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On August 09 2010 09:16 Scamp wrote:
LSB your last few posts have been much better and as a result I'm less suspicious of you now. Keep playing like that.
I'm totally down with the Bill Murray bandwagon right now as other than the inactive (who may have a legitimate excuse) he looks like the best play. The only thing that I'm concerned about it is that there seems to be no consideration as to what to do if BM flips green or blue. It doesn't clear Pyrr and puts more pressure on Ace, who at this point is looking like our strongest player.
It doesn't really put more pressure on Ace because it just means BM was fucking around. Or that Hesmyrr forgot some of his rules or we are misinterpreting them (doubt it). It doesn't clear me but I think it undermines the reasons people are currently voting for me, which based on me working in concert with BM.
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On August 09 2010 08:48 bumatlarge wrote:
Alright basically, I am a tree stump. If I use my power, I cannot die, and cannot vote. BUT if I use it, town pop goes down 1, and mafia pop goes up by 1.
I.E. if i used it right now, town population would be 9 and mafia count would be 4. Im assuming that, if all the mafia are lynched out, then town wins regardless.
There are no PMs allowed, so I cant accept mass roleclaim, so I dont really see a reason for me to use it anyway.
##Vote Bill Murray
I figured you had some kind of tree stump role. Thats a really fucked up penalty tho. Jesus there has to be an overpowered town role somewhere. Either way don't stump and just stay normal townie ^_^
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On August 09 2010 09:09 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 08:32 LSB wrote:On August 09 2010 07:12 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Lol "No post restriction bs though."
Why didn't you post that earlier, Ace?
##abstain Talk ##vote BillMurrayOther Issues -If BM actually has a weird post restriction stuff. Well after he's lynched we'll find out his role. That would be pretty helpful Why BM would do this, assuming he's mafia: Immediately, town got in a huge disarray. A split was made. BM was counting on this working so that Ace would die the first day. We then see that Ace is clean, and day 2 we would lynch BM and his best supporter, who would happen to be green. Bill's death buys 2 days and 2 innocents. However, looks like he made a small mistake :D As for lynching Pyrr. I would advise AGAINST lynching Pyrr now. The logic works like this Premise 1) If Bill Murry is Mafia, Pyrr is mafia Premise 2) Bill Murry is Mafia Therefore Pyrr is mafia. However, we should first confirm premise #2. We do that by lynching BM. We're going to lynch BM anyways, so why not now? Lynching Pyrr first could lead to a dead townie. And Pyrr being green does not tell us anything about BM why is the logic that way? why cant it be the other way around, i was going to go into some big thing of explaining propositional calculus to you and other people but im sure that would just confuse people more. infact why does it have to go either way at all for sure. Surely there can be reasons for them both being mafia, or one and not the other...or even oddly enough neither i suppose
Pyrr's action earlier in the day (his arguments + vote on me) suggests that he figures BM had a penalty of a post restriction.
Bill Murray kept voting for me based on this assumption Pyrr had. We know for a fact that based on the OP this role restriction doesn't exist.
This means that Bill Murray is lying, or isn't even trying to clarify his position. If he's lynched we know he's scum or just someone playing like a shitty townie. Regardless of if Pyrr is scum I think LSB is saying for now try and resolve what's going in with Bill Murray.
From that IF Bill Murray were to flip scum, then there would be strong evidence that Pyrr tried to force a false penalty through which would have gotten me killed. Bill Murray having this "false" post restriction would be in the clear anyway since he can't even explain himself anyway and Pyrr could have just worded his assumption wrong.
## vote Bill Murray
I'm still highly suspicious of Pyrr because I put more stock in his intelligence than to take Bill Murray's posting seriously.
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I really think we should start with the penalty claims. Bill Murray since you are probably going to be lynched what is your penalty?
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On August 09 2010 09:16 Scamp wrote:
LSB your last few posts have been much better and as a result I'm less suspicious of you now. Keep playing like that.
Maybe I should ask my questions in PM form to the mod then :S
On August 09 2010 09:09 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 08:32 LSB wrote:On August 09 2010 07:12 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Lol "No post restriction bs though."
Why didn't you post that earlier, Ace?
