EPTmy list would be
palmar
mataza
<insert lurker here>
also, i advocate that the cop should roleclaim IF and ONLY IF he finds the roleblocker or 2 scum
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
my list would be palmar mataza <insert lurker here> also, i advocate that the cop should roleclaim IF and ONLY IF he finds the roleblocker or 2 scum | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
Reads, will only have a short note, I have school tommorow so ill be home around 4:00pm CDT Town: Me Varpu (really aggro) Jee Jee Young (stop being an ass to him) Steff Null: Kavdragon (more posts less wagon jumping, actually leaning scum for fluffy reasoning and inactivity) Unichan (newb) Scum: Mataza Palmer if i missed you chances are you really arent noteworthy and should step up. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Sorry if this covers anything that has already been said, I'm still working offline and posting when I get a brief connection Right, so I know I didn't start the bandwagon on Sinani, but I certainly made sure that it stayed that way. I accept the responsibility for this mislynch as I feel like I was the person who stopped a possible rescue. I accept the scrutiny that will come because of the mislynch, and will do my best to answer any questions you may have about my play. I'll start by responding to the general aditide towards my play which was summed up by YM: "he's virtually only said "lynch lurkers" then disappeared." I was only here for the beginning of the day and I gave my opinions and advice on the two prevailing subjects: A Veteran claim (which I was against), and whether or not to lynch a lurker (which I was for). I already explained why I've been reletivly inactive, and as i mentioned then, I should be able to post more now. Enough about me though. Firstly I think that talking during the night is a GOOD thing and we should definetly utilize the time to our advantage. Next: as I see it there are two main things that we need to discuss: The lynch, and night actions. The Lynch We need to look at who is implicated now that we know that Sinani has flipped town. This will not necesarilly be people who just voted for Sinani. Sucm want to lynch anyone who is not scum, so look for the people who sheeped behind other people's reasons, but tried to absolve themselfs right before the lynch. (Mafia want to lynch anyone but scum, but they don't want to be caught doing it.) In Insane PYP Ace was scum and did a really good job of pushing my lynch, but he never actually voted me, and right at the end he called people voting for me "scummy". He distanced himself from the lynch, and did it so well that when i flipped town, nobody thought that he was the one responsible, even though he was the instigator, and to a great extent pushed the lynch forwards. Look for that people distancing themselves from the lynch. Night Actions Detective: The general policy for detectives is to look at inactive players because they are the hardest to analyse later in the game. If you have a hunch, go for it. Part of the power of the detective is that they can look at people who otherwise wouldn't get looked at. I think that people should post lists of who they think should be DT checked, but obviously the decision should be, and is, up to the detective. + Show Spoiler [My DT List] + Unichan (hasn't said much) OriginalName (He was(is) a lurker, and this gives us a lot more information on the lynch.) Medic: Figure out who you think the mafia are most likly to hit, and protect them. Obviously you can't know for sure, but generally picking people who are vocal and obviously pro-town is a good pick. Experianced players are another good way to go. + Show Spoiler [MyMedicList] + dementrio (He's new but his aditude gives me a town read. I hope he keeps it up.) Youngmini (I have a null read on him, but he's an experianced player and worth saving) Vigilante At this point i don't think we have strong cases against anyone and reads are pretty weak at this point. Even if you could shoot, I wouldn't. Save it for someone you are sure about, but is unlikely to get lynched. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
If you are medic, there is almost never a reason to claim. So don't. Don't breadcrumb it, don't hint at it. Mafia are MUCH more likely to pick up on those things. If you are a cop, don't claim if you get scum. Breadcrumb that person. For instance, if you check OriginalName and he's sucm, don't say "I"M A COP, ON IS SCUM!!!!!". Vote him, pressure him, make him a center point of your accusations. Not necessarily tunneling, but make sure that the scum is being accused by you. Vig: No need to claim before hand, and the town will likely discuss and decide whether you should claim following your shot. Also, I forgot to mention this before, but we must work under the assumption that we have no blue roles. This should go without saying but i see people making plans that revolve around someone being checked, and then medic'd. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
