pretty much explained here: On March 26 2012 04:22 Mattchew wrote:
can someone tell me why we would want to take a risk of lynching the guy who claims dt first?
for the most part it sounds like people are saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do that as DT" or "he must be an idiot to do that as DT" or "This way of playing DT doesn't help town"
2 of these say nothing about alignment. playing stupid or different from how you would play it dont mean scum. and there are a ton of examples of townies playing in a not pro-town manner.
If we flip acro first and he flips scum or miller, we save the life of a townie and save a lynch.
if we flip acro first and he flips town, we get to see what happens to risen at night, and then lynch him.
if we flip risen first and he flips scum, we don't learn anything about acro BUT HURRAY WE LYNCH SCUM
if we flip risen first and hes town DT, we waste a lynch on a confirmable townie, and acro gets lynched the next day
I feel it is a lot safer to lynch acro first You seem to have the four cases pretty clear. However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence. I haven't seen anybody make a case against me lately. The only evidence being taken into account seems to be Risen's DT check. Apparently, for you, a DT claim is automatically enough reason to disregard all other posts by said person, OR the one he claims on, and say that he should not be lynched because he DT claimed. Wow, if I ever play a mobster I will keep that in mind! Now lets look at the rest of the evidence: RisenRisen has been playing exceedingly erratically. I initially had a town read on him (as you can see if you go through my posts), although I found his analysis exceedingly weak (once again, in my posts). He then suddenly panicked at WBG's supposed kill power + Show Spoiler [pointless WBG speculation] +Littlefinger does not like to get his own hands dirty and a kill power does not fit the lore at all. . Given his insistance that I was scum from almost the start of the game, this caused me to post the pages of refutals of his analysis, as I thought he had been crumbing vigilante, not DT. At this point I still believed him, although I was both angry enough and thought he was playing terribly enough that I should vote for him on basic principle (also in my night posts). The next morning he roleclaimed DT in an exceedingly vague and dumb manner. He claimed DT without stating his actual role name, he never crumbed DT OR his rolename beforehand and he completely ignored any possibility of me being framed or a miller and continued throughout the morning to ignore any such possibilities. In addition to his ballsup of a DT claim, his only somewhat useful contribution to this game has been to spam a full page of really bad analysis. AcroI am awesome and a contributing townie. Someone should make a proper case against me if they have one that is not based on all this WIFOM around Risen's DT check. Now, given the evidence, we have to consider PROBABILITIES of each of the four cases and then things change drastically. We can lynch me, confirmed townie, based on a somewhat decent plot by a scumster (or, I'll grant him the inkling of doubt I don't really have: an incredibly shitty DT). Or we can lynch a mobster (with a tiny tiny chance that he is actually an incredibly shitty DT). And that is why I think your reasoning is suspect. If there was no prior knowledge then you would be right, but you are reasoning as if the DT check is the only information you have. To be completely honest, I have no clue what way you lean at the moment. Day 1 I could've sworn you were scum. Night 1 you seemed to be playing townie and Day 2 you're back to looking scummy. I can't read you at the moment, but given that I have two reads I am far more confident in I don't mind too much. If both Risen and Gumshoe flip red, then I am quite sure you are too. "However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence." I am. If asked before all this shit, I would have said that I have a town read on both of you. After this shit, I still see no case against either of you that holds any weight, however it does appear to me as if 1 of you is scum and 1 of you is town. That is why my logic has no outside factors involved with the decision making process.
In that case you should be finding scum and building a case, not sheepling onto Risen. This is beyond stupid.
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On March 27 2012 03:54 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 03:34 Mattchew wrote:On March 27 2012 03:30 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2012 02:27 Mattchew wrote:On March 27 2012 01:36 Acrofales wrote:
GUMSHOE: WHERE ARE YOU? I THINK YOU'RE SCUM. What do you think about that?
Remember when i did this to you and you called me scum? atleast mine was early day 1 Yeah, I overreacted. Overall that seems to be the only part of day 1 where any useful information was gathered at all, with people like MrZentor, Zealos and SLJ chipping in to have their say. Another difference is that Gumshoe is currently my second-most-favourite lynch after Risen. It'd be great to get more information for the day 3 lynch. Just to be clear, you're still not off the hook and I find your reasoning today exceedingly suspicious. I just think there are better targets to focus on for the moment. Even so, it can't really hurt to show how your reasoning is just really suspicious. At the very least it'll further the discussion and allow me to decide whether you're actually scum or not. Your reasoning is pretty much explained here: On March 26 2012 04:22 Mattchew wrote:
can someone tell me why we would want to take a risk of lynching the guy who claims dt first?
for the most part it sounds like people are saying something along the lines of "i wouldn't do that as DT" or "he must be an idiot to do that as DT" or "This way of playing DT doesn't help town"
2 of these say nothing about alignment. playing stupid or different from how you would play it dont mean scum. and there are a ton of examples of townies playing in a not pro-town manner.
