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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:56 wei2coolman wrote: Being AD Centric doesn't automatically limit your teams level to the ADC's. No, but you're basically suggesting that the team play the way it did with Uzi, but with an ADC who is not just worse than Uzi, but also has a style that doesn't fit playing that way. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:57 wei2coolman wrote: yeah, but that's fucking boring as hell. why would you want a TSM like team moving up in ranks? I WANT MY DOUBLE EDGED SWORD, NICHE COMP TEAMS IN TOP PLACE. Fine they can play insec fiddle oriented strats, namei varus incoming. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:56 Fusilero wrote: I don't think the team should be formulating their strats around namei, insec and corn having the freedom to not play bitch duty for uzi is where uziless starhorn's found their strength. One of their biggest problems is that wel/HYY were both ridiculously problematic unable to put out sufficient damage, having odd builds and being very poor in lane which forced zero out of his comfort position as counter-engage/peel for the squad since peeling for them was useless. I think as long as namei can be stable then starhorn can move up the ranks. SHRC 2-0ed GT mainly off Namei carrying them, and they probably would've went 1-1 without Namei. On the other hand they could only 1-1 King which probably means SHRC isn't gonna be a serious playoff threat any time soon. | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:57 KissBlade wrote: Rather than clutter this thread up with this offtopic trollish vitrol, don't you think it's more prudent to just pm me about this?  Since I'm replying to you in this thread anyway, I suggest you check the Oxford dictionary version in that link and think about the situation I was presenting earlier ...To be fair, its not like the other conversations going on here arent also offtopic trollish vitriol | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:58 Fusilero wrote: Fine they can play insec fiddle oriented strats, namei varus incoming. Well if they fix the Varus buff bug on his Q.... On March 16 2015 07:58 TheYango wrote: No, but you're basically suggesting that the team play the way it did with Uzi, but with an ADC who is not just worse than Uzi, but also has a style that doesn't fit playing that way. Namei just gotta find his inner yoloq... | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Calling Cool's champion pool limited is pretty ridiculous. His champion pool is limited in the sense that he's only comfortable on a select set of currently in-vogue champions. Players try to play on champions outside of their comfort zone all the time. But when doing so they don't look great. Cool has tried to play Zed twice in recent weeks, and failed both times to make use of the champion's strengths. He hasn't even tried to play Ezreal from what I've seen, doesn't play Cho'gath despite it being a FOTM pick in LPL, and also doesn't play Diana. This is a pretty big red flag when it comes to measuring champion pool. It also looks as though Loveling's champion limitations are affecting him. For example, I know Cool is capable of playing Lulu but because Loveling doesn't play carry junglers, OMG usually doesn't play support mids. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: SHRC 2-0ed GT mainly off Namei carrying them, and they probably would've went 1-1 without Namei. On the other hand they could only 1-1 King which probably means SHRC isn't gonna be a serious playoff threat any time soon. you know what, you mentioned that iw as wrong on the split results between GT and SHRC. I remember what happened. I was watching that game 2, and I saw the lead GT had, and I went to sleep just assuming GT had the game closed. ROFL. Namei in G1 wasn't that impressive though. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:02 Azarkon wrote: His champion pool is limited in the sense that he's only comfortable on a select set of currently in-vogue champions. Players try to play on champions outside of their comfort zone all the time. But when doing so they don't look great. Cool has tried to play Zed twice in recent weeks, and failed both times to make use of the champion's strengths. He hasn't even tried to play Ezreal from what I've seen, doesn't play Cho'gath despite it being a FOTM pick in LPL, and also doesn't play Diana. This is a pretty big red flag when it comes to measuring champion pool. Cool just doesn't innovate the way other top mid laners do. So your claim is "Cool's champion pool is limited" despite him playing a hard carry role on pretty much every flavor of the month champion every single meta rotation? | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I didn't say Snake was a well-rounded team, but to say "Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding" is absurd when Beast and Baka have performed exceptionally well. Pretty much every team in the top half of the standings that they've beat Snake has had to rely on that 40+ minute hard carry from Kryst4l. I'll believe Baka and Beast are good players when they can snowball early advantages for their team against the best teams. Until then, Baka is Kuro 2.0 and the best he can do is not feed and just play teamfights well. