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On March 16 2015 07:36 TheYango wrote:
Again, GET dropping games to TSM and WE would already raise eyebrows, because that'd already be a huge indicator of Korea's level of dominance being far below what it used to be.
Like, even if GET won their series vs WE, how suspect they looked in games 1 and 2 would raise a lot of questions. Sure you could argue GET was sandbagging game 2, but they also probably sandbagged some of their round robin games in LCK equally hard, and still only ever dropped 2 games. It would at least raise the possibility of the best Chinese teams being competitive with the best Korean team, which hasn't been the case in the last 2 years at all.
Then what exactly happened to SKT? They technically didn't lose any of their players to China (I believe mandu and piglet were kicked). They kept all their stars and their coaching staff stayed intact. How is SKT below the level of the GE Tigers if the GE Tigers are apparently not as good as we thought?
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On March 16 2015 07:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:45 wei2coolman wrote:
This is definitely the most accurate description of Snake.
I'm still excited to see SHRC come into their own, since Namei joined. Namei's the most overrated ADC of all time. If Royal starts winning again, it's because they finally figured out Godlike is the best player they have and a thousand times better than Cola, not because they have Namei.
@_@ I don't get you Yango. You really think Namei is overrated? I mean, wasn't he rated very highly within the Chinese league community as a whole? Also Godlike a thousand times better than Cola is odd ... Cola really gave a hell of a performance at Worlds and Royal had always been fairly reliant on Cola/Corn playing their roles IMO.
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On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way.
I don't even watch a lot of LoL, but just from transferred experience & careful observation, Krystal is less important than you think. Flandre and Beast are their best players & biggest play makers, while Krystal and Baka are both capable of carrying provided Flandre and Beast create the room they need to do so. Their biggest weakness is actually Baka's champion pool. It's rather easy to ban out Snake's strategies, but few LPL teams do so because they want the practice.
In fact, OMG suffers from the same problem. Cool and Loveling have incredibly limited champion pools in which they're comfortable on. Uzi and Cloud are able to play whatever but when your jungler doesn't know how to play carry junglers and your mid loses 50% effectiveness when not on Ahri/Leblanc/Lissandra, you're easy to ban out.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:45 wei2coolman wrote:
This is definitely the most accurate description of Snake.
I'm still excited to see SHRC come into their own, since Namei joined. Namei's the most overrated ADC of all time. If Royal starts winning again, it's because they finally figured out Godlike is the best player they have and a thousand times better than Cola, not because they have Namei.
Godlike is super moe but he feeds every game lol.
On March 16 2015 07:50 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:47 TheYango wrote:On March 16 2015 07:45 wei2coolman wrote:
This is definitely the most accurate description of Snake.
I'm still excited to see SHRC come into their own, since Namei joined. Namei's the most overrated ADC of all time. If Royal starts winning again, it's because they finally figured out Godlike is the best player they have and a thousand times better than Cola, not because they have Namei. @_@ I don't get you Yango. You really think Namei is overrated? I mean, wasn't he rated very highly within the Chinese league community as a whole? Also Godlike a thousand times better than Cola is odd ... Cola really gave a hell of a performance at Worlds and Royal had always been fairly reliant on Cola/Corn playing their roles IMO.
Cola massively overpeformed at world's. Corn is their best player imo ; [
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United States47024 Posts
Where did I say that SKT is below the level of GE Tigers?
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On March 16 2015 07:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way. At least Uzi was and still is a fantastic laner that pretty much always seems to get ahead in the early game. I don't think you watch LPL at all if you actually belive this, this is the level of ignorance that you'd see on something like ChinaTalk lol.
And only a Chinese fanboy would actually believe that Snake is a well rounded team. They lost to WE last week and only won the 2nd game after coming back from a 5k gold deficit because, well you guessed it, Kryst4l ended up being their late game carry in a 40+ minute game.