If we flip acro first and he flips scum or miller, we save the life of a townie and save a lynch.
if we flip acro first and he flips town, we get to see what happens to risen at night, and then lynch him.
if we flip risen first and he flips scum, we don't learn anything about acro BUT HURRAY WE LYNCH SCUM
if we flip risen first and hes town DT, we waste a lynch on a confirmable townie, and acro gets lynched the next day
I feel it is a lot safer to lynch acro first You seem to have the four cases pretty clear. However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence. I haven't seen anybody make a case against me lately. The only evidence being taken into account seems to be Risen's DT check. Apparently, for you, a DT claim is automatically enough reason to disregard all other posts by said person, OR the one he claims on, and say that he should not be lynched because he DT claimed. Wow, if I ever play a mobster I will keep that in mind! Now lets look at the rest of the evidence: RisenRisen has been playing exceedingly erratically. I initially had a town read on him (as you can see if you go through my posts), although I found his analysis exceedingly weak (once again, in my posts). He then suddenly panicked at WBG's supposed kill power + Show Spoiler [pointless WBG speculation] +Littlefinger does not like to get his own hands dirty and a kill power does not fit the lore at all. . Given his insistance that I was scum from almost the start of the game, this caused me to post the pages of refutals of his analysis, as I thought he had been crumbing vigilante, not DT. At this point I still believed him, although I was both angry enough and thought he was playing terribly enough that I should vote for him on basic principle (also in my night posts). The next morning he roleclaimed DT in an exceedingly vague and dumb manner. He claimed DT without stating his actual role name, he never crumbed DT OR his rolename beforehand and he completely ignored any possibility of me being framed or a miller and continued throughout the morning to ignore any such possibilities. In addition to his ballsup of a DT claim, his only somewhat useful contribution to this game has been to spam a full page of really bad analysis. AcroI am awesome and a contributing townie. Someone should make a proper case against me if they have one that is not based on all this WIFOM around Risen's DT check. Now, given the evidence, we have to consider PROBABILITIES of each of the four cases and then things change drastically. We can lynch me, confirmed townie, based on a somewhat decent plot by a scumster (or, I'll grant him the inkling of doubt I don't really have: an incredibly shitty DT). Or we can lynch a mobster (with a tiny tiny chance that he is actually an incredibly shitty DT). And that is why I think your reasoning is suspect. If there was no prior knowledge then you would be right, but you are reasoning as if the DT check is the only information you have. To be completely honest, I have no clue what way you lean at the moment. Day 1 I could've sworn you were scum. Night 1 you seemed to be playing townie and Day 2 you're back to looking scummy. I can't read you at the moment, but given that I have two reads I am far more confident in I don't mind too much. If both Risen and Gumshoe flip red, then I am quite sure you are too. "However you seem to be throwing away ALL other evidence." I am. If asked before all this shit, I would have said that I have a town read on both of you. After this shit, I still see no case against either of you that holds any weight, however it does appear to me as if 1 of you is scum and 1 of you is town. That is why my logic has no outside factors involved with the decision making process. In that case you should be finding scum and building a case, not sheepling onto Risen. This is beyond stupid.
As I have said before, again and again, I believe this is a 1 for 1 situation which is good for town. I am not sheeping anyone
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Ok, I was going to wait until tomorrow, however, his most recent post just tipped me over the edge.
Mattchew is the 2nd mafia, and my lynch choice for tomorrow.
He very rarely makes useful posts, and right from the start has posted a ton of spam and filler.
Examples:
On March 22 2012 00:25 Mattchew wrote:
lolololololol
im going to assume this is sandroba?
oh so your his scum teammate?
explain to me why you are not scum.
you have 90 minutes
where you at homeslice and why should i think you are not scum
wut?
OMG 5 WHOLE POSTS ABOUT HIM 3 OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN SERIOUS? NO WAYYYYY
wbg you know better than that, I thought you wanted to help town
i said it here too herpderp speaking in absolutes is not scum slipping herpderp
my first game ever where I was scared to post. (Apparently not)
me and SLG <3 vague posts. (Irony)
btw defense is completely overrated. I do it cause i have too much fucking time to hawk the thread
I'm down with ignoring risen wbg acro And mr zentos completely
Welcome to TL Mafia.
wut?
you have to be joking
When was the last time he made a decent case against anyone? He appears to stir up controversy and limit discussion wherever he goes.
He's also one of the only people really defending Risen, so there could be a possible link there. However, this will be much more apparent should Risen flip mafia tonight (Assuming lynch)
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Yeah I haven't had as good a handle on this game as games past. I was about to post a case on why I thought DYH was scum, but I decided to wait until the beginning of Day 2, and I guess I'm glad I waited.
My scum team at this moment is:
- Greymist - For reasons stated throughout the whole thread.
- One of Acro/Risen- Probably Risen
Then it get's sketchy. Conventional wisdom would suggest there's a lurker skating through. I kind of like OriginalName for that, due to his constant contradictions.
- He's lurked as hard as anyone while chastising SLJ for not wanting to play.
- Hours from posting how much he hates throw away votes, instead of voting for one of the 2 main candidates day 1, he votes for a lurker, and admits he's wasting his vote.
- All of his rants about being indecisive strike me as trying to hurry the town into a decision, I hate that attitude. It's a bully tactic to get votes onto the people that he "finds suspicious". Doesn't sit well with me.
- On the back of the last point, he's constantly telling people how to play "Still hiding information, there is no use for town in this". There are situations in which one would not divulge all information, he's said himself he's been around as long or longer than anyone else, it seems like he should know that.
- Apparently I'm the only one that finds Greymist scummy, but if you Control+F his one page filter and look for Greymist he hasn't even addressed him once.
For those that have played with OriginalName before: Is this kind of behavior typical?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/il7Yt.jpg)