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:06 Itsmedudeman wrote: Pretty much every team in the top half of the standings that they've beat Snake has had to rely on that 40+ minute hard carry from Kryst4l. I'll believe Baka and Beast are good players when they can snowball early advantages for their team against the best teams. You mean when Baka and Beast keeps Snake in the early and mid game long enough for Kryst4l and their team comp to scale into lategame without gettign stomped against the region with the best early game? plz... | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:05 KissBlade wrote: So your claim is "Cool's champion pool is limited" despite him playing a hard carry role on pretty much every flavor of the month champion every single meta rotation? He *doesn't* play FOTM champions. That's what I'm saying. Presently champions eg Viktor, Cho'Gath, Ezreal, and Diana are FOTM in LPL, but Cool opts into Liss when Ahri & Leblanc are banned, and when not playing Liss he tries to play Zed, and fails. Snake recently beat OMG by simply banning out Ahri & Leblanc, and picking Xerath for their mid. Cool looked very uncomfortable picking Zed into that line up. Fortunately, he still had Liss the second game. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:02 Azarkon wrote: His champion pool is limited in the sense that he's only comfortable on a select set of currently in-vogue champions. Players try to play on champions outside of their comfort zone all the time. But when doing so they don't look great. Cool has tried to play Zed twice in recent weeks, and failed both times to make use of the champion's strengths. He hasn't even tried to play Ezreal from what I've seen, doesn't play Cho'gath despite it being a FOTM pick in LPL, and also doesn't play Diana. This is a pretty big red flag when it comes to measuring champion pool. It also looks as though Loveling's champion limitations are affecting him. For example, I know Cool is capable of playing Lulu but because Loveling doesn't play carry junglers, OMG usually doesn't play support mids. Well to start I have to question your knowledge when you listed Ahri/Leblanc/Lissandra as Cool's mains when Cool hasn't played a single game of Lissandra this entire split until very recently I think, opting usually to ban it. You neglected to mention his Kassadin and Xerath, both of which are top notch. His Cassiopeia was pretty bad but he was playing it in the yolo phase. Between Ahri/LB/Kass/Xerath he has four S-class LPL mids, which is more than any other mid has. Pawn is a Kass/LB only kinda guy, with random trolley picks mixed in and he doesn't need to 1v5 in half his games; Xiaohu and Baka are Xerath/Azir-only pretty much; Corn is more diversified with Kass/Xerath/Ahri but isn't at Cool's level on those champs; Dade is lol; Rookie is Ahri/Fizz and lost without them; Hetong is Lissa/Kass/Xer and not as good as Cool on them. Weiless is probably the only person who has a more diverse champion pool than Cool. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
EU being a weaker region than NA has been something of a known quantity since Worlds. It's somewhat ironic given how early LoL esports was, and I'm not sure where it stems from; my guess is they've fallen behind on the coaching/analyst development that NA had spent much of last year/most of this split building up. SK didn't show much flexibility in their IEM games, and Gambit isn't useful for judging anything. I don't watch trash region LCS (huehue), so I can't really comment much here. Part of this is also YoeFW being one of the strongest (or at least, one without glaring flaws in their roster) SEA/Taiwan teams to come to an international tourney since TPA stunningly swept S2 Worlds, and the Bo1 format; TSM lost the first game to YoeFW as well. SEA teams are usually underestimated because they're always rather hard to judge: outside of the clear tier 1 teams, the rest are complete shit, so you can't tell much from the level of competition. Reminds me of Yango's surprisingly accurate statement about Chinese teams; they always look terribly shitty going into Worlds. I remember OMG pulling off several distinctly Dignitas-esque baron throws during last Worlds qualifier, with only EDG getting out of it looking good (ironically, also before they got #rekt at Worlds). And on the topic of CN teams, WE's roster changes certainly surprised everyone; there's only a few more weeks till LPL ends but I don't see WE getting auto-relegated if they transfer the same perfomrance back to LPL. Though it would be hilarious if they did. The biggest and best thing this tourney did was definitively derail the KR hype train. Everyone's recognized that the exodus of talent to other regions seriously drained KR dominance (and might spark new player-favored changes in KeSPA teams if the talent drain continues, we'll see). That, and other regions have finally developed the coaching/analyst staff and started perfecting the support structures that made South Korean teams unparalleled in League from ~late S2 through S4 Worlds. Would also say GET underperformed against WE, and CJ was just bad but w/e. It's rather telling for the LCK right now that GET was 20-2, and how much development many of the new KR teams/players are going to have to undergo. KR will still be a force going into Worlds, but...man. Hype train derailed. Unrelated note: one of these days I hope Riot puts out an English cast of Brazil's league. I'm interested in seeing how they've been progressing