But hey, we got 11 teams that would stomp WE in 20 minutes and not ever make it close hurrrr
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On March 16 2015 07:44 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:43 las91 wrote:On March 16 2015 07:42 KissBlade wrote:On March 16 2015 07:40 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, for all we know, Snake could totally collapse once LPL moves to playoffs, lol. Really? I don't understand why Snake still needs to do more to prove themselves. They look like a really good team that knows how to play their specific styles no matter how one dimensional they may seem. I mean their members are all reasonably able at positions and they have pretty good strategy sense. Sounds like SK gaming. before this tourney that is Eh I would've liked to see SK vs TSM. Bo1 double elim is awful.
To be honest SK was exposed in EU even without Lucian/Graves bans. They are 3-3 in last 3 weeks. Also huge factor in SK results is Svenskeren going from best western jungler to garbage, not only one style of play.
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On March 16 2015 07:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:45 wei2coolman wrote:
This is definitely the most accurate description of Snake.
I'm still excited to see SHRC come into their own, since Namei joined. Namei's the most overrated ADC of all time. If Royal starts winning again, it's because they finally figured out Godlike is the best player they have and a thousand times better than Cola, not because they have Namei.
Namei's overrated when people call him the best ADC in the world, but he's definitely above average for Chinese ADC, which is fucking really good. If SHRC can work out a gameplan that revolves around Namei, they can still see major success in China.
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On March 16 2015 07:50 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way. I don't even watch a lot of LoL, but just from transferred experience & careful observation, Krystal is less important than you think. Flandre and Beast are their best players & biggest play makers, while Krystal and Baka are both capable of carrying provided Flandre and Beast create the room they need to do so. Their biggest weakness is actually Baka's champion pool. It's rather easy to ban out Snake's strategies, but few LPL teams do so because they want the practice. In fact, OMG suffers from the same problem. Cool and Loveling have incredibly limited champion pools in which they're comfortable on. Uzi and Cloud are able to play whatever but when your jungler doesn't know how to play carry junglers and your mid loses 50% effectiveness when not on Ahri/Leblanc/Lissandra, you're easy to ban out.
What the fck lolol. If you don't even watch the games why are you commentating? Your comments about OMG are so mindboggling wrong from even CASUAL observation let alone "careful observation" that it's hilariously pretentious.
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On March 16 2015 07:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:46 KissBlade wrote:On March 16 2015 07:45 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 07:39 KissBlade wrote:On March 16 2015 07:36 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 07:33 KissBlade wrote:
Eh I think I've been taking too much away from TSM this thread.
I really hope this tourney was a wakeup call for Korea and hopefully orgs will start treating their players better. yeah and you still haven't justified your use of the word "irony" to describe people calling TSM a world class team, as if "ironic" means "unfounded" or "silly" or something No the situation is ironic because we're calling a team world class for winning "World Championship" grand final against the worst team in China. I literally didn't realize you actually needed the explanation earlier. yeah that's not what irony means. reasoning that you consider faulty or silly isn't necessarily ironic. Err ... I suggest you look at what irony means then. okay i don't think i can convince you, but... oh well... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Definitionsi agree with the part of the first section, that says "though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted"... from "Henry Watson Fowler, in The King's English, says "any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same." Also, Eric Partridge, in Usage and Abusage, writes that "Irony consists in stating the contrary of what is meant."" but i don't see any of any of the definitions of irony present simply in people using reasoning that you don't agree with. your assertions of the invalidity of these results are only that, and we're already begging the question of what it means to be a world-class team, a term people will definitely have disputes over.
i'm just quoting this because i still want you to quote a definition of irony that works in your context; this bothers me.