##abstain Talk ##vote BillMurrayOther Issues -If BM actually has a weird post restriction stuff. Well after he's lynched we'll find out his role. That would be pretty helpful Why BM would do this, assuming he's mafia: Immediately, town got in a huge disarray. A split was made. BM was counting on this working so that Ace would die the first day. We then see that Ace is clean, and day 2 we would lynch BM and his best supporter, who would happen to be green. Bill's death buys 2 days and 2 innocents. However, looks like he made a small mistake :D As for lynching Pyrr. I would advise AGAINST lynching Pyrr now. The logic works like this Premise 1) If Bill Murry is Mafia, Pyrr is mafia Premise 2) Bill Murry is Mafia Therefore Pyrr is mafia. However, we should first confirm premise #2. We do that by lynching BM. We're going to lynch BM anyways, so why not now? Lynching Pyrr first could lead to a dead townie. And Pyrr being green does not tell us anything about BM why is the logic that way? why cant it be the other way around, i was going to go into some big thing of explaining propositional calculus to you and other people but im sure that would just confuse people more. infact why does it have to go either way at all for sure. Surely there can be reasons for them both being mafia, or one and not the other...or even oddly enough neither i suppose
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent Go brush up on your Propositional Calculus.
And Ace's post seems like complete BS.
BM does a vote post. We all go wtf?
Pyrr was the first one to think that BM might have some post restriction thingy, and so he tests it out. That's being smart. Not manipulative.
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Uhh... NVM ace, I was talking about your earlier post, I keep on getting ninjaed
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which post? Clarify so we can hash this out.
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i'm up for the penalty posting
basically when i'm lynched, a random person is picked out of the people who voted for me, and that person gets permanent +1 vote to all future lynch votes no matter what
yeah i'm not very useful
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On August 09 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
The problem here is that Pyrr made up Bill Murray's penalty for him, and BM being who he is ran with it.
Really?
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I am against penalty posting.
There are blue roles out there. Maybe a medic that can only work every other day or something. The moment the medic reveals, the medic has until daybreak till she* dies.
*Just played BW, medics are shes.
So blue roles wouldn't penalty post. But the people with anti-town/quirky stuff will penalty post. Mafia can narrow down their hit list.
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On August 09 2010 09:40 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
The problem here is that Pyrr made up Bill Murray's penalty for him, and BM being who he is ran with it. Really?
Yes really. Remember Bill Murray voted for me without any explanation, and then Pyrr came up with the idea that Bill Murray's penalty might be he can get results of scum without talking about it.
Then he asked Bill Murray twice to prove it through vote switches and then switching back on to me. Bill Murray did it and hence we had Bill Murray's penalty.
Did I misread some posts or get the order of events wrong?
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Everyone should penalty post. Blue/Green it doesn't matter because all of us have roles. Penalties are NOT tied to roles. If you think Mafia is going to just start sniping everyone based off of penalties then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Pyrr - what do you want the town to do instead?
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In fact if you are so sure this is possible then look here where I've given extra information that I didn't even have to and I penalty claimed:
1.) Knowing what I know about my own role PM, I know my role is almost surely weak. As in if I ever acted out my role the town would lose because it not only stops me from role claiming but I'm the worst person in this game to get this kind of role. The only way this role would work is if I had a hidden condition the mod didn't give me. Being that I can't know that and even if I did it would still be somewhat underpowered...2.) The town has to have a Vigilante or some kind of night killing role. It would be damn near impossible to confirm innocents if all the town players have penalties. However here's where our only known advantage at the moment comes in: Show nested quote +
This setup also has another twist in it; all Townies (not mafia) will have specific penalties that either diminish strength of one's ability or simply anti-town. No post restriction bs though.
This tells us 2 things: The town roles have penalties and the scum don't. Even with a safe fake claims from the mod we know this to be true and I'll get back to this soon. Secondly we know Bill Murray is bullshitting and this makes me even more suspicious of Pyrr. Bill Murray can't have a post restriction because the op says there aren't any!. So why are people seriously pointing fingers at me for nonsense when the "proof" Bill Murray is offering is banned by the very OP of the game? Good question if I do say so myself. Back to the penalty claims. If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them. We should all reveal our penalties in a way that doesn't make it blatantly obvious what our roles are since even Vanilla Townies have penalties. For example this is my penalty in a nutshell: Anything I do must be telegraphed to the rest of the player base if it is a valid action.
Based on this post can you tell me what my role is?
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On August 09 2010 09:44 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 09:40 LSB wrote:On August 09 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
The problem here is that Pyrr made up Bill Murray's penalty for him, and BM being who he is ran with it. Really? Yes really. Remember Bill Murray voted for me without any explanation, and then Pyrr came up with the idea that Bill Murray's penalty might be he can get results of scum without talking about it. Then he asked Bill Murray twice to prove it through vote switches and then switching back on to me. Bill Murray did it and hence we had Bill Murray's penalty. Did I misread some posts or get the order of events wrong?
You're misplacing cause and effect.
Bill Murry votes for you. This causes Pyrr to joke, and then suspect a voting penalty.
Put yourself in Pyrr's shoes.
On August 08 2010 12:07 Bill Murray wrote:
##Vote Ace
I immediately think placeholder. Divinek thinks the same thing that I do
On August 08 2010 12:18 Divinek wrote:
i was expecting more spam than that from bm
Pyrr, who is playing penalty mafia, gets an idea it's a penalty. Perfectly reasonable. Because really, why would BM do that?