The Lynch We need to look at who is implicated now that we know that Sinani has flipped town. This will not necesarilly be people who just voted for Sinani. Sucm want to lynch anyone who is not scum, so look for the people who sheeped behind other people's reasons, but tried to absolve themselfs right before the lynch. (Mafia want to lynch anyone but scum, but they don't want to be caught doing it.) lol, this is exactly what I've been accusing palmar of since night post. On June 05 2011 18:15 Palmar wrote: + Show Spoiler + Sinani206 Last person I wanna talk about is sinani206. He has contributed almost absolutely nothing to this game. He created a damn list of post-counts, and he's updating us with vote-counts. This is the lamest excuse for activity I have ever seen. My previous attitude of randomly calling out people for lynching was even more useful than those damn lists. I'm not going to include his lists in this. On June 04 2011 12:48 sinani206 wrote: Yes I completely agree, but if we don't have any outstandingly scummy players there is no point in choosing the scummiest player (who might not be very scummy at all) over a player with one post and an unexplained vote. Wanting to lynch inactive players is a terrible way to play day 1. Wanting to push inactive or useless people, like has been done to me and stefftastiq is a good way to play. You never want to end up lynching the inactive, cause it's almost guaranteed that you'll end up killing a bored townie. The end vote should much rather go to someone who is actively lurking, but not contributing. Do you know who I'm talking about? On June 04 2011 13:58 sinani206 wrote: Varpulis, why did you change your mind so quickly after Hesmyrr posted? More "contributions". On June 05 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote: He only responds to people and does not contribute to the discussion at all. He talks about some joke that obviously does not have to do with the current game, and then asks me and Mataza some silly questions. There had not been too much wrong with Mataza's play at this point in time, so I don't see why he begins metagaming with his first post. His question toward me was particularly pointless, because I specifically stated that it was a list of players who had not posted since the Day 1 post. I obviously could not name myself in the list because by posting the list I myself would be posting. Silly filler questions to help his active lurking regimen. ##Vote stefftastiq I don't really understand your motives here. You are much more of an active lurker than Stefftastiq, and you actually have a good history of being useful as town, so I'm very suspicious of you. Stefftastiq's meta suggests that he's very careful even when he's town, so while that doesn't clear him by any stretch of the imagination, it certainly pushes my suspicion rather towards you, seeing I know you're capable of very strong town play. And that's it. Sinani206 pointed out that he has a lot of posts, as that would somehow absolve him of suspicion, but it's just bullshit. He's posting a ton, pushing for lynch on people that don't post, but nothing he's posting has any content at all. I don't think he would've changed his posting habits if someone hadn't pushed him hard like I'm doing now. We will probably get a "useful" post from him in wake of this. Let's see just how useful it is. ##Unvote Youngminii ##Vote Sinani206 Roundabout meta reasoning, voted after prplhz had already voted for sinani and On June 06 2011 10:43 Palmar wrote: I think sinani's death would've been too quiet. ##Unvote ##Vote OriginalName Literally no reason, just switches. Lynching sinani gives PLENTY of information while lynching ON doesn't and palmar's been going on about how "this will give us plenty of information" etc the entire game. There was also prplhz who started expressing doubts about lynching sinani towards the end but he doesn't seem as scummy as the palmar/mataza duo. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:04 youngminii wrote: lol, this is exactly what I've been accusing palmar of since night post. Heh, and people already started discussing night actions + lists. This is what i get for not being up to date on the thread. Oh, and I'd like to update my DT list to include Varpulis at the top. He's pretty far up on my scumdar now, and I'll get around to an analysis tomorrow. (hopefully before the night is over, in case I die). | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On June 06 2011 11:33 youngminii wrote: Don't know if I'm the best cop check. I think it may be safe to play the next day or two assuming I'm town, no? I mean unless you really think my play is really scummy, but there's definitely better people to check imo, especially: Palmar. He's nearing the top of my scum list but there's a little voice in the back of my head telling me he's just a crappy town player. If we can get a cop to check him I'd be a lot more reassured. You see, either the bad town player is you, or you're scum. I did my switch sufficiently early that Kavdragon and Varpulis could've swung the vote. That is exactly what I was hoping would happen. I generally am against killing people that roleclaim day 1, because even if that might potentially save mafia, then they're forced into lying, and lying always invites the opportunity to slip. We could confirm him in so many ways tonight, cop check, vigi