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On March 16 2015 07:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way. At least Uzi was and still is a fantastic laner that pretty much always seems to get ahead in the early game. I don't think you watch LPL at all if you actually belive this, this is the level of ignorance that you'd see on something like ChinaTalk lol. And only a Chinese fanboy would actually believe that Snake is a well rounded team. They lost to WE last week and only won the 2nd game after coming back from a 5k gold deficit because, well you guessed it, Kryst4l ended up being their late game carry in a 40+ minute game. But hey, we got 11 teams that would stomp WE in 20 minutes and not ever make it close hurrrr
Who ever called Snake a well rounded team? lol. They've only just started experimenting with other shit.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way. At least Uzi was and still is a fantastic laner that pretty much always seems to get ahead in the early game. I don't think you watch LPL at all if you actually belive this, this is the level of ignorance that you'd see on something like ChinaTalk lol. And only a Chinese fanboy would actually believe that Snake is a well rounded team. They lost to WE last week and only won the 2nd game after coming back from a 5k gold deficit because, well you guessed it, Kryst4l ended up being their late game carry in a 40+ minute game. But hey, we got 11 teams that would stomp WE in 20 minutes and not ever make it close hurrrr
I didn't say Snake was a well-rounded team, but to say "Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding" is absurd when Beast and Baka have performed exceptionally well.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:52 wei2coolman wrote:
Namei's overrated when people call him the best ADC in the world, but he's definitely above average for Chinese ADC, which is fucking really good. If SHRC can work out a gameplan that revolves around Namei, they can still see major success in China.
Namei's like 4th best AD in China, playing something AD-centric could move them up slots, but they won't break into top 4 that way.
If they want to see success, it'll be leveraging their solos, not their bot lane.
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On March 16 2015 07:52 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:50 Azarkon wrote:On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way. I don't even watch a lot of LoL, but just from transferred experience & careful observation, Krystal is less important than you think. Flandre and Beast are their best players & biggest play makers, while Krystal and Baka are both capable of carrying provided Flandre and Beast create the room they need to do so. Their biggest weakness is actually Baka's champion pool. It's rather easy to ban out Snake's strategies, but few LPL teams do so because they want the practice. In fact, OMG suffers from the same problem. Cool and Loveling have incredibly limited champion pools in which they're comfortable on. Uzi and Cloud are able to play whatever but when your jungler doesn't know how to play carry junglers and your mid loses 50% effectiveness when not on Ahri/Leblanc/Lissandra, you're easy to ban out. What the fck lolol. If you don't even watch the games why are you commentating? Your comments about OMG are so mindboggling wrong from even CASUAL observation let alone "careful observation" that it's hilariously pretentious.
I don't watch a lot of LoL because I don't play it. I did take the time, however, to watch LPL this season just to see the macro effects of uprooting one region's players and putting them in another region, and those are my observations. You are free to disagree but stating that they are mindbogglingly wrong without given a shred of evidence is poor form.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On March 16 2015 07:54 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:52 wei2coolman wrote:
Namei's overrated when people call him the best ADC in the world, but he's definitely above average for Chinese ADC, which is fucking really good. If SHRC can work out a gameplan that revolves around Namei, they can still see major success in China. Namei's like 4th best AD in China, playing something AD-centric could move them up slots, but they won't break into top 4 that way.
That doesn't make him overrated since no one in China actually rates him as the best ADC. Only westerners do cause Doublelift made that stupid comment 2 years ago lol.
On March 16 2015 07:55 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:52 KissBlade wrote:On March 16 2015 07:50 Azarkon wrote:On March 16 2015 07:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Snake can only win when Kryst4l is hard carrying them and nothing else from them is outstanding. They're basically SHRC 2.0 except Uzi is still the better player. Don't think this style will work when teams outside of China don't team fight every 3 minutes to make the ADC shine and get farmed that way. I don't even watch a lot of LoL, but just from transferred experience & careful observation, Krystal is less important than you think. Flandre and Beast are their best players & biggest play makers, while Krystal and Baka are both capable of carrying provided Flandre and Beast create the room they need to do so. Their biggest weakness is actually Baka's champion pool. It's rather easy to ban out Snake's strategies, but few LPL teams do so because they want the practice. In fact, OMG suffers from the same problem. Cool and Loveling have incredibly limited champion pools in which they're comfortable on. Uzi and Cloud are able to play whatever but when your jungler doesn't know how to play carry junglers and your mid loses 50% effectiveness when not on Ahri/Leblanc/Lissandra, you're easy to ban out. What the fck lolol. If you don't even watch the games why are you commentating? Your comments about OMG are so mindboggling wrong from even CASUAL observation let alone "careful observation" that it's hilariously pretentious. I don't watch a lot of LoL because I don't play it. I did take the time, however, to watch LPL this season just to see the macro effects of uprooting one region's players and putting them in another region, and those are my observations. You are free to disagree but stating that they are mindbogglingly wrong without given a shred of evidence is poor form.