I haven't played with BM much, but from what I've read, BM doesn't seem like pop in, vote, afk. Kind of person
Pyrr tries to confirm, and BM obliges him. This does not show that Pyrr is mafia. It shows that Pyrr is playing logically
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On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
what do you want the town to do instead?
Well I'm not certain that it's a bad idea at this point. But if it is, we can always analyze behavior and have blues act silently and, you know, play the game.
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Then you must also believe that Pyrr doesn't know Bill Murray plays illogically. I don't believe this is the case.
Bill Murray is known to be terrible. He plays town in an extremely anti-town matter. I believe that Pyrr indeed does know this which is why I found it suspicious he would think that BM really does have a penalty.
If you know the kind of player BM is then this is why I find Pyrr trying to rationalize BM's actions as highly scummy. If say, someone like Divinek popped in and voted for me, then Pyrr tried to figure out if this was his penalty I'd take it as a townie trying to figure something out. Regardless since I know I'm not scum, I already know that even if the OP didn't ban post restrictions Bill Murray was lying.
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On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
Everyone should penalty post. Blue/Green it doesn't matter because all of us have roles. Penalties are NOT tied to roles. If you think Mafia is going to just start sniping everyone based off of penalties then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Pyrr - what do you want the town to do instead?
Looks like your making the same mistake that BM did
On July 22 2010 23:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
This setup also has another twist in it; all Townies (not mafia) will have specific penalties that either diminish strength of one's ability or simply anti-town. No post restriction bs though.
I want the town to lynch BM, and work from there.
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On August 09 2010 09:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Well I'm not certain that it's a bad idea at this point. But if it is, we can always analyze behavior and have blues act silently and, you know, play the game.
What do you think I've been doing all this time? I don't just throw things out and ignore behavior. If you haven't noticed I put things together precisely because of behavior. This plan isn't the end all scum catcher - it's here to point us in the right direction.
Silent blues are terrible. Please don't spread that bad idea.
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On August 09 2010 07:48 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 07:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
"If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them."
I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass. If someone's penalty is they can't do anything until night 4 thats great. Because then we can remove them from any actions that happen at night, and if they still live on Night 4 we ask them to prove their action. Obviously if you can't act until Night 4 which would be ridiculous in any mafia game you've gotta have something damn near game breaking. So if the scum want to let that person until night 3 that's cool with me because before that said person better be going all out doing some intelligent scum hunting. But even all of this is moot because I did say don't make it too obvious what your role could be. On death once your role is revealed we can piece everything together. It doesn't even matter if Vanilla penalties look different than blue penalties - we just need a list of penalties period to even move forward. So what if it helps the mafia? Would you rather the town not have any direction on where to go and just stumble around mindlessly? It's like complaining that Terran's are making infantry knowing that Zerg has lurkers. Execution of the plan is just as important as the plan itself. If you don't agree come up with a better idea because I'm all ears. @divinek: now you're starting to get it ^_^ We KNOW for a fact that townies have restrictions and scum don't. They only have fake claims the host gave them. So if we are aware of our own penalties and KNOW that we have to behave a certain way then we can't do things that go against our PM where as scum can because theirs are fake. They can't fake their actions because once we see what most people's penalties look like and people start dying the picture becomes very clear.
Why are we so sure penalties are not linked to roles?
From what I've seen, and knowing my penalty, people with a blue role have penalties pertaining to that role (ex: can't use power Y unless X happens). Greens can't have that type of penalty. Telling everyone "I can't use my power unless X" means you are blue = pleasant sniping reds.
So I'd advise you to reconsider, unless you think some sort of mass role-claim is a good play. In some set-ups that is the case, in this one I personally haven't come to that conclusion.
I'll admit that, as usual, I don't pay close attention on weekends, am I missing something?
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On August 09 2010 09:58 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
Everyone should penalty post. Blue/Green it doesn't matter because all of us have roles. Penalties are NOT tied to roles. If you think Mafia is going to just start sniping everyone based off of penalties then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Pyrr - what do you want the town to do instead? Looks like your making the same mistake that BM did Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 23:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
This setup also has another twist in it; all Townies (not mafia) will have specific penalties that either diminish strength of one's ability or simply anti-town. No post restriction bs though.
I want the town to lynch BM, and work from there.
Where's the mistake? Hessmyrr's post doesn't say that penalties are tied to roles. I also know that from my role PM my penalty is NOT tied to my role. Likewise if you looked at bumatlarge's penalty claim his tree stump ability is also NOT tied to his penalty of upping scum population.You're making bad assumptions.
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EPT