shot etc. I think killing him was the right thing to do, up until he claimed Veteran. It's very easy for the mafia sway a vote in the wrong direction on day one, so I figured that the Sinani train came way too easily, that coupled with his vet claim made me switch. I still don't know where I stand on the Mataza issue, I have a hard time reading that guy. Remember that while my switch to ON could be seen as a way of distancing myself from the vote, this post by Kavdragon does basically the same thing for him. On June 06 2011 10:51 Kavdragon wrote: So I'll be honest here. I saw giant bandwagon on a player who had no one really defending them. That is a town tell for me. Don't get me wrong, I think that sinari looks scummy, but that big of a landslide of votes is not going to happen to a mafia player. So I was going to press for Original Name, becaues he was lurking back and not posting much other than defence. This claim (which sinani's been painfully obviously hinting at for the since he asked if a vet could be lynched) is changing things. If I were mafia, and I was about to be lynched, I would 100% claim vet. It's not confirmable unless you are shot, and obviously the mafia isn't going to shoot their own member. After they claim vet they have an excuse to be alive for the rest of the game "Because the mafia know that I am a vet". In short, the vet claim makes me think more than anything that Sinani is scum. I think I think that the vet claim is a last ditch attempt to save their own, and by the looks of it it's going pretty well. ##Unvote ##Vote Sinani JeeJee correctly pointed out that Sinani had soft-claimed vet already through his question to GMarshal. At the moment I feel JeeJee is pro-town. I guess we will see if we have any information come day-break. This'll be interesting. | ||
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stefftastiq
Norway205 Posts
sorry man, that was kinda what I was afraid of - but you were suspicious of others of not being super-active while you basicly just avoided being inactive yourself by posting a bit obvious stuff! shit happends now about youngminii In any case, I'm going to lean on the fact that I defended sinani from the start to remove any suspicions on me for now. I don't know exactly why you think I'm suspicious and I don't really want to know right now (in favour of other discussion) so try to look at the fact that I defended sinani, sinani flipped blue, and postpone your suspicion on me. this is suspicious, isnt it? - i mean you can really not trust -anybody- until you for sure know someones role you could a) blindly hoped that he would turn green / blue and hope everything turns out ok. b) be scum - and KNOW that he is non-scum - defend him beforehand to hope it clears your suspicion afterwards.. this would probably not be as scummy if you didnt post that post stating that town really should clear the suspicion on you - which you did.. if other town are uncertain of me - do a check on me - i have no problem with that, but i would hope it would be spent more visely on someone more suspicious - i would suggest maybe youngminiii or jeejee or perphaps palmar (he got me pretty bad in minimafia2) :-p | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I take that as an insult since Palmar playing like shit and accusing on meta while I try my best to ignore him is a RETARDED PLAN! I could understand it if we were actually having a ridiculous discussion with each other, but right now i just think that Palmar is not as good as he thinks he is. He is receiving much flak in PTP right now for his scum reads he enforces with bullets instead of analysis. And again I am too late and only the second to write about it, but youngminii hasn´t really stood out day1 until he defended Sinani. I wasn´t online because lynch is 2 hours after midnight for me. Defending a Vet claim is nothing huge and it is even easier when you are scum. By the way, that is a sometimes overlooked scumtell. Scum can and often will defend someone with absolute certainty. That is, because they know for sure he is not scum, unlike everyone else. My opinions at this point: Palmar I´m split about him. I´m leaning towards town though as idiocy and confidence in stupid stuff can come from not knowing anything for certain. Doesn´t mean much though. youngminii Like I said up there, It´s easy for scum to defend a mislynched guy on the slightest provocation. It´s the equivalent of a bus, only that you don´t have to lose a member of scumteam for it. Also me cooperating with Palmar to do what we(he) did is about the most retarded thing I ever heard. Assuming everyone else is dumb is what I do, too, but not to that extent. OriginalName I nearly put him here as red, but I rewatched all his posts and I am probably just angry at him. Seems quite reasonable actually, but he decided to provoke me for the explanation on my behavior(which other people wanted to see from me iirc) Maybe he hoped I would slip scumtells if I get angry, but that in itself is a nulltell Prplhz Yep, that´s what I call. It´s my third game with him and in everyone he has been dubious and got lynched as townie. Some people are just scummy when they try to help town. He has to seriously play better though. Being innocent doesn´t make him right though. [/green]Varpulis[green] This guy is playing quite well right now. He really tried earlier to pressure people into posting better. In general his posts look quite helpful. 