Calling Cool's champion pool limited is pretty ridiculous.
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On March 16 2015 07:54 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:52 wei2coolman wrote:
Namei's overrated when people call him the best ADC in the world, but he's definitely above average for Chinese ADC, which is fucking really good. If SHRC can work out a gameplan that revolves around Namei, they can still see major success in China. Namei's like 4th best AD in China, playing something AD-centric could move them up slots, but they won't break into top 4 that way.
Being AD Centric doesn't automatically limit your teams level to the ADC's.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I don't think the team should be formulating their strats around namei, insec and corn having the freedom to not play bitch duty for uzi is where uziless starhorn's found their strength. One of their biggest problems is that wel/HYY were both ridiculously problematic unable to put out sufficient damage, having odd builds and being very poor in lane which forced zero out of his comfort position as counter-engage/peel for the squad since peeling for them was useless. I think as long as namei can be stable then starhorn can move up the ranks.
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On March 16 2015 07:53 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2015 07:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 07:46 KissBlade wrote:On March 16 2015 07:45 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 07:39 KissBlade wrote:On March 16 2015 07:36 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On March 16 2015 07:33 KissBlade wrote:
Eh I think I've been taking too much away from TSM this thread.
I really hope this tourney was a wakeup call for Korea and hopefully orgs will start treating their players better. yeah and you still haven't justified your use of the word "irony" to describe people calling TSM a world class team, as if "ironic" means "unfounded" or "silly" or something No the situation is ironic because we're calling a team world class for winning "World Championship" grand final against the worst team in China. I literally didn't realize you actually needed the explanation earlier. yeah that's not what irony means. reasoning that you consider faulty or silly isn't necessarily ironic. Err ... I suggest you look at what irony means then. okay i don't think i can convince you, but... oh well... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Definitionsi agree with the part of the first section, that says "though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted"... from "Henry Watson Fowler, in The King's English, says "any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same." Also, Eric Partridge, in Usage and Abusage, writes that "Irony consists in stating the contrary of what is meant."" but i don't see any of any of the definitions of irony present simply in people using reasoning that you don't agree with. your assertions of the invalidity of these results are only that, and we're already begging the question of what it means to be a world-class team, a term people will definitely have disputes over. i'm just quoting this because i still want you to quote a definition of irony that works in your context; this bothers me.
Rather than clutter this thread up with this offtopic trollish vitrol, don't you think it's more prudent to just pm me about this?  Since I'm replying to you in this thread anyway, I suggest you check the Oxford dictionary version in that link and think about the situation I was presenting earlier ...
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On March 16 2015 07:56 Fusilero wrote:
I don't think the team should be formulating their strats around namei, insec and corn having the freedom to not play bitch duty for uzi is where uziless starhorn's found their strength. One of their biggest problems is that wel/HYY were both ridiculously problematic unable to put out sufficient damage, having odd builds and being very poor in lane which forced zero out of his comfort position as counter-engage/peel for the squad since peeling for them was useless. I think as long as namei can be stable then starhorn can move up the ranks.
yeah, but that's fucking boring as hell. why would you want a TSM like team moving up in ranks?
I WANT MY DOUBLE EDGED SWORD, NICHE COMP TEAMS IN TOP PLACE.
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Isn't Namei still sick or China talk were bullshiting like always?
Also with 5.5 Snake will be even better.
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EPT
