EPT
Purgatory Mafia - Page 132
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
+it resulted in lynching risk.nuke based on day 1 accusations and a long and boring night which did not help town, @BH I still do not think that you showed how what he did was so scummy, i think that his actions day3 were a much better reason to lynch him. I think you made yourself very clearly town and therefore played better than most of the thread. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Like, why do you think I pushed him so hard? I sat down and thought about what could motivate someone to suggest a plan like that, and the ONLY thing I could think of was "well, he must be scum." No other explanation made sense. There's NO way he would suggest that plan without being a mafia player. As soon as I realized this, I decided I would bury RoL at all costs regardless of what anyone said. | ||
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HarbingerOfDoom
United States508 Posts
On January 22 2012 01:23 wherebugsgo wrote: I really don't understand what the point of a breadcrumb (in the way HoD did it) as town is. You breadcrumb your results as town, not your role, because anyone can breadcrumb any role they want. The whole point of breadcrumbing is so that, if you're shot by mafia, town can reread your posts and find your targets and the results. Of course with the current state of the TL meta townies don't really have to worry much about scum fakeclaims, because scum are fucking lazy, but honestly if scum play improves a tiny bit, townies will get shafted sooooo hard by that crumbing business. I agree the breadcrumb was mostly pointless (the lack of counter-claim was the much stronger argument), but I know some people just like to believed breadcrumbed roles more than non-breadcrumbed, so I figured why not? Also, just in case someone was bold enough to counter-claim me, I figured it might help me win over an extra person or two if that scenario arose and I had a breadcrumb and they didn't. My result was breadcrumbed as well. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Establishing a group of players that are town is very powerful, do you not think that he could have felt that the plan in that or an adjusted form could have established that? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
The logic there seems impeccable. EDIT: Like, given that everyone thought the plan hurt town, I'm amazed we didn't just dogpile him and lynch him right away after he suggested it. Srsly. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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HarbingerOfDoom
United States508 Posts
Who did you attempt to investigate each night? (Zona usually releases all the actions, but I am impatient!) | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On January 22 2012 02:48 Blazinghand wrote: I think the plan was bad for town. I think you would only suggest the plan as scum. Establishing a group of players that are town is powerful, but singling out our blues will just get them killed. In fact, I think everyone agreed it was a terrible plan that hurt town. Why would RoL suggest this plan? Because he is scum. The logic there seems impeccable. EDIT: Like, given that everyone thought the plan hurt town, I'm amazed we didn't just dogpile him and lynch him right away after he suggested it. Srsly. I think that most of the criticisms were weak and that many people showed that they did not fully understand the plan. I think that RoL's responses were actually much stronger than the criticisms. I think that town players, are entirely capable of coming up with or pushing plans that are bad for town. I think that we could not have made a reliable judgement concerning how good/bad RoL thought his plan was for town, since he was out-arguing his critics and trying to push the plan to convince us to follow it (this would make sense for a player of either alignment) Since we could not reliably judge whether or not he was trying to manipulate or help us i think that we could not use his plan as the basis for calling him scum. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On January 22 2012 02:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: @Syllo Who did you attempt to investigate each night? (Zona usually releases all the actions, but I am impatient!) N1: I sent in Jackal first but then switched to Tyrran N2: Tyrran N3: Grackaroni but switched to Zephirdd when he made that post in which he called me seer. Basically because I knew I was going to die unless HoD really was the angel of death and zephirdd was the third angel | ||
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HarbingerOfDoom
United States508 Posts
On January 22 2012 02:58 syllogism wrote: N1: I sent in Jackal first but then switched to Tyrran N2: Tyrran N3: Grackaroni but switched to Zephirdd when he made that post in which he called me seer. Basically because I knew I was going to die unless HoD really was the angel of death and zephirdd was the third angel So had you stayed on Jackal and neither of us were sent to purgatory, the blue roles could have hit 3 scum night one :-P But that means we both tried to investigate Tyrran night one, but both ended up in purgatory. -_- | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 22 2012 02:57 layabout wrote: I think that most of the criticisms were weak and that many people showed that they did not fully understand the plan. I think that RoL's responses were actually much stronger than the criticisms. I think that town players, are entirely capable of coming up with or pushing plans that are bad for town. I think that we could not have made a reliable judgement concerning how good/bad RoL thought his plan was for town, since he was out-arguing his critics and trying to push the plan to convince us to follow it (this would make sense for a player of either alignment) Since we could not reliably judge whether or not he was trying to manipulate or help us i think that we could not use his plan as the basis for calling him scum. You're leaving out the part where his plan is actually bad for town, and lets the angels win. Yes, people had poorly thought out criticisms of the plan. Yes, RoL defended his plan skillfully. Yes, it's possible he was a terrible townie who wrote a 3,000 word plan without thinking through the consequences of it. But it was still a bad plan, and he was still pushing it. Why would you push a bad plan? Because you are scum. So I tunneled him for a week. EDIT: Look, I had a clear read on RoL. I believed like 99% that he was scum. How, in that circumstance, am I NOT going to push him, and push him hard? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Can a corrupted town player ever cast a vote? A corrupted town player starts the day able to vote normally, but whoever controls his/her vote can change the vote at any time (or can cast the vote if the corrupted player hasn't voted yet), and once that happens, the corrupted town player cannot change his/her "own" vote in any way. Night ended at about 1:30 AM for me i could not stop BH from voting. Since the vote would update after 5 minutes and at certain times there were a limited number of players that would have access to the thread, i was not able to change BH's vote around without risking being caught. Since Tyrran was offline he could not stop the CT from voting for him. I think it would have been reasonable for any demon to be able change the vote. Or to change the vote with a reasonable delay. Since the courier died n1 and we still had chances to win i am not going to complain about balance which seems about right, but i would like to say that: The corrupt mechanic was not particularly useful this game.
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
i blame you for this: On January 13 2012 05:29 layabout wrote: You simply cannot use Prove in this context. You have not proven anything. DOES ANYBODY ACTUAL POSSES THE ABILITY TO THINK! But it was still a bad plan, and he was still pushing it. Why would you push a bad plan? Because you are scum. You cannot go from bad plan to scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 22 2012 03:22 layabout wrote: BH you have yet again completely missed the point i am making i blame you for this: I don't remember the context for that quotation. I'm not sure what the point is, but RoL thought he could get away with suggesting an anti-town plan, and I pushed him, and he got lynched. Like, why would he push that plan? what motivation could he have? I can't think of a solid motivation except "I dont' want town to win" so clearly he was scum. EDIT: Hey, and it turned out he WAS scum! How about that! | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On January 22 2012 02:53 syllogism wrote: RoL still insists that he thought the plan favors angels AND town, so if that is truly his take on it, it's a null tell i am giving up. your stubbornness is unfathomable Edit: It doesn't even matter what his alignment is/was Edit: all this editing is so fun, maybe i should go back and put more spoilers into my posts | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
In any case, it seems Wiggle-Dawg agreed with me as well, on RoL :D I'll go take a look at your post. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9856 Posts
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