2 gripes though: 1. His working assumption seems to be everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I prefer it the other way around, be especially suspicious of people who say you´re right. 2. His vote landed on Sinani in the end. Jeejee This guy looks very pro town. Actually quite too pro town to be true. On second sighting, quite a bit of his content is nondangerous to scum and some is simple explaining. His posts are clean cut, it feels almost slippery. If he is as pro town as he looks, he should post more and voice more opinions on other players. Kavdragon This guy is known for getting lynched day1. As, I think it was Ace, stated, it´s a sign that he does something wrong on a regular basis. Not to say I don´t do either, but Kav has a reputation for it while I am getting one right now. No read really. Hesmyrr/Dementrio Hesmyrr was definitely a good player, but a good player isn´t automatically town. His big bad analysis wasn´t all that great on second thought. He goes by classic scumtells, treats me as if I didn´t know about Kavdragons reputation and the inside joke that he usually gets lynched. With classic scumtells I mean his vote on Prplhz. He equals below average player = scum. Wouldn´t it be for that, I´d say he is town. Dementrio didn´t say anything besides hello yet, probably because he doesn´t want to destroy the image of Hesmyrr as town. If I forgot someone, my bad. Just don´t trust someone because he is good with words. Trust them because what they mean to say is actually right. | ||
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stefftastiq
Norway205 Posts
Good post btw, I think i can agree on your thoughts here - going to be interesting in a few hours or so when the US people start being active again. youngminiii is by far the most suspicous person i can think of right now - hope he stands up a bit more than sinani did - if he is town that is. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
You have been drunk for about a day and while I think there are the right thoughts in your posts, you don´t put them forward enough. Though you have quite a few posts, you didn´t really get much substance in there. You need to accuse like you mean it. On meta this would make you innocent, but also rather useless. Townies shouldn´t try to hide ever. Actually, when I see you play I just want to help you. Leaning towards town. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Varpulis You need to focus your pressure because you are too much all over the place for it to have an impact right now, and it makes reading you really hard. Instead of jumping from inactive to inactive, pick one and go for it. Kavdragon Get internets. As you probably know, right now you're a great asset for town but it bugs me that it's a bit hard to get a read on you because of your posting pattern. Mataza Stop being paranoid and arguing with meta. Read the game, find a scum, make him break. unichan, dementrio, stefftastiq You really need to do something too. Three lurkers/inactives are just too much. I think unichan and stefftastiq are trying but dementrio seems weirdly absent. He had a single post with some decent content but your level of activity is just not high enough. unichan and stefftastiq both need to put more effort into their posts. Right now I am getting some townie reads and some scum reads, but it's still very much up in the air. I really wish that town had organized their votes and put up a serious candidate for lynching besides sinani206 because this bandwagon didn't provide nearly enough information as I'd have liked. This cannot happen again. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Since then his posting has shown a fairly clear agenda that is pro-town. I'd write up an analysis on why he is town, but I don't think we are going to be lynching him anytime soon, and I think my time would be better spent on scum. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
Youngmiini put up a light defense for sinani when he came out as the clear bandwagon. He could have done this both as scum or town. The claim though changed things; the mafia could choose between pushing for a very easy blue lynch from the get-go or risking to have him survive and potentially having a confirmed and hard to kill citizen on the loose. The opportunity in my opinion is too great to risk it by having every scum to vote for someone else. If Youngmiini is scum, he could concievably have decided to step up the defense, for the sake of coherence and using it to clear his name afterwards, but the other 2 votes would probably be locked on sinani. This would clear palmar and jeejee. If Youngmiini is town, scum could swing votes more freely; but I find it unlikely that the only ones to decide to switch would be scum. This to me means at least one between palmar and jeejee is town, and this in turn makes both of them less likely to be scum. My conclusion is that palmar and jeejee are >rand town. I have no clear idea what the best