since Worlds because the BR scene had/has an immense amount of #potential; large domestic playerbase, pre-existing gaming teams, large amounts of sponsor money floating about, and pre-existing infrastructure from CS. All the makings of a strong region if they get it together (and I know they've been importing at least a few Koreans as well). | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:09 Azarkon wrote: He *doesn't* play FOTM champions. That's what I'm saying. Presently champions eg Viktor, Cho'Gath, Ezreal, and Diana are FOTM in LPL, but Cool opts into Liss when Ahri & Leblanc are banned, and when not playing Liss he tries to play Zed, and fails. Snake recently beat OMG by simply banning out Ahri & Leblanc, and picking Xerath for their mid. Cool looked very uncomfortable picking Zed into that line up. Fortunately, he still had Liss the second game. I'm amused that you think Diana, Viktor, Cho'gath are FOTM in LPL when they've mostly been hipster picks. Cool doesn't play Xerath (edit: wrong of me here), Snake only picks it because it's Baka's best champion and yes, when you give someone their best champion, they will do well against your mid laner. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:13 KissBlade wrote: I'm amused that you think Diana, Viktor, Cho'gath are FOTM in LPL when they've mostly been hipster picks. And btw, Cool doesn't play Xerath, Snake only picks it because it's Baka's best champion and yes, when you give someone their best champion, they will do well against your mid laner. Actually Cool does play Xerath a lot lol, does pretty well on it too. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Actually Cool does play Xerath a lot lol, does pretty well on it too. Yeah, I misspoke on that one. BTW, if we put it into perspective, WE doesn't really look much different than their LPL performance. They can take some games out of top teams and then get dumpstered by random ones. hahahaha | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Well to start I have to question your knowledge when you listed Ahri/Leblanc/Lissandra as Cool's mains when Cool hasn't played a single game of Lissandra this entire split until very recently I think, opting usually to ban it. You neglected to mention his Kassadin and Xerath, both of which are top notch. His Cassiopeia was pretty bad but he was playing it in the yolo phase. Between Ahri/LB/Kass/Xerath he has four S-class LPL mids, which is more than any other mid has. Pawn is a Kass/LB only kinda guy, with random trolley picks mixed in and he doesn't need to 1v5 in half his games; Xiaohu and Baka are Xerath/Azir-only pretty much; Corn is more diversified with Kass/Xerath/Ahri but isn't at Cool's level on those champs; Dade is lol; Rookie is Ahri/Fizz and lost without them; Hetong is Lissa/Kass/Xer and not as good as Cool on them. Weiless is probably the only person who has a more diverse champion pool than Cool. China was playing on an old patch for the longest time, so Cool hasn't had to play Liss till recently, because he had access to the now "nerfed and therefore unplayable" champs eg Kassadin. But with the hit to Kassadin and the falling out of Azir, they've had to switch to new FOTM champs. When you look at the champ pool that has been used in the last few weeks of LPL, Viktor, Ezreal, Cho'Gath, and Diana are the new picks, with Ahri, Leblanc, Xerath, Zed, and Liss being carry overs. Cool's pool consists of less than 50% of this list, because while I know he is capable of playing Xerath, he hasn't felt comfortable playing it into any assassin, and in any case OMG doesn't play poke comps very well so it's understandable. Had Cool's pool been as immense as you said, Snake would not have been able to target Cool in their bans and get an advantage out of it, as indeed it'd have been useless to do so. My feeling is that OMG simply aren't comfortable playing line ups where Cool isn't on one of his play making assassins, and that among those, Zed isn't, so he's basically left with three champions. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 08:21 Azarkon wrote: China was playing on an old patch for the longest time, so Cool hasn't had to play Liss till recently, because he had access to the now "nerfed and therefore unplayable" champs eg Kassadin. But with the hit to Kassadin and the falling out of Azir, they've had to switch to new FOTM champs. When you look at the champ pool that has been used in the last few weeks of LPL, Viktor, Ezreal, Cho'Gath, and Diana are the new picks, with Ahri, Leblanc, Xerath, Zed, and Liss being carry overs. Cool's pool consists of less than 50% of this list, because while I know he is capable of playing Xerath, he hasn't felt comfortable playing it into any assassin, and in any case OMG doesn't play poke comps very well so it's understandable. Had Cool's pool being as immense as you said, Snake would not have been able to target Cool in their bans and get an advantage out of it, as indeed it'd have been useless to do so. Lissandra has been a common pick for a long time Cool just chose not to play it, when OMG picked it it was usually for Gogoing, which usually ended disastrously. There is not a single mid besides Weiless who'd be able to survive that kind of targeting. Chogath Ezreal and Diana aren't new picks either, they've been around for ages. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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