detective/doctor strategy is but I'd guess this makes them good doctor targets and bad detective peeks. I personally would like to have youngmiini peeked because I think he plays a pivotal role now and I really can't make up my mind on him. This is all I can get from this lynch. As for "hunches", Varpulis is the only one who clearly transmits town vibes to me right now, in the way he acts in general and in particular how he reacted to the claim. Kavdragon is also being very helpful as a sort of town strategy guru but I'll wait until he puts his preaching into practice. prplhz, Varpulis You need to focus your pressure because you are too much all over the place for it to have an impact right now, and it makes reading you really hard. Instead of jumping from inactive to inactive, pick one and go for it. Kavdragon Get internets. As you probably know, right now you're a great asset for town but it bugs me that it's a bit hard to get a read on you because of your posting pattern. Mataza Stop being paranoid and arguing with meta. Read the game, find a scum, make him break. unichan, dementrio, stefftastiq You really need to do something too. Three lurkers/inactives are just too much. I think unichan and stefftastiq are trying but dementrio seems weirdly absent. He had a single post with some decent content but your level of activity is just not high enough. unichan and stefftastiq both need to put more effort into their posts. I read you scum. You carefully avoided everyone who is under the shitstorm right now and picked every target you could criticize without actually giving a read. We know the lynch has not solved this game yet, you could try to tell us however little you could make of it before pointing out who else has not talked yet. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I kinda just wanted people to talk and I think these are the hardest to get reads on with their current level/manner of activity. I'll post something more analytical day2. I'm glad to see you're up to two posts now, keep 'em coming. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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stefftastiq
Norway205 Posts
Yeah - i know I should step up my game - but I find it really hard to draw hard conclusions from the stuff which has been posted - the ones who actually post something seems to be kinda townish - and the ones who doesnt are ofc hard to read - but Mataza might be right thats its maybe better to "accuse like i mean it" - and in that way bring more activity on the players which are hardly contributing (and i kinda know that im in that situation myself :-p) more activity in the thread is longed for! | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
As worried as I am by the lurkers, I'm getting a huge town vibe from dementrio. In fact, he's probably the most townlike so far. I also haven't seen varpulis act scummy in any way. I mean he was swinging his votes on a bunch of people for pressure but to me that just looks like a very eager townie trying to catch scum. Which isn't a bad thing in any way. Mataza. I already said not to take my conspiracy theory seriously yet, but you do seem just about as odd as palmar. You pounce on him the moment he uses meta against you, yet you use meta against steff. It's not a huge thing but it does strike me as a little odd, I've already said you shouldn't use meta because it'll end up confusing you more than it'll help. I could see an alliance between you and steff but it might just be me wanting it to be there (if you know what I mean), surely you wouldn't make it that obvious if you and steff really were scum. As for palmar, after my refreshing sleep (I haven't slept properly since MLG) I'm going to back off him a little. I still think he'd make a great check but after reading his posts again, I can see him as some sort of deluded townie, almost like a real village idiot and nothing more. Of course, this doesn't completely drop him off my scumdar but my focus is set on mataza now. The only 2 posts mataza has made since the night post are both wishy washy. He basically says everyone in his post is either town or undecided. The only person he really does accuse is me, which is a clear OMGUS vote that would be safe for scum to make. It seems as if he's just an over-secure scum that wants to make sure he's not ringing the wrong bells but wants to get rid of opposition. I'm getting pretty huge scum vibes from this guy. So my DT checklist would be mataza then palmar. If you want to check me that's okay too but I think checking varpulis or kavdragon would be a waste since they really don't seem scummy at all. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
According to that logic you just have to accuse everyone and see who accuses back, Tada scum! My meta on Steff is that he looks really helpless. It doesn´t make him town. I thought about putting Hesmyrr and OriginalName in red. But I really wanted to put them one suspicion category lower than you. You were dodgy as hell, and even said "I defended Sinani, he flipped blue, therefore I must be green" We all know that it made you look better. So why do you try to rub it in? | ||
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